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ReplayTV's "service-based" pricing model. What changed?
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Posted by: walters

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ti...&Symbol=US:SBLU

OK, it was talked about a few months ago, and now it's here. The 4500 series, with Replay's new "service-based" pricing model. Interesting, though, is "In addition, there is a mandatory, one-time service activation fee of $250 per each new ReplayTV 4500 product purchased". So basically, nothing changed, except now you get to see how much of the price is hardware and how much is service. I really thought they were going to offer a montly option, too.

:confused:

Posted by: emory

what is that, a joke?

what premium service do they perform to demand that high a price tag?

Posted by: walters

Yes, that surprised me, too. I thought the 4500 was supposed to be the mass market Replay :confused:

Posted by: jgickler

It looks like they just took their 4000 models, activated the modem and called them a 4500. Basically the pricing is the same as the 4000 models, except the service is now separate. Until the offer a monthly or yearly rate, I can't see any advatage. This is definatley not the inexpensive model they had said it would be. It is just a repackaged 4000.

Posted by: John494900

Monthly will be added later according to this article:

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-892365.html

Posted by: AndyK

It's been posted in the Replay forum that the monthly fee is expected "later this year". Basically, the 4500 series machines are the 4000 series with a modem, it's Replay's return to the retail stream with Amazon among others selling the units. What happened to the "most inexpensive pvr's yet" claims made several months ago? I guess they're in the same drawer with the "no service fee" claims. No matter, Tivo's almost exclusive reign over the retail SA market is over. Tivo's recent UK screw up and its associated bad press along with the publicized image that SB fights to keep customer info private while Tivo sells it make this very good timing for Replay's reemergence into the retail market. Viva la competition!

Posted by: samo

So basically for extra $150 you get commercial skip and broadband. Did I get it right?

Posted by: Ciannait

quote:
Originally posted by samo
So basically for extra $150 you get commercial skip and broadband. Did I get it right?

... Both of which can be had in version 3.0 of the TiVo service anyway. :rolleyes:

Posted by: smak

Are people stupid enough to think that $450 + $250 is cheaper than $700?

-smak-

Posted by: walters

quote:
Originally posted by smak
Are people stupid enough to think that $450 + $250 is cheaper than $700?

-smak-

I don't think you really want to know :D

Posted by: arjay

quote:
Originally posted by samo
So basically for extra $150 you get commercial skip and broadband. Did I get it right?

You get CA, video file sending capabilities, a one year warrantee on labor, and a few other significant but nitpicky features (which will be dreadfully important for some users.)

SB has issued a number of conflicting and confusing announcements regarding its new product(s). They are seemingly as unfocused as TiVo, Inc. is perhaps overly focused.

Now that we know what their first offering is it still will create increased interest in the DVR category. Perhaps lower prices will result. At least one on-line retailer is already offering RTV4504's for $420.

Posted by: Philosofy

quote:
Originally posted by Ciannait

... Both of which can be had in version 3.0 of the TiVo service anyway. :rolleyes:

No, not really. The commercial skip edits out commercials on playback. Its not 30 sec skip, which they had already.

Posted by: DBCooper

quote:
Originally posted by AndyK
It's been posted in the Replay forum that the monthly fee is expected "later this year". Basically, the 4500 series machines are the 4000 series with a modem, it's Replay's return to the retail stream with Amazon among others selling the units. What happened to the "most inexpensive pvr's yet" claims made several months ago? I guess they're in the same drawer with the "no service fee" claims. No matter, Tivo's almost exclusive reign over the retail SA market is over. Tivo's recent UK screw up and its associated bad press along with the publicized image that SB fights to keep customer info private while Tivo sells it make this very good timing for Replay's reemergence into the retail market. Viva la competition!

Andy, you are amazing! Somehow you managed to interpret the complete surrender of ReplayTV (they abandoned their retail model and adopted the TiVo model) as some kind of ReplayTV victory!!!!!!

Bad press? You haven't seen bad press yet. Wait until ReplayTV can't lie about "no subscription fee" and reviewers concentrate on features. Bye, bye Replay.

Posted by: arjay

quote:
Originally posted by DBCooper
....Bye, bye Replay.

