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Yes - once 2-tuner standalone is available
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Posted by: ENS

I think lots of people will want the new Series2 as soon as the 2-tuner stand-alone models are released -- which is planned at some point as part of the Series2.

The three worthwhile upgrades that will be available/part of the Series2 are: (1) 200+ mhz processor; (2) 32 mb Ram, instead of 16 on the standalones; and (3) 2-tuner standalones (date this third feature will become available is unknown).

There are lots of other potential features on the Series2, but I think the above three features alone will get a lot of people with standalone units to upgrade. For people with Directv tivo units, there is less reason to upgrade.

Posted by: Pan Chun

quote:
Originally posted by ENS
...as soon as the 2-tuner stand-alone models are released -- which is planned at some point as part of the Series2...

I must have missed this specific announcement. Can you please point me to a link with some actual attribution?

Thanks!

Posted by: ENS

The following fact sheet passed-out at CES was posted by other users of this board (I am simply re-posting it here -- thanks to the original posters). An IT person at my company who was at CES informs me that he saw the fact sheet while at CES.

2-Tuner in the future?: The 2-tuner in a standalone is being reported simply as a future feature, i.e., the new Series2 can support it and was specifically designed for expansion components like second tuners, etc., but there is no word of any kind as to when it might become available ... could be quite a while ... year or two after the Series2 release, etc., or soon after -- no idea when.

Speed/Memory: As to the procesor speed and memory -- it is the same as is available on the AT&T version which is now available: AT&T 40hr Series2 has a 200+ mhz procesor and 32 mb ram (the Directv/tivo already comes with 32 mb ram). This is reported as necessary to handle streaming music and other features that will become available on the Series2.

CES TIVO DVR SERIES2 FACT SHEET

What is TiVo?
TiVo is the most popular digital video recorder (DVR). TiVo DVRs record television programming directly to a digital hard drive, eliminating the hassles of videotape. TiVo automatically records your favorite shows so you can watch what you want, when you can. With TiVo you can watch your favorite shows on your own time. At last, TV fits into your busy life, not the other way around.

What’s new with the DVR Series 2?
TiVo Series2 offers more recording capacity at a lower cost and enables new entertainment services such as digital music, digital photos, broadband video on demand, and video party games that can be enjoyed by the entire family.
The TiVo Series2 offers up to 60 hours of recording time, in a newly designed box that is the smallest and sleekest DVR yet. Two USB expansion ports provide easy connectivity with peripheral devices, such as digital cameras, MP3 players, as well as with other TiVo DVRs and network devices in the home. This connectivity enables TiVo subscribers to access new partner services like a music jukebox or digital photo viewer. With network adaptor, customers can enjoy exciting new entertainment services like playing video party games, listening to Internet radio or sharing programs with other TiVo devices in the home.

TiVo DVR Series2 Feature Highlights
• Up to 60 hours of recording time without the hassles of videotape
• Sleeker dimensions of 15” width by 11.5” depth by 3” height for a convenient fit in your home entertainment system
• As with earlier TiVo standalone units, the TiVo DVR Series2 is compatable with and connects easily to virtually every television model available. TiVo Series2 also works with VCRs, TV antennas, cable systems, and satellite systems.
• Improved patented remote control that allows for easy program recording as well as control of multiple TiVo DVRs in the home
• Enhanced graphics engine
• 2 USB expansion ports to connect to peripheral devices like digital cameras, network adaptors, MP3 players, etc.
• Ready to run multiple entertainment services such as digital music, digital photos, video party games and broadband video on demand.

Availability and options
The TiVo Series2 will be available to consumers beginning in February 2002 online at www.tivo.com and will retail for $399.
A 40-hour version of the Series2 recorders is currently available to AT&T Broadband subscribers in the New England region, Denver, CO and in Cupertino, Los Altos, Mountain View, San Jose, Santa Clara and Sunnyvale, CA for $299 online at www.attbroadband.tivo.com.
TiVo subscribers can choose from two service payment options
• $9.95 monthly subscription
• $249.00 Product Lifetime Subscription
Note: A Lifetime subscription to the TiVo Service covers the life of the recorder or receiver you buy – not the life of the subscriber. The Lifetime subscription accompanies the product in case of ownership transfer. The subscription remains in effect even if you upgrade the record, for example, to increase storage capacity (please contact an authorized dealer or manufacturer) or if the recorder needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer warranty details).
Because Lifetime subscription is linked to a particular recorder, it cannot be transferred to any other recorder (unless the recorder is replaced due to a malfunction covered by the manufacturer’s warranty). Each recorder purchased requires its own service subscription and activation.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How is the TiVo DVR Series2 different than TiVo DVRs currently on the market?
A: TiVo Series2 offers much more recording capacity at a lower cost and new entertainment services such as digital music, digital photos, broadband video on demand, and new video party games that can be ejoyed by the entire family.

Q: Are all of the service applications available with the AT&T Broadband TiVo DVR that is shipping now?
A: Not yet. We’re working with our partners to develop and qualify applications. The AT&T product will support these applications when they become available later in the year.

Q: When will this be in retail?
A: We are focusing our distribution to a select number of national retailers who are truly committed to growing the category with us and expect availability of TiVo Series2 in these stores later this year. TiVo Series2 is available directly from TiVo online at www.tivo.com beginning February 2002. A 40-hour version of the Series 2 recorders is currently available to AT&T Broadband subscribers in the New England region, Denver, CO and in Cupertino, Los Altos, Mountain View, San Jose, Santa Clara and Sunnyvale, CA for $299 online at www.attbroadband.tivo.com.

Posted by: Guyy

I not so sure a two tuner SA is going to do most people any good. It sounds like a good idea, but to make use of it your going to need two sat receivers or two cable boxes. Sure if your just using OTA or basic cable that's easy to split and then you can use both tuners.

Posted by: Dan203

Actually all that says is it's possible to add two tuners to the Series 2, NOT that they are actually ever going to doing it! Adding dual tuners to a SA is not as simple as just slapping in a second cable tuner. It would also require the addition of a second encoder chip, a second set of inputs, and a second set of IR/serial outputs. Not only that but for any setup other the strait cable or OTA the software would need to be fairly complex. It would have to be capable of managing multiple external sources like cable boxes or DSS receivers, without conflicts, as well as a multitude of other combinations for odd setups. For example people who want to have one tuner to be able to use their cable box/DSS receiver, but both to be able to use a strait cable or OTA feed. Or maybe one to use cable & DSS, and the other to use their digital cable box and OTA.

Honestly I don't ever expect to see dual tuners in any TiVo that does not have a controlled source like the DirecTiVo or some kind of cable box/TiVo combo.

Also I seriously doubt the average Joe cares that they have a 200Mhz processor or 32MB of RAM! They only care that it does what it says on the box, and does that well.

Dan

Posted by: Guyy

Really the only way to add a second tuner would to create a USB Tivo add on. Kind of like a WinTV USB tuner, that way all the extra hardware would be contained in the external module and the only thing Tivo would have to do is create the software to control it. Of course this add-on would cost maybe half what a Tivo would so most people would just complain about that..

When you think about it Tivo having USB ports is like your computer having the same ports. Anything that Tivo think's it can write software for could, at least in theory, be hooked up to the USB port.

Maybe a Tivo web cam, that way you can Tivo yourself watching Tivo.. :)

Posted by: modnar

quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
Honestly I don't ever expect to see dual tuners in any TiVo that does not have a controlled source like the DirecTiVo or some kind of cable box/TiVo combo.

I agree with you 100% on this. The complexities of a SA dual tuner seem massive, unless they just say the SA dual tuners can't be used with external sources or two different types of sources. That alternative doesn't seem too great at all, though.

Posted by: SuperRob

Dual tuner is likely going to mean dual TiVo boxes talking to each other over Ethernet. That makes dual tuner obsolete.

Posted by: Skylooker

quote:
Originally posted by Guyy
I not so sure a two tuner SA is going to do most people any good. It sounds like a good idea, but to make use of it your going to need two sat receivers or two cable boxes. Sure if your just using OTA or basic cable that's easy to split and then you can use both tuners.

It would be cool to record from OTA and SAT at the same time. This wouldn't require any reconfig of the current hardware other than that little matter if a second encoder. The back panel wouldn't need to change though.

I think this would be a long road to a small payoff. Personally. I almost always find another upcoming showing that doesn't conflict so I'm not really that enthused about 2 tuners but I can certainly understand some folks being interested in that.

Posted by: bspahn

I was at the CES and asked specifically if the SA series 2 would support dual tuners/dual encoders. The rep said that it could support dual tuners but only one encoder. The second video stream would need to come in through the broadband connection (USB ethernet) already compressed.

Bill

Posted by: smitty99

I wouldn't put much stock in what that rep said. He(/she) didn't even have the terminology correct.

The tuner converts video to a digital form (from the analog source) for the TiVo's use. The encoder compresses it.

What's the point of two digital streams if you can only make use of one? The extra digital stream would be wasted.

Posted by: feldon23

quote:
It would also require the addition of a second encoder chip

The chips in there should have enough horsepower.

quote:
a second set of inputs, and a second set of IR/serial outputs.

Maybe USB.

Anyone have an AT&T TiVo Series2 who has looked at the back and noticed any mysterious/suspicious breakaway metal panels? :)

Posted by: Otto

Looking at Picture #7 on here: http://communities.msn.com/TivoUnde...one.msnw?Page=2

Doesn't look to be a spot for a second tuner to me. For those not in the know, the tuner is the big silver thing on the bottom right of the board.

Now maybe they have a different board design, I don't know. But I'd still say a "2 tuner standalone" is unlikely, and not because of this. It's a whole other problem in software, and if they support such a setup, they'd support it all the way, which basically means including support for separate lineups for separate tuners.

On the plus side, if they WERE to do that, and had a board that could take two "drop in" tuners, you could have a true combo D-Tivo: with one DTV tuner and one analog tuner, to get both OTA/cable signals and DTV signals. Separate lineups would let such a device work.

Posted by: rogo

It would definitely need a second encoder. There is no way the encoder on board could do an adequate job of real-time encoding of 2 MPEG-2 streams, unless there would be a new quality setting: Barely Watchable But Vaguely Reminiscent of the Show You Asked Us to Record.

Mark

Posted by: mishagray

There are MANY configuration problems with the Dual-Tuner.

Another problem: If I have 2 cable boxes, both plugged into separate tuners via IR blasters: how Do keep the IR signals from interfering? Most cable companies have all the cable boxes respond to the same set of IR signals. Heck the digital boxes and non-digital boxes from Comcast NJ even respond to the most of the same IR signals.

I just don't think that most home customers could setup a very effective DualTuner setup.

I think that the only retail SA 'Dual Tuner" features will involve hooking up to Series II boxes together via USB/Ethernet. This makes much more sense, since it offers even more features and is probably only a software upgrade.

Dual Tuners will probably only show up on integrated cable boxes and DirecTivos, where you have NO need for IR/Serial cable control. This is consistant with the Tivo history of keeping the basic simple.

Posted by: SuperRob

Dual Tuners were only necessary before TiVos could talk to each other. Since most of us would put a TiVo in each room with a TV, if they can all talk to each other, one "master" TiVo would handle the scheduling for the rest.

See, you don't need DUAL tuners in one box when you can have as many as you have TiVos. Not to mention that you get more storage this way too.

It seems to me that the cost of adding a tuner to a TiVo would be so close to the cost of the machine itself, that this is the easier and somewhat more cost-effective route anyway.

Posted by: foo monkey

I want a pony.

Posted by: HTH

quote:
Originally posted by SuperRob
Since most of us would put a TiVo in each room with a TV, if they can all talk to each other, one "master" TiVo would handle the scheduling for the rest.

Why only one master? Do you want everything to go to over the network to one designated master? And if the role of master is assigned to whichever hardware is local to you, what if someone else wants to use one of the slaves in another room? Why not a cooperative where each can make requests of others, where you can have full utililzation of each unit's processing power?

But then there's the network congestion of everyone wanting to watch something different stored on non-local hardware. And how many data streams can one TiVo serve simultaneously?

Posted by: drmcm

quote:
Originally posted by Guyy
I not so sure a two tuner SA is going to do most people any good. It sounds like a good idea, but to make use of it your going to need two sat receivers or two cable boxes. Sure if your just using OTA or basic cable that's easy to split and then you can use both tuners.

This is exactly why TiVo is making this an add on option. Wouldn't be good for them to put money into adding a second tuner if a large percentage of your customers couldn't use it. But if they had a second tuner/encoder in a USB box for say $100 or something, I'm sure that many of us would find a good use for it. Those that want to have an OTA or basic cable input could do that. TiVo could even use this as a way to make a proper video-in using this type of box for TiVo-ing from video cameras, etc (without getting in the way of scheduled recordings). With a little software to let you name the recording, specify time to record, etc. I'd say there is a good market for both the lower end (OTA croud), and geek end (video editing) that could provide an additional revenue stream without too much extra effort for TiVo (given that they've already got two tuner software working in the DirecTiVo boxes).

-Mike

Posted by: DLiquid

Many people with cable boxes get basic cable without the cable box. It would be nice if you could split the coax signal, run one cable into the cable box and then to the TiVo; and run the other cable straight to the TiVo. If you could do this, you would then have "two tuners," one for your cable box and one for your basic cable (no cable box) connection. With two MPEG encoders you would be able to record two shows at the same time in the same way as the DirecTiVo units can, although of course you couldn't record two premium channels at the same time (only one cable box).

When I first bought and hooked up my TiVo, I was pretty surprised I couldn't do this. Even without two encoders, being able to connect both the cable box and basic cable to the TiVo would be nice, since ideally I would like TiVo to avoid using the cable box whenever possible. That way, I could TiVo something off basic cable and watch something on the cable box at the same time. With the current restrictions, my cable box is a slave to the TiVo. If the TiVo is recording something, even if it is on NBC, there is no way for me to watch HBO.

I would buy an add-on USB device in order to add a second tuner/encoder, even if it cost $100. I really have no idea of the different cable configurations out there, perhaps these days not everyone can get basic cable without a cable box. But for me, and probably thousands of other TiVo users, a dual-tuner implementation would not need to involve more than one cable box, more than one IR emitter, more than one TiVo, or any of the other possibilities outlined in the other posts in this thread. What I described is a very simple set up.

Posted by: mostman

quote:
Originally posted by SuperRob
Dual Tuners were only necessary before TiVos could talk to each other. Since most of us would put a TiVo in each room with a TV, if they can all talk to each other, one "master" TiVo would handle the scheduling for the rest.

No master required - all TiVos talking together in one happy TiVo universe.

-Mike