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What's new in v3.2.0 software?
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Posted by: bookrats

Anyone have information as to what's different in the v3.2.0 software that's being shipped with the new 80-hour Series 2 Tivos? (As described in this thread?)

My Series 2 60 Hour Tivo is at 3.0.<something>, and I was curious what new stuff was is in the 3.2 software.

Thanks in advance!

Posted by: phone1

Just a guess:

- Three tuners
- Reverse, soft padding
- Never record this program as a suggestion option
- To Do programs in folders
- "Not" options on wishlists

To name a few. :D

Posted by: kazymyr

No, these will be in version 26.000.054.A

Posted by: feldon23

Improved picture quality apparently.

Posted by: phone1

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
Improved picture quality apparently.

Unless they made a HW modification that requires 3.2 to operate it. If 3.2 was available to everyone and they are comfortable releasing it in new boxes - why don't we all have it?

Posted by: feldon23

Cause that is now how TiVo releases software.

TiVo software has always had independant releases. 2.5 came out for DirecTiVos before it came out for standalone TiVos. DirecTiVo series2s are coming with 3.1 long before DirecTiVo series1s will get it or 3.0.

Posted by: DrStrange

Except that SAs are different hardware platforms than DirecTivos, and Series 2s are different hardware than series 1s so testing and releasing the software for each model separately makes sense. But the 80 hour and 60 series 2 are supposedly the same hardware except for the hard drive, so if 3.2 is good enough for the new Tivos I'm curious as to what would hold it up for the 60 hour models.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe there's some data structure or format change in 3.2, even if a user-transparent one, and Tivo hasn't gotten the 3.0->3.2 upgrade process ironed out yet.

Posted by: vman41

Maybe it is just easier to coordinate sending a new master disk image to the manufacturer than an upgrade rollout to the installed based. Maybe they have a capacity problem in their servers and are waiting for an upgrade of their own. Maybe they reserved a teleworld spot for it at a certain date and were ahead of schedule.

It's all kind of pointless to speculate.

Posted by: TiVoPony

quote:
Originally posted by DrStrange
Except that SAs are different hardware platforms than DirecTivos, and Series 2s are different hardware than series 1s so testing and releasing the software for each model separately makes sense. But the 80 hour and 60 series 2 are supposedly the same hardware except for the hard drive, so if 3.2 is good enough for the new Tivos I'm curious as to what would hold it up for the 60 hour models.

Ahhh...I see the confusion.

The hardware is not quite the same. Oh, it's the same chips (well, some small changes, but nothing to do with the video). Hence my answer "it's the software". But it's a new, smaller board. So yes, there's a lot of testing involved.

The question I'd been asked was "is the picture quality difference hardware or software". Not "is it the same hardware". ;)

Well, given that picture quality is subjective, there's always some of that too. YMMV. But I think it looks better.

So, this release is the same as any other we've done for any new platform. There's a manufacturing release, and then soon after that there is a customer release. That's the plan here...but I can't reveal just when the customer release will be.

And so the holiday-guessing begins. ;)

Cheers,
Pony

Posted by: markp99

Get your *holiday* votes in for the 3.2 Customer Release:

1. Thanksgiving
2. Halloween
3. Hanukkah
4. Christmas
5. New Years Day

Posted by: zaknafein

quote:
Originally posted by markp99
Get your *holiday* votes in for the 3.2 Customer Release:

1. Thanksgiving
2. Halloween
3. Hanukkah
4. Christmas
5. New Years Day

Columbus Day

Posted by: belunos

quote:
Originally posted by zaknafein

Columbus Day

Dark elf fan?

Posted by: mae

Will it also:

1) Roll out to Series 1 (Sony)?
2) Improve picture quality on S1?

Thanks!

Posted by: andyf

I don't think so. Changes to the service agreement would indicate that Series 1 units are done with updates.

Posted by: trojanrabbit

quote:
Originally posted by mae
Will it also:

1) Roll out to Series 1 (Sony)?
2) Improve picture quality on S1?

Thanks!

1) Don't know....
2) S1's use a different MPEG encoder and have been tweaked via software updates for some time. I doubt there's much more that can be coaxed out of it. So the answer here is probably no.

Posted by: Glen Graham

quote:
Originally posted by markp99
Get your *holiday* votes in for the 3.2 Customer Release:

1. Thanksgiving
2. Halloween
3. Hanukkah
4. Christmas
5. New Years Day

6. Labor Day

(2003)

:D

Posted by: jmoak

andyf,
Are you basing your statement of:
"Changes to the service agreement would indicate that Series 1 units are done with updates"
on the section of the service agreement paraphrased by TivoPony @ http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...threadid=74914:

"- We have included language that states that not all DVRs will have the same functionality moving forward. For example, there may be features available for the TiVo Series2 DVR that are not available on other DVRs."

