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Firefly #1x06 "Shindig" (Spoilers!)
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Posted by: Pan Chun

"While at a ball, Mal unwittingly challenges Inara's "date"; a merciless crime lord takes Serenity's crew hostage."

Or

"While at a ball to arrange a transport job, Mal defends Inara's honor, but unintentionally challenges her date, Atherton Wing, to a duel. Inara must then teach Mal how to use a sword, while the rest of the Serenity crew are taken hostage by the ruthless crimelord Badger."

Discuss! :)

Posted by: Lori

I Love This Show!! :) :D

Posted by: Dweller

Ahhh its friday :)

My wednesday to sunday schedule always throws me off. I will stop back in toniht or tomorrow when I have a chance to see the latest episode.

Posted by: Pan Chun

I SO hate Enterprise, especially compared to this show!

God! I'm a 30+ year "Trekkie", gladly willing to sacrifice this CRAP "Trek" for this new "usurper". I'll take it! I'm not PROUD!! :)

Posted by: harvscar

Enterprise is total gos se compared to Firefly. :D

Posted by: ClutchBrake

Enjoyed it. Especially liked the older gentleman coming to the aid of Kaylee.

Posted by: lordsutch

Another great episode; however, a few comments:

1. Why did the pool table scene have goofy sound effects? They were using wooden pool cues, normal tables, and normal balls, so why the "space age" effects for bounces and hitting the balls?

2. Chinese seems to be awfully widely used despite the relative paucity of people of apparent Chinese decent. Perhaps this is just a fashion thing, however; advertising-type things seem to be in Chinese, and Chinese styles seem to be adopted by some of the nouveau-riche (like the guy who ran the mud-farming colony), but English seems to be used for "practical" things like computer displays.

3. Well, we now know that Kaylee has a full name, and it's bigger than she is. :) I thought the snippet with her "shop talking" about engines with a dozen men at the ball was priceless. (IMHO Mal danced with the wrong woman there, but maybe he didn't see last week's thread...)

4. From what I've seen of the Alliance, they don't seem all that bad (with the exception of whatever happened to River) compared to what the outer planets' "powers that be" do to people (slavery, torture, etc.). Then again, I don't know what the Independents wanted either.

Anyway, another great episode.

Posted by: Pan Chun

Ah, but they WEREN'T 'normal balls' as evinced by the flickering hologram effect and the "Management not responsible for ball failure" sign (in English AND Chinese)! So THAT explains the sfx! ;)

We just haven't yet seen the Chinese-users en masse yet. We might never do so, considering we're English speakers as a whole and it might just be intended as "flavor".

Loved Kaylee at the ball doing "shop talk".

The Alliance, as far as I can tell, is sort of "impotent" on the "outer planets", simply because they can't afford the expense of concentrating their efforts there. Don't sell them short...as the "jobs" near the "inner planets", the Alliance WILL be more of a threat! :eek:

Posted by: lordsutch

Ah, I didn't catch the hologram effect; I'll have to rewatch the opening scene, as I wasn't paying full attention when it started. :) Now it makes more sense.

Posted by: buffan

I love this show, also. I'm going to be really bummed when the clowns at Fox cancel this like they canceled my previous favorite "western" (Briscoe County) several years ago.

Based on the cargo that they're carrying now, I think that the card games are going to get pretty brutal...

"I'll 'see' your 'garbage' and raise you a day of picking up cow$%#@."

Posted by: JYoung

I did see some Asians at the Ball and in the street so Persephone isn't totally homogenous. I did like how Zoe and Kaylee got mad at Mal for belittling the fancy dresses and how the crew spent some of their downtime.
Kaylee's pronounciation of Mandarin "Thank You" was atrocious though.
I loved Mal's line about how a great man shows mercy then stabs Atherton a bit saying "Maybe I'm only a good man." :D

Posted by: DLiquid

This was a good one. I didn't expect the cow thing at all :D.

Kaylee's poor Mandarin skills can make perfect sense if you think of it within the context of the show. Maybe she didn't learn it in school or something like that.

I liked the gadgets: pool table, chandelier, weapons detector. :up:

Posted by: RGM1138

Well, I'm liking Kaylee more each week. She's a spark plug. And quite charming.

And it was a nice surprise to see that Larry Pennell is still alive. He was the older man who came to Kaylee's rescue at the ball. Most of the people here are probably too young to remember, but he was in a series about crime-fighting skydivers called Ripcord back in the early '60's. He also did a stint on Beverly Hillbillies as Dash Riprock.

