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Taking the juice for free
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Posted by: jkeegan

In September, I coined a phrase.

I'm only posting this here because I use this phrase very often with people during TiVo discussions.

That phrase, was "taking the juice for free".
(It's indecipherable without the story)

Then this morning, for one of my birthday gifts, my brother Jon created a funny flash animation that illustrates it perfectly. It and the explanation is at:

keegan.org/juice

Check it out, then I'm curious.. Is it just me, or does everyone get a huge amount of this behavior when describing TiVo (or worse yet, when talking with someone who just got it but doesn't yet "get it"?)

Posted by: martinp13

Um, no. I keep a tight rein on my juice.

Posted by: unoriginal

What does that website mean when it says I don't have flash 5. I know for a fact that I do have it.

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by unoriginal
What does that website mean when it says I don't have flash 5. I know for a fact that I do have it.

Damn.. If you know you have it, try going straight to
this page

Any idea what OS and browser you're running, so I can fix the flash-detection script? (Thanks)

Posted by: HTH

I guess I'll have to watch it again later on a computer with sound capabilities. They don't give us sound cards for our computers at work.

Posted by: stevel

quote:
Originally posted by HTH
I guess I'll have to watch it again later on a computer with sound capabilities. They don't give us sound cards for our computers at work.

Perhaps it's just me, but it won't be any clearer with sound...

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by stevel

Perhaps it's just me, but it won't be any clearer with sound...

:)

Ok, see, any time someone's passively lies to just satisfy a conversation - any time they're saying "yeah" to stuff they don't actually know, any time they're trying to be a part of a conversation that they haven't really earned - any time they get other people's juices flowing about the conversation, despite having nothing to actually offer - they're taking the juice for free.

So if someone who just got a TiVo is talking to you, and you say "Have you been doing thumbs ups and thumbs downs?", and they say "yeah, uh huh" - with a vacant stare, then they're taking the juice for free. You could be getting all worked up describing something to them, but they don't let you in on the fact that they don't know what you're talking about.. That's taking the juice for free.

See? (and if you say "uh huh", but don't, then you're doing it!)

It's not just you, it's a good percentage of people, but if you use the term even once, you'll start to see people doing it all the time. Now there's a name for a condition we usually just call either lying or politeness or something...

Posted by: unoriginal

quote:
Originally posted by jkeegan

Damn.. If you know you have it, try going straight to
this page

Any idea what OS and browser you're running, so I can fix the flash-detection script? (Thanks)

That worked. I am using opera 6 right now. I tried using a different browser (IE6) but I made a stupid mistake and put in the URL of the site I thought opera was not loading right. :o

Posted by: erivers

Yeah, uh-huh, right.

Posted by: BryanRDC

I get it! And I like this phrase a lot. I expect I'll use it now and again, but will avoid doing so with my wife. She says lots of things I don't understand, and I don't want to get smacked!

Posted by: tj

Well, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. And I admit to doing it too much :(.

Posted by: bareyb

quote:
Originally posted by Avian
uhhhhhmm... I don't think I will ever use this phrase because its the stupidest thing I've ever heard... and the flash animation doesn't help!

Avian. Dude. What is UP with you lately? You are really becoming an *******. Are you trying to make a name for yourself by being confrontational and "opinionated"? I don't mind opinionated, but you seem to be lately entering other peoples threads and simply trashing something they are enthusiastic about with no good reason or explanation. Just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Don't know why you have your panties in such a bunch lately, but it's clearly not "you" and doesn't fit. You can't pull it off cuz you don't know where to draw the line. You don't come off cool, you just come off rude and juvenile. I know you're young and trying to find yourself... But seriously, try a new persona. This one sucks (!) :)

Posted by: LordJohnWhorfin

I was surprised by the amazing quality of the production. Little bro is quite a wiz. Oh, and it was funny as hell, too :)

Posted by: FlashingTwelve

quote:
Originally posted by Avian
uhhhhhmm... I don't think I will ever use this phrase because its the stupidest thing I've ever heard... and the flash animation doesn't help!