Are you taking this to mean that there will be no more updates at all to the series 1 boxes?

If this was not what you were talking about, can you point me in the right direction?

not that it would bother me, as long as they don't start taking things away!
:)

Posted by: Dennis Wilkinson

quote:
Originally posted by andyf
I don't think so. Changes to the service agreement would indicate that Series 1 units are done with updates.

I think the service agreement changes may imply that S1 boxes won't get any new features (or, might stop getting new features in release or so); I don't think it means that they'll stop getting updates. It is beneficial to TiVo to have a smaller set of software versions to support, even if that version runs with a smaller subset of features on older systems.

Posted by: Dennis Wilkinson

Oh, yeah... Thanksgiving.

Posted by: trojanrabbit

Well, anything that involved the USB ports, or the Real Networks stuff, would be something that would not be supported in the S1. But if there was something that provided more ways to push 'yellow star' things or other changes that affected scheduling / guide data / etc, I doubt that would be held back from S1 unless the hardware was not capable (CPU speed, memory) of supporting it.

Posted by: andyf

quote:
Originally posted by jmoak
andyf,
Are you basing your statement of:
"Changes to the service agreement would indicate that Series 1 units are done with updates"
on the section of the service agreement paraphrased by TivoPony @ http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...threadid=74914:

"- We have included language that states that not all DVRs will have the same functionality moving forward. For example, there may be features available for the TiVo Series2 DVR that are not available on other DVRs."

Are you taking this to mean that there will be no more updates at all to the series 1 boxes?

If this was not what you were talking about, can you point me in the right direction?

not that it would bother me, as long as they don't start taking things away!
:)

Yes, that was what I was basing my assumptions on. Dennis probably summed it up better. If more revenue can be created by updating the s/w then S1 boxes would probably be updated, however the much anticipated show sharing across multiple TiVos and remote web programming as stated in the NY Times article a while ago will be the exclusive domain of the Series 2 boxes.

Posted by: the fury

Tivo sounds great! In order to control my ATT cable box, I would have to buy a low capacity hard drive model that has worse picture quality! What a deal. From the standpoint of someone who is trying to determine what to purchase, TivoPony's coy routine some across very distastefully. Is this the great customer relations I had heard about?

Posted by: markp99

quote:
Originally posted by the fury
Tivo sounds great! In order to control my ATT cable box, I would have to buy a low capacity hard drive model that has worse picture quality! What a deal. From the standpoint of someone who is trying to determine what to purchase, TivoPony's coy routine some across very distastefully. Is this the great customer relations I had heard about?

Fury,

1. You are aware that you DO NOT need to buy the AT&T-branded TiVo to run with AT&T cable service.

2. HDisk capacity is increasing (see recent threads) and certainly upgradable.

3. Series 2 PQ is clearly addressed in v3.2

4. TiVoPony will divulge only as much as he chooses to. How often do you get feedback from product marketing AT ALL on other appliance devices? I can't think of any. Quite unique for TiVo to *mingle* with customers at all.

Posted by: trojanrabbit

quote:
Originally posted by markp99

Fury,

1. You are aware that you DO NOT need to buy the AT&T-branded TiVo to run with AT&T cable service.

2. HDisk capacity is increasing (see recent threads) and certainly upgradable.

3. Series 2 PQ is clearly addressed in v3.2

4. TiVoPony will divulge only as much as he chooses to. How often do you get feedback from product marketing AT ALL on other appliance devices? I can't think of any. Quite unique for TiVo to *mingle* with customers at all.

1. Uh, yes you do if you want serial control. Don't hold your breath waiting for non AT&T units to do it.
2. OK, but why not offer an AT&T unit like that, for those who won't/can't tinker.
3. OK
4. or is allowed to, but agreed.

Posted by: feldon23

You can buy "drop-in" hard drive upgrades for the AT&TiVo. Buy it, open the case, plug it in, close the case, you're done.

Posted by: the fury

1. I want serial control.

2. I don't want to play doctor on my electronics.

3. PQ is addressed in the 80hr versions, and, tickle tickle, hint hint, might be upgraded to the other boxes by a, hee hee, holiday.

4. Feedback that consists of innuendo and vagueness is harldy that impressive. I suppose some might feel "cool" to be privy to some "inside" information. But from what I can tell, he basically now, perhaps less so in the past (I am not going to drudge through archives), merely confirms the ovbious. Of course Series2 Dtivo boxes are coming sometime. Of course, PQ will eventually be upgraded.

