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Angel #4x01: "Deep Down" (SPOILERS)
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Posted by: Pan Chun

I've really been looking forward to tonight's episode of Angel. Here's the TiVo description: quote:
Fred and Gunn frantically hunt for clues to their friends' whereabouts; an eyewitness to Angel's plight is murdered.
Not much to go on!

Thought a recap of the events at the end of LAST season would be in order. Darla bore Angel a son...an event that was unprecedented. Even stranger, he was perfectly human. Wesley translated a prophecy and learned that "The father will kill the son". So he attempted to take the kid into hiding, but Angel's enemies (both from the Wolfram & Hart Law Firm and an old vamp hunter from Angelus's past named Holtz) double-teamed the situation and took the kid, slitting Wesley's throat. This created a horrible rift between Wes and Angel.

Meanwhile, Holtz managed to get Angel's kid (a form of justice for Holtz, since Angel killed his entire family some 200 or so years earlier) and, with the help of a demon named Sahjahn, took the kid into a sub-universe that could not be re-accessed. Sahjahn, able to shunt himself through time, admitted that HE had managed to alter the prophecy and FAKE it so it looked like Angel would kill his kid. The prophecy REALLY said that Angel would kill Sahjahn! :eek:

So Holtz has the kid (named Connor) for about 3 or 4 weeks "real time", but suddenly the kid comes back and he's about 15 or 16 years old...a real vamp-killing badass! Time passes differently in the other dimension, so at Holtz's behest (the kid thinks Holtz is his father), "Stephen" NOW wants to kill Angel.

Down to it: Holtz tells Angel that he wants HIM to have his kid back. He SEEMS sincere. Afterward, Holtz has himself killed...and makes it LOOK LIKE ANGEL did it. Since the only father he ever knew was killed by his "real father", Stephen (now calling himself Connor again) decides to do in Angel. He traps him in a sealed tomb and sinks him to the bottom of the ocean...where he will not die, but will be "eternally imprisoned".

Meanwhile, Cordelia...who had a bit of a "demon infusion" to help control the pain of her visions...decides she wants to tell Angel she loves him. On her way to do so, "Skip the Demon" appears to her and tells her she has a much higher calling. So while Angel is sinking to the depths of the ocean, Cordy is rising high into the sky. Wesley is healing, but bitter...and considering working for Wolfram and Hart. Lorn ("The Host") has gone off to Vegas to help out a friend and perform for a bit. So only Fred and Gunn remain behind at Angel Investigations to sort things out and get things back on track!

I'm sure I've left a thing or two out...if you catch it, add it below. Otherwise, even though it's in a deadly TIMESLOT (Sundays at 9ET), hopefully tonight's episode will rock! :) :up:

Posted by: Mars Rocket

uhhh...I haven't been watching Angel for a while, and with plot complications like that it doesn't seem very likely that I could start now.

Posted by: UnionBuster

Well, I'm planning on starting tonight, after seeing only one episode. So here's hoping my cable doesn't look like crap tonight.

Posted by: JYoung

couple of nitpicker corrections....

Angelus and Darla killed Holtz's family and the prophecy Sahjahn altered stated that the son of the vampire with a soul will kill Sahjahn.

Looking forward to this although I still believe that the WB is trying to kill Angel.

(oh, I still think that the prophecies apply to Angel and not Spike...)

Posted by: Pan Chun

quote:
Originally posted by Mars Rocket
uhhh...I haven't been watching Angel for a while, and with plot complications like that it doesn't seem very likely that I could start now.

Well, my re-cap covers over half an entire season...it's not like it's just the past episode! I was afraid to dive in...I started midway last season. Now I've seen all of the first and third seasons, plus half of season 2. It's MUCH better than I expected it to be! :)

Posted by: Pan Chun

Wow...just watched this episode. I'm SHOCKED at some of the "goings-on" involved!

Didn't expect Wesley would be the one who finds him...didn't think Angel would still ACCEPT Connor...didn't think Lila would become "top dog" in her division at Wolfram & Hart...didn't expect that the ENTIRE EPISODE would "rock"! But it DID!

Good stuff from Joss & Co...I'm truely enjoying it all! Keep it coming, love! (As K.C. & the Sunshine Band might say)! A great episode with very satisfying results from the previous episodes. :up: :up: :up:

Posted by: Cathy/Vik

quote:
Originally posted by Pan Chun
didn't think Angel would still ACCEPT Connor

I, on the other hand, was suprised when Angel told him to get out of his house. I mean, Angel knows Connor was mind-f**ked over years by Holtz, then by Kristine.

