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The Wire - SPOILERS
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Posted by: mostman

Ok - raise your hand if you STILL don't like this show. It just keeps getting better and better. How in the world can they kill off the second most important character! Isn't that against some sort of TV show rule!?

-Mike

Posted by: Attack

/me lowers both hands :)

quote:
How in the world can they kill off the second most important character! Isn't that against some sort of TV show rule!?

I don't know how they can do it, but I can't wait for the next episode.

Well UC: Undercover did this in the first or second episode (I can't remember what one). Also Buffy the Vampire Slayer will do this and has done it a lot, but I guess they kinda cheat since they find away to bring most of them back to life.

Posted by: ehopper

The Wire is great, but very complex. Really requires concentration. I wish I had all the episodes, it really almost needs going back and charting all the activity throughout the series. I hope they turn around and rerun it very soon.

Posted by: cheerdude

I agree ehopper...

I do like the show.. however, I do get confused with the different character and plot twists. If HBO re-runs the entire first season (which is probably a no brainer), I'll make sure to SUID and watch them from the beginning again.

Jeff

Posted by: pjenkins

ah the wonders of 3 DirecTivos in the house :) I've watched each episode at least twice now, some 3 times, to make sure I'm 'caught up' :)

I couldn't believe it when they off'd Greggs, I really liked her character and it definitely makes it more interesting going forward.

This show is right at the top of my list for great TV.

Posted by: grecorj

Hmm...ok, so I haven't finished watching yesterday's ep yet, but new something was up with Greggs. However, has anyone read the ep description for next week? Seems to contradict what is being said in this thread...

Posted by: pjenkins

quote:
has anyone read the ep description for next week

no, what does it say? i know the title is "The Hunt", I assumed it was the hunt for Greggs' killer. The previews for next week show them at the door of Greggs' lover, I wouldn't think they would do that if she were in the hospital...

Posted by: Attack

quote:
Originally posted by grecorj
Hmm...ok, so I haven't finished watching yesterday's ep yet, but new something was up with Greggs. However, has anyone read the ep description for next week? Seems to contradict what is being said in this thread...

I didn't read it, because I want to be surprised.

Posted by: walkerism

I'm not quiete sure she is dead. They only showed her unconscious. I think she is still alive as she is a major character on the show. Has anyone seen def poetry on hbo? The guy who plays avon barksdale was on there a week ago. It was different seeing him out of character. He seems like a classical trained actor and his poem was awesome.

Posted by: jradosh

quote:
Originally posted by walkerism
I'm not quiete sure she is dead. They only showed her unconscious.

I agree. She may not be dead. It'll be interesting to see (if she isn't dead) how her character is included in future episodes (or not), and what effect it will have on (whatshisname) the recovering junkie (who was waiting for her help).

If she is dead, then I'm floored... :(

J

Posted by: grecorj

Ok, perhaps another major spoiler alert is in order, just to be safe:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
When I looked at next week's episode description in my TO DO LIST, it says something to the effect of "Greggs is hospitalized...", which is why I was surprised to see people posting about her death...

Posted by: tivojoego

quote:
Originally posted by mostman
Ok - raise your hand if you STILL don't like this show. It just keeps getting better and better. How in the world can they kill off the second most important character! Isn't that against some sort of TV show rule!?

-Mike

Where do you get second most important character?
This is an ensemble cast which means there are 15 second most important characters on this show.

Posted by: tivojoego

Plus The Shield really started this trend with the recognizable cop who looked like he was gonna be a player on the show if you don't know what happended you missed some of the most riveting programming this year on that Pilot Episode.

Posted by: mostman

quote:
Originally posted by tivojoego

Where do you get second most important character?
This is an ensemble cast which means there are 15 second most important characters on this show.

Good point - I should have said "one of the major characters"

Just the same - if they end up killing her off - I will be amazed. I think they threw in the scene with them telling her lover about her to fool us. She will be alive - and back on the job in two episodes I bet.

I can't wait to see the battle next week over how to handle the killers. They have been trying to stay low key as to avoid tipping Avon and his crew off - how will they do that now?

-Mike

Posted by: tonyoci

I watched the episode last night and I was totally shocked, this being despite me predicting in this forum that a major character would die. I just did not expect this one for it to happen this way (though I understand the "final decision" is not in yet. Even when they found the car I did not expect the end result.

The power of the reactions, especially from the two younger cops and the Lieutenant, was impressive - it showed how much I have got into this show that it really affected me (made me sad) and sent me off to bed in a very disturbed mood.

I am a little concerned about Omar taking the bus. I really like him. I would like to see more of Stringer and Avon than we usually do.

