TiVo Community Forums Archives - TiVO and the Motorola DCT 2000 digital cable box

TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like Google.

Pages:1

TiVO and the Motorola DCT 2000 digital cable box
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: sc00by

Hi guys,

I'm a total noobie here, as a matter of fact, I just ordered my first TiVO from e-Bay this morning. I have to point out that this community is what finally persuaded me to purchase a TiVO and I am truly psyched about getting it installed to tinker with...

Unfortunately, only moments after purchasing it, I happened to have a frightening question pop in my head and I need your input. My current setup is as follows;

TV (27" but I'm working on it)
DVD
VCR
and a Digital Cable box (Motorola DCT 2000) with Cox Cable.

My fear is how to hook the TiVO into the Digital Cable box. I'm hoping that the DCT 2000 has one of those infamous connections that works with the TiVO, but that's not my luck.

Has ANYONE had any luck getting a digital cable box like mine to work with their TiVO?

Sincerely

Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

------------------
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

Posted by: DrgnFyre

Shouldn't be a problem. I've got two tivos, both with DCT2000's attached to them.

basically, you control the box with the IR blaster that comes with your tivo. As for inputs, you can go s-video or RCA out from the Cable box to your tivo, then go s-video or rca out from your Tivo to your TV. (so, basically, the same setup you have right now, with the tivo in between cable box and tv).

And Welcome to the Tivolution! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Hope you enjoy your new TiVo - It will certainly change the way you watch TV.

[This message has been edited by DrgnFyre (edited 10-29-2001).]

Posted by: feldon23

Infamous connections?

That cable box has S-Video, RCAs, and Coax (cable TV) plugs. TiVo has all of those as well. Obviously for best quality, you will want to use the S-Video plug (with red and white RCA cables for audio).

The only thing negative experience you might have is Motorola's incompetence at making a unit that responds well to infrared signals. I'm sure you've noticed that even using the included remote sometimes drops digits.

You will probably want to build a small cardboard box to surround the infrared transmitter from the TiVo and the infrared receiver on the front of your cable box (Called an IR fort) to improve reception of channel changes.

Also, TiVo is designed to record shows and watch them WHEN you want, WITHOUT commercials. So it was not really designed for channel surfing (though there is nothing preventing you from doing so).

However, you should realize that the slow channel changing (you will want to set TiVo to its slowest, most meticulous IR blast setting to keep the percentage of successfully recorded shows as close to 100% as possible), combined with the slow tuning (and MPEG picture coming in with a trickling effect) of that DCT2000 will mean that channel surfing will be downright unbearable on TiVo.

I'd say you will experience a 6-8 second delay between picking a channel and actually seeing a picture.

Hopefully you'll break from the channel surfing habit as most of us have. By spending some time setting up recurring recordings (Season Passes) for the shows you like, wishlists for the actors and plot elements you like, and maybe tuning Suggestions (admittedly I turned them off), you will have as good a TiVo experience as the rest of us. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by feldon23 (edited 10-29-2001).]

Posted by: sc00by

Thanks guys, really. I appreciate it sincerely.

In regards to the way it changes you from channel surfing.. That scares me, because channel surfing is all I ever do. The other things now concerning me are 1) I'm not a Linux-friendly guy and 2) the TiVO I have only does 14 hours, and that's on what some call crappy quality. This means that IF I get into it, and IF we like it, we can't afford to upgrade it. (Buying a hard drive is one thing, paying someone $xxx to prep the drive is another).

How hard is it for a Windoze weenie to actually do the upgrade (strictly adding a B drive)???

Wayne

Posted by: BrettStah

sc00by, I'm in New Orleans too. I have two 30 hour Tivos, using the Motorola digital boxes, with hardly ever a problem. I use the worst quality setting (Basic) for everything other than sports.

Feel free to post any specific questions, or you can email me if you'd rather do that...

------------------
Brett

Even though I was their captive, the Indians allowed me quite a bit of freedom. I could walk freely, make my own meals, and even hurl large rocks at their heads. It was only later that I discovered that they were not Indians at all but only dirty-clothes hampers.

Posted by: BrettStah

quote:
Originally posted by sc00by:
How hard is it for a Windoze weenie to actually do the upgrade (strictly adding a B drive)???

Wayne

My understanding is that you can use a boot CD or boot floppy to do the upgrade, so that the OS of your PC is irrelevant. I haven't upgraded yet, though!