Tivo forum is no place for honesty!

Posted by: tj

quote:
Originally posted by bareyb

Avian. Dude. What is UP with you lately? You are really becoming an *******. Are you trying to make a name for yourself by being confrontational and "opinionated"? I don't mind opinionated, but you seem to be lately entering other peoples threads and simply trashing something they are enthusiastic about with no good reason or explanation. Just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Don't know why you have your panties in such a bunch lately, but it's clearly not "you" and doesn't fit. You can't pull it off cuz you don't know where to draw the line. You don't come off cool, you just come off rude and juvenile. I know you're young and trying to find yourself... But seriously, try a new persona. This one sucks (!) :)

Actualy, Avian has been that way for a while in chat (come join us sometime, Avian isnt usualy there ;) ) and now seems to be letting it out here.

Avian: Be a good boy!

Posted by: Fofer

I get it, that's sorta funny, in a "iknowwhatyoumean" kinda way.

I think there are two variations though... First, "taking the juice for free" deliberately, to elevate yourself and annoy the other person. This behavior is usually coupled with cryptic remarks like, "Oh, you should've SEEN it, it was awesome ... I can't explain it."

Followed by the second variation... "taking the juice for free" by default, due to ignorance. Saying, "Yeah, uh huh, yeah" when you have no idea what the other person is talking about.

I'll admit I'm guilty of the first kind, and most of my colleagues are guilty of the second (especially when I talk about TiVo.)

BTW, kudos to your bro on the Flash animation. He did a great job!

Posted by: jmccorm

Actually, I take the juice for free. I take it a LOT. What happens is that someone (usually one of my coworkers) starts discussing a really obscure topic in front of a number of people. Nobody has the slightest clue what they're talking about. Then, they get to the phrase which more or less means, "Does anyone know what I'm talking about?"

At that point, I act really excited like it suddenly hits me, and I repeat back a point they already said and then say something obvious that might be taken as showing insight. (In a way, I am giving the juice for free, but it is fake juice, and only used to receive outside juice.)

The other person becomes really really excited that someone understands what they are talking about. And so they either go on a bit more, or ask some more questions.

Shortly thereafter, especially when they ask a question I can't possibly wiggle out of in a credible way, I'll shake my head no and say that I have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and I was just playing along.

They then realize that I've taken their juice for free. And actually, it can be fun sometimes. Everyone else is glad that the person stopped yammering on and on about something obscure.

Posted by: nrc

I prefer "Shave my poodle".

Posted by: erivers

This thread reads like a Seinfeld episode.

Posted by: bgreen5

Stop squeezing my trumpet, man!

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by erivers
This thread reads like a Seinfeld episode.

Whether intended this way or not, I'll take that as a compliment! :)

Posted by: trainman

Why buy the apple orchard when you can get the juice for free?

Posted by: Fofer

quote:
Originally posted by tj

Actualy, Avian has been that way for a while in chat (come join us sometime, Avian isnt usualy there ;) )

There's a chat room in here? Where?

Posted by: rogben

quote:
Originally posted by erivers
This thread reads like a Seinfeld episode.

Heh... yeah, there is a "George trying to get everyone to call him 'T-Bone'" vibe in the air. :)

Posted by: scooterboy

Well, I think both the phrase and the animation are inspired. Great job on the website too.

I also enjoy obscure references with friends and coworkers. One of my current favorites at work is when one of us is asked to do a task which serves no apparent purpose other than to satisfy some bureaucratic rule. We'll look at each other and say (in our best "Office Space" impression) "Yeeeaaahhhh, I'm gonna need you to use that new cover sheet on the TSR reports. Did you get the memo? I'll send it to you again..."

Posted by: henryhank

First, I get it, and I think the phrase and the flash animation are great. I may use it in the future.