Forget it.

Posted by: willardcpa

quote:
"merely confirms the ovbious."

Well, I for one am happy that someone at last confirmed the "ovbious".;) :D

Posted by: feldon23

quote:
2. I don't want to play doctor on my electronics.

You won't add better tires to your car?
You won't add better speakers to your stereo system?

Posted by: Squeak

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23

You won't add better tires to your car?
You won't add better speakers to your stereo system?

Neither instance voids your warranrty, or involves opening up a case with an unshielded power-supply.

It is overwhelming for some people.

Posted by: the fury

Yes, yes, I spelt sumthing rongh. ;)

Posted by: DeckerSyn

Series 2 SA 60 Hr @ $331.92

Posted by: alexjohnson

Do new 60 hour series 2 at least come with 3.0 pre-installed now?

Posted by: bookrats

quote:
Originally posted by alexjohnson
Do new 60 hour series 2 at least come with 3.0 pre-installed now?

The one I bought last Friday had 2.0.x installed on it. Upgraded to 3.0.x after I activated the service plan.

Posted by: feldon23

quote:
It is overwhelming for some people.

The idea of paying $100 for 20GB additional storage is MORE overwhelming for me. :)

Posted by: TiVoPony

Coy or not, I'm done discussing the new system for the moment.

There are things I'd love to chat about. But the new model isn't fully released yet. A small trickle of units got out there just a bit ahead of schedule.

The new model will be a popular topic. I know that. But until we're ready I won't be saying much more about it.

It won't be long. ;)

Cheers,
Pony

Posted by: Crrink

Is the infamous channel 27 problem fixed?

Posted by: sbourgeo

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony
Coy or not, I'm done discussing the new system for the moment.

There are things I'd love to chat about. But the new model isn't fully released yet. A small trickle of units got out there just a bit ahead of schedule.

The new model will be a popular topic. I know that. But until we're ready I won't be saying much more about it.

It won't be long. ;)

This could lead one to speculate that there is more than just a capacity increase and a minor hardware tweak going on here...

Maybe software release 3.2 has some latent new features that were supposed to be available by the holiday season and are just waiting to be activated? :)

Steve

Posted by: marlborobell

quote:
Maybe software release 3.2 has some latent new features that were supposed to be available by the holiday season and are just waiting to be activated?

Like officially supported Ethernet support and show-sharing? Indeed, could show-sharing be something that is enabled if you pay an extra monthly fee for it?

Oh well, we'll see soon enough I guess...

Posted by: Albert

quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
Is the infamous channel 27 problem fixed?

Yes, it was fixed in my 80 hour unit.

Posted by: phone1

quote:
Originally posted by Albert

Yes, it was fixed in my 80 hour unit.

What is your input? (Analog cable, cable with box, etc.)

Edit: Albert, I saw your post in another thread, sounds like it's fixed - thanks!

Posted by: Albert

quote:
Originally posted by phone1
What is your input? (Analog cable, cable with box, etc.)

Edit: Albert, I saw your post in another thread, sounds like it's fixed - thanks!

No problem. I use analog cable with no cable box. RF into the TiVo.

Albert

Posted by: Crrink

I wonder if Pony, or any other TiVo person will chime in to let us know if the Ch. 27 fix was SW or HW related? I have another week to return my 60 hour unit for a better functioning 80 hour unit, but I think the 80 hour units are back ordered, which would leave me without TiVo for some time - not a good option.
If there's the possibility that this problem will be fixed, then I'll just keep the 60, but TiVo seems to be pretty tight lipped about this one :(
This blows.

Posted by: phone1

Well, the problem is definitely related to the tuner. I don't know enough about them to know if any SW tweak can fix a problem like this.

Does anybody have any ideas?

Posted by: MichaelK

if i remeber correctly YEARS ago the series 1's had a similar problem with like channle 6. THere was much bitching, tivo acknowledged the problem on the board asked for patience and then fixed it with software. So it IS possible that software can fix it.

Do a search (but i wouldnt know what to search for- sorry i came along way after and just happened to see it one by acident looking for something else...)

Posted by: c3

When I got my first Series1 two years ago, there were problems with channel 4 recorded with any video quality EXCEPT medium. I don't remember when that was fixed, but it was just a software update. My guess is tweaks to the MPEG encoder.

Posted by: phone1

quote:
Originally posted by c3
When I got my first Series1 two years ago, there were problems with channel 4 recorded with any video quality EXCEPT medium. I don't remember when that was fixed, but it was just a software update. My guess is tweaks to the MPEG encoder.