The holo-billiard balls seemed a bit of a stretch. Why would you consume so much power to create a $2 cue ball? Unless they have no resins or plastics on NuEarth.

BTW, when are we going to see the backstory on River and the blue hand people?

Bob

Posted by: Jonathan_S

One thing that annoyed me; the guns had 'powering up' sound effect. Kinda a standard sci-fi energy weapon sound effect, a soft 'zzzzzzt' noise. Except that they appeared to be standard gunpowder based weapons and also had bolt noise when being armed.

It was just a bit distracting and unnecessary.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Could be that Kaylee's Mandarin is flawless; languages change over time... :D

Posted by: vman41

quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan_S
One thing that annoyed me; the guns had 'powering up' sound effect. Kinda a standard sci-fi energy weapon sound effect, a soft 'zzzzzzt' noise.

It does seem nonsensical. Maybe it's just a glitz feature, like putting
a spoiler on a passenger car.

Didn't the weapons on Mel Brooks' "Spaceballs" do the same thing?

Posted by: dmdeane

I'm begining to think the use of Chinese is another attempt to give the series a heavy "Western" flavor; if you were out West in the late 1800's, you'd see a lot of Chinese in gold mining camps and on railroad crews. Perhaps we will see some "coolies" running around in straw hats in future episodes....or maybe not.

Why a holographic pool table? Why do people play video games that mimic the old pinball games?

Posted by: dmdeane

quote:
Originally posted by lordsutch
From what I've seen of the Alliance, they don't seem all that bad (with the exception of whatever happened to River) compared to what the outer planets' "powers that be" do to people (slavery, torture, etc.). Then again, I don't know what the Independents wanted either.

The outer planets are poor and lacking in technology, and lack the protection that the Alliance is supposed to be giving them (as was indicated in the first episode "The Train Job"; what few Alliance soldiers that are around are not there to protect or help the locals).

As usual, the flow of tax money and benefits flow from the outer to the inner areas of the "empire", "alliance", or whatever you choose to call it.

Also, as apparent from the conversation with the people at the pool hall/bar, slavery is apparently legal in the Alliance, and used when necessary where indentured or free labor is not practical, so there really isn't any difference that I can see between inner and outer areas of the Alliance in this regard.

On this particular planet for this episode - Persephone? - the Alliance is not much in evidence at all; all we see are civilians at a ball, civilians on the street, etc.

Interesting that they are used to dueling in the upper levels of society. This is unusual and runs against the grain of Firefly's "Western" theme: usually, by the time central governments are stamping out local autonomy, they are also busy stamping out aristocratic holdovers like dueling, and replacing it with centralized policing.

Think, for instance, of the acceptance of dueling in America pre-Civil War and post-Civil War.

Posted by: LoadStar

quote:
Originally posted by PanChun
I SO hate Enterprise, especially compared to this show!

I'm with you, PanChun! I SO hate Life with Bonnie, especially compared with this show! ;-)

Sorry, Pan Chun, but we know you dislike Enterprise at this point. Must you bring it up at every point and in virtually every thread? Kinda getting old... I don't particularly see what your dislike of Enterprise has to do with this show, besides that they're both Sci-Fi shows.

Anyway. That said... I watched this episode after last week's stellar episode, and... eh. I again wasn't all that impressed by this episode. The pacing seemed a bit slow, although the characters on this show continue to be well developed, a hallmark of a Joss Whedon show.

And again, after last week's more space oriented episode, this ep goes back to beating you about the head with the "It's a WESTERN, stupid!!!" concept with the dress and dancing styles at the ball. Ok, we get it, it's a western.

I guess I'd personally be happier with a western that doesn't go out of it's way to scream it's a western - like, for example, the ball could've been shown with some of those "slinky dresses" they talked about and some swank suits instead of the big poofy dresses, just as an example.

I'm not going to fault the show, really, for not being a space show or being anything other than a western. It's true to it's core concept, and consistent (with the exception of last weeks episode). Unfortunately, it seems the core concept doesn't appeal to me... it just seems overly heavy handed, to the point of distracting from the plot and character development for me. *shrug*

(Edited to fix quoting)

Posted by: Dweller

quote:
Originally posted by LoadStar
Sorry, Pan Chun, but we know you dislike Enterprise at this point. Must you bring it up at every point and in virtually every thread? Kinda getting old... I don't particularly see what your dislike of Enterprise has to do with this show, besides that they're both Sci-Fi shows.