------------------
Brett

Even though I was their captive, the Indians allowed me quite a bit of freedom. I could walk freely, make my own meals, and even hurl large rocks at their heads. It was only later that I discovered that they were not Indians at all but only dirty-clothes hampers.

Posted by: sc00by

Brett,

Thanks for jumping in. I take it you're using Cox digital as well? It's very reassuring to know someone else has physical experience with the same boxes. Sounds like you and I will need to come together for a "Greater New Orleans TiVO upgrade event". http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

You mentioned that you use the basic quality for everything except sports. What is it exactly about sports that's different? I noticed their suggestions on the TiVO site, but don't know how or why that equates to real life quality. I'm not expecting DVD quality, but I certainly don't want "cheap VHS" quality either...

Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

------------------
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

Posted by: BrettStah

quote:
Originally posted by sc00by:
Brett,

Thanks for jumping in. I take it you're using Cox digital as well? It's very reassuring to know someone else has physical experience with the same boxes. Sounds like you and I will need to come together for a "Greater New Orleans TiVO upgrade event". http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

You mentioned that you use the basic quality for everything except sports. What is it exactly about sports that's different? I noticed their suggestions on the TiVO site, but don't know how or why that equates to real life quality. I'm not expecting DVD quality, but I certainly don't want "cheap VHS" quality either...

Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

Yes, Cox digital cable, most likely the same model of boxes.

Sports (football, at least, which is pretty much the only sport I record), tends to be very fast-moving at times, which is the type of recording you'd most notice artifacts and blockiness with. At the higher levels (High and Best), I almost never see any of this while watching football. I will see some at Medium occasionally, and often at Basic. For all other shows, even ones with some action, I almost always use Basic, and notice very few problems with it. Sometimes on scene transitions you'll see a couple of artifacts, or a show with rippling water, but nothing major for any long length of time. The cool thing is that it is apparently easy to add an additional drive, and even replace the current drive, if you decide Basic isn't good enough for you.

Feel free to let me know if you want to stop by my house to check out what it looks like. I'll even record some different shows at different quality levels for you...

------------------
Brett

Even though I was their captive, the Indians allowed me quite a bit of freedom. I could walk freely, make my own meals, and even hurl large rocks at their heads. It was only later that I discovered that they were not Indians at all but only dirty-clothes hampers.

Posted by: DJRobX

quote:
I'm not expecting DVD quality, but I certainly don't want "cheap VHS" quality either...

My experience is that even in Basic quality, the TiVo tends to look much better than VHS.

The type of "quality loss" is just different. VHS tends to suffer from shaky pictures and muted sound. TiVo conserves space by doing more digital video compression. Video compression works by storing changes in the picture. So, a talk show or game show with little camera movement tends to compress well. A very active sporting event has constant scene changes and fast motion, so it requires more space to really look good. TiVo always records in the same sound quality.

As the others have said, the Motorola DCT2000 is just a terrible cable box, especially if you like to channel surf. You've probably already noticed that surfing - even without TiVo - is slow when using the digital channels. Unfortunately because the box is so slow, you have to set TiVo to send the digits to the box slowly.

The good news is that I can almost guarantee that you'll break yourself of the channel surfing habit. Instead you'll be surfing the "good" stuff TiVo has recorded for you. You won't have the need to surf because you have so much stuff you actually want to see instead.

Do the drive upgrade! It's very, very easy to add an additional drive. It's absolutely worth it, especially if you have a 14 hour system.

Posted by: sc00by

quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah:
Feel free to let me know if you want to stop by my house to check out what it looks like. I'll even record some different shows at different quality levels for you...

Thanks very much for the offer. I have to actually recieve my TiVO first though, then I guess I'll find out by default what the different recording levels look like. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

If what I keep hearing about how great TiVO is, I'll bet I'll be ordering an 80 Gb drive sometime around next Monday. (Having only received the TiVO on Friday or Saturday).

Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

Posted by: srs5694

quote:
Originally posted by sc00by:
1) I'm not a Linux-friendly guy and 2) the TiVO I have only does 14 hours, and that's on what some call crappy quality. This means that IF I get into it, and IF we like it, we can't afford to upgrade it. (Buying a hard drive is one thing, paying someone $xxx to prep the drive is another).

How hard is it for a Windoze weenie to actually do the upgrade (strictly adding a B drive)???

