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Come on everyone-Let's avoid the Troll Traps
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Posted by: unixadm

This used to be a great place to come and gather information, provide information and talk out our TiVo experience.....but lately, it has gotten unbearable.

There are way too many threads about the TiVo ads, and many of them are started by trolls...

1. If a thread is started by a new member with only a couple of posts, and it starts with "I'm never buying a TiVo because...", or "TiVo is doing something illegal", or "I'm suing TiVo", or "I'm absolutely outraged", it is clearly a Troll thread who's purpose is to do nothing but start problems.

2. If within a thread, someone posts a lot of crap to start trouble, flames or controversy, it is clearly a Troll post.

LETS NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

The problem is that people legitimately come here to seek information on TiVo...there is even a link from TiVo's website to here. If we keep these ridiculous threads going, then someone who knows no better will see them and will not consider purchasing TiVo.....that is VERY bad for TiVo....which is VERY bad for us. If these go on too long, TiVo will lose potential customers and will have to come up with even more ways to make money...or go out of business.

I understand that there are legitimate concerns over advertising, but some people that are against it are creating additional usernames and posting FUD to confuse the subject and make things look worse.

We have to accept what is....fine, voice your legitimate concern or complaint, but when the threads start getting out of hand, it is time to stop.

I, for one, am not going to post in any more threads about the advertising, and I suggest that everyone else do the same. TiVo is fully aware of peoples concerns and TiVoPony has already addressed some of them in the sticky note at the top. Re-Hashing this over and over and making it look worse than it is (making it look like the end of the world is here), is not doing anyone here any good and is counter-productive to what we have been trying to accomplish on this forum.

If things don't change, I may find myself not coming here as often...I am sick of the crap being thrown out on this subject.

Moderators: Since you already have a sticky note about this, how about we close all threads pertaining to the ads and allow no more? None of them are doing anything productive here and just serve to make TiVo look bad to potential buyers.

Posted by: Xaa

I with Unixadm. I'm done commenting until there is actually something new/different to comment on.

I mean I'm with him except ahem, I still have a job. ;) Just kidding old buddy. Good luck on the search.

Xaa

Posted by: unixadm

quote:
Originally posted by Xaa

I mean I'm with him except ahem, I still have a job. ;) Just kidding old buddy. Good luck on the search.

Xaa

Thanks Xaa...way to kick a guy when he is down :rolleyes:

Well, I have a couple of good prospects....Just set up an interview on Monday and have a friend in the right place somewhere else that is setting up an interview (and they have an opening!)

I am willing to bet that I will have something before month end.....at least I hope so :)

Posted by: wa2joc

unixadm: Great post.

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by unixadm
I, for one, am not going to post in any more threads about the advertising, and I suggest that everyone else do the same.

I agree unixadm. I'm staying out of those forums from now. I suggested a "close" on the "absolutely outraged" thread, lets just hope some mods can close it.

Hopefully the TiVo forum isn't going to go the same way as the Replay Forum did. :eek:

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: Xaa

I'm rooting for you Kevin, your one of the good ones. It's the New Yorker in me that makes me kick you when your down. No offense intended.

Wish I could help.

Xaa

Posted by: phxbruzer

Great post unixadm.

Posted by: jgickler

I agree that things are geting way out of hand.

There should be a Tivo Complaints section of the board, that way the mods can move threads that get redundant, or have 14 pages of the same thing over and over and over.

I vote we put all the complaints about advertising, how Tivo ruined someones life because they missed an episode of Enterprise, and any thread that has the words "class action lawsuit" in one place. This is just my opion.

Unfortunately I am sure that this thread will grow exponentionally, until it becomes a Troll's dream itself.

Posted by: TivoDaddy

I agree with you Unixadm. But I would add that at least to not look so snobbish at not answering the posts, is to politely point to a thread that discusses that topic. This way if they do have a legitimate question they will get more information

Posted by: Rcrew

Unixadm, you don't have a job? I thought you just didn't have a life... ;)

If my vote counts, I'll go along with this too. I know I'm a newby here. And read JAB's recent post pining for the 'old' more close knit days.

In the short time I've been reading/posting here, I've noticed the change in temperament. It's not quite the same.

So, I'll follow your lead, and do my best to stay out of the fray, and focus on the help and fun that is still here.

Rob

P.S. good luck on the search.

Posted by: unixadm

quote:
Originally posted by Rcrew
Unixadm, you don't have a job? I thought you just didn't have a life... ;)

Well, Unfortuntately, I got laid off last week....but the search is going well, and I hope to have something soon.

Here was my post in the Non-TiVo Happy Hour area:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...&threadid=62385

Posted by: rseligman

Personally, I just ignore the threads I'm tired of reading. And ironically, "me too" threads like this one are more of a nuisance than most others. ;)

Posted by: mtchamp

I believe there are people who come here with a hidden agenda. They usually have posted less than 5 times and they come here just to start a thread complaining about TiVo. I believe they do hope to harm TiVo by spreading fear and lies. They might also reference the thread somewhere else on the net where it will further their agenda.

I'm pretty sure some of this is being done by investors trying to manipulate TiVo's stock price. TiVo has competition and it could be them or content providers or any number of forces out there whose business model would be harmed by the widespread adoption of TiVo. There are also people who just get a kick out of this sort of thing.

The ad zapping, network busting beauty of the TiVo service is what scares many people. A dumb DVR is what they would all like us all to have. No Thanks!

For anyone considering a TiVo, just go out and buy one and try it for yourself. Give it a week and then decide whether to keep it and buy the subscription or return it. It can't be any easier. It has been established that the TiVo service is amazing, however it's very difficult to convey how a TiVo works to a non-user. You have to see a demonstration from someone who has one or just take a gamble and try one for yourself. There is a great hesitation to purchase, but once you have a TiVo, there is an even greater hesitation to going back to TV the old way.

Posted by: Richard Casto

I agree that people shouldn't feed the Trolls, but...

I think the vast number of the post related to this are not from Trolls. I disagree that we should end and/or prevent any new threads on the topic. Overall, I think it will burn out on it's own as people discuss it to death.

So while I am plenty unhappy about the entire thing (the ads, not the posts), I don't have anything further to add, so I personally am finished posting on this unless there is a new development.