My spoilery comments:

Buffy so far isn't WOWing me. I mean, Spike, I love of course, but on the whole, no...

ANGEL on the other hand! WOW!!! All the wacky dream like things!? Kick butt! Am I the only one who thought when Fred zapped Conner that it was a dream of Conner's??? That was fantastic!!

And Angel's whole "Sit. Down." "You're too weak to take me." "You think so...?" *sits down* LOL! Yeah! Go Daddy!! And when Conner tried to leave and Angel threw him against the wall and said "Daddy's not done talking." That was AWESOME!!!!

"I love you. Now get out of my house."

I wanted to echo what so many people seemed to complain about w/Buffy last wk re: Willow's role: "Contractual appearance much?"

Justine... No thoughts yet as to what will happen w/her. There's so much more to keep my brain wrapping around! Lila, Wes, & Conner.... Oh my!

I was TOTALLY not expecting the Lila thing! That dude (whose name I never remember) better watch out! He's already made an enemy of that woman....

So much angst for ALL the characters! Did Joss write this ep??

Posted by: Lori

quote:
Originally posted by chris1

Of course not. It's too good to be Joss's work. He only writes the crap on Firefly these days.

It was actually written by Steven S. DeKnight, who has written several Buffy eposides over the last few seasons, "Dead Things" and "Seeing Red" among them.

Posted by: JYoung

Liked it. (and the last line had me laughing out loud)
No easy answers and an interesting set up for the Search for Cordelia.
Looks to me like Wes needs to forgive himself.
I'm still not buying the Gunn/Fred relationship though.
Loved that line about my girlfriend putting me in a hell dimension for a hundred years.

(and where can I get Palm Pilot like Lila's?)

Posted by: DanT

quote:
Originally posted by Pan Chun
Well, my re-cap covers over half an entire season...it's not like it's just the past episode! I was afraid to dive in...I started midway last season. Now I've seen all of the first and third seasons, plus half of season 4. It's MUCH better than I expected it to be! :)

Seeing as how they've only aired 1 episode from Season 4, I'm guessing that's a typo. Did you really mean you'd seen half of Season 2?

By the way, I liked the episode, I didn't like the dreams (although I did think the Fred stun-gun bit was a dream at first, so that worked). I'm also afraid they're just gonna bring Cordy back and forget about the whole "higher being" thing. I hope they don't just explain it away, but after hearing that contract negotiations were the reason they "wrote her out" during the finale of last season, makes me fearful of how they're gonna handle her return.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I have to say, the scene where Angel confronts Conner is the first time in the character's history where I truly believed this guy is 200 years old.

(It doesn't hurt that Boreanaz has lost most of that pudge he's been building the last few years...)

Posted by: sschwart

Awesome episode... Glad I got my TiVo up and running before it came on (drive died while I was on vacation, came home to a "Welcome...Powering up"... so much for half the shows I watch premiere's).

I'm still mulling over the Wesley/Lilah/Justine thing... I'm suspecting there's more to it than we've been told.

-Steve

Posted by: harvscar

Does anyone know if Groo is coming back? Seems like they need to tie up that loose end.

I've not been surprised like I was at this episode for awhile. The scene where Wesley opens the closet after Lila leaves, HFC! Between this, Practice and Sopranos, Sunday night was :up::up::up: for TV watching. The whole scene with Lorne backstage was priceless too.

Posted by: Pan Chun

quote:
Originally posted by DanT
Seeing as how they've only aired 1 episode from Season 4, I'm guessing that's a typo. Did you really mean you'd seen half of Season 2?

Correctamundo! And they said you'd never be able to extrapolate! ;) (I went back and fixed that post...thanks!) :)

quote:
I'm also afraid they're just gonna bring Cordy back and forget about the whole "higher being" thing. I hope they don't just explain it away, but after hearing that contract negotiations were the reason they "wrote her out" during the finale of last season, makes me fearful of how they're gonna handle her return.

Well, of course Charisma Carpenter was all over the episode last night in the dream sequences, so she's clearly along for the ride. :)

I'm afraid Connor's speech patterns bother me a bit...he was raised for what, 15 years in a hell dimension by someone from the 18th century. So he's been in L.A. for just 3 months of his life and using terms like "But it WAS cool, wasn't it?"

While the line was really rather funny, it doesn't ring true with the character for me. Even when he first appeared (as a teen), he seemed to take modern L.A. very much "in stride"...at least, more than someone experiencing THAT AMOUNT of major culture shock ought to, yes? :confused:

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Apparently, the whole Cordy thing from last year (she was gone for a month or so, and possibly written out of the show at the end) was the result of personal problems that made the producers lose confidence in her ability to continue in the role. (Chemical problems, one might assume.) Since then, she has apparently regained their confidence and is back for the forseeable future.