Being another 30+ year trekkie that is finally seeing the light I can understand.

For the first time in my life I have a Trek show that I dont like and a new sci-fi show that I love to replace the void of losing Trek.

The King is dead! Long live the King!

:p

Posted by: stormsweeper

As to Mandarin: last week the automatic "please turn on your life support system" message was in both English and Mandarin.

The ball itself wasnt very Western; it was far more early colonial period. They weren't square-dancing, certainly. The swords themselves were a hybrid - rapier-like hilts, but a saber-like blade.

Posted by: Idearat

quote:
Originally posted by stormsweeper

The ball itself wasnt very Western; it was far more early colonial period. They weren't square-dancing, certainly.

Funny you should mention it, but when they first started dancing and Mal said something like "I know this one", they were square dancing.. Allemande Left, Dosado, Promenade and all that.

The music wasn't typical, and there was no caller, so I think they were going for subtlety.

Posted by: Sinuralan

Found it just a tad boring on the whole, but it had some enjoyable moments. I can deal with a slightly boring episode now and then.

Posted by: Dweller

Fiannaly was able to sit down and watch it last night.

I will spare everyone my lunatic fanboy ravings and leave it at "another enjoyable episode" :D

I loved the line about "a dozen slaves a dozen days to get you to look like that and a shoolboys wink to get you out of it" (or whatever the specifics were) I was lmao at that line.

Posted by: dmdeane

quote:
Originally posted by stormsweeper
The ball itself wasnt very Western; it was far more early colonial period. They weren't square-dancing, certainly. The swords themselves were a hybrid - rapier-like hilts, but a saber-like blade.

Actually, they looked like classic rapiers - not the foil-like Hollywood rapiers of the movies, but actual, 15th and 16th century rapiers, whose blades were wide enough for slashing or thrusting. In fact, they might have purchased them from some place like http://www.museumreplicas.com/ - for example, something like this: http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi...1650.storefront (okay, that won't let me link directly, but follow it to swords, then look at the rapier examples in the catalog).

Am I the only one who saw this scene and instantly thought of the 18th century dueling scene from the original Highlander movie?

Posted by: TimC

It was not American square dancing, it was what square-dancing came from. This was the kind of dancing done in Europe to what we now call classical music. When settlers came over to America and then later moved out west, the European traditions were modified.

The settlers wanted to dance things like minuettes, but often had difficulty remembering the intricate series of moves for all the different dances. The caller evolved from folks with better memories reminding others which move came next. The music also had to change because your typical settler town could not put together an orchestra to play the type of classical music normally used. They had to make due with what they had.

Modern square dancers watching court dancing in England or France in the 17th and 18th centuries would recognise many of their moves.

Similarly, a lot of Irish and Scottish (among others) settlers concentrated in the Appalacians and their folk dancing evolved into clogging.

Posted by: TiVoLance

Well I thought the episode was "ok". I just don't get the rave reviews. Ya its worth a season pass but it's not that great. But then again maybe I'm just bitter because they keep adding more western stuff ;)

PS I HATED that dress. Can-Can-Can indeed.

Posted by: mattdrury

That was my first Firefly and I've SP'ed it. Whatta hoot. Just the right mix of high-tech and rustic - reminded me of the steampunk genre.

Kaylee: nice dress. I mean it.

Posted by: sschwart

The show definately has potential... I'm not sold on it yet. Intruigued enough to keep on watching, though. :)

And Kaylee's damn cute :)
-Steve

Posted by: dcheesi

I personally thought the holo-billiards was cheesy, kind of like the holo-window in "The Train Job". The only reason that I can think of for using fake balls is that it makes them harder to steal or lose, which could be a problem in a dingy dive like that.

I was also of the impression that slavery was officially legal, not just tolerated locally. I'm hoping that this is the case; having the Rim worlds as the slavers would be taking the Civil War parallel too far, IMHO.

Mal's sword was not a rapier; it was more like a straight-bladed sabre. AthenWhosit's sword looked like an oversized rapier, but IMHO the blade was too wide, more like a hybrid sword-rapier. IIRC, pure rapiers were meant for thrusting only, although they usually had sharpened sides (why not?).

Posted by: grins

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
Kaylee's pronounciation of Mandarin "Thank You" was atrocious though.

Hey, J, I've heard it as sheh-sheh (which was how it was represented in closed captioning) before...is the atrociousness because it's supposed to be the 'hs' sound, rather than 'sh'?