The channel 27 problem is not related to the encoder - it only affects those using RF and TiVo's tuner. People with cable boxes don't have the problem. For that matter, I don't understand how an encoder problem could be channel specific since it simply encodes the analog video signal from either TiVo's tuner or the AV or S video input.

Posted by: Crrink

I tend to agree with Phone1, though I'm no electronics expert. I really wish that someone of authority from TiVo would comment on this - I'd much rather keep my 60 hour unit than go through the hassle of exchanging it for the 80 hour. But as far as I'm concerned, I have a defective unit, so unless someone from TiVo can convince me that the defect will be fixed with a SW release in the NEAR future, my unit is going back.
I had a lot of respect for the TiVo guys that take the time to post on this forum and help us all get a little more out of our TiVo's, but their silence on this issue is quite irritating.

Posted by: TiVoPony

quote:
Originally posted by Crrink

I had a lot of respect for the TiVo guys that take the time to post on this forum and help us all get a little more out of our TiVo's, but their silence on this issue is quite irritating.

I'm afraid that your recent cross-postings regarding your system and channel 27 is the first I've heard about this. Sorry. Maybe it's old news. I don't know. First I've heard of it. Sorry if that's disappointing or irritating.

As to whether the new software will solve your issue, I couldn't say that either (obviously...as I wasn't aware of it).

Rather than assuming a conspiracy of silence, why not assume that there are a lot more of you than there are of us...and that we don't get to everything posted here. ;)

So. I'm back in the office next week. I can ask. But, have you already called customer support, reported the issue, and gotten a case number for your system? That's the official way to register and track these things.

Thanks,
Pony

Posted by: c3

quote:
Originally posted by phone1
The channel 27 problem is not related to the encoder - it only affects those using RF and TiVo's tuner. People with cable boxes don't have the problem. For that matter, I don't understand how an encoder problem could be channel specific since it simply encodes the analog video signal from either TiVo's tuner or the AV or S video input.

Just like many Series1 units with old version of software, it was also channel specific (chan. 4) using TiVo's tuner. Best and high were unwatchable, medium was acceptable, and basic was not suitable maybe for other reasons as well. No matter what was the reason, the problem was fixed through software.

Because this problem was dependent on the recording quality, I would think that has something to do with the encoder. If TiVo's software was setting up certain components (not necessarily the encoder) in a certain mode that created interference pattern at certain tuner frequency, then the problem could be solved through software.

Posted by: Crrink

Okay Pony, sorry, I thought it was a fairly well known issue. That combined with the fact that the best answer anyone's posted getting from TiVo CC is to go out and buy a signal amplifier made me think that you guys weren't too concerned with the problem.
I can call CC, but I bought my 60 hour on 9/6, which means I have to let the retailer know whether I want to return it or not before 10/6 - not too much time.
If calling CC will help, I'll be glad to - I can probably do it after work tomorrow.

Thanks for checking in to this.

-Chris

Posted by: dgh

quote:
Originally posted by c3
Because this problem was dependent on the recording quality, I would think that has something to do with the encoder.

The two are not that easily separated by observation of the picture ie:

TiVo's tuner may have certain performance limitations that show up as noise on one or more channels.

The noise is high frequency and random. MPEG isn't built for random so it encodes badly.

TiVo's lower encoding qualities appear to do some low-pass filtering. This decreases the amount of detail that needs to be encoded and also removes high frequency noise.

So, it's possible to "fix" a tuner/noise problem by selecting a different encoding quality or by having TiVo adjust the low pass filtering for higher quality settings.

Posted by: phone1

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony
I'm afraid that your recent cross-postings regarding your system and channel 27 is the first I've heard about this. Sorry. Maybe it's old news. I don't know. First I've heard of it. Sorry if that's disappointing or irritating.

As to whether the new software will solve your issue, I couldn't say that either (obviously...as I wasn't aware of it).

Rather than assuming a conspiracy of silence, why not assume that there are a lot more of you than there are of us...and that we don't get to everything posted here. ;)

So. I'm back in the office next week. I can ask. But, have you already called customer support, reported the issue, and gotten a case number for your system? That's the official way to register and track these things.

Thanks,
Pony

If look at this thread you'll see that many of us have called CC about this, to the extent that it is a "known issue". Thanks for any light you can shed on it!

Posted by: tbh999

quote:
Originally posted by markp99
Get your *holiday* votes in for the 3.2 Customer Release:

1. Thanksgiving
2. Halloween
3. Hanukkah
4. Christmas
5. New Years Day

6. Pearl Harbor Day

Posted by: DVDerek

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony

So. I'm back in the office next week. I can ask. But, have you already called customer support, reported the issue, and gotten a case number for your system? That's the official way to register and track these things.

