Warning: include() [function.include]: URL file-access is disabled in the server configuration in /home/avsforum/archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/archive_functions.php on line 31
Warning: include(http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/header.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be found in /home/avsforum/archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/archive_functions.php on line 31
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening 'http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/header.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/avsforum/archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/archive_functions.php on line 31
Pages:1
Low Voltage Outdoor Lighting Question
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: bareyb
I'm trying to figure out why our Low Voltage outdoor lighting doesn't work in the back yard. I tried changing the lightbulb in the first one and no go. The other day I measured 12 volt coming off the transformer (didn't measure the amperage yet). Does anyone know if these things are wired in Parallel? In other words if the first one doesn't work does it "take out" the rest of them (like the old fashioned Xmas tree lights did)?
I'm assuming they wouldn't set them up like that but I had to ask... Any trouble shooting tips for these things? I have no idea what brand they are. I'm thinking maybe it's the transformer since ALL of them don't work. It does measure twelve volt but I don't know how much Amperage it is supposed to put out. Anyway, just trying to get them working. Any trouble shooting tips appreciated! :)
Posted by: Rcrew
Guess you put in a known good bulb when you did your swap test. But you said you checked the voltage at the transformer output. Did you measure it at the socket?
Posted by: bareyb
quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
Guess you put in a known good bulb when you did your swap test. But you said you checked the voltage at the transformer output. Did you measure it at the socket?
I haven't yet. I'm going to have to wait until day time to try that. I suppose that would be the next logical step. I did just check out the Amperage and it's putting out about 1.5 Amps right now which is on par with the rating. If no voltage at the fixture then would you suggest I run a long jumper wire from the transformer to the first fixture or try swapping out the transformer itself with the one from the front yard? How many wires are on the bottom of the fixtures for these things?
Posted by: Rcrew
I haven't looked that hard at mine to know about the wiring. If you don't get any readings at the first fixture, just seems to me like the problem is between the transformer and that fixture. Is the cable buried? How deep? Did you look at the connection between the 1st fixture and the cable?
I think you're right though, the next logical step is to check at the fixture.
You could swap the transformers, but if you got readings on the output side, why swap?
Posted by: MarkofT
Do the lights have screw terminals or do you just crimp the light onto the wire? If you crimp onto the wire then one bulb being out won't take out the whole string.
Since you have amperage then you have current flowing. Since no lights light it sounds like you have a short somewhere.
Posted by: bareyb
quote:
Originally posted by MarkofT
Do the lights have screw terminals or do you just crimp the light onto the wire? If you crimp onto the wire then one bulb being out won't take out the whole string.
Since you have amperage then you have current flowing. Since no lights light it sounds like you have a short somewhere.
I believe they are the "crimp on" style but I won't know for sure til I dig one up. I just moved here last year and they were already istalled. According to their website they *should* be crimp on. The circuit breaker isn't tripping on the transformer. I'm thinking this has to be a complete break in the main wire (hence ALL the lights going down) OR a bad transformer that is putting out twelve volt but not enough juice to power the lights? It's the only thing that I can think of that would explain why ALL of the lights are down... What do you think?
Posted by: Mark Lopez
They are wired in parallel. If they are all out, then I would suspect a break in the line before the first light.
Posted by: MarkofT
Did they mention how long they had been in place before you bought the house? I'm thinking they were a quick install by someone who bid very low. It's amazing how many times those little inexpensive jobs will up the price of a house.
"Look. They cared enough to put in outdoor lighting."
Or I could just be a jaded cynic. :shrug: :D
Posted by: DMHinCO
A strange thing happens to mine. Where I have a splice, the wire corrodes horribly and turns into green powder. I have tried sealing it in waterproof wrap and everything. Every time I fix it, it lasts for a couple weeks and then dies again. So I think that gives more creedence to the "break in the wire" theory. Good luck.
Posted by: MarkofT
Get scotchlock connectors. They have a gel that the wires stick into and this should keep the wires from corroding. Phone companies use them all the time.
Posted by: DanT
I haven't really looked at the wiring of these, but it seems entirely plausible that a gopher or other rodent could have chewed through the wire between your transformer and first light.
And you want them wired in parallel, which they most likely are. It's series wiring that older X-mas lights used, and when one went down, they all went down.
Posted by: steuert
Almost certainly you will find a break in the line between the transformer and the first light.
These lights are wired in parallel, i.e., if one bulb burns out the rest stay lit. However, if one does burn out, the voltage to each of the remaining lights increases, thereby shortening its life. Therefore it is important to check the lights frequently and replace any burned-out bulbs promptly.
Posted by: bareyb
Well the good news is the main voltage wire is intact to the first light. The bad news is all they did was strip the ends, twist the wires together and wrap electrical tape around the connections... Yep you heard me right. So of course they are corroded as heck. Any suggestions on some good water tight connectors for these things?
Posted by: Rcrew
quote:
Originally posted by MarkofT
Get scotchlock connectors. They have a gel that the wires stick into and this should keep the wires from corroding. Phone companies use them all the time.
