TiVo Community Forums Archives - Enterprise and Time Travel

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Enterprise and Time Travel - Possible Spoilers
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Posted by: mostman

Ok - I just finished watching the season finale (I think it was the finale)

I don't know why I continue to watch - but I do. Just about every week, these two tools continue to not only insult ST fans - but also find new and inventive ways to spit in their faces.

This whole issue of time travel is really pissing me off. I watched a grand total of three episodes of Voyager (because I knew then what I should know now) - but from what I hear - they pulled the same stunts on that show.

My question is this - for someone who actually supports what they are doing on Enterprise - how you do you reason away ALL the inconsistencies that time travel on this show - a show that takes place BEFORE the others - causes? I mean - hell - if there was evidence of time travel back then - and even direct connections to it - why wasn't Kirk and for that matter, Picard, a master of time travel - why did he barely even TALK about it?

I just don't get it. Perhaps I am rambling - but this show really makes me mad. Is it just that they can't think of stories that don't involve time travel? Or are they doing this on purpose? If it was ONE episode and done - I could understand. But the whole premise of the show so far is time travel. Not only that, their biggest nemesis is a 'time traveler.'

I am not a happy camper.

-Mike

Posted by: mostman

See thats the thing - the episodes are occasionally 'well done' It's just that, as a true ST fan - there is no way I can enjoy them. Sometimes I wish I could just forget everything about ST - and watch one episode of Enterprise without bias.

-Mike

Posted by: retrodog

You guys, like many others, are taking a TV show too seriously. You need to get out in the real world and experience reality more. That way you wouldn't get it so confused with this fantasy world that we all know and love (TV) :D

It's all a crock. Learn how to appreciate it or be miserable. It's your decision. JMO

Posted by: retrodog

[quote]Ah yes, the "get a life" reply. Never saw THAT before.[quote]Nope, not quite. This is the "don't get your real life confused with the imaginary one on TV" reply. But it was also coupled with the "you choose to make yourself happy or miserable" response as well. Sort of a Zen thing.

Posted by: retrodog

Wah wah wah.

And the whole "technical flaw on a Star Trek show" is something that you've NEVER heard before?

Posted by: mostman

quote:
Originally posted by retrodog
Wah wah wah.

And the whole "technical flaw on a Star Trek show" is something that you've NEVER heard before?

Its more than a technical flaw - it is a flaw in the whole premise. I wish I didn't get so worked up about it - but I do. Star Trek is important to me man - I don't like to see people shatting all over it - like the two maroons in charge so often do.

-Mike

Posted by: mitchrc

Shatting maroons? :)

Seriously. You are happy to overlook all of the massive flaws that the concept of warp drive presents and yet flip out about other things?

Instead of criticizing the current producers tell me what specific steps you would take to make Enterprise better. What storylines to you want to see?

Posted by: net114

Well, if they DIDNT have time travel and many other "trek" things on the show- what would we be watching? It's pretty inevitable that these things are going to come up if they are doing a "prequel" show. Otherwise, we'd have a 2001 boring movie type show just flying around space.

On that note, how do you figure on NEW aliens or technology/solutions that we've never seen before? If ENT comes up with some new idea to solve something, or meets some totally new species (Suliban) why didn't we know about it in the later shows? (Of course we know the answer in the real world!)

The writers are damned either way, which is why they probably should have done something truly different-- like had a show just focusing on Klingons. Even a Sulu show, or just let Riker take command of his own ship would have been the better choice and go from there. (Frakes has said he would have done it...to late now!)

Paramount was to demanding in wanting something "different" than Voyager-- and the creators were to caught up in doing something "new".
The REAL culprit is that during Voyager they would blow up the bridge, and it would be freshly painted the next week-- all 75 years from earth. A TNG type show could have been VERY well done...if they just dumped all their writing staff from Voyager.

Posted by: Ereth

There are many aliens we could've met that we don't have intimate details on, that would not have conflicted with anything in TOS.

The bringing to the forefront of the Andorians was a good start. Go back to "Journey to Babel" and look at all the aliens in that episode. All are accepted and normal by Kirks time. We could see first contact and ongoing contact with any or all of them and not violate continuity.

We shouldn't have things that Kirk/Spock don't think of as possible or normal, like cloaked ships or time travel (or holodecks). There's a lot of room for things pre-TOS, if someone who actually cared about the franchise was doing it.