Posted by: Vesper

I also really liked this episode.

Now, if only WB would put this in a better timeslot. Sopranos and Alias for competition? Are they crazy? This is the only time during the week when I have to break out the VCR. (Sopranos I catch later during one of it's 30 reruns.) And I REALLY don't like using my VCR.

- Mike

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

...and Criminal Intent. Fortunately, I have a DirecTiVo (formerly 2 SAs), so I can get Alias and Angel on time, and Sopranos and CI during later viewings.

I thought when X-Files went away, Sundays at 8 would loosen up a bit, but NOOOOO!

Posted by: Lori

quote:
Originally posted by Vesper
I also really liked this episode.

Now, if only WB would put this in a better timeslot. Sopranos and Alias for competition? Are they crazy? This is the only time during the week when I have to break out the VCR. (Sopranos I catch later during one of it's 30 reruns.) And I REALLY don't like using my VCR.

- Mike

Sounds like *somebody* needs another TiVo. ;)

Posted by: Fleegle

... OR somebody needs a better TV service. I get HBO's East and West coast feeds, so I watch The Sopranos at 6:00pm pacific time. :D :D

Posted by: Vesper

quote:
Originally posted by fleegle
... OR somebody needs a better TV service. I get HBO's East and West coast feeds, so I watch The Sopranos at 6:00pm pacific time. :D :D

I already have that! As I said, I record Sopranos later. The problem is Alias vs. Angel.

A second Tivo, on the otherhand.. Hmm... ;)

Posted by: grins

What's with Tammy Faye Fred, though? She's wearing as much makeup as Lorne.

I'd been wondering if it were me. So many of the shows I watch have started off badly; Will and Grace jumping the shark with yet another guest star arc, Sopranos developing conflicts but not resolving anything, West Wing allowing a private lawyer into the war room and allowing someone that threatened the president into the Oval Office, Alias, well Lena Olin's good, but the hot-girl-in-wig-running-to-techno, thing, ya know, btdt,

Thank God for Joss. Firefly wowed me, Buffy's positioned well, and this season of Angel looks like it's really going to rock.

Posted by: Attack

Alias, Angel and Sorpranos on Sundays and SmallVille, Haunted and 24 on Tuesdays is why I am going to get a 3rd TIVO

(ARGGG NO LOCALS ON DTV)

Posted by: Cathy/Vik

quote:
Originally posted by harvscar
Does anyone know if Groo is coming back? Seems like they need to tie up that loose end.

Um, not to sound like an idiot, but WHAT loose end?
He realized she loved Angel and left.
What's not tied up?

Of course, if he DOES show up again, I won't be upset cuz Groo is HOT! :p

Posted by: Pan Chun

The groosalug is SUCH an idiot...but he's an ENTERTAINING one! :)

Posted by: buffan

I'm glad Charisma Carpenter is back. Cordelia is the most entertaining character on the show; Fred, Gunn, and Conner are no match for her. I'm going to miss Lorne, though. I didn't like him at first, but he turned out ok.

It will be interesting to see how the Cordy/Angel relationship ends up, since Angel can't ever have a moment of true bliss.

Mini-spoiler for next week's episode (from the preview shown at the end of last night's episode so it's probably not really a spoiler):

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)

So what's up with Angel's heart beating in next week's episode?

Maybe they're going to try to end the whole gypsy curse thing somehow. Nah...

Posted by: Graymalkin

Just watched "Angel." Cordelia's remark at the end of the episode made me ROFLMAO.

She stole that line from Willow, didn't she? :D

Posted by: Pan Chun

quote:
Originally posted by buffan
I'm going to miss Lorne, though. I didn't like him at first, but he turned out ok.

I don't believe he's gone permanently...! :)

Posted by: DanT

No, Lorne probably isn't gone permanently, but he's no longer a regular. The way I heard it, he wanted to leave. Probably got tired of sitting through all that makeup, and then not getting any recognition (in public) for it.

And buffan, I want to thank you for putting that in spoiler tags (whatever it is) because I absolutely hate spoilers of any kind, and I don't even watch previews for shows I know I'll be watching (pretty much my SP list) or even previews of movies once I've made up my mind to see it. I've just been burned too many times by having things spoiled by commercials/previews/trailers that I avoid them at all costs. So thank you. (Although I do wish you'd put your last line within the spoiler tags, as it gives me something to think about.)

