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TITLES OF MEMBERS?
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Posted by: BRENT

I just read a post of an advanced member that did not know how to disconnect the TiVo 40-connector cable. I don't think the title should be granted on number of posts. Some ( most ) of you are well above genius. Also, there should be waiting period for someone to post questions on this forum. I did 2 upgrades and had minor jumper problems and did not post anything on this forum until I was done. Most of the new questions are answered in the FAQ and by reading other posts in the forum. I think the titles should be granted by certain founders at their discretion. Maybe, develope new titles for those that are technically able and those that are just able.

Posted by: sonnik

quote:
Originally posted by BRENT:
I don't think the title should be granted on number of posts. Some ( most ) of you are well above genius...

I'm sure your opinion may be shared by some, but I personally have to disagree. There are a few things to keep in mind.

There are other facets of AVSForum. The people who have many posts under their belt, are often Audio/Video afficianadoes who have a TiVo as just another component under their home entertainment system. Their post-counts could have easily climbed in the other forums also.

For the people behind AVSForum, it wouldn't be feasible to maintain seperate accounts for each separate forum.

Like you said, many of the people here are quite intelligent, and I think most of them are able to easily identify people that are knowledgeable, even if they are a new member.

I think those that have high counts of posts should be recognized, because I'm sure at least even in some minor way, they've most likely helped someone, somewhere.

I don't think a "waiting period" before posting would be beneficial. Many people, like you and I, do read FAQs before posting in here. Often these are legitimate questions, and those people are entitled to using this as a medium for a prompt reply, possibly to iron things out before sending a perfectly good TiVo back to the store or cancelling TiVo's service without reason.

I'm fairly new myself, and I've recognized a few that frequent this forum who have high Post counts (tom_h, otto, hth, Dr. Zed, [not to exclude anyone]) are often quite helpful to those with questions.

I think a lot of people also enjoy striving to reach the new titles. Nothing against your idea of operation, I just think that most people would think "change is bad" for this situation.

Posted by: BRENT

Recently Dylan and Belboz had a post of repitious questions that were answered by the the FAQ. Yes, most the helpful members have a high count of replies. They should be "SPECIAL or ADVANCED", they are! I guess it could be misleading for someone initially looking in.

Posted by: sonnik

Dylan and Belboz were also getting high counts of personal E-mail also (direct to them) for questions easily answered in the FAQ. I think it was Dylan that asked that people stop doing so, and I don't blame him.

You're absolutely right that people don't look for existing answers before asking questions. But I sure don't know a solution for that.

Maybe if a FAQ owner can modify the FAQ or Belboz can modify the Boot Disk to emphasize existing resources even more than they already do, I'm sure that would help for all.

Posted by: DocNO

quote:
Originally posted by sonnik:
Maybe if a FAQ owner can modify the FAQ or Belboz can modify the Boot Disk to emphasize existing resources even more than they already do, I'm sure that would help for all.

You can try but people will still be lazy http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/frown.gif

Sometimes you just have to be abrupt with folks - "It's in the FAQ, please *read* it"....

Now if the FAQ maintainer gets lots of obvious questions about something covered in the FAQ from different folks, then maybe that section of the FAQ needs to be re-written http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/smile.gif

Posted by: garylapointe

Sometimes people post without even reading the question.

I posted a question (how to edit the season passes/todo list via the shell), I stated the two answers I knew I would get: "wait for the new version", and a workaround (that wouldn't really work in this case). I only got two replies (both stating the above two choices). I'm still looking for a solution to this!

See http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/Forum6/HTML/001761.html
It's actually funny to read what the people wrote (but you've got the read the question or you don't see the irony). One respondent was a senior member.

I state that I'm specifically looking for a way to do this editing via the shell and someone referred me to the help forum (when I think shell, I think underground forum).

Here's my point: One of the guys even posted an apology for not reading. This gets them two posts under their belt, correct? My thread gets longer so then others don't read it. Still no solution...

Suggestion: What if the poster of a topic had to go back (if they defined the topic as a question and not as a discussion) and mark the response as being helpful or not. If it solved the problem it gets a few more points. If it was a "I have the same problem too", it gets no points. It you've posted several questions you can't post more until you go back and do a few of these evaluations.