Posted by: jeffw_00

How about requiring a valid tivo serial number to post to the general forums, and limit non-owners to a special forum - might even help since a lot of the real newbie questions tend to repeat. If it's clearly explained why we're doing this (to keep Trolls out) and legitimate newbie questions in the special forum get quick answers, I would think that no one would be 'turned off'.

Yes - there are ways to spoof a serial #, but it raises the barrier for entry, and if someone becomes a problem the moderator can always check the validity of the serial # w/Tivo...

just a thought.

Posted by: SuperRob

quote:
I am willing to bet that I will have something before month end.....at least I hope so

I said that too ... over a YEAR ago.

Just keep your hopes up, but I really hope you didn't jinx it. :)

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw_00
How about requiring a valid tivo serial number to post to the general forums, and limit non-owners to a special forum - might even help since a lot of the real newbie questions tend to repeat. If it's clearly explained why we're doing this (to keep Trolls out) and legitimate newbie questions in the special forum get quick answers, I would think that no one would be 'turned off'.

Yes - there are ways to spoof a serial #, but it raises the barrier for entry, and if someone becomes a problem the moderator can always check the validity of the serial # w/Tivo...

just a thought.

No, definitely not. This forum plays an integral role in people who are trying to make a purchase. Censoring all this from people who don't have a unit would be a shame and only hinder business for TiVo. This idea would be a bad mistake! :eek:

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: steuert

One man's "Troll" is another's legitimately curious newbie. If these troll threads are so easy to identify, why don't the Moderators spot and remove them, or shift them to a new Forum called, perhaps, "Possible Trolls and other Sub-Humans?" (After all, that's what we're paying the Moderators the big bucks for!!)

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by steuert
(After all, that's what we're paying the Moderators the big bucks for!!)

No it isn't. Primarily because Moderators do not get paid in the first place.

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: willardcpa

Let's see now a "troll thread" is one that starts by someone writing a long winded litany bitching about something, and then dozens of folks post to the thread. Hmmmmmmmmm:p

Posted by: kazymyr

Trolls yummy... trolls fun fun fun!

Posted by: steuert

I'm well aware Moderators don't get paid - that's why I enclosed my comment in parentheses and put in a couple exclamation points. Next time I'll be sure to add a dozen smiley faces to avoid further misunderstandings.

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by steuert
I'm well aware Moderators don't get paid - that's why I enclosed my comment in parentheses and put in a couple exclamation points. Next time I'll be sure to add a dozen smiley faces to avoid further misunderstandings.

Putting something in parentheses is usually for a side note or something like that. Putting exclamation points usually is anger, excitement, yelling or trying to emphasize something. Neither are used to demonstrate sarcasm. We can't distinguish sarcasm since we can't hear your tone of voice. Thus, the smilies. Just use a smilie next time. Also, one simple smilie would have been enough.

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: randyf

2 pages, in a few hours...

Hmmm almost as if someone was TROLLING!:)

Posted by: PaulFoster

quote:
Originally posted by unixadm

snip...

If we keep these ridiculous threads going, then someone who knows no better will see them and will not consider purchasing TiVo.....that is VERY bad for TiVo....which is VERY bad for us. If these go on too long, TiVo will lose potential customers and will have to come up with even more ways to make money...or go out of business.

snip....

Moderators: Since you already have a sticky note about this, how about we close all threads pertaining to the ads and allow no more? None of them are doing anything productive here and just serve to make TiVo look bad to potential buyers.

Perhaps the solution is not to close threads and suppress the complaints, but rather for Tivo to cease offending so many of their customers with their questionable tactics. It seems to me that if someone chooses not to purchase a Tivo because of the number complaints, that's simply the free market at work. Tivo could eliminate the vast majority of these complaints by simply offering an opt-out option, but they have chosen not to do so.

My post count is very low, and I've been very forceful in my objections, but I hardly think you should attempt to brand me as a "troll". I've owned several Tivos since 1999, and many of my friends purchased them based on my experiences. More than anyone, I would like to see the company succeed, but the issue of forced ads and forced recordings is what has caused me to stop lurking. What they are doing is wrong, and if they don't stop, then they deserve to lose out in the marketplace.

Even if you are successful in censoring the complaints here on the board, I will no longer recommend Tivo to anyone, until they offer an opt-out program. THAT is what will cause people to re-think their decision to purchase a Tivo. The only thing that has helped Tivo add subscribers so far is people like myself who persuaded others to try out a novel technology. Their ads were practically worthless.

Posted by: Dale Sorel

Sorry, Paul, but the folks making all the noise are a small percentage of TiVo users.

The noise on this board is not an accurate representation of the majority TiVo owners.

Posted by: willardcpa

Way to go Kevin, you snagged one. From hence forth you are labeled a "troll troller", or is that "troller squared (as in to the second power)?:D

Posted by: TheSimpsons

I can tell this is gradually going to turn into a troll thread isn't it? :eek: Save the complaints/comments etc. for another thread. (one we can ignore :p)

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: jones07

A "troll" is anyone that posts an opinion that goes against the opinions of the majority. I hope this forum will not turn into a forum of happy talk. Also how many posts gets you safely out of being classified as a troll ?

ReplayTV 3020
ReplayTV 4040
Tivo DSR 6000

Posted by: PAP

It seems that certain people's definition of a troll posting is now anyone who dares to express displeasure with current TIVO advertising practice.

This is unfortunate as "group think" mentality is being forced on the group. If you complain, your thread will be shut down as it is "trolling."

While I'm all for obvious threads like "tivo sucks ... UTV rules!", if a poster makes a legimate beef about a function or promotion tivo is doing, they have a right to be heard. If you don't want to read about it, then skip over that thread, seems simple enough.

If people become abusive, or making personal attacks, well then THAT is the problem, not the content of the original posting.

All, IMO, of course. But i just hate to see restriction of ideas here in the name of convenience. If you're sick of hearing about complaints about yellow stars, etc, just think how annoyed the people posting all those complaints must be, and vice versa.

Now again, if one person keeps starting new threads on the same old topic, then that needs to be dealt with as well, but it seems it's the topic that's being squelched, not the individual, and that does not speak well for any of us.

I submit this all respectfully, and am not meaning to sound like I have all the answers, but clearly emotions are running high on this forced advertising issue, and we need to treat each other's opinions and viewpoints with respect, not with attacks or over-agressive thread closing.