This is the only show I wait for every week right now and I check the time while I am watching it to make sure there is more left, then I feel down and ready for next week as soon as it finishes.

T

Posted by: jradosh

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci
I am a little concerned about Omar taking the bus. I really like him. I would like to see more of Stringer and Avon than we usually do.

I'm glad you mentioned this. With all the discussion about the shooting, this plot twist hadn't been mentioned. It would be a real shame if Omar was not in the upcoming episodes. :(

J

Posted by: tonyoci

I heard a story that Omar was not originally planned to be a major player, but that he worked so well they factored him in more and more. They then decided that he was a major distraction from the main story so that needed to back him out a little. I think they will bring him back in later.

T

Posted by: harvscar

I honestly thought with the big send-off at the bus station that Omar was going to be shot or shanked on the bus or at the next stop. My favorite scene so far from the show is Omar coming into the low rises with his shotgun as everyone flees. :up::up:

Boston Public Spoiler

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
After the Harry Senate fiasco, I won't believe she's dead until I see her pronounced.

Posted by: mostman

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci
I
The power of the reactions, especially from the two younger cops and the Lieutenant, was impressive

Agreed - I think their performances made the scene. It says a lot about the character development they have done when you can watch the younger cops kick around barrels and get really upset, and you know exactly WHY they are upset. You get a true sense of how they feel. They have done a tremendous job with the writing and I think they probably spent a long time casting the correct people.

As for Omar - I'm sure we will see him again soon. No way can they keep him gone for long - he is too cool.

Posted by: jradosh

Wah! :( Only two episodes left. Somehow I doubt that they'll tie up all the loose ends in that time which means we'll be left with a cliff-hanger until next season.

On the plus side I saw where HBO is going to rerun "The Corner" soon. :)

J

Posted by: grecorj

I second your "wah!" jradosh. Plus, no new episode this Sunday! I was kind of hoping that the finale for The Wire would be the lead in for The Sopranos -- what a way to get some much deserved attention for this great, great show.

I don't think there will be a huge cliffhanger for the finale, however. 2 episodes is about right for what they have to wrap up.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
I mean, the scenes for the next episode show them bracing D'Angelo and you wonder if they'll be able to "turn him" against Avon -- "D" doesn't seem to have the stomach for this stuff, especially considering they "have him" on the murder of that girl. My prediction is that Stringer will survive but Avon won't; perhaps Stringer will be the focus of another season?

Posted by: tonyoci

Any thoughts on who the cop providing info to the bosses is ? I cannot come up with anyone at this point

T

Posted by: dmaneyapanda

i have no good guesses either.

however, your comment makes me think that (aside from the relative shortness of the production run), this would be a great show to have some sort of viewers guide, with each episode summary also including a list of questions answered, and new questions raised. similar to the Babylon 5 lurker's guide: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html

Posted by: jradosh

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci
Any thoughts on who the cop providing info to the bosses is ? I cannot come up with anyone at this point

No one. It's probably a wire. ;)

Posted by: dmaneyapanda

i just noticed that HBO is running a Wire marathon later this month (the 30th or thereabouts), for those of you who missed this excellent show the first time around (or almost as likely, if you cancelled the SP early on before it really got engaging).

Posted by: JonH

quote:
Originally posted by dmaneyapanda
i just noticed that HBO is running a Wire marathon later this month (the 30th or thereabouts), for those of you who missed this excellent show the first time around (or almost as likely, if you cancelled the SP early on before it really got engaging).

HBO is showing episodes 9, 10 and 11 on August 30th. Episode 12 is September 1 and the final episode 13 on September 8.

JonH

Posted by: dmaneyapanda

well, that's not nearly as helpful. sorry about the false alarm.

Posted by: jradosh

Head's up!

Interesting article on "The Wire" in today's Sunday Edition of the Washington Post...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2002Aug26.html

Posted by: tonyoci

So now we head to the last show. Anyone have predictions on how it's going to work out. I just hope that Barksdale's lawyer get's it somehow.

T

Posted by: pjenkins

jradosh, GREAT article, thanks!

Predictions? I predict that no matter what I predict, something else will happen :) That said, I see D starting to turn on Avon, then his Mom shuts him up, and the case unravels at McNulty's feet. The ending of the show is Avon walking out of court a free man, no happy ending in this series. Perfectly sets up the next year if HBO decides to continue the show.

Posted by: harvscar

Transcript of online Q&A with David Simon.