Second, I coined a similar term (well, modified an existing one, anyway).. some of you may remember my "life sucks" thread a few weeks ago about a close friend of mine who started dating someone new... and I was quite upset by it... well I wrote her a long letter explaining that I couldn't really hang out with her anymore "as friends"..and among other things, I wrote: I can't go on paying for the cow, while someone else gets the milk for free. Harsh, sure... but that's how I felt.

Posted by: Fofer

Funny, I find myself "taking the juice for free" over here in THIS THREAD right now!:p

Posted by: bgreen5

quote:
Originally posted by rogben

Heh... yeah, there is a "George trying to get everyone to call him 'T-Bone'" vibe in the air. :)

Or is Jeff guilty of "taking it out". :D

i.e., showing off something he's proud of, and hoping his audience will do something with it?

Elaine: "He took... (blows on fingernails)... it out."

(just kidding Jeff... the phrase does make sense to me. I may use it if I remember to.)

Posted by: bgreen5

Wait a minute...

Forum rules clearly state: "no theft of service talk allowed". Doesn't "taking the juice for free" fall under that category?

Actually, when I first saw the thread title, I thought this topic was about stealing electricity from the power company. ;)

Posted by: Avian

I can feel the love.

Posted by: gleffler

quote:
Originally posted by Fofer

There's a chat room in here? Where?

Look under the Javascript menus: Members Area > Live Chat, or use an IRC client to connect to caladan.shadowfire.org room #AVSForum-Live.

Hope to see you there! :)

/gleffler
http://136.165.85.14/mp3.php

Posted by: Spire

quote:
Originally posted by scooterboy
"Yeeeaaahhhh, I'm gonna need you to use that new cover sheet on the TSR reports...."

Or TPS reports, even.

Posted by: bgreen5

quote:
Originally posted by Avian
I can feel the love.

Terrific!

Just try to give some back once in a while, and everybody's cool!

:) :) :)

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by Fofer
Funny, I find myself "taking the juice for free" over here in THIS THREAD right now!:p

Speaking of other threads, over here we've determined that it's perfectly ok (and highly recommended) to take the juice for free from telemarketers. :)

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by rogben

Heh... yeah, there is a "George trying to get everyone to call him 'T-Bone'" vibe in the air. :)

:D

My favorite Seinfeld reference started when the show had just ended. Jason Alexander (George) was commenting on the fact that he was sad that one of the phrases from the show hadn't taken off.

Someone (Jerry? George?) in one episode had said:
Why do people always say god bless you when you sneeze? It's so depressing. Why not say something to cheer them up? Like

You are sooooooooooooo good looking!!!

:) I hear that now from my wife every time I sneeze. Well, that, or "I WISH YOU WELL!!!", said just-a-bit-louder-than-normal..

Let's see, George wanted to be T-Bone, Buck Naked, Art Vandelay.. any others?

(opportunity for non Seinfeld-fans to take the juice for free)

Posted by: jcblack

Great flash!...all around well done. No crit on the catchphrase from me, but I will admit that I take the juice for free about 10 times a day, it seems. Its so much easier to sound interested in someone's stupid drivel than to a) show them you don't know what they are talking about and b) act like it matters that you don't know what they are talking about and hense want to know more when in reality you don't care.

yikes, i sound like a lying selfish jerk.

Posted by: scooterboy

quote:
Originally posted by Spire

Or TPS reports, even.

Yeah, them too. :p

TPS reports are now called TSR reports. Didn't you get the memo? No?? I'll send it to you again...

Posted by: krose

You know, sometimes you take the juice for free, and sometimes the juice comes spraying at you totally unprovoked.

And if YOU don't take it, it's just gonna wind up all over the place, and that can be messy.

Posted by: jradosh

quote:
Originally posted by jkeegan

Let's see, George wanted to be T-Bone, Buck Naked, Art Vandelay.. any others?

An architect, marine biologist, and/or a talk show host. :p

"Taking the Juice for Free" definately reminds me of some of the Seinfeld catch-phrases...

"I've got hand" ("you're going to need it!")

