TiVo Community Forums Archives - Last Word on NO service units?

TiVoCommunity.com
(c)opyright 1995-2005 All rights reserved
indexcheckTC
This area is a static history of posts in the TiVo Community Forum Archive.
This archive history was made for the simple indexing of search sites like Google.

Pages:1

Last Word on NO service units?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Maurice

With the price increase I will likely drop the monthly service on my second TiVo unit. This one gets little use and is only 14 hours. While the program guide is good to have, I rarely record with this one (I have a 30h with lifetime) at all.

I am planning on using it to record manually. This 14 hour unit was acquired prior to the policy change on requiring TiVo Service to be usable.

I did try searching but could not find a definitive word on what I can expect when using it to do manual recordings (other than Nag screens). And - how will the time be set if it has no service?

Thanks

Posted by: LBCABob

With 2.5.1 software, it can be used as a digital VCR - you just have to set up programs to record manually (either 1 time or repeating). You will get a "nag" screen when you hit the TiVo button (but only once in any 8 hour period?). It will call in once a week to check on its status (hoping you have re-sub'd, I guess).

Posted by: Syth

quote:
Originally posted by LBCABob
With 2.5.1 software, it can be used as a digital VCR - you just have to set up programs to record manually (either 1 time or repeating). You will get a "nag" screen when you hit the TiVo button (but only once in any 8 hour period?). It will call in once a week to check on its status (hoping you have re-sub'd, I guess).

And this call will also synch the clock. Well, at least it used to.

Posted by: TiVoholic

My Unsubbed Tivo Units remind me everytime I press the Tivo button to Subscribe!

Just Damn annoying! This should go away! It would be ok if they did it weekly, but I find no value in their service. I have 1 SA with Lifetime and it gets more sh*t f'ed up then right. Our cable company uses "channel sharing" where for 1/2 a day lifetime will be 19 then the other 1/2 it's TNN. They have about a dozen channels like that, Tivo screws up the recording because it "THINKS" it knows where the show will be. With the SA non-subbed I'm sure to get the recording.

It just irrates me that I have to put up with this Bull from Tivo. Make it work like my VCR. Would be even better if it used the VCR+ codes!

Posted by: d_anders

TiVoholic,

You're right. Sorry your cable service stinks, and they way it manages its channels seems to be the real problem. It's just not a good fit with TiVo (for the foreseeable future). I've heard of a cable companies that do what you are writing about on a couple of channels, but nothing to the degree you write about.

I find the TiVo service and guide data invaluable. Season Passes and Wishlists are the perfect way to get content without the work of managing channels and times.

When more basic pvr's (vcrs with hard drives) come out later this year, they'll probably be a better fit for you and your situation.

Good luck...

Posted by: glennf

I sure hope this is the last word!

I'm gonna hold you to it.

Posted by: arjay

quote:
Originally posted by d_anders

When more basic pvr's (vcrs with hard drives) come out later this year, they'll probably be a better fit for you and your situation.

A cheap non DBS (SA) DVR would be great, but I doubt it will arrive later this year. It's interesting that Mike Ramsay (TiVo's CEO) talks about combo DVR/DVD recorders as VCR replacements as a way of getting mass market acceptance in today's C/net article.

TiVo sets its clock during its daily call to TiVo. Inc. A daily call is very easy to initiate manually. Perhaps a manually initiated test call also sets the clock.

I have a TiVo which until a week and a half ago was unsubbed for over six months. I didn't want to let it upgrade from ver. 1.3 to ver. 2.5.1 without knowing what the changes would be. It was disconnected from the phoneline for the entire time. The clock kept accurate time within one minute for the entire 6 mos.+

Currently the TiVo is subbed for the current month. I even got service for $10. I'm happy with ver. 2.5.1 but find I still don't need the TiVo service and will discontinue it at the end of this month. When the TiVo is unsubbed again I will leave the phoneline disconnected until knowing details about TiVo's upcoming ver. 3.0.

I'd gladly pay TiVo $100. for using the TiVo unsubbed without nagscreens. Unfortunately that is not an option.

TiVo, Inc. has a policy for new "lifetime" subs. which I could have used: They're completely refundable if cancelled within the first month. Instead I had no problem with paying $10. to try out TiVo's service with ver. 2.5.1 even though I knew I was probably not interested in it longterm.

Posted by: zaknafein

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoholic
My Unsubbed Tivo Units remind me everytime I press the Tivo button to Subscribe!