It's just a thought, it didn't really matter to me so much until I saw this thread and thought I'd post an option.

Gary

Posted by: mbm

Gary,

I imagine the real reason you haven't received a solution is because no one has figured it out yet; not because your thread is too long. At least it didn't appear particularly long to me.

Given that the SP issue is fixed in the new version (without a release date http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/wink.gif), I'm not sure how much effort anyone is putting into it. Most people performing these hacks are scratching their own personal itches. It seems like you found yours.

In regard to post counts, I doubt you were actually complaining that the member bothered to apologize for not reading your post closely enough. He took the time to type in a reply (that he mistakenly thought was helpful) and an apology. I seriously doubt he's doing that just for his own count benefit. Otherwise most posts around here would be one or two words long.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

General thread response (I should have made this a separate response to pad my stats http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/smile.gif:

I don't mind when new posters ask a question when they get confused. It's the ones who obviously haven't read the faq or even scanned the messages here that irk me. Even then I often give them help and not just a "read the faq" response.

The members here who contribute again and again are the ones with the huge post counts. They didn't get there by just hanging around, and without exception they help others on this board. They helped me and made this forum an excellent source for information on numerous topics. Now I'm trying to reciprocate and help others whenever I can.

A knowledge test or "in crowd" anointment would be counterproductive. Those who contributed and made this place what it is earned the titles and occasionally an ode from Jim. http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/smile.gif

------------------
Cheers, Mike

Posted by: garylapointe

This was not a post to complain about my experience as much to contribute to the topic of the member titles. I gave some extra specific about my experience just in case someone reading this board knew the answer! http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/smile.gif

If any members felt I was picking on them in an attempt to illustrate this I'm sorry. I was trying to add to this discussion with some information on a specific post I was very familiar with. I posted a question and got 6 follow ups: 2 responses that didn't seem to read the question, one making fun of a respondent, one apology from a respondent (which was very nice, thank you) and two from me.

I guess I babbled a little longer than usual. As many people point out "read the faq" I guess I'm saying "read the question".

See I've gone off on a tangent again.

Here's the real topic: Scoring points for posting. I don't have a solution, just comments. People scoring for posts that never read the question seems a little odd to me. Or people that just say "read the faq" is kind of odd to score for this.

Unless I win prizes that I'm not aware of. I assume if I write a clear answer that answers the questions or some response that points to a resource (via url) somewhere else (and shows I read the question) that the poster are going to give my answer some consideration regardless of if it says "new member" or "TiVo god". That's why I post. I don't care so much as what my title is, but I wanted to contribute to the thread.

Regardless of how much passion I actually have in regards to the topic of points (which honestly isn't much), I still think my "How did this help you with your question?" rating system has some merit.

Thanks,
Gary

Posted by: sonnik

I think people shouldn't place a whole lot of emphasis on Post Counts. If it helps someone recognize as someone who's been around and "seasoned" to the forum, that's great.

I think most people will not discard someone's answer merely because of a post count. In my opinion, if I need help, I welcome all answers. I think that someone I'm trying to provide that help to would think the same way.

I don't think any of these forums are about rank and status, they're about discussion...

Posted by: kcl

This penchant for wanting someone else to solve your problem is not a new one. I'm really going to date myself here, but back in the early nineteen(mumble, mumble)'s, when we still used punched cards, I was required to put time in at the Univ of Calif, Davis as a "consulting programmer" for students. It was surprising how often one of them would put their cards in the student card reader, take two steps over the the printer, wait for the printout, look at the incorrect result, take four steps over to my desk, put everything on the desk and declare: "It doesn't work. What's wrong?"

It really is true: The more things change, the more they stay the same.

------------------
Ken

Posted by: Dr. Zed

quote:
Originally posted by garylapointe:
Here's my point: One of the guys even posted an apology for not reading. This gets them two posts under their belt, correct? My thread gets longer so then others don't read it. Still no solution...

Actually, I'm fairly certain that you only get one point per thread. This prevents endless bickering about a single topic from getting as much "credit" as actually contributing to multiple threads.

quote:
Suggestion: What if the poster of a topic had to go back (if they defined the topic as a question and not as a discussion) and mark the response as being helpful or not. If it solved the problem it gets a few more points. If it was a "I have the same problem too", it gets no points. It you've posted several questions you can't post more until you go back and do a few of these evaluations.

Rating systems tend to turn things into a popularity contest, and that's not always a good thing.

And, as has been stated, you should rate every post on it's content, not it's author's post count. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/biggrin.gif

------------------
"It's like living in the future."

[This message has been edited by an infinite number of monkeys (edited 10-24-2000).]

Posted by: soundguy

>>I just read a post of an advanced member that did not know how to disconnect the TiVo 40-connector cable.

I really don't see your point. My immediate family boasts a few PHDs and 3 times as many Masters degrees, yet none of them can swap a new hard drive into their PC, change the oil in their car, or even hook up their own Tivo. Titles have no meaning. They're just another way to kill time while you're waiting to die. http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/smile.gif

------------------
Patrick Callahan
Check out www.themothership.net for links to the latest PTV technologies!

Posted by: Otto

Face facts folks:

There is *no* way to determine a person's value in terms of experience other than reading what that person has written. Post counts, karma, etc, all these don't work. In fact, no system can work 100%. Accept it. Move on.

I posted a question (how to edit the season passes/todo list via the shell), I stated the two answers I knew I would get: "wait for the new version", and a workaround (that wouldn't really work in this case). I only got two replies (both stating the above two choices). I'm still looking for a solution to this!

Perhaps that's because you think that it's an easy answer, when it is not. MFS is hideously complicated, and it's not all worked out. And probably nobody is working on this particular facet, because when 2.0 comes out, the whole effort is suddenly useless to an extent. If you want to figure it out yourself, do so, but don't expect people to put effort in for you for free for no good reason. I realize you may not understand how big of a job it is to do what you ask, but it is. A good idea, in the future, would be to consider that anything new that hasn't been done before will take well over 1000 man-hours of effort to figure it out. That should help you to cope with the fact that nobody is telling you how to do something.

Nearly everything we know how to do is in the FAQ. More complicated hacks that have no easy interface are not in the FAQ for a reason, that being that if you don't understand exactly what the hack does on a lower level, you shouldn't do it. "But I want to!" Then wait until someone works out a nice interface for it. If that happens at all. Or, look at it, learn from it, understand it, try it, figure out something else because of it, post the new info. If you're going to hack, then hack already. But quit whining. It's annoying, unproductive, and useless. http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/biggrin.gif

------------------
Otto, Supreme TiVoWarrior - Moderator - AVS Forum - Tivo Underground
"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will!" -- Yoda

[This message has been edited by Otto (edited 10-30-2000).]

Posted by: mcbrowne

Er... maybe I'm new, so my opinion doesn't count, but I always kinda thought that the post count titles were intended as a joke anyway.

Perhaps this should be made more explicit by making the title for accounts with no posts "Super Ultra Special AVS Member With Added Priviledges", which will eventually become "New Member" after a few thousand posts?

[This message has been edited by mcbrowne (edited 10-30-2000).]

Posted by: tmtech

I have nothing to add... Just seemed like a good place to post to get a point!

Posted by: Robbie

Me too...

Otherwise I was planning on going to Junior College nights so I can get a higher title here. http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/wink.gif

Posted by: Agrajag

For what it's worth, all people are different. I'm new. I've fairly competent. I read the FAQ and it simply didn't read as clearly as it could for me, and I'm sure for many others. After I finished, I still had questions, including clarifications of what's in the FAQ, and let's be honest here. It sounds better to hear support for items in an FAQ from a few sources before making the move. Things change, often faster than FAQ's can.

Posted by: Samsara

quote:
Originally posted by mcbrowne:
Er... maybe I'm new, so my opinion doesn't count, but I always kinda thought that the post count titles were intended as a joke anyway.

I just found a forum today that mines the comic potential a little. The ranks are Petty Human, Lowly Human, DemiGod, God. I definitely think that's the way to go...purely for comic effect I mean.

God (ascended from TMHRRFHRMoTCoT) Samsara

Posted by: Jim West

Life has no meaning, or is it titles? In considering the weight to give to a post I usually consider three things. First, the quality (or apparent quality) of the post. Second, how long the person has participated in the forum. Third, the number of posts a person has made. I do not pay any attention to the titles.