Here's a recommendation from this thread. I haven't used these, but they sound interesting.
You could also shop/ask at your local building supply place, YMMV.
I guess I would try them, or try shrink tube over soldered connections.
Posted by: bigray327
Ya know, Barey, I think the lights just go bad after a while. I moved into a ten year old house and one by one, the sidewalk lights were failing like yours (no apparent reason). Finally I just replaced them all, since they're only about four bucks each at Home Depot. Now they all work just fine. I think they're just not made to last that long. And besides, there's something to be said for a super clean light, as opposed to one that's been sitting out in the weather for ten years.
If you want an exact reason, I think the crimp-on connectors build up corrosion that precludes electrical contact.
Posted by: MarkofT
3M makes a lot of buriable wire connections. Phone companies used these all the time. I pick mine up at Lowe's but you should be able to find other sources being a cable guy. :D
Posted by: dsmdriver
quote:
Originally posted by bareyb
I did just check out the Amperage and it's putting out about 1.5 Amps right now which is on par with the rating.
As an electrical engineer, this puzzles me. You can only have amperage if you have a closed circuit. This either means that it is lighting up a light somewhere or you have a short.
Just to be sure you tested it right: When you measure voltage, you put the two probes across the output of the transformer. When you measure current, you have to break one wire coming out of the transformer, and you put one probe on each side of the break. If you put an ampmeter across the two outputs of the transformer like you do for voltage, you've just shorted out the transformer and all you're reading is it's dead short current which tells you nothing about the wires.
Posted by: Saturn
I'd say get out the soldering iron (a heavy duty gun type for this stuff), solder up the connections, and then douse them in silicone and stuff them back into the ground. Even if the silicone doesn't work, the connections will stay good because of the solder.
Unless you want to go buy some special crimp-on stuff...
Posted by: Mark Lopez
Might be less hassle to just buy new ones. I recently bought a big set at HD for about $35.00
Posted by: steuert
Bigray -
The reason your lights were failing "one by one" is that each burned-out bulb increased the voltage to the remaining lights until one of them also failed, which further increased the voltage to the remaining bulbs, etc. After 2 or 3 bulbs of a 10 bulb string have burned out, the rest will probably go in a matter of days.
The way to avoid this and save the $4/bulb is to check frequently and promptly replace any burned out bulbs.
Posted by: bigray327
No, no, no, that's not it. I checked the bulbs, of course. The lights simply stopped working, obviously due to a bad connection. Replacing them is simple, so that's what I did. Thanks, though.
Posted by: Dan the TiVo Man
I'm afraid the problem may be more serious. Recently there has been a rash of "12 volt line hacking". Apparently, neighbors are hacking into 12 volt lines in order to drive their outdoor lighting for free. It's sad when you can't even trust your neighbors but you'll need to confront them ASAP.
They will probably deny it at first but just keep hounding them till they come clean.
Posted by: bluenoise
quote:
Originally posted by dsmdriver
As an electrical engineer, this puzzles me. You can only have amperage if you have a closed circuit. This either means that it is lighting up a light somewhere or you have a short.
Just to be sure you tested it right: When you measure voltage, you put the two probes across the output of the transformer. When you measure current, you have to break one wire coming out of the transformer, and you put one probe on each side of the break. If you put an ampmeter across the two outputs of the transformer like you do for voltage, you've just shorted out the transformer and all you're reading is it's dead short current which tells you nothing about the wires.
Exactly! I was about to make the same post. At this point, the transformer may be blown out from testing the current across its output (shorting it). It would be a good idea to check the voltage again to make sure you're still getting the 12 volts.
A couple of weeks ago, I connected my digital meter across my car battery's terminals to monitor the charging (door left open all night drained it too low to start the car). It didn't seem to be charging so I was going to check the charging current. Like an idiot, I moved the leads on the meter to the 10 Amp (unfused :mad:) socket before disconnecting them from the battery terminals. It took about two seconds for me to think, "Oops!" but only one second to let the magic smoke out of every opening in my meter's case. Oh well. It was about 12 years old and I wanted to get a new one anyway. The new one is fused-protected.
bluenoise
Posted by: bareyb
quote:
When you measure current, you have to break one wire coming out of the transformer, and you put one probe on each side of the break. If you put an ampmeter across the two outputs of the transformer like you do for voltage, you've just shorted out the transformer and all you're reading is it's dead short current which tells you nothing about the wires.
quote:
Exactly! I was about to make the same post. At this point, the transformer may be blown out from testing the current across its output (shorting it).
Nah. My transformers fine. Believe it or not I do know how to measure amperage. I must have picked it up somewhere along the way... :D
Warning: include() [function.include]: URL file-access is disabled in the server configuration in /home/avsforum/archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/archive_functions.php on line 37
Warning: include(http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/footer.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be found in /home/avsforum/archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/archive_functions.php on line 37
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening 'http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/footer.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/avsforum/archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/archive_functions.php on line 37
vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2013,
Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vB Easy Archive Final ©2000 - 2013
- Created by Stefan "Xenon" Kaeser
Modified by Adam J. de Jaray