Posted by: Pan Chun

BTW, there's a really REALLY nice Angel website with detailed synopses and character/cast bios, etc. at www.cityofangel.com. I just bookmarked it...there's a TON of interesting stuff there.

Posted by: harvscar

For complete episode descriptions, you can't beat Angel's Acolyte. No Angel fanatic should be without this site. The obsession runs deep. :)

Posted by: Fleegle

quote:
Originally posted by Vesper

I already have that! As I said, I record Sopranos later. The problem is Alias vs. Angel.

A second Tivo, on the otherhand.. Hmm... ;)

...Assuming your locals are available on DirecTV, Why not get a DirecTiVo? As soon as all the Phoenix locals were up on the bird, I snagged a DTiVo. 2 tuners: No waiting! Of course, the monthly charge is almost 1/3 the cost of a stand-alone, and there's no additional charge for additional units, and there's no IR Blaster delay.

Posted by: mschwab

Or Dish Superstations - Angel's on at 7, 8, and 10 PM!

Posted by: Vesper

quote:
Originally posted by fleegle

...Assuming your locals are available on DirecTV, Why not get a DirecTiVo? As soon as all the Phoenix locals were up on the bird, I snagged a DTiVo. 2 tuners: No waiting! Of course, the monthly charge is almost 1/3 the cost of a stand-alone, and there's no additional charge for additional units, and there's no IR Blaster delay.

I'd like to, but I'm in a North facing apartment in Wisconsin. When I get a house (hopefully next year some time), I plan to switch over to DirecTivo.

- Mike

Posted by: Fleegle

I thought ny stand-alone was great until I got teh DTiVo. The difference between the two is almost a big as the difference between a VCR & a stand-alone!

Posted by: Pan Chun

The difference is like going from SP/VHS to the SA/TiVo. ;)

Posted by: Freki

quote:
No, Lorne probably isn't gone permanently, but he's no longer a regular. The way I heard it, he wanted to leave. Probably got tired of sitting through all that makeup, and then not getting any recognition (in public) for it.

Lorne has never been a regular. He was in most of the episodes last season, but he never had his name in the opening credits, he was just listed as a guest star.

Posted by: Dawghows

quote:
Originally posted by Vesper
...Sopranos and Alias for competition? Are they crazy- Mike

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
...and Criminal Intent.

quote:
Originally posted by Attack
Alias, Angel and Sorpranos on Sundays and SmallVille, Haunted and 24 on Tuesdays is why I am going to get a 3rd TIVO

Angel and L&O Criminal Intent are being "repurposed" already, according to my TiVo listings. (L&O:CI is at 11pm Fridays on USA; can't remember the timeslot for Angel, but I can find out when I get home this afternoon.)

Smallville is rebroadcast on the WB itself on Sundays at 5pm. No idea about Haunted, 'cuz I don't watch it.

I watch Alias, Angel, L&O:CI, The Sopranos, and Smallville, and so far have not needed my VCR yet this season. (Smallville is not a conflict for me, but I happened to notice they're running it twice a week.)

EDIT: I am pretty certain that Alias is scheduled to start on ABC Family sometime in the next week or two, as well.

2ND EDIT: I just found out that the Angel rebroadcast in my area is on one of my local FOX affiliates, but not on the other. Obviously, that would indicate that it's the affiliate's (and not the network's) rebroadcast, so it may or may not be available to you in your area.

Posted by: Pan Chun

Yes, I also have Angel at two different times, but that's because I get the WB affiliate from NYC on local cable (sadly, in Monaural sound :( ) plus the local FOX station runs it later at night (they move all the WB shows to different timeslots). Sometimes it's great, but other times it's very unreliable thanks to unannounced programming changes (like when FOX Sports run long...I only got half of last night's Smallville for that reason :mad: ).

Posted by: Mike20878

quote:
Originally posted by fleegle
... OR somebody needs a better TV service. I get HBO's East and West coast feeds, so I watch The Sopranos at 6:00pm pacific time. :D :D

Can't get much better if you're already on the east coast. :) I can wait to see Sopranos so I have a wishlist to record it later on one of the other feeds.

Mike

Posted by: Mike20878

quote:
Originally posted by fleegle

...Assuming your locals are available on DirecTV, Why not get a DirecTiVo? As soon as all the Phoenix locals were up on the bird, I snagged a DTiVo. 2 tuners: No waiting! Of course, the monthly charge is almost 1/3 the cost of a stand-alone, and there's no additional charge for additional units, and there's no IR Blaster delay.

Grrr...I wish I had an option for dual tuners. My wife works for cable so we get everything free. No incentive to pay for the Dish (her competition).

Mike