Thanks,
Pony

Ahhh! Must have tivo now... can't wait! The decision would be easy if one of two questions was answered...

Is channel 27 fix a software or hardware fix? Can I fit a second drive into the 80hr model. Obviously, TivoPony can't answer the second one and we all anxiously await that answer.

Posted by: srs5694

Posts from people who've opened their 80-hour units indicate that there's no obvious mounting hardware for a second drive. I'm sure somebody will come up with a way to do this, a la the second-drive tray for Series 1 units; but it may take weeks or months before anything more than a jury-rigged system comes into being. Of course, this also assumes that the electronics and software still support two drives. I've no reason to think they don't, but it's best to make assumptions explicit....

Posted by: TiVoPony

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony

So. I'm back in the office next week. I can ask.

I've looked into it, and I don't believe the 3.2 release will eliminate the noise some people here have reported seeing on Channel 27.

It is true that a weak signal may not come through as clearly on this channel as on others. That said, if the signal is clean and strong, everything is great. We have found, as others have here on the forum, that adding a signal amplifier to your cable feed in this instance greatly improves the reception.

It's important to remember that not everyone has seen this, but if it is an issue for you, the recommended solution is a signal amplifier to boost your reception.

Cheers,
Pony

Posted by: Crrink

I have a problem with TiVo stating that this is somehow a problem with my signal strength.
If you've read the other thread, then you know that at least one of us had the cable company come out to measure, and signal strength was within normal tolerances.

My TV doesn't have this problem.

My VCR doesn't have this problem.

I have good reason to believe that NO OTHER TiVo besides the 60 hour S2 DOES have this problem, so please explain to me how it's MY signal strength that is to blame?

The people who have elected to incur the additional expense of a signal amplifier report that the problem is greatly remedied, but NOT SOLVED.
I *might* give you guys a pass if you were willing to send me a signal amplifier, free of charge, but if you're not, I'll just go ahead and return my defective unit, transfer my sub to a non-defective 80 hour unit, and skip the signal amplifier.
Fortunately I'm still within the retailer's return window - I feel badly for those of you who bought the defective units and are not able to do a return.

Posted by: DVDerek

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony

I've looked into it, and I don't believe the 3.2 release will eliminate the noise some people here have reported seeing on Channel 27.

It is true that a weak signal may not come through as clearly on this channel as on others. That said, if the signal is clean and strong, everything is great. We have found, as others have here on the forum, that adding a signal amplifier to your cable feed in this instance greatly improves the reception.

It's important to remember that not everyone has seen this, but if it is an issue for you, the recommended solution is a signal amplifier to boost your reception.

Cheers,
Pony

Thank you very much for the answer! Hmmm... 80 Gig looks pretty good right about now.... I had my mind all made up last week and they have to an introduce a new model ;)

Posted by: trojanrabbit

If, as I've suggested before, the interference on Ch27 is due to the faster processor, then unless they can change the processor speed with software, it can't be fixed through software, disguised maybe by softening the picture, but the interference is still there. Unlike a VCR or TV, this tuner has to coexist with a computer running on the same board. Compare it to a TV tuner in your PC, I'm sure there's at least one channel that will have interference problems.

It might be possible to add shielding or filtering to really fix it, but unless they did a new PC board design for the 80Hr, it isn't cost effective for them to rework older boards to make the change.

If I had a series 2, I'd find out for myself what's going on...

Posted by: phone1

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony

I've looked into it, and I don't believe the 3.2 release will eliminate the noise some people here have reported seeing on Channel 27.

It is true that a weak signal may not come through as clearly on this channel as on others. That said, if the signal is clean and strong, everything is great. We have found, as others have here on the forum, that adding a signal amplifier to your cable feed in this instance greatly improves the reception.

It's important to remember that not everyone has seen this, but if it is an issue for you, the recommended solution is a signal amplifier to boost your reception.

Cheers,
Pony

So there are no plans to find a fix? I have a hard time with the "weak signal" arguement. Why are people from all over the country with different cable providers all getting a weak signal on the same channel?

The amplifier didn't "fix" the problem. The lines are still there, just less pronounced.

We had a poster here who bought the 60 hour unit and saw the problem. He returned it for an 80 hour and the channel was clear. It's also fine on my Series 1.

As to some not seeing it:

- They use a cable box or satellite instead of the tuner.
- They either do not receive or do not watch Ch. 27.