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
A "troll" is anyone that posts an opinion that goes against the opinions of the majority.

No, a "troll" is someone who unnecessarily tries to create controversy, rehashes old subjects, insults others etc.

quote:
Originally posted by jones07
Also how many posts gets you safely out of being classified as a troll ?

None, post count is irrelevant. If you are familiar with the Replay forum, "KenL" who is probably classified as the biggest "troll" has one of the highest post counts on the Replay forum. (Of course the highest post count on the Replay forum is probably half of the highest post count on the TiVo forum.)

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: TechDreamer

I'm glad to see all you "Troll" hunters patting yourself on the back. I have not seen any so called troll posts that broke the rules of the forum. I agree that the moderators should stop someone who is beligerant, but censorship of someones opinion is not the thing to do. Some people have posted opinions that are very misinformed, but so what! No one is forcing you to read the opinion. Why don't you just post an informed rebuttal? I kind of like the shake up lately, this place has gotten too boring. I don't exactly get excited by posts stating, "Wow, Tivo has a USB port, how neato!". Yes I want to read and hear everything about Tivo, but should I put someone down because they get way too excited? No, I just let them spaz out and move on. The same should be done with negative opinions. Let them do their rant and move on. I recently posted that I thought DirecTV was at fault in advertising the availabilty of locals to people who needed upgraded equipment. Most people just shot me down. Some of them gave good reasons and some just basically called me an idiot. So what? Big deal. That's what this place is for.

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by TechDreamer
I kind of like the shake up lately, this place has gotten too boring.

That's just sick. You like to shoot people only to see them bleed don't you? :p

Besides, non of these threads are really exciting. They are all just let downs and flames. The forum loses the fun it once had if everytime you post something someone disagrees with you just to start a fight. Also, if you thought that this was interesting you should have been here when we all started "trolling" the Replay people in their forum. Now that was fun! :)

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: willardcpa

quote:
"Most people just shot me down. Some of them gave good reasons and some just basically called me an idiot. "

Why the "and", isn't the latter the former?? Sorry its Friday, and you left yourself wide open for that one and I couldn't pass it up:D

Posted by: TechDreamer

No, I don't like to shoot people and see them bleed. I just don't mind a lively open discussion on all issues regarding Tivo. I noticed the moderators just closed a thread by someone everyone was calling a troll. The thread was not closed because of what he said, but because the responses were belligerant. The poster stated he would not buy a Tivo because of the need for a subscription and the advertising. About half the responders gave good rebuttals and the rest just said "Troll!" or something similiar. Now how do personal attacks help this board? How come the people who made the personal attacks were not punished? Why did the attackers post at all? A lot of the people on this board remind me of people I used to work with. I was a Teamsters Union Steward for awhile and a lot of the guys just thought I was a trouble maker. I was made fun of when I would bring up issues that were quote "Just meant to cause trouble". Well the issues I brought up won me $10,000 dollars from the company and completely changed their policies towards supervisors harassing workers. The workers didn't mind me "causing trouble" after that. My point is that I like my Tivo, but there are also Tivo and DirecTV policies I don't like. I think stating an opinion good or negative only helps Tivo understand the users out there and then make changes accordingly.

Posted by: TechDreamer

willardcpa -

I knew someone would eventually make fun of my grammar and/or spelling. I don't mind. I can't understand some of my own writings when I read them later on. I just hope that the smarter people on this board get the gist of what I'm trying to say. I only have an A.S. degree, but some of you are friggin rocket scientists. I think it's funny that Unixadmin is worried about finding a job. Yeah right... Try finding one with only an A.S. degree in Computer Information Systems after being a truck driver for ten years. LOL.

Posted by: Philosofy

I have the feeling some of these TiVo advertising model bashers are actually the same person. We have had that kind of person here before, and I expect we will again. I would suggest that if a moderator finds one person using more than one identity to troll, that they be exposed and banned.

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by Philosofy
I have the feeling some of these TiVo advertising model bashers are actually the same person. We have had that kind of person here before, and I expect we will again. I would suggest that if a moderator finds one person using more than one identity to troll, that they be exposed and banned.

When was this? Besides, who would take all this so seriously to go through such lengths?

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: Philosofy

quote:
Originally posted by TheSimpsons

When was this? Besides, who would take all this so seriously to go through such lengths?

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

It was a guy called Mojodeal, who shorted TiVo stock, and then posted here to trash TiVo in every conceivable way. This was NOT a nice place to be then, and as a result, stock talk was banned.

Posted by: TechDreamer

willardcpa -

Well being in a Union is cetainly not perfect, but being a truck driver in LA without one would be unbearable. I was also a HAZMAT specialist, so dealing with uneducated supervisors was really fun, "Hey the HAZMAT paperwork is messed up, but don't worry about it, just make the delivery". Gee ok boss, I'll get right on it.

Anyway I'm getting way off topic here. I like Tivo talk better. So how about that USB port! I want to know all about it!

EDIT: I see you deleted the post bashing unions? I didn't mind the comment, I'm used to it. Go Hoffa!

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by Philosofy
It was a guy called Mojodeal, who shorted TiVo stock, and then posted here to trash TiVo in every conceivable way. This was NOT a nice place to be then, and as a result, stock talk was banned.

Oh, right. I heard about this. Well, at least he had a motive and wasn't just some crazy loon. But then again, anybody who doesn't like TiVo is a crazy loon! :p

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: tom_h

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Sorel
Sorry, Paul, but the folks making all the noise are a small percentage of TiVo users.

The noise on this board is not an accurate representation of the majority TiVo owners.

Your second observation obviates your first. I think your second is accurate (but not as you intended), your first is not.

Most of the later polls, and the current one over in the UK forum keep showing 55% dont care or like the promos, 45% dont like, and about 2/3rds of the ones that dont are very negative. Not exactly a small percentage. In fact the UK poll took a few hundred votes, which is pretty darn good compared to the other polls I saw.

I had never read the UK forum before, but I went over there yesterday and read their discussion threads on the topic. Remarkably parallel to the ones we had here, except over there they were calling people whingers instead of whiners.

I guess we have had the discussions, tivo has heard what they've heard and will do what they will do. For better or for worse.

I do find the observation that newbie == troll to be flawed and one with poor end state results...new people will stop coming here if we put them out with a shovel the first time they say something.