Just Damn annoying! This should go away! It would be ok if they did it weekly, but I find no value in their service. I have 1 SA with Lifetime and it gets more sh*t f'ed up then right. Our cable company uses "channel sharing" where for 1/2 a day lifetime will be 19 then the other 1/2 it's TNN. They have about a dozen channels like that, Tivo screws up the recording because it "THINKS" it knows where the show will be. With the SA non-subbed I'm sure to get the recording.

It just irrates me that I have to put up with this Bull from Tivo. Make it work like my VCR. Would be even better if it used the VCR+ codes!

You're blaming TiVo for something completely out of its control. Your cable company is to blame. Show them how you feel by not giving them money. If you can switch to DBS, I guarantee you would be much happier.

Posted by: Philosofy

quote:
Originally posted by Maurice
With the price increase I will likely drop the monthly service on my second TiVo unit. This one gets little use and is only 14 hours. While the program guide is good to have, I rarely record with this one (I have a 30h with lifetime) at all.

I am planning on using it to record manually. This 14 hour unit was acquired prior to the policy change on requiring TiVo Service to be usable.

I did try searching but could not find a definitive word on what I can expect when using it to do manual recordings (other than Nag screens). And - how will the time be set if it has no service?

Thanks

I hate to sound harsh, but that's not TiVo's fault. You are paying your cable company for those channels, and, unless its a recorded suggestion, you are telling TiVo to record on that channel. It's your cable company yanking away stations you pay for. In this case, we (this forum) usually ask: can you get sattelite?

There's no excuse today for shared channels, other than a greedy cable company that needs to be fired.

Posted by: groovoid

As far as I understand, the companies that sell the hardware (Philips, Sony, AT&T, TiVo) actually lose money on every box sold. They are recompensed by TiVo, since TiVo assumes it will get revenue through the subscriptions of the boxes those companies sold.

So if you want a unit with no service, you are essentially asking TiVo to subsidize the cost of your hardware. They don't disallow this, which is nice, but why shouldn't they advertise for your dollars? I think the nag screens are a small price to pay if you get a DVR for these prices.

Posted by: arjay

quote:
Originally posted by groovoid

I think the nag screens are a small price to pay if you get a DVR for these prices.

Series 2 TiVo's are not supported by TiVo. Their costs of production are supposedly supported by their price. DirecTV will likely support Series 2 TiVo's for its service. Of course Series 2 TiVo's will not record without TiVo service.

TiVo chose to subsidize the cost of early SA's and offer the ability to record with or without TiVo service as part of its business plan to promote both TiVo and the TiVo service.

If someone has a earlier SA TiVo and uses it without service it's unlikely they're going to be persuaded by "nag" messages to subscribe. The "nag" screens are counter-productive, IMHO. If information about TiVo service is available in an accessible but not intrusive location within TiVo's menu's TiVo has made the strongest effective pitch for a user to subscribe.

Still, if TiVo, Inc. thinks it gains by having nagscreens such is their perogative.

I'd gladly pay $100. for a TiVo without nagscreens (and the ability to manually set the clock.) Perhaps TiVo, Inc. will see things my way someday, and make the minor software changes and accept the additional revenue generated. If not fine. I'm happy to use my TiVo unsubbed without a phone connection. Since I use it as a line-input recorder and don't use the tuner I've eliminated most of the "nag" messages anyway.

I like TiVo, Inc. They're a pioneer in the home entertainment field. Although I don't buy into their complete concept I still want them to succeed. I don't need to pay them but want to as a way for them to make additional revenue. Instead of $100. for annual service (discontinued, except when grandfathered), consider $100. for no service--and no phone network or server usage--but only for early SA's which record without service.

Mike Ramsay, TiVo's CEO, stated in yesterday's C/net article that $199. is the entry point to mass market acceptence. I doubt he was talking about TiVo's total cost including "lifetime" service. Most likely he was talking about TiVo's price plus an additional monthly service fee. I hope TiVo, Inc. keeps the currect "lifetime" service option. Probably "lifetime" service holders have ReplayTV to thank for the flat fee option.

Posted by: Mark Lopez

quote:
Originally posted by zaknafein

You're blaming TiVo for something completely out of its control.

quote:
Originally posted by Philosofy

I hate to sound harsh, but that's not TiVo's fault.

Well, I wouldn’t go that far. Most that frequent this board know the limitations, but nowhere on TiVo’s web site (that I could find) does it say it won’t work with all cable systems. As a matter of fact several statements lead one to believe that it should work. I never did like that TiVo wasn't more upfront about things like this. Note the phase 'all Cable'. It should say 'most Cable'.

From the TiVo web site:

Compatible with all Cable, Satellite (DBS), and Terrestrial Broadcast TV systems in the U.S.