So what did TiVo do to the new Series 2 that fixed this problem?

Posted by: jackcs

I have a 60 hour series 2 with the channel 27 problem. Since channel 27 is the discovery channel for me, all the ads Tivo sends me have lines in them, making them basically unwatchable. Since I can't see their ads, perhaps they will want to fix mine.

BTW, the add signal amplifier "fix" is bogus, IMHO.
However, if that is Tivo's "fix", then they should send me one so I can watch their ads.

Posted by: trojanrabbit

quote:
Originally posted by phone1
So there are no plans to find a fix? I have a hard time with the "weak signal" arguement. Why are people from all over the country with different cable providers all getting a weak signal on the same channel?

The amplifier didn't "fix" the problem. The lines are still there, just less pronounced.

We had a poster here who bought the 60 hour unit and saw the problem. He returned it for an 80 hour and the channel was clear. It's also fine on my Series 1.

As to some not seeing it:

- They use a cable box or satellite instead of the tuner.
- They either do not receive or do not watch Ch. 27.

So what did TiVo do to the new Series 2 that fixed this problem?

This leads me to believe that they did make some minor changes to the 80 hour besides a bigger drive (better shielding, filtering, component selection, could even be how the TiVo is assembled - RFI is a strange beast :(). A series 1 will not have a probem because it is running at a different processor speed.

Yes, the amplifier merely overrides the interfering signal. The signal is not weak.

Posted by: Crrink

Too bad Trojanrabbit doesn't work for TiVo...sounds like he would be able to fix the problem :(

Posted by: joeandmaria

I had just purchased a Series 2 60 hr several weeks ago. I returned it an got the 80 hour unit several days ago. These are things I have noticed:

- I to had the chan 27 problem on the 60hr unit, the problem is not present on the 80 hr unit, and I do not use an amplifier.

- The 80 hour unit shipped with Ver 3.2 a day later it did a one hour download and stated it needed to restart for a software update. It now states Ver 3.2.v4-01-2-240. Was this already a patch/fix to Ver 3.2?

- I have not noticed an increase in picture quality, though I did not compare the two side by side, so maybe I just don't have a trained eye.

- My system info shows total hours variable up to 87 hours.

- The fan in back does seem to mak a big difference in temps. My 60 hour unit was located in same place (ventilation etc) The temp was usually around 45C, and was physically warm to the touch. My 80 hour unit temp is 38C !! And the unit is cool to the touch. Minor increase in noise with fan, but hardly bothersome to me.

- Now I am sure someone will figure out how to add a second drive. Worse case scenario is, if I end up needing more room I will have to replece the 80gb with a 120gb

Just my observations. Any questions, just ask I'll try to answer.

Joe

Tivo Series 2 80 hr

Posted by: DVDerek

Hmmm. Well, this is very discouraging news, indeed. So now I'm left with a decision. 60 hour Tivo, Save 60 bucks, not be able to watch channel 27 (only Disney) or the 80 hour tive, 60 more dollars, but possibly not be able to add a second drive (maybe best buy will let me rip the cover off of the 80 hour unit and take a peak :)).

I suppose I will wait for confirmation of a way to rig a 2nd HD into the 80 hour.

Posted by: trojanrabbit

Doesn't mean that the good folks at TiVo don't know what the problem is.

My experience is mostly in EMI testing (FCC / CE) for large, very expensive CAT scanners. If there's a problem, usually any type of fix I can come up with is allowable. But we're talking very small quantities of units and lots of assembly labor to begin with.

Big difference when you have a consumer unit and much larger quantities being built with very little or no profit margin, even a small amount of labor to fix something (add a shield not designed for it initially) will cost big time.

Any changes like that also mean that the unit must be retested for FCC certification, not cheap.

Posted by: Crrink

Well, IMO, a defect is a defect, and it should be fixed by the manufacturer.
Asking your consumer to incur further cost for a remedy that does not solve the problem is completely and totally unacceptable to me. I'm lucky, I can make the retailer/TiVo take their defective product back.
Others are not so lucky.
If there were a viable alternative, I'd very strongly consider not giving TiVo my business, but, just like if you get mad at the cable company, there's not much you can do but complain. I consider the costs/hassle of switching to satellite to be comparable to the hassle of switching to Replay TV....although, commercial advance and show sharing would be super cool.

Edit: Oh, and BTW, if the 'good folks at TiVo' do know what the real problem is, the LEAST they could do is send a decent signal amplifier to the affected customers free of charge. I don't know how much it would cost to fix the problem for real, but that's what they OUGHT to do.