:up::up::up:The following gem from said chat:

quote:
David Simon: We are confident that the show will be picked up for a second season. It cannot be officially announced however until we are advanced enough in our second-season plans so that we know what to tell the various actors. in short, union rules require that we exercise options on actors ten days after an announced renewal. HBO will not announce any renewal until we better know the plan for season two, so that actors can be properly informed. In a week or two, though, we expect good news.

Posted by: pjenkins

well, this clears up whether they will continue on with Barksdale and Company...

quote:
David Simon: I replied to this earlier in saying I am confident of a second season. Will the cast be the same? To some extent. But the premise of the show requires another prolonged investigation, probably of a fresh target.

Posted by: pjenkins

harvscar, great interview, this is another interesting nugget

quote:
Note: Only Omar does not curse. As he only is not beholden to either bureaucracy and can live by his own code. Get it?

Posted by: grecorj

harvscar and jradosh: great links, thanks guys!

crossing fingers for a Season 2 announcement soon, looking forward to finale this weekend...

Posted by: tonyoci

My prediction is that D turns on Avon because his Mom tells him to after Avon refuses to back him up. Either way there seems a lot to resolve in an hour.

Another possibility is the return of Omar to finish Avon after he get's off from the case, maybe with a little help from the police ?

T

Posted by: Frylock

I don't wonder if Stringer will be kept as a holdover somehow... Perhaps he will begin to build up a new business...

Posted by: Timbeau

My infallable crystal ball says that D and Avon meet in jail, D kills Avon in an argument over Wallace then spends the rest of his days in jail from the drug bust. The little kids find out about Stringer putting a contract on Wallace and off him. McNulty loses evidence on the kids and they don't see the inside of a jail. Pretty tidy.

By the way, whose kids are those anyway? Wallace's brothers and sisters?

Posted by: Attack

What a great ending. I hope they make a second season. I hope they can get the same people back somehow.

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)

I wonder if McNullty gave a fake place that he didn't want to end up at?

Posted by: pjenkins

Sad to see it go, hopefully a second season will get the green light. The ending was quite a statement, showing, to me anyway, the stupidity in fighting a "war on drugs".

The ending with Omar was classic :)

Posted by: grecorj

What a finish! I didn't think they would be able to resolve everything in the final hour, but David Simon & crew did a great job.

Attack: In response to your question:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
The old cop who came in from the Pawn Shop detail told him that if he ever gets asked "So where don't you want to go?" to be careful what you answer b/c that is likely where you'll wind up... I think McNulty chose Shore Patrol b/c it was probably the least offensive beat he could think of...

Posted by: pjenkins

I did like the scene at the end where the original squealer in the squad was walking a beat on the street :)

I wonder what a season 2 would look like, I guess all new characters?

Posted by: tonyoci

The ending was good but I found it a little flat. This was because it was too real life. I think they had too much to tie up and it went too quickly, and everything working out perfectly would not have been believable.

Seeing Omar was cool though I would have liked to see him gun down Stringer.

The original squeeler turned out to be OK so it was disappointing to see him on the beat - to me.

I was pleased to see that last little summary of everyone though it was not completely clear what they were all doing. It will be tough to pull the same characters back into one unit for next year.

Anyone understand the story about Lt. Daniels and "the money" ?

I love the way that Bubbles talks to McNutty (lol)

Great show and I will miss it. I ended up feeling sorry for D and frustrated at the way Avon smiled at McNutty (lol).

T

Posted by: grecorj

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci
The original squeeler turned out to be OK so it was disappointing to see him on the beat - to me.

Which is why he got put on a beat again (for going against the brass).

quote:
Anyone understand the story about Lt. Daniels and "the money" ?

Sort of:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Early on in the show we learn from McNulty's FBI "buddy" that Daniels had been under investigation, along with others, for corruption. I don't recall if anything specific was discussed, but I don't think so. This explains why he was reluctant to go against the "brass" at first. In the end he decided that the corruption would never be revealed b/c it would cause to many pr problems for the dept. His lone punishment for the whole "wire" case was not getting the promotion to Major. He has a mea culpa moment with the guy who got promoted to sgt, telling him his men will look to him and that when he was walking a beat the Lt. and Sgt. in his precinct were bad, thus all the cops were "bad".

Posted by: mostman

Excellent finish.

I like how they took the middle ground for an ending. they had a major success - but not quite as good as they all had hoped.

As for McNulty and the shore squad - that's where he wanted to be. This was a GREAT tie in to the beginning when Lester gave him advice on what to say in that situation. 'I want you to land well McNulty - where 'don't' you want to be' - Just classic.

I assume they will keep the majority of the same characters. They will find a way to bring them back together. It seems that they wrote the season so that it worked well as a stand-alone season - but could easily be extended.