"She's got the 'jimmy' legs"

"King of the Castle", "Lord of the Manor", "Master of your Domain" ;)

"Yada, Yada, Yada"

"Not that there's anything wrong with that"

... and so on (that's all I remember right now)

J :)

Posted by: Flogduh

Well, I like my juice, 'pulp free'....

Posted by: jkeegan

Someone wrote a mock Seinfeld script based on Taking The Juice For Free, and it's now on the Taking The Juice For Free page (keegan.org/juice ). Damned funny!

Well, it's been about 2 weeks since the last post.. Have you all been doing your homework, spreading the phrase like a virus? Any stories of blank stares or people actually getting it? I'd love to hear that I infected a Jehovah's witness or Mormon with this and that it spread a bit that way too (I wonder if people would listen to that at their door instead of the god talk?).

When I was a kid, my Dad joked that he wanted to predict the next "cool word" ("awesome" had just taken off). He predicted that "Immmmmmmmmmmpresssive!!" would be next. :D We actually got a whole bunch of people saying that in college!

Spread the word!!! keegan.org/juice

Posted by: HTH

I think we have another juice taker.

Posted by: walters

quote:
Originally posted by HTH
I think we have another juice taker.

I don't think that's the correct meaning of the phrase.

BTW, what the heck is this thread doing in the Coffee House?

Posted by: Fofer

quote:
Originally posted by walters

I don't think that's the correct meaning of the phrase.

Well, not the way jkeegan means it... but in that thread the poster asked about someone who STOLE the juice... literally.

Posted by: disco

So....what REALLY happened to the dog?

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by walters
BTW, what the heck is this thread doing in the Coffee House?

quote:
Originally posted by jkeegan
I'm only posting this here because I use this phrase very often with people during TiVo discussions.

quote:
Originally posted by jkeegan
Check it out, then I'm curious.. Is it just me, or does everyone get a huge amount of this behavior when describing TiVo (or worse yet, when talking with someone who just got it but doesn't yet "get it"?)

Originally it was because I was curious about how many of us were running into others taking the juice for free when we describe TiVo to them, so it seemed at least slightly TiVo related in that context. I'll agree though, now it'd probably get a lot more comments/views in the Happy Hour forum. If some moderator wants to move it, I won't object. :)

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by disco904
So....what REALLY happened to the dog?

Hahaha!! <-- Me taking the juice for free, because I'm completely missing the reference. What dog?

The brick!!!

[edit: unless you mean good 'ol Shep.. :) ]

Posted by: Saturn

I don't like this phrase because it is inherently difficult to describe its origins. I think catch phrases need to be describable in a sentence or two or you'll just get blank stares. "Bless you" for instance, after sneezing. "take the juice for free" doesn't work because "juice" apparently refers to brain "juice" which doesn't make much sense at all. To describe the phrase requires a flash animation and additional commentary on TC. I doubt it'll catch on, except, of course, maybe here.

Posted by: jkeegan

While I'm not delusional that this will suddenly be a household term that spreads like wildfire, there are many phrases that are lengthy that we use all the time (and that don't even make sense)..

"Let's run this one up the flagpole.." (?) is the first one that comes to mind..

The issue is further complicated by the fact that juice isn't really "brain juice" (as the flash animation almost suggests) - it's really the energy of the conversation..

I agree, it's convoluted in origin.. But once you've heard it or used it yourself once or twice, it's always there. :)

And with your specific example of Bless You, I completely disagree.. Being the proud atheist that I am (must.. not.. go.. on.... tangent... !) I started trying to say something other than "bless you" or "god bless you" long ago.. I originally said "gesundheit" (which means "health" or "good health"), but I found a lot of people thought it meant god bless you.. One day as a result of a joke, I started saying (loudly) "I WISH YOU WELL!!!" after every sneeze, which caught on incredibly well. That has now been replaced in my circle of almost everyone I know with "You are soooooooooo good lookin'!!" after every sneeze, since in the interviews for the last episode of Seinfeld Jason Alexander had said that he was sad that that one phrase hadn't caught on more as a replacement for the "sorry you sneezed" phrase.