Posted by: trojanrabbit

For some reason I missed this thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...34&pagenumber=2

where the circuit board of the 80 hour appears different than the other series 2's. There's your likely 'for real' CH 27 fix (different PCB and layout), although the real reason was likely some sort of cost reduction.

I agree, I'm not sure what the actual number of people affected by this is (doesn't seem to be a high percentage), but offering an amp might be the decent thing to do after all other avenues have been checked.

Posted by: phone1

quote:
Originally posted by trojanrabbit
I agree, I'm not sure what the actual number of people affected by this is (doesn't seem to be a high percentage), but offering an amp might be the decent thing to do after all other avenues have been checked.

I'm really wondering about this myself. There a couple of possibilities:

- They all have the problem, but the number of people who use the RF input and receive channel 27 and watch it and visit this forum are few.

- There was a production run with a batch of bad components - probably the most likely.

In either case, if it's as isolated as TiVoPony implies, (however, we're not privy as to the number of people who may have called CC about this) the costs to correct it should not be so dramatic. My concern is that the correction will require some hardware changes - the amp is not a real fix. If I had to return/exchange my (now upgraded) unit to get better reception on The Comedy Channel (my 27), I probably wouldn't bother.

The picture isn't actually all that bad now, (my wife claims she can't see it) but still noticeable to me. If it were a sports channel, it would be a much greater annoyance.

Posted by: Crrink

FWIW, I got the 3.2 software last night, and while there *might* be a VERY minor improvement in the Ch. 27 problem, it is most definitely still there.
Very disappointing.
For those of you interested, www.GoodGuys.com is doing a first rate job of keeping in touch with me on allowing my return - I know, a return isn't all that complicated, but I did bug them with a slew of questions. They've been very helpful and very responsive - just want to spread a little praise for a retailer that deserves it.
TiVo, on the other hand....... :(

Posted by: c3

Just curious. Try recording channel 27 at the 4 different quality settings and see if they make any difference.

Posted by: illuminations25

I just got a new Series 2 (60hr) for an early X-Mas present to replace my Series 1 in the living room. (I'm moving the Series 1 to my computer room.) This "recording problem" only affects channel 27 correct? I don't have any programming on a channel 27 since I have DirecTV. Just want to make sure there isn't some other "problem" that I don't know about.

Also does this only seem to be affecting Series 2 models that were made from a specified time period? (i.e.: all produced from Jan - June 2002?)

Posted by: Crrink

It only affects channel 27, and only affects it if you use TiVo's tuner - i.e. the cable coming out of your wall without using a cable/satellite box.
Since you have DirecTV, I think you'll be fine.

Posted by: illuminations25

Crrink,

Thanks for your reply. :)

Posted by: KY_SERIES2

quote:
Originally posted by joeandmaria
I had just purchased a Series 2 60 hr several weeks ago. I returned it an got the 80 hour unit several days ago. These are things I have noticed:

...

Just my observations. Any questions, just ask I'll try to answer.

Joe

Tivo Series 2 80 hr

Joe (or anyone else that knows) -

Is the external case of the Series 2 80 hr identical to the "old" Series 2 60 hr unit. Other posts have described the interal boards and layout as being different, but I wasn't clear if its outside appearance was different.

I am considering trading my 60hr for the 80hr too. My 60hr seems to run very warm, so I found the comment on temp very helpful. Thank you.

Posted by: Albert

I've had both units and the outside appearance is pretty much the same except that you can see a fan on the back of the 80 hour unit.

Posted by: esperantisto

After all this talk I thought I would check my reception on 27. I couldn't remember what was on that channel - something I never watch. Lo and behold: for me it is the TV Guide channel! No wonder I never watch it!
Sorry to those of you w/ the problem (especially if it is Discovery for you). Sounds like getting the 80hr might solve the problem.

Posted by: joeandmaria

To KY_SERIES2:

The outside case seems to be identical, except for the back which has the addition of the fan. No indecation on the outside that the unit is an 80 hr unit.

Joe

Tivo Series 2 80 hour

Posted by: Crrink

TiVoPony, do you plan on responding to my challenge that TiVo is wrong about the Ch. 27 problem being caused by poor signal strength, or are you giving me more fodder for my previous 'conspiracy of silence' argument? :)

Posted by: c3

quote:
Originally posted by c3
Just curious. Try recording channel 27 at the 4 different quality settings and see if they make any difference.

Has anyone tried this experiment?

Posted by: davezatz

Wow I'm glad I read this thread! I just ordered the 60hr model from GoodGuys yesterday and read this thread this AM...