Posted by: MirclMax

Okay .. I'm a fan .. I'm happy to watch whatever they toss my way .. :)

I'm going to offer a *possible* explanation to the original poster's question about time travel in ENT and the series we've already seen.

Let me touch on one part before I go into that though .. "Or are they doing this on purpose?" Yes, they are very much so doing it on purpose .. the "Temporal Cold War" was a possibility they thought of as an entire show, and they decided to just work it in as a subplot to the prequel. Much like the borg kept popping up on Voyager, I'd say we're likely to keep seeing temporal issues ..

Now .. how do they reconcile things. This is what I think they are essentially doing, but please understand I hope not .. its not what I would want them to do.

The thing with the temporal cold war is that we're getting a 31st century perspective. We have these people breaking the accord and messing around in history. Thus, that means there was a history that existed and made its way up to the 31st century that the people in that time knew about where certain things didn't happen (like Archer's crew apparently killing everyone on that planet). I believe that the most plausible explanation is that the timeline that the 31st century people are saying is being tampered with .. is the same timeline that we watched on TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY (or some combination thereof) ..

In other words, when Kirk and Spock talk about time travel .. and if they do say how theoretical it is .. in their history .. at the time they were saying it .. the NX-01 may have not had any encounters with time travelers and thus nothing would have been known.

Again, while I dislike the obivious "easy out" that would allow the show's producers to bypass continuity as they are essentially travelling down a new timeline ... I think that's basically what the ramifications of this "Temporal Cold War" plot are.

Posted by: eaglecrest

Personally I like the time travel themes. My video collection contains 54 movies and TV shows that are related to time travel (not counting the two Star Trek (The Original Series) episodes that TiVO is recording today. My wish list contains just about every term for 'time travel' that I could think of and it is doing a good job of recording what I want.

As a side note, I have recently converted all my saved TV shows to the Video CD format. This format is about equivalent to VHS quality and a CD will hold 74 minutes of video which will play back on my regular DVD player. This is a lot more convenient than having to fast forward a 6 hour VHS tape trying to locate a particular show.

Posted by: TreborPugly

The producers of Enterprise are just doing everything they can to please their audience. What's more fun for Trekkies (ers) than finding flaws in new shows?

Posted by: Uther

Enterprise is written by morons for morons. ST hasn't had anything really good since TNG. Some of DS9 was good. Most of Voyager was crap. I guess that makes me the biggest moron for watching this crap. :(

Oh, how I wish we had an intelligent Sci-Fi series like Babylon 5... Those were the days.

Posted by: HTH

So how is he going to get back? Find a time machine protected from the changes in the timeline by the Washu Effect?

Posted by: badcrc

quote:
Originally posted by mostman
My question is this - for someone who actually supports what they are doing on Enterprise - how you do you reason away ALL the inconsistencies that time travel on this show - a show that takes place BEFORE the others - causes? I mean - hell - if there was evidence of time travel back then - and even direct connections to it - why wasn't Kirk and for that matter, Picard, a master of time travel - why did he barely even TALK about it?

I love Enterprise. I never cared much for the original ST, TNG was great, DS9 kinda went down the tubes for me after a while, and Voyager I got sick of real quick. Anyway, about your time travel statements, in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Kirk & crew were able to go back in time using brute force methods, so it wasn't unheard of. Also wasn't there some more time traveling by our good buddy Kirk in Star Trek: Generations?

Either way, you can't expect everything to be consistent between series, and possibly Archer never made a log entry that referred to time travel, or maybe by the time Kirk rolled around it was all a rumor.

Posted by: loopey

Eh you guys take this show waay too seriously. We don't know how this ends. They could always wipe out the time travel stuff - make it so it never happened. Doesn't Enterprise still have the data that the crewman gave them that Archer was supposed to erase (I don't remember him erasing it - he could have put off that task until later and never gotten around to it) and also the Suliban disks? Enterprise could use these to make a time machine, get Archer, and stop the shuttle from being blown up which started the whole chain of events in the first place.

Eh I like this show, it's soo much better than that crappy DS9. I tried and I tried to watch it, but it was just soo bad.

Posted by: mostman

There is PLENTY to talk about without getting into time travel.