If there were another phrase describing this condition, I might even defer to that.. (well, no, I wouldn't, but if there had already been such a phrase....), but I hate trying to express a complex pattern to someone you know, over and over, without a term for it. I (as well as other users of this wonderful phrase) now have a tool that keeps most people from lying out of politeness..

Another example, to illustrate (for those of you not fully "getting" it yet):

Gertrude: So what's new?
Wilhelm: Nothing
Gertrude: Oh.

(pause)

Gertrude: The weather outside is nice.
Wilhelm: uh huh.

(another pause)

Gertrude: I hear they're filming a special on CBS celebrating the career of Jm J Bullock.
Wilhelm: Oh man, I gotta TiVo that..
Gertrude: Yes!
(Wilhelm gets excited that Gertrude knew what TiVo was)
Wilhelm: Oh! I sooo want a DirecTiVo though, because I hate not hearing stuff on 5.1 surround sound
Gertrude: Uh huh! Sound is important.
(Wilhelm feels he's connected even more with Gertrude)
Wilhelm: Cool. Remind me to TiVo the Jm J Bullock show later!
Gertrude: Oh you'd better hurry. I think they'll be sold out soon, tickets for TV shows are tough to come by.

(long pause)

Wilhelm: Ummm..

(another long pause)

Wilhelm: When I said "TiVo" before, ... you didn't know what I meant, did you?

(longer pause)

Gertrude: Well, no.
Wilhelm: Why didn't you say "What is TiVo???"

It's because she wanted a free ride to a happy conversation. She didn't have anything to actually contribute (that he cared about anyway), so she rode the coattails of his one-person discussion, letting him think they were both a part of it. She hadn't earned his enthusiasm. She was taking the juice for free.

Aaaarrrgh!
Don't take the juice for free!

(And in re-reading that example, yeah Wilhelm is a jerk.. :) )

Posted by: MighTiVo

seven syllables
(kee gan dot org slash ti vo )
they explain it all

Ok, I went there and saw:

Shameless self-promotion

!!! Buy my Hacking TiVo Book !!!

I also read,

My most recent (and so far best) aggregate tivo hacking story is here on AVSForum:
My killer-app tivo/tivoweb/palmpilot story

And a bunch of these:

Sorry, didn't get a chance to edit/write this tivo hack page before making the web site public on September 19th, 2001 (Laurie's Birthday!!).

I plan on finishing these pages very soon, so do check back. Most hack information is available on the TiVo Underground.

If this notice is still here by November, do me a favor and nag me about it (mention which page it is!).

Well past November (I assume you meant 2001) The page can be found:
http://www.keegan.org/jeff/tivo/bashprompt.html
and
http://www.keegan.org/jeff/tivo/pppdortivonet.html
and
http://www.keegan.org/jeff/tivo/extractstream.html
and
http://www.keegan.org/jeff/tivo/osd.html
and
http://www.keegan.org/jeff/tivo/osd.html

You also list TiVoweb as v1.9.2 instead of current v1.9.4 which includes your log viewer.

Book is in preorder stage, and most recent hack is from 2001? Also the downloads on your site all seem to be from 2001, really most everything looks like it is from 2001.

Is the book more up to date?

I would think you would want your website to be in a little better shape with the book being released.

Or has it been on preorder since 2001 and just died on the vine.....

Did I just take the juice?

Posted by: jkeegan

Sigh. Ok...

Yep, the web site is a mess. As you pointed out, I haven't updated the many of the pages, and I point to a version of TivoWeb that's two revisions old. I don't even mention that I wrote the TivoWeb search module! I'll add that the page telling you where to buy one is horribly out of date. The web page was up way back when there weren't nearly as many TiVo pages as there are today. I took some time off of TiVo to get married, pour a huge amount of time into work, and enjoy getting outside for a bit with my new wife. But you're right, it's two years out of date - there aren't many excuses.

And you're right, I did want to have the page looking better before the book came out. I started writing the book many many months ago.. There was no competition at the time, then suddenly two books popped out of the woodwork competing with mine, both seemingly accelerated by having the chapters written in parallel by several authors (well at least that's the case with one of them). Oh yeah, throw in that I just had a baby girl. So I've been trying like crazy to finish up the book on time (occassionally getting distracted by spending too much time on these forums.. :( ), and haven't really had time to polish-up(/write) an alternate version of a tiny subset of what's going into my 575 page book.

You get paid nothing to write a web site, which I happily did to help spread the word about TiVo. You get paid almost nothing to write a book, which I've done at quite a loss just because it seemed like a cool idea at the time to write this stuff up and preserve it for history's sake.. Writing a web site takes up almost no time. Writing a book (yourself) takes quite a while.

The main point of the keegan.org/tivo URL is usually my "What is TiVo?" page, as I described when I first announced the page back in 2001..

All that having been said, why the hostility?

(It's because you got your account 10 days after me, isn't it.. ;) )

p.s. No, that wasn't taking the juice, but you already knew that.

Posted by: MighTiVo

quote:
Originally posted by jkeegan
All that having been said, why the hostility?

(It's because you got your account 10 days after me, isn't it.. ;) )

p.s. No, that wasn't taking the juice, but you already knew that.

I am very sorry if you took that post as hostile, I woudn't have posted anything had the website not said "nag me about this", I thought that I just posted a pretty good nag!

And no, I didn't know that, I didn't think it was, but I really wasn't sure.

P.S. Even though I have upgraded about 10 TiVos, installed TiVoWeb, and most of the other goodies, your book description does sound interesting.
I am still lost on the resources, does your book cover that? Does it have anything about 4.0 such as changing the hash for back-doors? Should I be more likely to be able to actually create something for TiVo or TiVoweb after reading your book or is it just how to implement what others have done.

Thanks, and again sorry you took my post as hostility....

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by MighTiVo
I am very sorry if you took that post as hostile, I woudn't have posted anything had the website not said "nag me about this", I thought that I just posted a pretty good nag!

And no, I didn't know that, I didn't think it was, but I really wasn't sure.

P.S. Even though I have upgraded about 10 TiVos, installed TiVoWeb, and most of the other goodies, your book description does sound interesting.
I am still lost on the resources, does your book cover that? Does it have anything about 4.0 such as changing the hash for back-doors? Should I be more likely to be able to actually create something for TiVo or TiVoweb after reading your book or is it just how to implement what others have done.

Thanks, and again sorry you took my post as hostility....

All work and no play makes Jeff go crazy. :) Sorry for the misinterpretation, like I've said elsewhere, not getting much sleep.

I'm holding off on saying too much about what's in the book for a bit longer, but yes on all counts.

Posted by: Koan

quote:
Originally posted by disco904
So....what REALLY happened to the dog?

Originally posted by jkeegan
Hahaha!! <-- Me taking the juice for free, because I'm completely missing the reference. What dog?

The brick!!!

[edit: unless you mean good 'ol Shep.. :) ]

The line is from Silverado. I earned that juice!

Posted by: dcheesi

I actually do this without meaning to. When I'm listening to someone, I'll unconsciously nod along with what they're saying. Sometimes people think I'm agreeing, or even impatiently acknowledging a point, when I'm really just following along (or trying to).

Posted by: Bradc314

What the heck is it with all the resurrected threads lately????

Posted by: jradi

I for one take the juice every single day, for no other reason than "it's there to be taken."

I do it so often it must be a compulsion, I just love getting people worked up about stuff, getting their juice flowin'.

Posted by: verncr

Even though I don't think they did it on Seinfeld, I could very much see a different scenario for this saying.

Kramer could go to a blood donation drive and pretend to have given blood just to get the 'juice for free'.

In a way, this use is a natural evolution from the 'episode', because they would be very excited that he gave blood, kind of like a speaker being very excited that you 'know' what they are talking about.

Posted by: jkeegan

Actually that could have worked out pretty well..