I run the coax right into the TiVo and use the tuner. CH27 is ABC here and I tend to watch a decent amount of ABC shows and college football. So I just canceled my GoodGuys order online, and while I'd rather not spend the extra 50 bucks, I'm getting an 80GB model.

I agree with the general sentiment that the 60HR has a flaw, and buying an amplifier at my own expense to mask the problem is a pretty sad situation. For those of you affected, I hope TiVo is able to issue a SW or HW fix or offer to swap your unit with a "working" one. The times I've talked to their customer service, I've had very good luck so hopefully they will come up with a fair resolution for all.

Posted by: Crrink

I hope TiVo steps up and does the right thing too, but so far the best they've come up with is:
-It doesn't affect very many people
-go out and buy a line amplifier.
Both answers stink, if you ask me.:mad:

Posted by: cdonohue

I did get 3.2 last week and in general my video looks better. I still get some wierd blocks when news crawls go across the screen but it is diminished. I also noticed that my tivo is a little slower when you try and pull up menus... not sure if this is a new feature or not. :)

Chris!

Posted by: lethcoeb

So what is really new about v3.2?

I got the upgrade last week, and from my standpoint (average user who doesn't fiddle with this thing too much) I've noticed no real differences.
I do not notice a change in video quality.

I did notice, however, that I do not have my serial control back (trust me, I looked for it).:(

So what does v3.2 really do for us Series 2 60hr unit users?

Posted by: phone1

Overall PQ noticeably better when watching/recording action/sports in best quality for me.

Posted by: Shemp

This is ridiculous. Tivo must offer a remedy for those of us affected by this (Channel 27) problem. I get the feeling they are hoping we'll all go away. This is very frustrating as I reported the problem to them days after receiving my Series II back in March. At the time they assured me is was a software issue; more specifically an issue that would be resolved with a software update. I expressed my desire for a quick determination of whether it was a hardware or software issue since if it was a hardware issue I would be returning my Series 2 within the 30 day return window.

Here we are nine months later and it has become very obvious Tivo cannot resolve this issue via software and continue to pass it off as a weak signal problem.

I would love to know the extent of this problem. I know there's a poll in this forum where people can indicate if they have the problem. However, the number of people responding to this poll is rather small.

I encourage all those with the problem to stay on Tivo's case -- don't let them stonewall us.

- Shemp

Posted by: Crrink

Shemp,
I've been doing my best to make any potential buyers of 60 hour units aware of this problem, but one guy posted in this thread that his 60 hour doesn't have the problem.
This is the first time I've heard of someone not being affected by it, but I'd be surprised if software fixed his problem.

I know his situation doesn't really help you out much, but I thought I'd point it out.
Good luck getting TiVo to resolve this for you - they seemed awfully uninterested when I was trying to resolve it - fortunately for me, I was able to exchange my unit for an 80 hour....no thanks to TiVo.

Posted by: markp99

Huh?

I have a 60hr unit (now upgraded). NEVER had any problem w/Ch27...or any other channel...

Posted by: phone1

quote:
Originally posted by markp99
Huh?

I have a 60hr unit (now upgraded). NEVER had any problem w/Ch27...or any other channel...

Are either one of you using the RF input to TiVo?

:D

Posted by: Shemp

Crrink,

Based on the post you reference and some others I've seen, there are some 60 hour Series 2 owners with a Channel 27 issue and some with no problem. As has been speculated by others, the problem may have been resolved part way through the production run. This whole thing seems very fishy . . .

- Shemp

Posted by: allan

I lucked out. I have the 60 hr unit, but CH 27 isn't anything important (I forget whether it's the Spanish station or MTV).

Posted by: markp99

I swear I did NOT post that msg twice!! Really!!

Posted by: Shemp

quote:
Originally posted by markp99
I swear I did NOT post that msg twice!! Really!!

Until my Channel 27 clears up I'm blaming the double post on a 60 hour Series 2 bug.

- Shemp

Posted by: gschare

I just bought a 60 hour series 2 from Best Buy. It's working great ... but it says the software version is 2.0.3-02-2-1F0. Is this an old unit or do they all ship from the factory with this version?

How do I go about upgrading to the latest software version? I've been looking around on these threads, bit the answer hasn't jumped out at me.

thanks.

Posted by: c3

Just force a call after the guided setup is done, and the unit will download the latest software.

Posted by: gschare

Thanks. It connected during the night last night and upgraded itself. For some reason it didn't do that the first night when it initially connected. I guess it's supposed to work that way.

Posted by: radio.joe

quote:
Originally posted by markp99 Quite unique for TiVo to *mingle* with customers at all.

Very true. Makes it more of a perk or a privilege.

Just my thought.

Joe