TiVo Community Forums Archives - Any IBM machine use same PowerPC chip as in TiVo?

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Any IBM machine use same PowerPC chip as in TiVo?
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Posted by: ayu168

Any IBM machine use same PowerPC chip as in TiVo?

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SVR-2000 2.0.1-001-010

Posted by: HotFix

I think that chip is made by motorla and there for banned to live the life of Mac.

Posted by: ayu168

Hmm, so which Mac model use it?

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SVR-2000 2.0.1-001-010

Posted by: Avian

all of them, they are all that slow. http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/tongue.gif

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Running TiVo Service 2.0.1 since 12.12.00

Posted by: dmprantz

The CPU in TiVo PVRs was designed by IBM to be used in embedded systems and appliances. It is not "fit" to use in a consumer computer.

Daniel M. Pomerantz

Posted by: MacOS

Hi,

The PPC is a RISC base chip and is designed by three companies. Apple, IBM, and Motorola or as our Mac friends effectually call it the AIM Group. Both IBM and Motorola manufacture the PPC and supply it to Apple for use in Mac's.

IBM uses the PPC in high-end products like servers. Motorola sells the PPC for imbedded systems, for example the automotive industry, among countless others.

The PPC has *many* flavors or versions like CPU's from Intel. The PPC that's used in Tivo is not the same used by Apple.

Hope this helps.

MacOS

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HDR31204 - Waiting for Warranty to Expire.

Posted by: dmprantz

hrmm....

Since we're talkin history and facts, here's a little more....

Some years ago, IBM "invented" the idea of a RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Code) based computer.

In the very early 1990s, IBM came out with a line of Unix computers called RS/6000 which ran on a type of chip called the POWER series. I forget the exact acronym, but it's something similar to "Performance Optimization With Enhanced RISC."

Soon, the POWER2 processing family arrived which was even "better."

Some where along the line, Apple decided that they were tired of using Motorola's 68000 series processors, and they wanted to use something newer, better, faster....so they got together with their partners, IBM and Motorola and started to work on something new. IBM was going to take the POWER2 implementation and try to place it's speed and power on a single chip to be used in a personal computer as opposed to a Unix server. While all of "AIM" was involved in the process, almost all of the research and engineering was performed by IBM (it was their technology) while Apple and Motorola mainly contributed money.

Thus the PowerPC was born. Based on IBM's POWER technology, but on a single, small chip. Eventually the PPC became so popular that IBM started to marked RS/6000 computers with PPC processors as well as the POWER2 and P2SP lines. I've gotten out of the RS/6000 circle, but I'm sure there's still some mix going on.

Anyway, PowerPC is a line to describe a technology and instruction set more than anything else. Motorola does sell some PPC chips, but they all come from IBM eventually.

Daniel M. Pomerantz

Posted by: ayu168

Does bin that compile on other PowerPC chip will work on TiVo?

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Posted by: JeffP

*cringe* Just some clarify some points from the embedded world:

Motorola makes more than "some" PowerPC chips - PowerPC owns the telecom market with their PowerQICC line (860/8260). I would be more inclined to say that IBM is the company with "some" market share (speaking for embedded, again).

Motorola & IBM share the license for PowerPC technology - they both fab their own chips, they don't buy them from each other.

The PowerPC instruction set is forward compatible - similar to how software written for the 386 will run on a 486 or any Pentium variant. However, code optimized for advanced processors cannot run on the older models.

Jeff

Posted by: gbuskirk

quote:
Originally posted by dmprantz:
Some years ago, IBM "invented" the idea of a RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Code) based computer.]

True; This was the IBM 801, in the early '70s I believe, predating the PowerPC by quite some time.

The PowerPC was an attempt by IBM and Motorola to break Intel's grip on the PC processor market, and terminate the legacy that dates back to the Intel 8008, and maybe the 4004. Continuing backward compatibility was limiting the x86 architecture and, it was felt, compromising the performance of PC's. The PowerPC was to run both Windows NT ("new technology") and AIX [I don't remember if OS/2 was ever developed for it]. The market didn't catch on, though, and soon NT support for it was dropped. The PowerPC survived in AIX workstations and Mac's, and was spun off as an embedded processor.

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The Other Glenn

Posted by: dmprantz

quote:
Originally posted by gbuskirk:
The PowerPC was to run both Windows NT ("new technology") and AIX [I don't remember if OS/2 was ever developed for it].

I've seen it. I'm pretty sure that means it was:) I don't think it ever made a general release, but OS/2 with a Micro kernel happenned:)

Daniel M. Pomerantz

Posted by: Nonesuch

I believe the original spirit of the question was:
"Is there any desktop computer on which a person could run Linux and have binary compatibility with TiVo binaries?"

Obviously MyWorld is not going to run on a Linux-On-Mac G4, but it should be possible to build a copy of 'less' with the TiVo libc and execute the binary on both the Macintosh and the TiVo hardware.

Many people end up cross-compiling binaries on a 80x86 platform, then moving them over to the TiVo for testing. Being able to test on a much, much faster desktop PowerPC platform speeds up the development cycle, especially for code where endian issues can bite you when cross-compiling.

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I am not a (Linux) hacker.

Posted by: Russ Arcuri

quote:
Originally posted by dmprantz:

...almost all of the research and engineering was performed by IBM (it was their technology) while Apple and Motorola mainly contributed money.

...

Anyway, PowerPC is a line to describe a technology and instruction set more than anything else. Motorola does sell some PPC chips, but they all come from IBM eventually.

Daniel M. Pomerantz

This isn't entirely true. Motorola had a big hand in the design process for the PowerPC chips, and Apple actually contributed a bit as well, since they had particular requirements pertaining to their product line.

Furthermore, the G4 chip was almost entirely designed by Motorola (based, of course, on earlier designs that IBM had worked on heavily). The 128-bit vector processing unit on the current G4 was all Motorola's doing, since IBM didn't want to go in that direction at all. IBM later decided it was a good thing and both IBM and Motorola fabricate the G4 chips now (Actually, the G4 comes in 3 flavors: the 7400, 7410, and 7450; I'm not sure whether IBM and Motorola have split the manufacturing along these lines or not).

FWIW, the 128 bit vector processor on the G4 is an amazing piece of hardware, and is the reason why lowly 350Mhz G4 chips are said to be "supercomputers," since code written to take advantage of them can execute at speeds greater than 1 Gigaflop.

Of course, the PowerPC chip in the TiVo is nowhere near that powerful, and lacks the vector processor present on the G4. But it sure makes TV fun... http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/smile.gif

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Russ Arcuri
Sony v2.0 Z16

[This message has been edited by Russ Arcuri (edited 05-03-2001).]