The First item is the most important and is self-explanatory.

The second item tells me the person has been around long enough to know something about the history and growth of Tivo and the Forum and might have learned something along the way.

The third tells me the person has had enough interest to participate actively in the forum.

When someone like JAB says something, I listen, because he satisfies all three criteria. Unfortunately, I only satisfy the second and third.

Jim West, Supreme High Commander Emeritus (Courtesy of Samsara)

Posted by: BRENT

The comic approach would be more fun. What's the point of having a title tied to post counts and have the post counts displayed as well? Redundancy? Why have the date a person registered and label them "new member" at the same time? Redundancy? The point is that this forum is very technical. The titles should be more difficult to obtain than just post counts. How advanced is someone with over 1300 posts that can't figure out how to remove a 40-connector cable? How about someone that that is a "special member" that suggests duct tape is ok in the TiVo box? Are they advanced in qwerty and hitting enter? Someone like TiVolutionary should be a "special member"! Of course, there are many others that appear to be well versed in the technicalities of programming. It appears to me that someone looking in for quick resolutions could be mislead by some of the titles and possibly do damage to the equipment they have invested in and wish to use. I know that the software used for the forum is also a controlling factor, however, someone made the decisions on titles.

Posted by: soundguy

>>It appears to me that someone looking in for quick resolutions could be mislead by some of the titles and possibly do damage to the equipment they have invested in and wish to use.

Anyone looking for help on the internet needs to remember that:

90% of EVERYTHING is CRAP

Free advice is worth every penny

------------------
Patrick Callahan
Check out www.themothership.net for links to the latest PTV technologies!

Posted by: cc

Yes, but 47% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I think I just created an infinite crap loop.

Posted by: JAB

BRENT:

Well, last I checked, programming skills and the ability to swap hard disks aren't prerequisites for knowing a lot about TiVo and contributing meaningfully to The TiVo Community. Personally, despite the fact that I swapped drives between TiVos before it was cool and that I used to write software for a living, I think the whole debate is absurd. AVSForum isn't out to certify people as experts. It's trying to reward, in some small fashion, those people who spend significant time here.

What if I thought titles should be assigned based on one's command of the English language? Perhaps they should be assigned based on a quiz of how various TiVo features work. Both of those are valid criteria for measuring ones ability to contribute to this board, and neither is particularly appropriate.

The point is that no criteria are universally applicable even in this tiny slice of the universe. The key is that people should offer authoritative advice only when they can speak with authority, which means that who should speak where varies with where you are. It also explains why I post so seldom in The Underground. http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/wink.gif

/jab

JAB places a hand across his brow and squints into the sun to catch a glimpse of The God Ascended From (TGAF) TMHRRFHRMoTCoT Samsara as he rises skyward. JAB exchanges glances with Supreme High Commander Emeritus West and shakes his head. Rolling his eyes, JAB says, "Well, here we go again."

[This message has been edited by JAB (edited 11-03-2000).]

Posted by: FlashingTwelve

quote:
Originally posted by mcbrowne:
Er... maybe I'm new, so my opinion doesn't count, but I always kinda thought that the post count titles were intended as a joke anyway.

I wish UBB had an option to hide our 'number of posts' and 'member level'. Frankly, I don't want people knowing I've made a dunderhead of myself 900 times. And considering I must have taken at least 2 mins per post, I could have made a few thousand dollars if I invested that time more wisely. That's rather embarrassing http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/wink.gif

Posted by: Otto

Here's the final word, because this is stupid, offtopic, starting to get a bit inflammatory, and being closed now.

If you seriously care what your "title" is, you need to get a life, or at least a signifcant other. If newbies find this confusing, perhaps it should be removed. Personally, I didn't even notice them until I had already made 50+ posts.

So get a grip people, and get back to content. It's the only thing that matters anyway.

(best thing about being a mod is that you can always have the final word http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/biggrin.gif )

------------------
Otto, Supreme TiVoWarrior - Moderator - AVS Forum - Tivo Underground
"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will!" -- Yoda

[This message has been edited by Otto (edited 11-03-2000).]