I doubt that. But it will be interesting to see competition again. I bet it'll be good for the DVR product category; for both TiVo and ReplayTV; and great for their customers!

Posted by: AndyK

quote:
Originally posted by DBCooper
Andy, you are amazing! Somehow you managed to interpret the complete surrender of ReplayTV (they abandoned their retail model and adopted the TiVo model) as some kind of ReplayTV victory!!!!!!

Bad press? You haven't seen bad press yet. Wait until ReplayTV can't lie about "no subscription fee" and reviewers concentrate on features. Bye, bye Replay.

I see this as a "surrender" at all, it's an admittance that in order to compete in the open retail market, they have to match the market leader Tivo's pricing structure. I'm not giving Replay (SB) any claim to victory, but with Tivo's recent gaffs, it does work out to be good timing for them to reemerge on the retail scene. IMHO,Tivo succeeded (somewhat ) in the face of quite a few screw ups lately, including the UK thing and constant supply problems. Tivo's image as a small company who cares about the consumer is tarnishing at an astonishing rate, something to expect as they grow. SB OTH, because of their recent publicized court battles, comes off as the champion of the customer. It's just an image thing, but it's generating positive press for Replay and it'll sell some units IMO. As for saying "Bye, bye Replay", I highly doubt it. Replay was on the sidelines for a while, but they're back in the game. I think that Tivo's software is superior, but Replay is not without its compelling points. Depending on how things shake out, because of Tivo's BB exclusive, Replay might even end up with most of the other electronic B&M's all to themselves. I don't think Replay is going to surpass Tivo in sales anytime soon, but I do welcome the competition.

Posted by: DBCooper

quote:
Originally posted by AndyK
IMHO, Tivo succeeded (somewhat) in the face of quite a few screw ups lately, including the UK thing and constant supply problems. Tivo's image as a small company who cares about the consumer is tarnishing at an astonishing rate, something to expect as they grow.

Your point of view, but not mine. The UK flap was a classic case of a lot of brainless people fuming over a topic they knew nothing about. And the reputation of journalists can hardly be tarnished more than it already is. As for the supply shortage, that can't possibly be construed as caring nothing about the consumer. "Hey customer, we hate you so we are going to cut off our nose?" Get real.

quote:
SB OTH, because of their recent publicized court battles, comes off as the champion of the customer. It's just an image thing, but it's generating positive press for Replay and it'll sell some units IMO.

Again, it's a point of view. My take is that they are idiots for battling windmills. Surely a company has better things to do than risk their financial future that way. I want my supplier to stay in business and I don't think it's a big deal if I can't make direct digital (D/D) copies of the recordings on my TiVo. (Not to be confused with D/A/D copies).

Posted by: DrStrange

quote:
Originally posted by DBCooper
The UK flap was a classic case of a lot of brainless people fuming over a topic they knew nothing about.

Ah, so now those who got annoyed at their Tivo doing things they didn't want it to do at the expense of things they did want it to do (examples have been given, so don't spout that "you didn't lose any control" crap) are not only overly sensitive whiners who aren't willing to make obligatory sacrifices to keep Tivo afloat, now they're stupid as well. Sure, they actually saw they forced recording they're bitching about and you haven't (yet), but you're the expert on what should annoy them, and they're the ones who don't know what they're talking about. Yeah.

Tivo seems to be at least somewhat understanding of the genuine problems with this promotion. Too bad I can't say the same for some of Tivos more militant apologists.

Posted by: DBCooper

Easy, DrStrange. We are talking about TV, right? UK TV at that. It's inconceivable to me that a flap of that magnitude is justified for a product that is essentially unknown to the public. Let's get some perspective! If journalists want to provide a real service, they can start by explaining DVRs/PVRs to the public. I tire of "sky is falling" expose' writers and people who give them credence.

Posted by: stormsweeper

quote:
Originally posted by walters
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ti...&Symbol=US:SBLU

OK, it was talked about a few months ago, and now it's here. The 4500 series, with Replay's new "service-based" pricing model. Interesting, though, is "In addition, there is a mandatory, one-time service activation fee of $250 per each new ReplayTV 4500 product purchased". So basically, nothing changed, except now you get to see how much of the price is hardware and how much is service. I really thought they were going to offer a montly option, too.