What if at first they started with this Seinfeld taking-the-juice-for-free episode

except that Kramer wasn't involved.. Then he came in later, they explained it to him, and he didn't understand the phrase at all.. He says "... so if I tell George he's a jerk, I'm taking the juice for free?" and a confused Jerry says "No! That's not it at all!" and Kramer says "I'm outta here, I gotta go" and leaves..

Later Kramer goes to the blood bank he'd previously said he was going to, but once he got there he saw the needle and chickened out.. As he was leaving, they offered him juice, which he took.

Later "So hey, yep, I like that phrase.. I took the juice for free too today!".. George starts feeling better about it, even defending it.. "Why should I ask the other person what they're talking about when it's just going to be a long boring explanation?!?!" (George very happy that someone identifies with him)

Kramer: "What? No, that's wrong.. That's just common courtesy! Of COURSE you ask what they're talking about? What kind of person are you?!"

Jerry: He's a juice taker!

(George and Kramer turn to look at Jerry)

George: I thought you said you took the juice for free!

Kramer: .. orange juice!

..(insert rest of episode here)..

:)

Posted by: jcblack

OK, keegan, If you prank someone, is that like giving your juice? Your juices are flowing, but their's aren't. How's that work?

Posted by: jkeegan

quote:
Originally posted by jcblack
OK, keegan, If you prank someone, is that like giving your juice? Your juices are flowing, but their's aren't. How's that work?

(Looks slanty-eyed at jcblack, trying to make sure I'm not being pranked. :) )

I'm stunned that people don't recognize the condition I'm talking about here.. I can see if my explanation is poor, but I figured at some point most people would say "Oh THAT! Oh man my friggin Aunt does that all the time, and it drives me crazy!" or something.. Maybe there are some of you out there that don't have this happen to you at all.. Wow, all I can say is I'm jealous.

Let's think back to the easiest example for people here to relate to: TiVo. I'm sure most people here have one, and most people here have to know someone who doesn't have one. Have you ever been in a boring conversation (or maybe a slow-to-start conversation with someone you just met at a party or something), you offhandedly mention TiVo, and they act lke you know what you're talking about - even though they had no idea?

If you get visibly more interested in the conversation, and they want you more interested in the conversation, and they don't come out and say "I don't know what TiVo is..", then they let you continue to believe something that wasn't true so you would stay interested in either them or the conversation. They misrepresented their knowledge of something just because they were enjoying this new level of attention they were getting, that they knew deep down wasn't well deserved, because they knew they didn't have any idea what you were talking about (and they let you keep going). They were taking the juice for free.. (Someone who had earned the juice (energy) of the conversation would be someone who said "Actually no I don't know what TiVo is.. what is it?" - which might lead to an interesting discussion where both people are actually involved.)

What's actually GOOD to hear is that a lot of people have posted things "close" to the idea, while still being kinda wrong. The reason I think that's good? THEY'RE NOT TAKING THE JUICE FOR FREE!! If they'd all been like "Hey! Yeah, that's funny.. I .. get it.. uh.. yeah!" when they actually didn't get it, that might be taking the juice for free (if they were not telling me they fully didn't get it because they wanted the conversation to continue)..

As for pranking someone, and "If you prank someone, is that like giving your juice? Your juices are flowing, but their's aren't"... eh - not really. (Though thanks for trying!) Again, the juice is the energy of the discussion.. I know it sounds stupid and awkward to need a phrase like "energy of the discussion" to try to describe it, but I'm not making this up here, I'm just trying to describe an already-existing pattern that happens out there.

What might be close is if someone were intentionally taking the juice for free.. Suppose you have a mean boss that you dislike (and think is stupid). If he came by the table where you and your coworkers/buddies were eating lunch, joined you (to be a good manager that "shows he cares", in section 12 subsection 4-a of the Three-Ring-Binder rules on Good Management), and you all deliberately (as a private joke) showed fake enthusiasm for everything he said (even though you had no idea what it meant), that would be deliberately taking the juice for free.. (I guess that's premeditated stealing of the juice!).. But it's different because in that case, you do want his enthusiasm/energy up, but not because you're genuinely interested in it but rather because you're making a sick game out of seeing how interested you can get him in a conversation you know to be fake.