I am a Linux person, so my judgment may be biased, but I just upgraded my new (used) 14-hour unit and found the process to be extremely painless. I suggest you check Hinsdale's TiVo upgrade HOWTO, if you haven't already, to learn what's involved. In brief, the steps are:

1) Download some software on a CD image or floppy images, and burn to CD-R or write to floppy, as necessary.
2) Open the TiVo, which requires special tools (a Torx screwdriver, which isn't extremely common in the average person's tool box but is easy to find at hardware stores).
3) Remove the hard disk from TiVo and install it in the PC.
4) Boot the software created in step #1.
5) Use software to back up the TiVo disk. (This takes 1-4 typed commands, depending upon what you count, but it takes a few minutes to complete.)
6) Shut down, remove TiVo disk, and install new upgrade disk in the PC.
7) Boot the software again.
8) "Bless" the new disk. (This is a 1-command operation that completes in a second or so.)
9) Return original disk to TiVo.
10) Add new disk to TiVo. (This may involve buying and installing a special mounting bracket, or you can "rough it" with Velcro or the like.)
11) Boot TiVo and enjoy new space.

There are assorted variants possible, such as if you want to replace, rather than add to, your existing drive; or you could skip the backup steps, although that's not really advisable. This outline also omits a lot of details. None of this requires arcane Linux knowledge. There are a couple of Linux-specific points that could conceivably trip you up, like identifying your current DOS/Windows partition for storing the backup. If something doesn't seem to be as described, stop, take notes (error messages or anything else that doesn't match what's described), and post the details to the underground forum, and somebody will help. If it goes smoothly, as it probably will, it'll take 1-3 hours of your time, including reading Hinsdale's instructions a couple of times so you know what to expect. IMHO, it's more important that you be familiar with handling hard disk upgrades than that you be familiar with Linux to complete this task.

quote:
I'm not expecting DVD quality, but I certainly don't want "cheap VHS" quality either...

TiVo quality degrades differently than does VHS quality. TiVo in Basic mode can produce a very sharp picture compared to VHS, even in SP mode. TiVo's Basic mode degrades by producing digital artifacts like a blocky appearance to the picture. These tend to occur when there's fast action or when the image fades from one scene to another. You see the same sort of degradation on higher-quality TiVo modes, or on DVDs for that matter, but you need faster motion to see it. For instance, I TiVoed _The Blair Witch Project_ recently. That's got a lot of jerky hand-held camera work, and I saw this sort of digital artifacting even on Best quality (but with a new "save disk space" option enabled; it might not have been present if that feature had been disabled). In Best quality, I normally only notice a bare hint of it once or so in any given hour or two of programming, even in shows with a good deal of action. At Basic quality, the artifacts are obvious even on talk shows (mostly when fading to ads or the like).

Posted by: sc00by

quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah:
Feel free to let me know if you want to stop by my house to check out what it looks like. I'll even record some different shows at different quality levels for you...

This might sound like a really dumb question...

How difficult is it to dump TiVO recorded stuff onto video tape should you decide to keep it?

Wayne

Posted by: BrettStah

If you have one of the outputs of the Tivo going into a VCR, then basically anything coming out of the Tivo can be recorded. So you can insert a tape, press record on the VCR, and start playing a show on the Tivo. An oft-requested feature is some sort of batch-play that would be useful for playing back more than one recording automatically, for easier archiving to tape.

There is a separate Save to VCR feature, which basically attempts to prevent you from accidentally messing up the process by limiting what remote control functions are available during playback (and also gives you a nice title screen for the first 10 seconds or so, to make it easier to identify things on tape).

------------------
Brett

Even though I was their captive, the Indians allowed me quite a bit of freedom. I could walk freely, make my own meals, and even hurl large rocks at their heads. It was only later that I discovered that they were not Indians at all but only dirty-clothes hampers.

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by sc00by:
In regards to the way it changes you from channel surfing.. That scares me, because channel surfing is all I ever do.

You won't believe it now but you will stop channel surfing.

I'm like you, that's all I used to do. Give it about 2 weeks then come back and read this thread.

Welcome, enjoy, and go ahead a budget for the hard drive. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
"Always in motion is the future." -Yoda

Posted by: sc00by

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc:
Welcome, enjoy, and go ahead a budget for the hard drive. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I sincerely appreciate all the help, but you guys sure do know how to make a noobie feel like his latest and greatest toy is completely useless. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

Posted by: sc00by

So, if I go through and upgrade the drive by adding another B drive (80 - 100Gb), will it be destroyed the next time TiVO pushes out an upgrade? I realize that ALL of this is hacking hardware, and that almost negates any feeling of stablility, but I've read little besides upgrades (particularly 2.5) which break most of the hacks. Not something I'd care to go through regularly.

Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

[This message has been edited by sc00by (edited 10-29-2001).]

Posted by: where1

Wayne,
What's channel surfing? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Seriously, when you turn on the TV, you will go to Now Playing, and pick something you really want to see. And commercials, well you won't be tempted to surf, just FFF.
Enjoy...

------------------
Lest we forget 9/11/01
My System
Paul

Posted by: feldon23

No software upgrade from 1.3 to 2.0.1 to 2.5 to 2.5.1 has rendered an upgraded TiVo useless or even crippled in any way (a bit of space was reserved for TiVo commercials).

TiVo has been extremely open-minded towards the hacker community, realizing just how many sales can be sent their way just by not raining on our parade (well, I haven't hacked mine yet).

Posted by: Dajad

Scooby ... do some quick searches of the help archives and general chat archives ... there are dozens of old threads discussing the DCT-2000 foibles.

I've had one for a year and a half and it really bites. But, I rarely channel surf so most of the problems are gone.

If you build the fort suggested above then you can't order PPV events and use the other DCT-2000 features without removing the fort.

I've never built the fort because it wouldn't work for me.

Most cable companies have hybrid analogue/digital channels. When I surf, I switch over to my TV's or VCR's receiver and surf through the analogue stations (1 to 50 on my set). Surfing through TiVo on the Digital Channels through this box is hell.

The only reliable channel changing I've ever gotten were using the slowest of the slow IR code settings. And even now 1 in 40 or so channel changes doesn't work. Just last Wednesday I missed my favorite show (West Wing) because of the darn DCT-2000's ineptitude.

But, again, if you are like 95% of other TiVo users, once you've had it for a couple weeks you won't be surfing much. It's hard to believe but its true.

Again, do some searches through the archives and read-up on it.

Good luck.

...Dale

Posted by: sc00by

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23:
No software upgrade from 1.3 to 2.0.1 to 2.5 to 2.5.1 has rendered an upgraded TiVo useless or even crippled in any way (a bit of space was reserved for TiVo commercials).

Thanks, that's a relief. I guess it's the differences between the words hacked and upgraded. I am not (currently) interested in "hacking" my soon-to-arrive TiVO, but I am sincerely interested in the idea of using it to it's fullest extent where capacity is concerned.

I'm very much trying to keep an open mind here about whether or not I'll like my Tivo, because I hate getting my hopes up too high (kind of like the letdown after seeing an insanely hyped but ultimately bad movie), but hope you're right. I just don't see how I am ever to avoid upgrading after the first week (considering 14 hours would probably be killed off the first day)

In regards to channel surfing, I might also be mis-stating myself. What my wife and I do is "guide surf", and our particular tastes in what to watch is incredibly varied, so I'm a bit worried that the Tivo won't be able to lock down on things we like, or that it'll be a hinderance to watching the wide variety of things we do like watching.

For example, as I understand it, the Tivo basically gauges your watching habits, then offers you things it thinks you want to see. What if there's something it doesn't know about, on a channel that you might or might not normally watch? Will you ever see that or a choice to watch it?

------------------
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

[This message has been edited by sc00by (edited 10-30-2001).]

Posted by: BrettStah

You are referring to the oft-misunderstood Tivo Suggestions feature.

It does NOT control what channels you receive or see. Instead, your Tivo will compile a list of upcoming shows that it thinks you may like. Optionally, you can have Tivo record some of these suggestions. Note that they never record in place of an explicitly chosen recording, or use disk space that is needed for explicitly recorded shows.

With 14 hours, you will probably not have room for very many suggestions. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

So, to make it clear, Tivo Suggestions don't affect the Live TV Guide at all. You can filter the Live TV guide if you'd like (once you get the software update), based on your Favorites channels that you specify, or by different categories like Movies, Sports, etc.

------------------
Brett

Even though I was their captive, the Indians allowed me quite a bit of freedom. I could walk freely, make my own meals, and even hurl large rocks at their heads. It was only later that I discovered that they were not Indians at all but only dirty-clothes hampers.


[This message has been edited by BrettStah (edited 10-30-2001).]

Posted by: BrettStah

Also, to add to my previous post:

When you choose your provider (satellite, cable, etc.) for your channels during guided setup, Tivo downloads all of the guide information for all of the channels.