Incidentally, is trainman here? I thought it was cool how the captioner tried to maintain alignment between the line and either Mal or Inara as they were rotating during their dance. I hadn't realized the art involved before.

t

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by grins
Hey, J, I've heard it as sheh-sheh (which was how it was represented in closed captioning) before...is the atrociousness because it's supposed to be the 'hs' sound, rather than 'sh'?

Then it wasn't Mandarin that you heard. Kaylee emphasized the long e sound on it when it should have been short e.
Believe you me, this was one of the first phrases I had to learn with my grandfather.

Posted by: stormsweeper

It could have been very crappy Cantonese, rather than very crappy Mandarin. ;)

*tries to remember the other major dialect*

Posted by: spelcheker

This show is so good, it got me to get off my arse and join this community so I could talk about it.

I love it when a good non-trek scifi show comes along, just to show that all scifi doesn't have to cater to kids, or have every episode be a morality play.

Best things about this show:

1. No sound effects in space. FINALLY!
2. No cute kids. (w.crusher)
3. No cute animals.(dog on enterprise)
4. No cute robots.(anyone remember buck rogers? dweedle-dweedle)
5. No cute aliens.(jar-jar,neelix,etc..)
6. No mixing of the inter-stellar and inter-galactic scales. (trek does it right, andromeda screws it up.)

Worst things about this show:

1. Once again, the most incredible future invention of man, control over gravity, is only used to...well, make gravity. (B5 is the only show that ever did this correctly)
2. They do try too hard to add western elements sometimes.
3. Does anyone else think there are too many characters? I may change my mind on this one.
4. It will be cancelled after one year, just like "Space, Above and Beyond", also by Fox.

But the coolest thing is that we finally have another show that asks the eternal question...

Ginger or Mary Ann?

Posted by: mattdrury

quote:
Originally posted by spelcheker
Once again, the most incredible future invention of man, control over gravity, is only used to...well, make gravity.

Now that just sucks. :)

Posted by: Airlie

quote:
Originally posted by spelcheker
2. No cute kids. (w.crusher)

I've been watching some reruns of Next Generation Trek. I stil hate Wesley but I have gained some respect for Wil Wheaton. He now has a large following on the internet.

Posted by: DaveLessnau

quote:
Originally posted by spelcheker
But the coolest thing is that we finally have another show that asks the eternal question...

Ginger or Mary Ann?

Mary Ann, of course :) .

Posted by: mattdrury

quote:
Originally posted by DaveLessnau
Mary Ann, of course :) .

Yep, that's a given. Purr.

Posted by: grins

Best part is, Mary Ann still looks hot. Ginger looks scary.

I'm actually talking about Mary Ann and Ginger, of course. Matt n Dave, are you talking about Mary Ann, or Kaylee?

t

Posted by: stormsweeper

Mary Ann (Kaylee) or Ginger (Inara)?

Both? :D

Posted by: mattdrury

Mary Ann and Kaylee, please, if you don't mind. :D

Posted by: AJRitz

I guess I'm the odd man out here then - 'cause I prefer Mary Ann and Inara, but hey, even if three's a crowd, who said crowds were so awful - Kaylee can play too :-)

Posted by: vman41

Inara has a better body, but Kaylee a prettier smile.

In the "Jaynestown" episode, Kaylee looked awful in those overalls. I kinda suspect the actor is pregnant.

Posted by: DaveLessnau

quote:
Originally posted by grins
are you talking about Mary Ann, or Kaylee?

Mary Ann and Kaylee. They're both in the same role: supposed second fiddle. The bit in the engine room where Kaylee first gets on the ship sort of ruined it for me, though.

Posted by: Sirius Black

quote:
Originally posted by vman41
In the "Jaynestown" episode, Kaylee looked awful in those overalls. I kinda suspect the actor is pregnant.

Not that it is impossible or anything but Jewel Staite is 19 or 20 (born in 1982). I seriously doubt that she is pregnant.

As for the western stuff, I throughly enjoy it. Star Wars was a space western and no one seemed to have a problem with its dingy bars and Han Solo's obvious good guy in black role.

Also, I think Joss is better than just to make it a western. I think it is more of a romance - and I don't mean a love romance. I mean from that time period. Anyone who isn't liking the western stuff shouldn't watch this weeks episode (from what I saw of the preview).