I also think that making certain topics verboten is equally bad. Made some sense with the stock talk, theft of service and video extraction, although those just cropped up elsewhere. It wasnt the topic, it was a few people making trouble, and a few topics that made tivo uncomfortable. Fair enough.

But outlawing a topic because some people dont like it, such that people that come here looking for information will remain unaware of it and not be deterred from buying it? Doesnt sound good. How about we talk about what we're going to talk about, if you dont want to contribute, think its dumb or dont get it, go read another thread, and let people who come here, old or new, read what they'll read and make up their own minds?

Oh yeah, there still is that control issue kicking around isnt there.

Posted by: dgh

quote:
Originally posted by TheSimpsons
When was this? Besides, who would take all this so seriously to go through such lengths?

We also had another guy (or maybe the same guy) who went by the name rammy and around 10 other names. He/they often had long discussions with themselves but you could tell they were all the same person because they all wrote the same way, complained about exactly the same things the same ways etc. A few weeks after that batch of accounts was terminated, a guy named Kellogs appeared and I thought he seemed awfully familiar. Sure enough, he was eventually shown to be the same guy.

I moderate a small forum of my own, and I'm frequently surprised by how many identities map to the same IP address when the discussion gets controversial.

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by dgh
We also had another guy (or maybe the same guy) who went by the name rammy and around 10 other names. He/they often had long discussions with themselves...

That's not wierd. It's creepy and even maybe scary! :eek:

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: FlashingTwelve

I'd just like to say to all the people who lurk, who don't post, or have posted very little, that many people here (myself included) find your opinions MORE valuable than those who have posted hundreds/thousands of times (myself included). If you lurk and are moved enough to make a complaint, that is significant in my mind. It is not trolling. This place feels more and more like a fan-club, the objectivity to subjectivity ratio has plummeted in the last 12 months.

Posted by: PAP

Techdreamer - you're right on. People are using the "troll" accusation to quickly stifle opinions which they don't agree with. The thread you mention was not argumentative - the guy made a very reasonable point about why he felt Tivo was not worth the money. The responses he got from the "anti-trollers" was the problem, NOT his original post.

If everyone who is speaking so vocally about the "troll" posts would not respond so nastily, it seems to me the problem wouldn't exist.

I continue to hope everyone will cool down a bit, and the quick thread closing will stop.

Posted by: FlashingTwelve

funny how forum posting often feels like a game of BattleShip. people read a post and check the post_count and see if their post_count beats the other guys, and therefore can trump the argument with any asinine comment. at least that is how it seems.
throw in a FEW capitalized WORDS and a smiley and YOU are set ;);)

Posted by: unixadm

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h

I do find the observation that newbie == troll to be flawed and one with poor end state results...new people will stop coming here if we put them out with a shovel the first time they say something.

I didn't mean that all newbies are Trolls....just that when you see a very negative post that does not ask questions or seek any information and is looking for nothing but a flame response, and they happen to only have 1 or 2 posts, chances are they are a troll.

The main reason I posted this in the first place was that there were 3 or 4 new threads open in different forums here that were all started by people with 1 or 2 posts and all saying things like "What TiVo is doing is Illegal", "I am suing TiVo", "I will never buy TiVo because of the ads", etc.

These were clearly done by a troll. If someone was brand new and never posted here, and never owned a TiVo, why would they come here to say they would never buy a TiVo? How would they even know about the ads?

I am just saying that we need to stop posting in those types of threads so they drop off the board. The situation has been talked to death, TiVo is aware of peoples feelings and nothing more can be gained by continuing to post in such threads.

Posted by: tom_h

Perhaps then the best way to stop discussions that nobody wants to have is for nobody to participate in them?

If someone wants to come here and start posts with those titles, and nobody cares, then there would be no posts. Hence no discussion. If they do respond, then someone wants to talk about them.

If you or others specifically dont want to have them, well just like the star menu item, you dont have to click on them! They arent taking up any space you're paying for, you dont have to read them, and you dont have to respond to them. If everyone thinks the same way, voila, a rapid death.

But perhaps if you feel frustrated that discussions are taking place that you think are fruitless or done to death, even though you clearly have a choice whether to participate in them, you have gained a feel for that minority that dont like the way the advertisements have been implemented?

I just doubt its beneficial to legislate what is and isnt discussed. What inevitably happens is some newbie that might have turned out to be our most valuable contributor shows up, mentions the topic, and five people who should aspire to be as useful as trolls slam the newbie in the face with a shovel that the topic is forbidden or has been 'talked to death'.

Posted by: Dale Sorel

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
But perhaps if you feel frustrated that discussions are taking place that you think are fruitless or done to death, even though you clearly have a choice whether to participate in them, you have gained a feel for that minority that dont like the way the advertisements have been implemented?

For me, the thing that is the most frustrating is standing by and watching the degradation of this message board.

Posted by: tom_h

Then dont. Simply dont post in something you dont want to create...umm..degradation?

I'm still massively astonished that the very same cast of folks who feel the discussion of "that topic" is incomprehensible or is casting a negative pall are stumbling over each other to get in line to post items they KNOW will result in a continuance of the topic and further controversy.

Isnt THAT the definition of a troll? Someone that posts something that they know will result in backlash for no other reason than generating the backlash, who then complains about the topic being discussed further?

Posted by: unixadm

Censoring what is and isn't discussed is not what I am talking about....

What I am talking about is having 5 different threads all discussing the same thing.

Keep it to one thread....and if that gets out of hand like most of the 5 threads did, then it should be closed. There was name calling, yelling, and just plain ridiculous accusations and threats that have no reason to be there.

Think about this scenerio:

You and your neighbors have a complaint with your town. You stage a rally at town hall. Other people have a rally 2 blocks down....another group has a rally 1 block from that. There are 2 other rallys going on a few blocks away........all that the same time and all about the same thing.

Guess what the police are going to do? They are going to put an end to the rallys and start arresting people. They are not saying you can't complain, or can't stage a rally....they are saying that having 5 rallys going on at the same time about the same thing is bad for the community. It will clog up the streets for traffic, and keep people away from businesses in the area.

Well, same here....We are a community....Having 5 threads all about the same thing...clogs up our community and keeps people away.....especially ones that start with "I'm never buying a TiVo because...", or "I'm suing TiVo".