You can then go in to a screen called "Channels You Receive" and unselect the channels that you just never, ever, want to see or record from. (For instance, foreign-language channels for languages you don't understand, home-shopping channels, public access channels, premium channels you don't subscribe to, etc.)

Later on, you can go through these channels that you have indicated that you receive and set up a Favorites list, which you can use as a simple filter in the Live TV guide, as well as other places, to limit what channels are displayed for a particular instance.

------------------
Brett

Even though I was their captive, the Indians allowed me quite a bit of freedom. I could walk freely, make my own meals, and even hurl large rocks at their heads. It was only later that I discovered that they were not Indians at all but only dirty-clothes hampers.

Posted by: bobk

To those in this thread that have 2 DCT-2000 boxes (with or without 2 Tivos), I'm curious as to what your reasons were for getting the second box.

I have Comcast Digital Cable in NJ. I would like to watch one digital channel while recording another with Tivo (Philips HDR212, soon to upgrade). After reviewing my options, I cannot find a way to do it without getting digital boxes, since only the digital box can decode the digital signal.

A slightly different question would be "If you were limited to one digital cable box, what the most functionality you could have if you were creating enough with the wiring, given the equipment below?". I have looked at Richard Parker's Tivo Wiring Guide, but it does not address digital channels specifically.

Digital Cable
DCT-2000
Sony 36XBR400
Pioneer DVD Player
Panasonic Hi-Fi VCR
Tivo Philips HDR212 w/2.5.1

Thanks,
Bob

Posted by: feldon23

Your best bet is to always record as much programming as possible onto the TiVo so you will never need to channel surf.

Posted by: mlomker

quote:
Originally posted by sc00by:
I just don't see how I am ever to avoid upgrading after the first week (considering 14 hours would probably be killed off the first day)

In regards to channel surfing, I might also be mis-stating myself. What my wife and I do is "guide surf", and our particular tastes in what to watch is incredibly varied, so I'm a bit worried that the Tivo won't be able to lock down on things we like,

I find your comments quite odd. A VCR can't possibly record 14 hours per day so why would you Tivo that much? Would you even have that much time to watch that much recorded stuff every day? There are practical limits to how much time you can sit in front of the TV. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

You get a TV guide built into the Tivo and it is much easier to use than the digital one that AT&T provides me. That's how I find what I want to watch...no need to channel surf when you can just read through all of the descriptions instead.

You're not required to use the suggestions feature. I have mine shut off...I only want to record the shows that I tell it to. The setup is very customizable.

Posted by: sc00by

quote:
Originally posted by mlomker:
I find your comments quite odd. A VCR can't possibly record 14 hours per day so why would you Tivo that much? Would you even have that much time to watch that much recorded stuff every day? There are practical limits to how much time you can sit in front of the TV. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Hmmm. Perhaps I've even adapted to be strange now, because our 14 hours (8 hours considering quality is unacceptably poor on basic for me) is being used up rather steadily and daily between ER (2 episodes daily), B5, and a couple of other dailies. Take into account that

I might not get to watch every episode recorded and would like to hold onto it for 3-4 days and
I might occassionally like to actually RECORD a movie but might not get to tossing it onto tape for 3-4 days

and you can see why 14 hours is simply unacceptable for anyone who watches TV more than casually.

I just bought a 46 hour (40GB) A drive last week because I didn't feel like messing with the procedure for building an A drive. Hopefully I'll have the opportunity to install it tonight, but I'm already planning on buying a 100GB drive to use as a B drive. This would allow me to set the default to hold onto everything I would want to watch for 7 days, as well as not have to deal with "this program will not fit without deleting show x earlier than planned"...

quote:
You get a TV guide built into the Tivo and it is much easier to use than the digital one that AT&T provides me. That's how I find what I want to watch...no need to channel surf when you can just read through all of the descriptions instead.

Love the guide.

quote:

You're not required to use the suggestions feature. I have mine shut off...I only want to record the shows that I tell it to. The setup is very customizable.

I would agree, but as I eluded to in another thread, since I've gotten my Tivo, my habits have started to change. I want the expanded space so that TiVo can use it to auto fill with it's suggestions (so far it's at 95% on good suggestions side) in case I don't want to watch an episode of something at that exact moment OR I can just grab more of what I want to watch when looking at the guides.

------------------
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org

Philips TiVo 112 14 hour
2.5.1-01-1-000 and damned glad to be here.