-Mike

Posted by: jradosh

They had damned well better re-up this show!!! I really want to see the eventual show-down between Stringer and Omar. :eek:

The title of the show ("The Wire") might end up forcing the plot into something less-than-realistic just so that calling it "The Wire" still makes sense. If they had chosen a less specific title then next season could be wide open as far as plots/characters.

But I have faith in their writers to somehow make it still 'real'. :)

J

Posted by: Timbeau

A GREAT series from start to finish. But why would D

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
choose 20 yrs. in jail after his mom gave him a pep talk about family? Or was she saying that they had kidnapped his kid? In my mind, 20 yrs in jail is a REALLY long time.

?

And what happened to Wallace's kids and who were they anyway? Were they his brothers and sisters? Or kids he gathered up that needed watching over?

Posted by: JorgeGVB

I would think if this show is renewed, it will only have a few of the players from this season and a bunch of new people. This will allow them to give it a new name as well, they could just advertise it as the follow-up to The Wire. I don't think they could use the wire storyline again and keep it interesting. The investigation would have to go in a new direction.

BTW, did anyone notice Dominic West ("McNaulty") was in the movie Rock Star that has been playing on HBO too lately. He is the guitar player in Steel Dragon. HBO ran the The Wire and Rock Star back-to-back one night a few weeks ago.

Posted by: tonyoci

Check Dominic out on IMDB, he's been in quite a few things. He's a Brit, hence the slightly strange American accent.

T

Posted by: mostman

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci
Check Dominic out on IMDB, he's been in quite a few things. He's a Brit, hence the slightly strange American accent.

T

Yeah - it is really obvious when he starts yelling

Posted by: pjenkins

Was watching Season 3 of the Sopranos in anticipation of Sunday night, when who do I see? Omar! He hides Jackie Jr. in the last episode of Season 3.

Posted by: jradosh

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci
He's a Brit, hence the slightly strange American accent.

I noticed him in "Rock Star" and thought to myself, "wow, he does a really good British accent". I guess now I know why. I never thought that he had a "slightly strange American accent", but then again I'm not that observant :rolleyes:

Regarding D and why it took the 20 years... I think once the idea of witness relocation was out the window (the Fed deal fell through), he knew that he had a choice of getting whacked for being a rat or doing the time. He chose the time.

J :)

Posted by: BlearyEyed

Not to disagree with anybody, but I don�t think D took the 20 years out of fear of being labeled a rat. I think the realization that taking down Avon would have destroyed his family is what caused him to take the 20.

When his mom came to see him she explained to him how Avon as head of the drug ring was basically supporting their entire family, her/him/cousins/nephews even D�s son. If Avon goes to jail and all that money goes away every member of the family is basically out on the street. D could choose between saving himself at the cost of his entire family or taking the 20 and letting Avon off so that the rest of his family didn�t have to suffer.

It was D who decided for himself to as they called it "play the game" and i took it that he decided to accept the repercussions of his choice.

Posted by: doconner

You all seem to be forgetting that earlier in the episode, while he was being interrogated, D said that his 8 months in jail was the free-est time he has ever lived.

Since the witness relocation program was out the window, he preferred to be in jail over 'being in the game'. Because to him, this was 'more free'.

Posted by: grecorj

Some good news from Multichannel News about The Wire. Renewal looks certain now...

Posted by: stitch626

I've just got hooked on The Wire recently- yet another great show to add to HBO's lineup. The only thing that bugs me about HBO though is how actors from one series will show up on other series so if I just happen to be flipping through the channels a lot of times I can't really tell what show I'm watching at that moment (the line is especially blurred between Oz and The Wire although in general I usually figure it out after a few minutes cause if the show goes on 5 minutes without any gratuitious full frontal male nudity I know it isn't Oz)

Seriously, at least you're not getting cross-overs between series (could you imagine a cameo from one of the characters on the Sopranos appearing on Sex & the City or vice versa?). I do think it's a bit amusing to see Baltimore's true-life police commisioner Edward Norris making a cameo as one of the detectives on the wire (kinda an inside joke if you're not familiar with Baltimore politics)

Posted by: jbalfour

quote:
Originally posted by mostman

As for McNulty and the shore squad - that's where he wanted to be. This was a GREAT tie in to the beginning when Lester gave him advice on what to say in that situation. 'I want you to land well McNulty - where 'don't' you want to be' - Just classic.

I thought in an earlier episode McNulty said the harbor patrol is where he didn't want to go. He was allergic to the diesel fumes. I figured he had a bout of masochism and told the truth about where he didn't want to go.

Anyone have any more thoughts or remembrances?