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Crypto chip...
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Posted by: FlyingMoose

Ok, well I'm new here. I've heard great things about TiVo and I'm going to get one for Xmas.

Now, I'm not sure if this is a forbidden topic (dealing with serial numbers and stuff), but I have a question about the BIOS chip with the serial number:

If the motherboard were to become fried, wouldn't it be easy just to stick the chip with the serial number into a new motherboard? (BIOS chips usually seem to be DIP packages, easy to solder/unsolder, and sometimes are even socketed for easy removal)...

Basically, I'm considering a lifetime sub, but I intend to do some upgrades, and if I happen to fry something, I don't want to have to pay for a sub again.

Posted by: ElectricLegs

These are soldered to the board so they won't be as easy as swapping a chip from 1 socket to another. If you get them hot while removing them they'll lose the data too. The modems can be repaired with 98% certainty so the odds that you'll ever need to swap serial#s is very slim. If you try to duplicate a lifetime sub to 2 Tivo's you'll lose that sub pretty quick. This kind of stuff is very simple for Tivo to spot.

Posted by: FlyingMoose

I wouldn't try to swipe sub data, you think I want them to go out of business? I was actually wondering if it would be better for tivo if I got the lifetime sub or the monthly (ie. would they be better off getting a big chunk of money now, or more money over time).

Posted by: ElectricLegs

I'd grab one 20hr with the 5yr Extended warranty from CircuitCity and a lifetime sub. They don't care if you open it as long as you bring the origional parts back. They'll tranfer the sub anytime you have a problem and after 2-3 years they'll end up giving you a better one when they can't give you the same one.

Posted by: jmayes

Electric Legs,

Have you noticed the clause in the lifetime contract that says the sub can not be transfered to another model number?

This is why I don't think a lot of people will not get their moneys worth on that deal.

What do you think?

Jmayes

Posted by: benjamin22

TiVo has actually blessed this type of sub transfer. When I contacted them to initiate my sub, I asked this very question to determine whether or not I should get a $10/month or $250 for life(and go back to buy the extended warranty). I opted for the monthly due to the fact that Best Buy's extended warranties suck... and I got the TiVo on a return from a gift my ex gave me, so I was stuck with where I got it (essentially it was free on the return)

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I used to be high on life, until I found out life was cut with idiots. Now, I just drink.

Posted by: Otto

They have stated that they will transfer the lifetime sub for extended warrenties from stores, so if the thing dies on you and the store replaces it, you're not out a lifetime sub price.

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All comments made in this post are my opinion and my opinion alone. Deal with it.
Otto, Zen TiVo Master - Moderator - AVS Tivo Forums - Tivo Underground, Tivo Coffee House
"The way of the portable computer user is as a stony path strewn with plugs and sockets, all the wrong size..." -- Terry Pratchett

Posted by: ADent

From some posts on the other hacker board it looks trivial to change the serial # if you know the commands.
http://www.digitalrecorder.tv/index.htm will transfer your sub for you or buy it from you.

BTW TiVo tracks the calls and their servers can fairly easily detect mutliple units with the same serial # calling in.

Posted by: jmayes

So what we have here is if you pop for the extended warranty with the store and THEY request the sub transfer, then tivo has to this point waved their clause in the contract. Will this stay this way for years to come? I think not. The Gotcha is plainly stated in the contract and they can drop the hammer any time they want. Right now they are being nice, but don't get used to it.

If serial number transfer hacking comes down to our level then I see some real insurance to get your moneys worth on the lifetime sub.

My 2c
Jmayes

Posted by: srs5694

Another point is that authorized repairs (usually swaps with refurbished units, actually), whether in or out of warranty, let you keep your lifetime subscription. For instance, if you don't buy a lifetime warranty, but the TiVo dies a year after you get it, you can pay $100 or whatever the going rate is at that time and get a replacement unit. The last I heard, there were no problems with such replacements even if the unit had been opened; but of course if you expand your hard disk, you should put in the original drive and take out any new or upgraded hard disks before sending the unit in. Likewise if you add a TiVoNET card or some such.

In sum, it's very unlikely that you'd ever need to buy a new lifetime subscription; the only case I can think of would be if the TiVo were totally destroyed in a fire or the like, or if it were stolen.

Posted by: FlyingMoose

But the point of the "Lifetime" sub is to be used for 4 years (as someone said when talking about the stock accounting report). It's not intended to be your lifetime. I think it as more of a 4-year subscription than "forever". (besides, if they did it by person instead of by unit, then you couldn't transfer it to someone else if you decided to sell the tivo).

[edited to add:]
My original point for starting this thread is: I think the "lifetime" sub should be like "4 years" or something, but linked to the person instead of the machine.

[This message has been edited by FlyingMoose (edited 12-09-2001).]

Posted by: embeem

Has anyone looked into the online account management tools?

There's a particularly interesting "Change Service Number" that would seem to transfer the subscription from one tivo to another, obviously this was intended for extended warranty repairs but could it be used to transfer the subscription otherwise?

If you fried the modem and you buy a new one and try to transfer the lifetime to the new unit using this will it actually work?

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Posted by: srs5694

quote:
Originally posted by FlyingMoose:
But the point of the "Lifetime" sub is to be used for 4 years (as someone said when talking about the stock accounting report). It's not intended to be your lifetime. I think it as more of a 4-year subscription than "forever". (besides, if they did it by person instead of by unit, then you couldn't transfer it to someone else if you decided to sell the tivo).

TiVo presumably used four years in their accounting report because they expect that's the average time a TiVo would last. If they'd meant a "lifetime" subscription to be four years, no more and no less, they'd have sold it as a four-year subscription. They didn't. They tied it to the lifetime of the unit, with some caveats and extensions, like the ability to transfer the service to a replacement unit if it's done via an official repair channel. This policy means that people who buy a lifetime subscription have every motive, and are well within their rights, to do everything they can to extend the life of their unit, such as performing repairs if the unit malfunctions. I have no doubt that some TiVos will last far more than four years in this way. I also have no doubt that TiVo's statisticians knew this, too.