Having a rational discussion/debate in a single thread with no name calling, flaming, etc is fine....but when there are 5 threads that each turn into flame wars, it is time to put a stop to it!

The fact is that TiVo has made a business decision.....people here that don't like it have made their point and have been heard. People that don't care about the decision will never be able to change the minds of those who are against it. Those against it will not be able to change the minds of those who are not against it. At this point, we can agree to disagree. Rehashing the same things over and over is a waste, IMO. If there is new information to add to a discussion, keep it in one thread and keep it rational, polite and on subject without name calling and such.

Posted by: Dale Sorel

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
Isnt THAT the definition of a troll?

I guess it takes one to know one!

(Now that there's been name calling, let's hope this loser of a thread gets locked!)

Posted by: tom_h

Ah but I never called you a name Dale, but I'm pleased you knew who I was talking about.

Posted by: Dale Sorel

Oh Tom, I feel so...dirty. I feel like you've opened me up and seen right through to my very soul. But you know what, I kinda liked it. Would you do it again?

(If this doesn't get this thread closed, I don't know what will.)

Posted by: tom_h

Unixadm-

In your first post you suggested that newbies who posted particular topics are probably trolls, then on reconsideration again suggest they are probably trolls if they dont ask questions but simply make a broad statement which we are uncomfortable with. Perhaps they're just making a statement or looking for someone to talk them out of it? Perhaps they are a troll. Maybe something in the middle. I'm saying they should get the benefit of the doubt and if nothing else, if nobody cares then theres no response. On the other hand, if there are 20 people with nothing else to do that want to respond, they do so, get what they want (they wanted to respond), the troll gets what they want (they wanted response), and anyone who detected the troll trap avoids it and they get what they wanted. My concern here isnt with your post, its that your post follows a dozen others equating newbies with trolldom, although many of the folks making those posts appear to be little more than trolls themselves.

But i'm confused about one thing...your original post said that theres been enough of this talk and its getting us nowhere so perhaps we should close all threads and allow no more, then just above you suggest what you meant was a single thread to discuss and not stop the discussion. Its pretty much down to a single thread that had burned its way out. Where are the 5+ active posts still discussing this?

And why isnt everyone just not reading them, which appears to be the solution offered to people who dont like the advertisements? This appears to be the solve-all offered to those who have an issue with the tcp - just dont read it...it causes you no harm.

Speaking of which, I had a small epiphany (small brain). Whats really bothered me about this whole process is this: I bought a tivo to establish control of what I recorded, what I watched, and how I watched it. This process established a precedent where something happened on the receiver I could no longer control. Content would be recorded whether I wanted it or not, remain on a screen where it would inconvenience me in an admittedly minor way, and I couldnt make it go away. And tivo's response to my concerns was that they will still continue to record stuff I dont necessarily want, place it somewhere I dont want it, not allow me to delete it and not allow me to decide I dont receive it at all. Of course there are a hundred things I can do to make the tivo do what I would normally expect it to...hit 'record'...pad things out...screen out recordings...dont leave the tv alone for 25 minutes if its really important to me. How about if the damn thing just does what I want it to do rather than force me to work all around it? Great for someone like me perhaps, but rather poor for the average consumer joe sixpack, who probably spent the next 10 minutes going "what the @^#$ just happened?!?" And never knew. And because when he called tivo to ask and waited 20 minutes on hold and then hung up, tivo decides nobody really feels bad about this.

How un-tivo-like. I should restate. How un-2001-and-before-tivo-like.

So lets draw the analogy. There are topics you dont like, dont want, wish didnt happen, want to make go away but cant and wish were legislatable away.

Maybe I'm being an overly simplistic character here, but theres a great connection. Dont want to participate in the discussion? Dont. Dont want to watch the promo? Dont. Would like them to go away? Neither will. Would like everyone to agree? So far everyone doesnt. Does either inherently create harm or annoyance unless viewed and participated in? No. Are the "just there and emotionally annoying"? Sure.

In that, I think Tivo still has work to do, that they've said at this time they have no intention of doing. Opt-out. Deletion. At least better targeting. Changing the "in your faceness" of it. So far I havent heard any tivo rep say they will even consider any of the above, in fact i've heard a strong "not gonna happen". It would be so damn easy for tivo to make these a lot more valuable and less intrusive, and there are 500 people here who could have told them how to do so.

Hence the need for continued discussion.

How about we all rally to stop people asking for batch save to vcr. or season passes that encompass multiple channels. Or any nominal feature useful to the 500,000 who already own a box rather than thousands of man hours spent on enabling audio and photography stuff? Hey I've heard all that stuff a thousand times. Its done to death. Lets stop talking about it.

Am I making sense here?

(this is the point where one of the 3-4 trolls who have nothing else to do with their lives posts "yes we've heard it a thousand times" or some other classically unconstructive post intended to do nothing but inflame)

Posted by: tom_h

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Sorel
Oh Tom, I feel so...dirty. I feel like you've opened me up and seen right through to my very soul. But you know what, I kinda liked it. Would you do it again?

(If this doesn't get this thread closed, I don't know what will.)

Nothing would please me more.

So have a good look ladies and gentlemen. Heres someone who creates posts designed to inflame, then degenerates to name calling, then tries to get the thread closed through further inflamatory discussion.

Turn to the dictionary page labeled "Tro", look for the entry, paste his picture.

Unfortunately except for this diversion I think we were having a responsible adult discussion here, but this extracurricular activity might actually end up in the thread closing. How disappointing.

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Sorel

I guess it takes one to know one!

(Now that there's been name calling, let's hope this loser of a thread gets locked!)

Oh God. You had to go there didn't you. A thread made to "erase the hate", and you begin name calling. :rolleyes:

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: unixadm

tom_h

I think you are missing the whole point.

Like I said, I don't want to censor things...just want to keep the community clean.

Did you read my last post with the analogy of you complaining to Town hall???

The moderators are here to police things a bit. If things get out of hand then they need to control them.

There is only so much that can be said about any one subject....once it gets said 50 or 60 times in the exact same way, I think it is time to give it up.

I am not debating whether my opinion is better than yours or vice-versa....They are opinions and everyone has a right to their own....and has a right to express it here..........IN THE CORRECT MANNER!

The correct manner is not by creating new user names and posting new threads to purposely stir up the pot and make TiVo look bad. The Correct manner is not by calling people names, yelling and flaming people.

The correct manner is to have a single thread discussing the subject in question and being adult about the posts you make.

That is the point I am trying to make....lets not trash our community here and make ourselves and TiVo look bad to outsiders just to try to make a point. BELIEVE ME...your point has been heard by TiVo and by all on the forum. Saying it over and over in different threads is not going to change the situation.

Posted by: DJRobX

The problem is that you're labelling anyone who posts about their displeasure with TiVo's choice and method of putting advertising on their box as a troll. Yes, there is a lot of discussion about the subject. It's the latest hot topic. Isn't discussion what a message board is for?

Frankly there isn't a ton of other things to talk about; Version 3.0 doesn't change too much on the user side of things. If I'm not interested in the discussion I don't read the thread. The "excessive" thread count will burn out on it's own eventually. I'm sure the mods will start locking threads with a pointer (Please continue discussion [here]) which should all but solve the issue.

Rather than label people trolls, why not kindly suggest that they reply to existing threads rather than creating new ones? Seems like a less hostile way of accomplishing the same thing. It just seems like you're making assumptions about people's intentions because you don't agree with their opinion. In some cases you're probably right, but that's not fair to those trying to make a legitimate post.

-- Rob

Posted by: unixadm

DJRobx,

I didn't label anyone here a troll.....

I just indicated what signs to look for to indicate a troll.

Clearly you can see that there were some obvious troll posts....a brand new user coming in and posting a page long post about how he will never buy TiVo because of Ads....Another thread from a user who never posted before saying that TiVo is doing something Illegal and he is going to Sue.

These are clearly usernames that were created by someone else here on the forum to hide their real identity and stir up the pot more and make it look like there are more complaints than there really are.

There is no need for that. Doing this is not discussing in an rational, adult manner.

Posted by: phone1

Thanks unixadm. I think my earlier post (copied shameless from the website it's linked to here) put it pretty well:

How to Handle a Troll

I accept that TiVo users have real problems and concerns. We may be bashing each other here from time to time, but at least the posters are TiVo owners who all feel they have a legitimate argument. If we are complaining, it's because we want an issue resolved, hopefully not just to vent. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

But when somebody starts a thread as a non-TiVo owner, first time poster in this fashion, it's such an obvious attempt to stir up trouble that it should just be ignored.

quote:
I came here to learn about TIVO. From what I have seen TIVO will eventually require a subscription to record anything at all

That's the "they don't have a clue" part.

quote:
will send more and more intrusive advertising to me whether I like it or not.

An obvious attempt to reignite the TCP issue on yet another thread.

quote:
Those of you who defend TIVO to the death, you will gradually lose more and more control over what you see and when you see it. (Funny that was thier big selling point up till now.)

Sounds like bait to me.

quote:
See "TiVo promotion sparks complaints" at ZD.net. Its coming here soon I would imagine.

Throw in a little FUD.

quote:
Flame all you want TIVO supporters I will not be buying one. (That way I won't be back in here complaining.

and a little icing on the flame bait cake.

We have many more meaningful topics to explore. Peace...

Posted by: randyf

quote:
Originally posted by unixadm
DJRobx,

snip* obvious troll posts....a brand new user coming in and posting a page long post about how he will never buy TiVo because of Ads

*snip*

I'm sorry, but I don't think a post like this DOES qualify as an "obvious troll post"

A guy goes looking to buy a pvr, does his homework, reads the forums, etc, and then dares to post his opinion, and reason why he decides against it.

The problem is as old as this board

Say A N Y T H I N G negative about TiVo and you are a TROLL, LOSER, TROUBLEMAKER, FUD SPREADER, or whatever.

this type of post is only a troll becuse his opinion differs with the dynasty here. If the same poster had come in, with almost the very same post, but ended with "I found Replay to be an overpriced POS, I'm buying TiVo" he would be carried around on peoples shoulders!

people's opinion on TiVo even when it is not favorable is valuable. If people are afraid to voice VALID thoughts, even when they are not favorable, without fear of attack, then they won't.

Posted by: unixadm

One thing that everyone has to remember:

This is NOT a public forum....it is privately owned and run by David Bott. It is partially funded by TiVo.

TiVo has graciously put money into this forum, had employees put time into answering questions, posting information and giving us advanced notice of things...including the ability to Beta test new software.

Since TiVo IS a sponser of this forum, it is our duty to not trash or flame TiVo. Expressing one's opinions on their decisions is one thing, but it is AGAINST THE RULES to flame any company, individual or group including TiVo.

At anytime, TiVo could pull their sponsership, stop their employees from posting here and leave us all on our own....Do you want that to happen?

Think of this analogy:

A local company sponsers your baseball team. The company makes a business decision you and your team are not happy with. You complain...that is fine....but if you go on a rampage and start trashing the company in public, threatening to sue the company, and call people names, you can bet that they will withdraw their sponsership of your baseball team.

Same here.....You want to bash TiVo, threaten TiVo, threaten other members, call other people names, etc....then go to another forum!

We benefit alot from TiVo's participation here.....they even have a link from their own website to here.....That will not last if there are a large number of threads trashing the company. Express your opinions...fine....in a rational, adult manner....in a single thread dedicated to the discussion.

Anything else IS BEING A TROLL...whether you have 1 post or 5000 posts!

Posted by: randyf

Let's look dissect the SAME quot without the Rose Colored TiVo glasses
quote:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I came here to learn about TIVO. From what I have seen TIVO will eventually require a subscription to record anything at all
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the "they don't have a clue" part.

Right, which is why they are doing their homework to get a clue

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
will send more and more intrusive advertising to me whether I like it or not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An obvious attempt to reignite the TCP issue on yet another thread.

an observation from the research on the new product he wants to purchase

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those of you who defend TIVO to the death, you will gradually lose more and more control over what you see and when you see it. (Funny that was thier big selling point up till now.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like bait to me.

a product of reading THESE forums, and observing the history of the Zealots

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See "TiVo promotion sparks complaints" at ZD.net. Its coming here soon I would imagine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Throw in a little FUD.

FUD? or FACT ? does the ZD net article exist ? did HE write it ? you can question the content or accuracy of the article, but no matter the content, if it is THERE it WILL be read, and probably will be read by more people than will make it to this board.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flame all you want TIVO supporters I will not be buying one. (That way I won't be back in here complaining.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and a little icing on the flame bait cake.

an (obviously accurate) product of research of this board, and how dissenters are attacked, and dismissed.

quote:

We have many more meaningful topics to explore. Peace...

Agreed!
__________________

Posted by: randyf

quote:
Originally posted by unixadm

Since TiVo IS a sponser of this forum, it is our duty to not trash or flame TiVo. Expressing one's opinions on their decisions is one thing, but it is AGAINST THE RULES to flame any company, individual or group including TiVo.

I agree completely that neither TiVo or other members should be flamed, or trashed. the fact that they are a sponsor shouldn't really matter, but as you said the overriding rules of conduct are set by David, and should be followed / respected.

but I think that some people miss the point that negative feedback can benefit EVERYONE (if it is constructive) TiVo, as well as any other company needs to get feedback from the public as to how their products / services are received. Things that they like, or dislike. Issues that keep coming up, are likely to be addressed.

It does none of us any good if our (relatively small ) group all runs around hugging, and dancing and singing the praises of TiVo, while the rest of the world goes another direction, and we are left scracthing our heads wondering what happened to Tivo ? it was perfect..

If TiVo wants an "all things TiVo are perfect" forum, then they would create their own moderated, censored board. then it would change from being useful information for consumers to more marketing propaganda.

Posted by: unixadm

randyf,

I agree that negative feedback can be good and has been and still is a large part of this forum. The problem is that people have hidden agendas.

The issue at hand is being discussed in numerous threads that are very long....some people feel that instead of posting in that thread, they will begin another one so that their opinion can be seen above all the others. Some other people feel that it is ok to create numerous other userids and post under those so it appears that there are more complaints than there really are.

As I said....a single thread discussing the matter is fine. Any other threads should reference the single thread and be closed.

TiVoPony has already acknowledged the complaints and has addressed them in a sticky post at the top. Since that is closed for comment, I agree that having one single open thread discussing it is fine. But when you come to the page and the top 5 posts are all about the same thing, and they all end up in flame wars, then it is out of hand. If you look, TiVoPony has opened up a thread about the Sheryl Crow videos and Best Buy Ads....post there....no need to open another thread just to "make a point".

People need to realize that once they have posted their complaint, and it is acknowledged by TiVo and the rest of this community, there is no need to open up more threads and say the same thing over and over. It is not acomplishing anything but to make our community look like a bunch of whiners with no life.

The fact that TiVo sponsers this forum DOES make a difference....at least to me....I have been privy to information that I would not have anywhere else...I have been able to get problems solved and get advanced software before others that are not on this board. That is important to me. I don't want to lose that just because people have their own agendas.

I understand that some people are upset about the business decisions TiVo has made....but there are good ways to express that and bad ways to express that. If we continue down the path were are headed, I think we will all lose in the longrun.

Posted by: randyf

Fair enough..

I think this "anti troll trap " trap has pretty much run it's use.

we are going around in circles! and it's all pretty much been said before.

I'm through with this one. :cool:

ps--- sponsOr :p

Posted by: unixadm

Yeah...I guess we both made our points....no point in restating our opinions over and over.....

This is starting to become one of the threads that I am complaining about :)

We will now return to your regular scheduled programming...

:D

Posted by: Dale Sorel

quote:
Originally posted by tom_h
Nothing would please me more.

Uh, I guess you can't take a joke, can you?

quote:
So have a good look ladies and gentlemen. Heres someone who creates posts designed to inflame, then degenerates to name calling, then tries to get the thread closed through further inflamatory discussion.

Uh, I wasn't the one who started throwing the "troll" label around, was I?

quote:
Turn to the dictionary page labeled "Tro", look for the entry, paste his picture.

Uh, someone was talking about name calling?

quote:
Unfortunately except for this diversion I think we were having a responsible adult discussion here, but this extracurricular activity might actually end up in the thread closing. How disappointing.

As I've said in another post: opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one!

Posted by: mattnboise

This thread reminds me of a certain Flame Warrior.

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/assets/Roayls.jpg
Royals

Posted by: PAP

Does this opinion regarding all complaints about forced advertising being in one thread mean everyone who posts about locals or about 3.0 software features that start a new thread are trolls also? After all, you can't have one standard for one area of interest, and something else for everyone else.

I would look at the number of threads being created as a sign that there is a great deal of interest in this topic. Instead of trying to deny it, accept it. Again I state if you can -prove- that a user is creating new user IDs and posting multiple threads on the same topic just to stir up trouble, that is one thing. But the latest thread that got closed on why I'm not buying a tivo was not at all that, in my observation.

Cutting back healthy discourse just because you -assume- that a new user is here only to make trouble is short sighted, IMHO. For example, when I made the decision to buy my directTivo units, I joined several other forums and posted some questions, and in the end posted why I was going to Tivo rather than Dish or Utv. I was not obnoxious about it, and neither are many of the threads here being labeled as "trolls" but according to your definitions, I was simply stirring up argument, which I was not. Many would-be buyers come here to research BEFORE they buy, and threads about why people might NOT like the TIVO are just as important as why we do.

If you want credibility, you have to be open to dissent. And that seems to be in question here. It seems some users (and moderators) dissatisfaction and frustration at having to hear so many complaints about the advertising is giving way to unneeded (IMO) restriction of discussion. Again, the number of threads and discussion on this topic means there is a desire to talk about it! You need to look at it that way. If a user is being abusive, or starting multiple threads to clog the forum, then ban him. Otherwise, lets let the discussion continue.

Submitted respectfully, as always.

Posted by: jeffw_00

quote:
Originally posted by TheSimpsons

No, definitely not. This forum plays an integral role in people who are trying to make a purchase. Censoring all this from people who don't have a unit would be a shame and only hinder business for TiVo. This idea would be a bad mistake! :eek:

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Ummm - please re-read my post - I didn't suggest limiting their viewing, just their posting.