Now instead of describing an existing condition, I'm describing a made-up one, so it's more difficult, but I'll try to give an example. In THAT scenario above:

(Pre-medidated stealing of the juice) (rolls off your tongue eh?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
jerkboss (trying to slum it with employees): So my wife watches that show "Fox's Sell-Your-Soul-And-Amputate-Your-Right-Arm-For-$5" now..
guy1: Oh yeah! Hey that's a really cool show.. (secretly smirks at coworkers.. neither he nor his friends have heard of this show)
jerkboss (mood slightly changes for the better): Really? You like it? Well, I actually watch it too.. It's so interesting! To think someone would chop off their right arm for a measley five dollars!
guy2: (also never heard of this show) Rave reviews! What's your favorite part? (snickers)
jerkboss: Well, I like the soul-selling ceremony the best!
guy1, guy2, and guy3 smile..

There ya go, there's me bending over backwards trying to explore how it might fit into pranking as well. :) If I see anyone deliberately focusing on those details and obviously confusing them with the actual phrase, I'll now suspect them of doing it deliberately. :)

(BTW, I think there's a more common name that somewhat applies to the deliberate version we just invented.. pulling one's chains, or ... trolling)

:)

Posted by: marcus2002

So what kind of juice would this be. We use to always play this game at my old job with the goofy guy with low self esteem.
We would be talking about how great something is TV show car motorbike. And this guy would hear us and come over and start agreeing to whatever we were saying. Then we would start doing a 180 about really the plot like isn't that good though and the acting sucks and the writting. So this guy would start agreeing again then we would change it again. But the girls are hot and the sets are nice and man the cars in that show are awesome. And the guy would follow allow and just agree all the way. To me it sounds like he is trying to steal the juice and what he thought was the juice of the conversation was our little game with him.
So if you meet someone that constantly steals the juice agreeing with what you are saying all the time just to have you interested in them and talk to them more. You can do that yourself. Just do a 180 on the topic and see if they do to and then how long you can keep it going.

Not sure if that relates, but it is fun to play with people that steal your juice.
;)

Posted by: jkeegan

(applause)

Woohoo! Yep, there ya go. Despite your intentions, from his point of view, he was taking the juice for free. He pretended he knew what you were talking about, so he could be a part of the conversation. Someone braver than he/she would have said something like "Not to sound like an idiot, but what's this xyz show you're talking about? Haven't seen it - should I?" or something..

The fact that you were having fun with him only meant, as you say, that his white lie ended up not stealing you of (wasted) enthusiasm, but rather he stole decoy juice that you left out for him as a trap. :)

"It is fun to play with people that steal your juice." --marcus2002

Good quote! :)

Posted by: MighTiVo

Does Dory (Ellen DeGeneres) in Finding Nemo take the juice?

Marlin: Has anyone seen a boat go by?
Dory: I saw a boat!
Marlin: You did?
Dory: Yeah, it went that way! Come on!
[few seconds later]
Dory: Hey, back off, okay? Why are you following me?

Posted by: jkeegan

Dunno, haven't seen it yet, and it's tough to tell from just the dialog.. Maybe? I'll rent it once I have some free time again and let you know. :)

Posted by: spankspank

No juice. Dory is just forgetful. Remember?

Posted by: MighTiVo

Forgetful but she seems to go along with almost any conversation.

Posted by: verncr

Haven't seen Finding Nemo, but it sounds like she take the juice, but misplaces the juice. She can take the juice, but she can't hold the juice (to paraphrase seinfeld)

Posted by: Zirak

Well, read it, understand it but I feel compelled to share that....

Well, I have never taken the juice for free or for any other way, but I sure have been giving it for free since my teens! :D

Posted by: MighTiVo

quote:
Originally posted by verncr
Haven't seen Finding Nemo, but it sounds like she take the juice, but misplaces the juice.

LOL :p