:confused:

The difference is, electroncs stores will now stock the systems, as they're not laying down the $250 anymore.

But what's insulting is the prices for the "higher" models. The 320 hour version w/ service will come to $2000!

Posted by: Ciannait

quote:
Originally posted by Philosofy

No, not really. The commercial skip edits out commercials on playback. Its not 30 sec skip, which they had already.

I don't think I'd want it editing out commercials for me. I remember how effective that wasn't on VCRs.

Posted by: jones07

My replay 4000 Works better then 95% for me. as
far as commercial skip goes.

Posted by: arjay

SB is a little less sanguine about CA in their FAQ description:

http://www.replaytv.com/video/repla...4000_faq.asp#29

quote:

Q. How reliable is the Commercial Advance feature in detecting and skipping commercials?
A. Although we use algorithms that yield 96% detection rates in controlled lab testing, in real world use, we are experiencing between 70% to 90% accuracy in detecting and skipping shows.

Please note that the Commercial Advance feature is greatly influenced by signal source, channel, and program. There could be instances where 100% of the commercials are skipped in a particular program while none of the commercials are skipped in another. Also, there could be instances where a portion of the programming is inadvertently skipped. If this occurs or if not all of the commercials are skipped in a particular commercial segment, you can simply press the CA Skip button on the remote which toggles Commercial Advance On or Off and press the QuickSkip button or Instant Replay on the remote depending on which way you need to go.

Posted by: jones07

Hey your going to nic pick me over 5% ? :)

Posted by: smak

The 5% it doesn't work, what does it do, not zap the commercials, or zap the commercials and the next 10 mins of programming until the next commercial break?

-smak-

Posted by: Gai-jin

Interesting info from /. on this one...

quote:

ReplayTV 4500: No Hacking, or Else
Posted by michael on Tuesday June 04, @05:10AM
from the stuff-to-avoid dept.
mcglk writes "I was happy to see that SonicBlue had released its new generation of ReplayTV, the 4500. And it was $250 cheaper than the 4000. Except for that $250 �one-time service activation fee.� Worse is the agreement that goes along with it. Term 1A basically says, �No more hacking.� Term 1G says that they can enable or disable anything they want without notice. And Term 2C says that if someone even alleges you are infringing on copyright, you can be shut down with no notice, no recourse, and there's nothing you can do about it�the agreement indemnifies them completely. I was really looking forward to getting one of these, too." Under that agreement, SonicBlue claims the right to destroy your device when you connect for updates.

Steve

Posted by: arjay

DrStrange already dealt with this issue here

quote:

You all know I hate Replays boxes, but I'm posting this so somebody else doesn't do it with a more inflammatory topic title and rant about Replays terms without bothering to notice that Tivos license agreement says pretty much the same stuff. It's all SOP. What matters is what Replay/Tivo chooses to enforce, and in the case of the 4500 that's not known yet.

So debate away but lets' try and be a little more intelligent about it than the editors and posters at Slashdot, k?

Posted by: jones07

Does not Tivo have the same service agreement ?
The word over at the replaytv forum is that as
far an hacking to a larger HD . this service agreement will not be enforced .

smak: that 5% of not working .you will get 5 seconds or so of the last commercial before the show you watching is viewable.

Posted by: arjay

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
that 5% of not working....you will get 5 seconds or so of the last commercial before the show you watching is viewable.

Have you run across instances of these problems? (quoted from ReplayTV's FAQ's.)

quote:
There could be instances where 100% of the commercials are skipped in a particular program while none of the commercials are skipped in another. Also, there could be instances where a portion of the programming is inadvertently skipped.

Posted by: jones07

On the big networks NBC CBS and ABC . At times
looks to be trying to defeat the CS of VCR's an replaytv pvr's. But I hardly ever watch the big 3
networks just sports and national news. Maybe
thats why I get 90 to 95%. It works for me.

Replaytv 3020
Replaytv 4040
Tivo DSR-6000

Posted by: feldon23

quote:
in real world use, we are experiencing between 70% to 90% accuracy in detecting and skipping shows.

I'll be interested when they get closer to 0% skipping shows and closer to 100% skipping commercials!! :rolleyes: