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Question about TiVo's financial status.
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Posted by: bobcarn

I'm interested in getting a 2nd TiVo (for my partner), but I really don't like having to pay for two full subscriptions (there really should be a multiple-TiVo discount plan). I'll go ahead and do it, but I'm also concerned about the financial status of the company itself. I've seen some posts that are saying that TiVo really has a lot of debt, or they have other problems.

Anyone with knowledgeable information as to TiVo's current financial situtation, what the outcome for the company may be, what they think the outcome will be, etc., etc., etc.? If TiVo has problems and the company goes under, the units installed right now lose 90% of their functionality. I'm not even sure that without a subscription, you can even pause or rewind live television. If I came across a cheap older unit, I'd probably buy it. But I want to consider all possibilities before I invest in a new Series 2 device.

Also, this could make for some interesting reading on these threads. It's been discussed before, but I wonder if anything new has occured to the company.

Posted by: jtallon

quote:
Originally posted by princessvoodoo
Removed

I would check out finanace.yahoo.com and search for Tivo - it'll show you all financial news relating to Tivo. I don't have any answers myself, just figured I'd post something slightly more useful than the last comment...

[Edit by Otto: Removed personal attack and tasteless comment.. In the future, people, try not to quote these types of comments. We'll remove them eventually (it takes time for us to notice) and you quoting them just makes us have more work to do.]

Posted by: bobcarn

quote:
Originally posted by jtallon

Uhm, ok.

I would check out finanace.yahoo.com and search for Tivo - it'll show you all financial news relating to Tivo. I don't have any answers myself, just figured I'd post something slightly more useful than the last comment...

Thanks. I didn't think about going to Yahoo. I still wouldn't mind hearing what people are speculating. It's usually interesting to hear what people think of these things. I can read the financial reports, but I'm never good with reading between the lines when it comes to business issues. My expertise (or lack of) usually involves red ink=bad, black ink=good. :D

Thanks again for the reply. I would've hated leaving the thread hanging on that remark.

Posted by: samo

TiVo is publicly traded company so you can read all of the financial statements on nasdaq.com. As of last report TiVo lost $400+ million dollars and had 280,000+ customers. New financial information will be available March 7 on TiVo conference call (link to CC is available from Yahoo). If you are concerned about TiVo financials, you may want to delay your purchase till March 7.

Posted by: Rcrew

Interesting numbers samo.

Hummm... 280,000 customers (and what's a customer), $10 per month... clickity clack beep beep = $2.8 mil.... clickity clack beep beep = $33,600,000 per year......

$400,000,000 in losses last year.....

Must be some other source of income. I hope.

Rob

Posted by: samo

quote:
$400,000,000 in losses last year.....

No, no, no! Last year loss was about $140 million. $400+ number is a total loss.

Posted by: Guyy

As the above posts say Tivo is losing money, a lot of money!, each year. So people are not going to continue to dump money into them forever with no hope for a return. Now I'm hoping with the cheap Dtivos and Christmas that Tivo's customer numbers are growing quickly now. That should place them on a little better footing.

Also I've heard rumor that Tivo will not be subsidizing the series 2 Tivo's. Anyone know if that's true? If so that will cut loses and by having ads (yes everyone loves them) offered through Tivo that should help their revenue as well..

I think the best hope for Tivo comes from Dtv. There are 10 millions Dtv customers to market to and the Dtivo's rock :) . Plus if you are a Dtv customer, your used to the idea of buying a Dtv box for each TV so there is less of an issue there. Plus the Dtivo's are cheaper. Right now they are cheaper 'cause Dtv is kicking in on the price of them. But even in the future they should be cheaper as Dtivo's only record Dtv..

Posted by: Convert

bobcarn: I've been wrong before (notably beta), but I can't imagine TiVo going out of business. If anything, I would guess that it would be a sound investment to get lifetime for your partner's TiVo (lucky guy!) It seems inevitable that the subscription price will go up again. I'm continually glad that I got lifetime while it was still $200.

A slightly personal question: Do you live with your partner? I ask only because there are some conditions that apply to getting what would be in effect a second TiVo. I don't have to, because for the moment, my SA fills the bill for me (subject to change, depending on new hardware improvements). Still, it's not unheard of for HTophiles to buy a new piece of equipment even while the existing piece functions quite well.

[edit by otto: again, removed quote of personal attack]

Posted by: KermitTheFrog

quote:
Still, it's not unheard of for HTophiles to buy a new piece of equipment even while the existing piece functions quite well.

hehe I know the feeling :-) Series 2 is sitting right above my Sony Tivo.. For really no good reason at all other then to have a new one :) mmmm... *drool*

Should be interesting to see what they have in store for 3.0 They should be able to dig themselves out of some of the loss issues with some of the value add services too.

KC

Posted by: bobcarn

quote:
Originally posted by Convert
bobcarn: I've been wrong before (notably beta), but I can't imagine TiVo going out of business. If anything, I would guess that it would be a sound investment to get lifetime for your partner's TiVo (lucky guy!) It seems inevitable that the subscription price will go up again. I'm continually glad that I got lifetime while it was still $200.

A slightly personal question: Do you live with your partner? I ask only because there are some conditions that apply to getting what would be in effect a second TiVo. I don't have to, because for the moment, my SA fills the bill for me (subject to change, depending on new hardware improvements). Still, it's not unheard of for HTophiles to buy a new piece of equipment even while the existing piece functions quite well.

Thanks. Yeah, we live together. I was never much of a TV person before. Most of my time would be spent on my computer. If I used my TV, it was mainly for DVDs (I really get a kick out of the surround sound system I have now!) or console gaming. But there were a few shows I liked. I got the Tivo because I wanted to record Survivor while I watched Friends this past season. I hated the idea of hooking up a VCR (or even having to buy another one) to do this because I always have problems with VCRs. I never set the timer right, or the tape runs out, or I erase something I want, or I don't have a tape..... you know what it's like.

Well, now that I have my Tivo (a Sony SA), I'm finding that I watch a lot more TV. I can't believe how much it's changed how I watch TV! Now as for my partner.... he's a TV-addict to begin with! He comes home, plops down onto the bed, and starts watching TV all night (man, is he boring or what!). I figure that he would get more of a kick out of this than I do! We get Comcast digital cable. I haven't had any problems with my SA Sony and the IR blaster (but I did set it for the slow transmission speed). I've just started reconsidering whether or not I want Comcast cable anymore. I just found out that they actually track which web sites every individual user goes to (with their internet access). I feel that it's just plain wrong and there's no reason to do it. None of the other ISPs track web usage per individual account, and they shouldn't either. Since I'm seriously considering DSL, I may just drop Comcast altogether and get DirecTV, or Dish, or something else. This won't be anything that happens very quickly, but it'll be something that I'll have to research.

Actually, I was looking for an excuse to get the new Series 2 Tivo that's out, and give him my old one. But I guess I should hold off because if I wind up going the DirecTV route, won't I be able to get a nicer unit built right into the receiver? Now that I'm hooked on my Tivo, I can't imagine not having it! I'm really hoping they do well as a company (I guess we all are) because I don't want to lose what I've just grown to love.

As for buying new equipment even though the old one still works.... I've been trying so hard to avoid doing that! I can't begin to tell you how much hardware and gadgets I have in this house! I know that I'll do it anyway, but now I just at least try to get some of my money's worth out of the old stuff before I relegate it to the has-been pile. And I only bought this Tivo just this past November.

Posted by: Dan203

Sorry guys no stock talk allowed!

Dan