Listen - these guys made a conscious decision to do a show in the PAST. A show about the past should be about the development of SF technology that LEADS to the technology we see in Kirks time. As it stands right now, there is nothing Kirk will end up having that Archer doesn't already have. Besides a faster engine and a tad bit better weapons and shields - the cliche 'these things get better with time' - where is the creativity?

Some episodes are well done - in some, they start talking about the transporters and how much they suck - or they show the beginnings of force field science. This is good stuff - this is stuff that LEADS to what we see in Kirks time. Jumping around time like a bunch of idiots fighting an enemy whose name Kirk or Picard never whisper - and a race that future humans have NEVER heard of is stupid. Sure - I suppose in the end the the future people will flip a switch and everyone will forget what happened. Then again, maybe Bakula will wake up in confession box in a priests outfit and say 'Oh Boy'

If they wanted to do what they are doing - they should have started a new show. A show about early human space travel. And leave everything ST out of it - by a mile. But, oh wait, without the name 'Enterprise' nobody would watch this crap.

-Mike

Posted by: Hunter Green

We also saw Trip and Reed invent the ship's phaser cannons, and we know the force field is not only going to be used in the brig, but also on the ship itself. And Hoshi is busy bringing the universal translator up to TOS standards. Their phasers definitely could use improvement, but we saw the first time they used stun settings. The transporter definitely has room for future developments. I wonder if someone's going to invent those little three-sided TVs?

Of course, the Enterprise tricorders already look more advanced than TOS's, though less advanced than today's best palmtops. That's a recurring conundrum: why are TOS's communicators bulkier than today's cell phones? Why do Archer and Kirk have to walk over to the wall and press a button to answer a hail when you can get a VR-activated intercom at Radio Shack?

Re: "Oh boy" -- was I the only one who imagined him saying that when Daniels tried to explain to him how he'd leaped into himself in the past? Poor Bakula, he finally gets a second major genre role and they still have him trying to convince skeptics time travel is possible.

Posted by: MirclMax

quote:
Originally posted by Hunter Green
[B why are TOS's communicators bulkier than today's cell phones? [/B]

They are no where near as bulky as modern day satelite phones. Just focus on that, it makes it go down easier.

Posted by: stormsweeper

quote:
Originally posted by loopey
Eh you guys take this show waay too seriously. We don't know how this ends. They could always wipe out the time travel stuff - make it so it never happened. Doesn't Enterprise still have the data that the crewman gave them that Archer was supposed to erase (I don't remember him erasing it - he could have put off that task until later and never gotten around to it) and also the Suliban disks? Enterprise could use these to make a time machine, get Archer, and stop the shuttle from being blown up which started the whole chain of events in the first place.

Other than Enterprise about to be fired on by about a zillion Suliban ships.

I smell an interesting use of the main deflector coming up.

Posted by: stormsweeper

"Hey Johnny, mind if I eat your cat?"

"Porthos is not a cat!"

Posted by: stormsweeper

They should kill this show and salvage the only good character in a spin off:

"Dr. Phlox Does it All"

where the good doctor goes and meets new species and chuckles a lot. :)

Posted by: Hunter Green

quote:
They are no where near as bulky as modern day satelite phones. Just focus on that, it makes it go down easier.

That buys us another three years.... :D

Posted by: BrettStah

OK, I've seen most of the Enterprise episodes, and have a couple of questions and a comment:

1) Does Star Fleet know about the "temporal cold war", or is Archer keeping that a secret for some reason to himself and a few close subordinates?

2) Did the Ferengi run-in get reported to Star Fleet? I thought they were an unknown species when Picard and crew ran into them.

3) If Enterprise is 150 years pre-Kirk, it does make sense that some knowledge, either relatively unimportant or very classified, could not filter down to Kirk.

I wonder how much top-secret stuff from 150 years ago in the Navy is common knowledge to today's captains of Navy ships. Does a typical commander of an aircraft carrier know much about the Barbary pirates, for example.

Posted by: jlb

The Season opener will probably involve Kirk who happens to come back out of the Nexus (sure, we think he died, but those pesky writers....) to go forward in time to save Archer....

Posted by: RGM1138

quote:
Originally posted by loopey
Eh I like this show, it's soo much better than that crappy DS9. I tried and I tried to watch it, but it was just soo bad.

Wait. A woman who watches Trek (any variant)? Any more at home like you? :)

Bob