Will TiVo work with my TV setup?
They also work with VCRs, DVDs, TV antennas, cable systems, and satellite systems.

automatically records every episode of a series, all season long, even if the date and timeslot change.

Posted by: bspahn

quote:
Most that frequent this board know the limitations, but nowhere on TiVo’s web site (that I could find) does it say it won’t work with all cable systems

It is little hard to find but in Customer Support:

quote:
12. Does TiVo support having two channels sharing a single channel number?

quote:
TiVo does not support having two channels share the same channel number (dual-duty channels). For example, some cable systems air programming from one network during the day and from another network in the evening on the same channel number. Because your DVR has no way of knowing what is being aired on the channel at that particular time, incorrect programs may be recorded from the shared channel.

Posted by: LiveBlues

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Lopez

Well, I wouldn’t go that far. Most that frequent this board know the limitations, but nowhere on TiVo’s web site (that I could find) does it say it won’t work with all cable systems. As a matter of fact several statements lead one to believe that it should work. I never did like that TiVo wasn't more upfront about things like this. Note the phase 'all Cable'. It should say 'most Cable'.

From the TiVo web site:

Compatible with all Cable, Satellite (DBS), and Terrestrial Broadcast TV systems in the U.S.

Will TiVo work with my TV setup?
They also work with VCRs, DVDs, TV antennas, cable systems, and satellite systems.

automatically records every episode of a series, all season long, even if the date and timeslot change.

Which cable system does TiVo not work with?

Posted by: arjay

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Lopez
....nowhere on TiVo’s web site (that I could find) does it say it won’t work with all cable systems. As a matter of fact several statements lead one to believe that it should work. I never did like that TiVo wasn't more upfront about things like this. Note the phase 'all Cable'. It should say 'most Cable'.

....automatically records every episode of a series, all season long, even if the date and timeslot change.

The problem with being very good is everyone wants you to be perfect.

Posted by: TiVoholic

quote:
I hate to sound harsh, but that's not TiVo's fault. You are paying your cable company for those channels, and, unless its a recorded suggestion, you are telling TiVo to record on that channel. It's your cable company yanking away stations you pay for. In this case, we (this forum) usually ask: can you get sattelite?

I had a satilite. Dish Network with PVR. (It's what got me hooked!). My cable company, as crappy as they may seem, gives us great High Speed Internet access and ran a special on TV and Internet for a very low price, therefore I switched back.

ANYWAY, this does not excuse the fact that while I have a crappy cable co, TiVo insists on nagging me to subscribe. I PERFER not to. I should not have to be bothered with nag screens all the time because of it.

I feel TiVo should work like my VCR. My VCR allows me to type in the channel names (Like NBC) to go along with the channel, then when I look at the program guide I see Wednesday - Ch 7 - NBC 10:00 PM. I know that this should be Law & Order, (Unless the president is on).

These should be simple tasks to preform for TiVo. I'm not asking for miracles or "freebies".

Posted by: c3

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoholic
ANYWAY, this does not excuse the fact that while I have a crappy cable co, TiVo insists on nagging me to subscribe. I PERFER not to. I should not have to be bothered with nag screens all the time because of it.

VCR companies make money on the hardware. TiVo makes money on the service.

Posted by: Philosofy

You could always get a Replay 4000 series (you have high speed internet.) Then you won't be bugged for subscribing. :D

Posted by: JimSpence

This may be a stupid question, but, couldn't his cable company supply Tribune a correct channel lineup that represents the dual channel usage? Then the TiVo would be able to record without problems.

Posted by: rickertk

I think the problem is that what Tribune does is get the data per channel from the broadcasters. Then, from the cable company, they get a list
of channel #s, and map the data from the broadcasters to the channel #s.
So when they have a shared channel, that no longer corresponds to a clear call on what data maps to a channel - it would need to be reassembled there, depending on what the cable company did. Not that it makes it impossible, but there's an extra step in there that they don't do at all currently, which is going to be a much larger hurdle.

Keith

Posted by: Skylooker

quote:
Originally posted by arjay

The problem with being very good is everyone wants you to be perfect.

You should crawl along the floor where there's not as much smoke!!

No seriously, I agree that this is not a Tivo problem and while it's not well documented, you can't fault Tivo for this. Personally, I got sick of my cable company and it's 1970's way of doing business and I got a DSS system. I know that may now be for everyone, but if you want to be rid of small lineups with shared channels, you have to dump cable.

Digital cable is all well and good but IMHO, it will never compare to the offerings of DSS.