Posted by: dmdeane

quote:
Originally posted by dcheesi
Mal's sword was not a rapier; it was more like a straight-bladed sabre. AthenWhosit's sword looked like an oversized rapier, but IMHO the blade was too wide, more like a hybrid sword-rapier. IIRC, pure rapiers were meant for thrusting only, although they usually had sharpened sides (why not?).

Mal's sword may not have been what modern fencers call a "rapier", but what modern fencers call "rapiers" has very little to do with actual, historical rapiers, just as modern fencing "sabres" bear little or no relation to actual, historical sabres.

Yes, Virginia, that was a rapier in Mal's hand. Check out the Museum Replicas catalog if you don't believe me. The swords they sell are copies of actual, historical weapons from museums and private collections. These are weapons which were used to fight wars and duels; they are not modern sporting devices, which is what modern fencing equipment is.

Posted by: spelcheker

One thing this Ginger has that the original Ginger doesn't, training in the arts of pleasing men. If she can turn on the charm like the undercover "companion" in the episode where Mal got a wife, it would be hard to turn that down. That girl made my pants go so crazy it took me 2 months to track them down... found them living in a shack in Montana.

Posted by: murgatroyd

quote:
Originally posted by RGM1138
And it was a nice surprise to see that Larry Pennell is still alive. He was the older man who came to Kaylee's rescue at the ball. Most of the people here are probably too young to remember, but he was in a series about crime-fighting skydivers called Ripcord back in the early '60's.

Whoa! I used to watch Ripcord. Now there's something that would be fun to see on TV Land....

Jan

Posted by: Airlie

quote:
Originally posted by dmdeane
Mal's sword may not have been what modern fencers call a "rapier", but what modern fencers call "rapiers" has very little to do with actual, historical rapiers, just as modern fencing "sabres" bear little or no relation to actual, historical sabres.

Yes, Virginia, that was a rapier in Mal's hand. Check out the Museum Replicas catalog if you don't believe me. The swords they sell are copies of actual, historical weapons from museums and private collections. These are weapons which were used to fight wars and duels; they are not modern sporting devices, which is what modern fencing equipment is.

Fencing? ooh! I fence!

And you are right, modern sport fencing has very little in common with 'life and death' swordfighting.

Posted by: TreborPugly

quote:
Originally posted by stormsweeper
Mary Ann (Kaylee) or Ginger (Inara)?

Both? :D

You guys are forgetting Zoe! Sure, she's married, but who needs a navigator?

Treb.

Posted by: zechman

So does that make her Mrs. Howell??? :D

--Dwayne

Posted by: stormsweeper

Does that make Jayne Gilligan???

Posted by: mostman

For me, the decision is easy, I like the smart, nerdy, hot enough to smoke paint off a chevy - type

I know we had this in the last thread - but I think we need it again.

http://users.ev1.net/~alternity/tv/actors/jewel_staite/photos/publicity/Jewel_45.jpg

Show has it all - I am telling you - has it ALL.

-Mike

Posted by: Faro

What happened to the old opening intro?!?!?

Posted by: coldtoes

quote:
Originally posted by Faro
What happened to the old opening intro?!?!?

I like the new one much better -- it's more representative of the show's personality.

I've read a number of references, so I wonder, did anything interesting happen in the first 7 minutes? TiVo had a little altercation with the IR blaster, so until I intervened, it was recording some not-Firefly program. My recording started when Inara was watching the proposal before Atherton's. Did I miss anything good?

Posted by: dumbunny

quote:
Originally posted by spelcheker
One thing this Ginger has that the original Ginger doesn't, training in the arts of pleasing men. If she can turn on the charm like the undercover "companion" in the episode where Mal got a wife, it would be hard to turn that down. That girl made my pants go so crazy it took me 2 months to track them down... found them living in a shack in Montana.

No training? What about the sexy music soundtrack that played whenever Ginger was working Skipper, Gilligan, or the Professor? Only very high quality companions get them. Does Inara have a sexy music soundtrack? Did "Mrs. Reynolds" have one?

Didn't think so.

Posted by: ClutchBrake

I just saw Inara in a Secret deodorant commercial! :D

Posted by: DanT

You watch commercials!?! :o

Posted by: ClutchBrake

quote:
Originally posted by DanT
You watch commercials!?! :o

No way! I was carrying my clothes to the laundry room while live TV was on. :cool:

Posted by: SachinM

Does anyone know when they are going to air the "official" first episode, when the Dr & River come on board? That's the episode they were advertising in the first place prior to the season premier.