I guess even supreme beings are fallable (or perhaps you're just a troll 8-})
/j

Posted by: TechDreamer

Unixadm -

You gotta be kidding when you say "we" have to defend Tivo on this board because of sponsorship. Tivo has stated that they consider this an independent area even though they sponsor it. You also have exaggerated on the flaming and name calling, etc. I think the moderators do a good job on these boards and they take care of things that get out of hand. I'm sure glad you don't moderate the boards. Each one of you're postings gets a little more out there in my opinion. I never realized you were against free speech on these boards. I am kind of speechless after reading some of you're last postings. This place is more public than you think. It is certainly not owned by Tivo. I actually think Tivo likes having this place wide open. I think they want to know what people think good or bad. I know you think the nutcase opinions don't matter, but they do. Those Best Buys are going to have a lot of Joe Sixpacks this Christmas season shopping for a Tivo. These "Joes" are going to have whacky opinions on things and guess what? Tivo has to cater to them too. Geeks are not going to keep Tivo in business.

Posted by: unixadm

TechDreamer,

I NEVER said that we should defend TiVo...

What I said was that since TiVo points people here from their website, and they have graciously allowed their employees to put time in here giving us advanced information, that we should keep our Community Tidy.

I have no problem with someone having a complaint....I've had complaints in the past and posted them in the appropriate thread. But trashing TiVo, threatening TiVo, and creating new threads to do nothing but start a flame war is not a good thing for people to do. You are naive if you think that there aren't people here with hidden agendas and people who have purposely started thread upon thread about the same subject under different usernames.

This is really going nowhere at this point....the Moderators HAVE done their job and closed at least 3 of the offending threads. That was my main complaint....that we look like a bunch of unorganized crazy zeolots ready to lynch everyone at TiVo and kill one another....all over a yellow star.

The same thing happened when Ultimate TV first came out and had two tuners and TiVo still had 2.1 with one tuner.....There were at least 5-10 new threads every few hours all saying how UTV was SO much better than TiVo....and that TiVo was never going to release 2 tuners. And many of them were started by the same few people.

I guess you want everyone here to trash TiVo in thread after thread, have TiVo lose customers and ultimately go out of business....Guess that will show them who is boss!

Guess you haven't learned an important lesson in life....sometimes, even though you may not agree with something, it is sometimes better in the long run to state your opinion, then let it go. Screaming, yelling, throwing tantrums, etc in thread upon thread is not going to accomplish anything...other than make you feel a little better about yourself, and will probably cause more damage to this forum and to TiVo.

Go ahead and state your opinions, either negative or positive....but if you were adult about it, then you would state it in one of the already open threads, and you wouldn't trash talk....that is all I am saying.

Posted by: FlashingTwelve

quote:
Originally posted by unixadm
Since TiVo IS a sponser of this forum, it is our duty to not trash or flame TiVo. Expressing one's opinions on their decisions is one thing, but it is AGAINST THE RULES to flame any company, individual or group including TiVo.

To me, this is more dangerous than any troll. You chose words carefully there, morphing complaints into 'trash' and then extrapolating it into 'flame'. Is 'trash' closer to complain or flame? Most folks who come here to complain are usually inexperienced people looking for an explanation and a place to vent frustration. That isn't trolling, which is designed to hurt a forum or company. These people are very often looking for help. If you start lobbying for a more subjective, less objective forum the value of the forum plummets. Saying people should not discuss certain issues, or complain about things otehrs have complaiend about, is losing objectivity.

The best way to handle the multiple-threads is to politely close them. I notice Mike Lang, eg, does this very succintly with a 'Already under discussion' and a link to the other thread. Threads like this, and the thread about 'Tivo Whiners' only fan the flames. I saw when this thread started, and I was very confused as I didn't see the multiple threads. Maybe they were deleted?

Take a look at the currently open thread 'Tivo must handle sports better!'. It was started by a newbie with a complaint, it is a previously discussed issue, and most of the people coming out of the woodwork are newbies. At least right now, it is a model thread. Civil and thoughtful. Maybe it is because the guy was almost polite, or maybe it was because 5 regulars didn't pounce with 'whiner', '*yawn*', or sarcastic remarks. For years the big question for Tivo that regulars have brought up is 'How do we sell/explain it to Joe Sixpack?'. These are Joe 6packs turning up telling you what they are confused by and what they need. Tivo needs to pay more heed to these people and less head to propellerheads pimping the importance of ports.

Posted by: FlashingTwelve

quote:
Originally posted by unixadm
Go ahead and state your opinions, either negative or positive....but if you were adult about it, then you would state it in one of the already open threads

Then why did you start this one?

Posted by: unixadm

quote:
Originally posted by FlashingTwelve

The best way to handle the multiple-threads is to politely close them. I notice Mike Lang, eg, does this very succintly with a 'Already under discussion' and a link to the other thread. Threads like this, and the thread about 'Tivo Whiners' only fan the flames. I saw when this thread started, and I was very confused as I didn't see the multiple threads. Maybe they were deleted?

FlashingTwelve....

The Moderators have done their job well.....There were 3 new theads at the top of the Coffee House, 2 threads at the top of the DirectTiVo forum and 1 even got moved to Suggestion Avenue....all discussing the "Yellow Star"

That is what got me going with this thread.....One of the threads was clearly created by someone who just created a username and was posted to do nothing but flame TiVo, threaten them with a lawsuit and insight flames. I has posted a response, then someone gave a definition of a "Troll". At that point, I realized that I had been baited by the Post, and felt like it was important to let these threads die.

Since then, the threads have been closed, removed or just dropped off the first page of the board, so that is fine....that was what I was trying to accomplish with this thread in the first place.

I think it is time to let this thread die as well. I would like to close it, but can't...and don't feel that is right for me to delete.

I will leave it up to the Moderators to close this.

I think I have already stated my thoughts, others have stated theirs, and the point is moot now that the offending threads have dropped off the board.

Posted by: TheSimpsons

quote:
Originally posted by FlashingTwelve
Then why did you start this one?

I don't think this thread is similar to any other of the "open threads". It is simply a thread warning that a lot of people are trying to create controversy in the forum, and in the best interest of the forum and the people who use it, we should keep this a nice, fun place for all of us. Which I agree with.

I miss news about "who said TiVo on what show", a good article, news about upcoming versions, helpful suggestions etc. Instead this place has just become a "warground" in which people tend to just get angry about this and then try to prove someone else wrong about that.

I want the "old forum" back. :(

-The Simpsons :) :D :cool: :eek: :p

Posted by: Mike Lang

quote:
Originally posted by unixadm
I think it is time to close this thread....I started the thread, and I think it has run it's course.