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Now *That* Was a Good Episode of Enterprise
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Posted by: Demandred

Discuss. :)

Posted by: imadork

Yeah, it was one of the better ones.
It was ten times better than that stupid dog episode.

I'm not much of a fan of this series, but it's my wife's favorite.

Posted by: martinp13

It was it was! Aside from Trip being more of an idiot than usual, and the show being a bit predictable, I enjoyed watching it. One thing that I can't remember is:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
do their weapons have a STUN setting? Surely the Vulcans can set to stun, and it seems like he wasn't dead at the end. If so, why didn't they just stun him before he dropped thru the trap door? I know, I know... we had to have the Dramatic Climax That Resembled The Memory Sequence where she could shoot him. :)

On a side note, next week's show looks like a setup for some pre-Prime Directive festivities. :)

Posted by: jcramos

Thanks for the spoiler, I just got home and im going to watch it now. So your saying it a good one tonight.

Posted by: martinp13

The title doesn't warn for spoilers, so I didn't want to ruin it for others.

Posted by: avaloncourt

I thought we were going to have some of the same old things coming at the end. First Archer said T'Pol was going to have to go through decontamination then he said they were all going to have to be decontaminated. I thought for sure we were going to have another 3-way rub down in the Blue Sauna.

Posted by: Cletus

I have no major objections to this episode.

Posted by: TiVoLance

Anyone else have flashbacks to Voyager "Latent Image".

Posted by: JYoung

(I'm surprised that they haven't filed a lawsuit yet ;) )

Good episode of Enterprise, which means another mediocre episode of Star Trek
Archer jumps on the table and whistles, making himself a prime target as gets shot at. He could have been killed.
Mayweather captures Menos how?
They don’t search Menos when they handcuff him? What if he had been carrying weapons.?
Trip can’t handle making minor command decisions. What did he do in the Academy in the leadership training courses? Salivate over catfish?
Why doesn’t Trip simply tell the Vulcans that Archer’s sick and can’t come to the bridge?
After Menos kicks over the table (good job, Travis), and runs out of the bar, Archer and company chase him across the landing pad which they couldn’t cross before because it was coated with acid.
Archer and company can’t stun Menos before he drops through the hatch
Vulcan weapons don’t have stun settings?
HOLOGRAPHIC WALL!!!!!!! ARRRGGHHHH!
And, of course, Vulcans acting like emotional humans. I would have loved Bruce Davison’s performance if he wasn’t supposed to be playing a surgically altered Vulcan. Even after years of undercover work, I felt that he was waayy too emotional.
This could have been a far more interesting episode if it had been Archer or Reed hunting the criminal and dealing with their guilt at killing a man with T’Pol being the rational advisor, but that’s probably to complex for Beavis and Butthead.
(and yes, there were elements of Latent Image there)
Grade C- only because the music was better this time around.

Posted by: vertigo235

Yeah the whole stun thing got to me too, I kept saying STUN HIM!

I'm guessing that the older vulcan weapons didn't have stun, thats why the dude thought it ment she had to kill him. who knows

Posted by: Bryanmc

SPOILERS FOLLOW:

Not much, but wanted to be fair.

When T'Pol came back from searching the guy's ship Archer says, "You'll have to go through decontamination when we get back to the ship."

I kept waiting for him to say, "Um...I'd better go search the ship too, just to make sure."

Of course, later he made sure that everyone knew a rub down was coming. "We'll ALL have to go through decontamination when we get back!"

Heh. Heh.

I liked this one. It was nice to see Blalock (or however you spell it) get a chance to act. Whether it fit with a Vulcan or not it a different discussion, in any event I thought she did a good job with this show.

Posted by: dcheesi

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
And, of course, Vulcans acting like emotional humans. I would have loved Bruce Davison’s performance if he wasn’t supposed to be playing a surgically altered Vulcan. Even after years of undercover work, I felt that he was waayy too emotional.

I didn't have a problem with the emotional vulcan. Remember, vulcan emotions can be pretty strong once they're released, and I doubt that this guy has been doing his meditations every day. He's had no contact with vulcans, and no reason to act like one, for a very long time. Also:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
For most of the episode he's putting on an act. It shouldn't be hard for someone with emotional control to learn how to act out false emotions; normal vulcans just don't have any reason to try. Except for spies like him, of course.

Posted by: martinp13

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
Good episode of Enterprise, which means another mediocre episode of Star Trek
<snip laundry list>
Grade C- only because the music was better this time around.

The characters did a lot of stupid things in this episode, but we've been shown that's Standard Operating Procedure for them. Although it annoys me, if it's "how it's supposed to be for now", then it Makes Sense. I can't really fault them for that. These are certainly not the polished interstellar crew members of TNG.

God help Archer if T'Pol ever loses it... he is so damn condescending to her 90% of the time. As Cartman says "I'm gonna kick you in the nyuhhhts!" :)

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by dcheesi
I didn't have a problem with the emotional vulcan. Remember, vulcan emotions can be pretty strong once they're released, and I doubt that this guy has been doing his meditations every day. He's had no contact with vulcans, and no reason to act like one, for a very long time. Also:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
For most of the episode he's putting on an act. It shouldn't be hard for someone with emotional control to learn how to act out false emotions; normal vulcans just don't have any reason to try. Except for spies like him, of course.

Of course that doesn't explain T'Pol's emotionalism. She was blubbering like a baby in some parts.

quote:
Originally posted by martinp13
The characters did a lot of stupid things in this episode, but we've been shown that's Standard Operating Procedure for them. Although it annoys me, if it's "how it's supposed to be for now", then it Makes Sense. I can't really fault them for that. These are certainly not the polished interstellar crew members of TNG.

No wonder the Vulcans look down on humans and think we're stupid. WIth Archer and Co., they've got all the proof they need. You saw my list of OMGWAI moments. ;)

It's one thing for the crew to naive and inexperienced in interstellar travel, it's another thing for them to be downright stupid, especially when they don't learn anything from it.
Enterprise is the first deep space exploration vessel from Earth. It's supposed to be staffed with Earth's best and brightest. In this episode, Archer and crew are making mistakes that LA beat cops wouldn't make. I can't see why Archer was picked to command this mission other than "My daddy built the ship" (especially in the last three episodes). And I guess Trip only got the chief engineer's position because he's Archer's buddy. He's not displaying any command/management skills (although Beavis and Butthead did manage to slip in a poop joke) in this episode. Either that or the Academy manages to excel out graduating idiots.
It all comes back to lazy writing (take two parts Voy:Latent Image, one part TOS:Obsession, mix).
BTW, I wouldn't accept this behavior on Andromeda either (you should see some of the blunders Dylan Hunt has pulled this season). I might accept it on seasons 2&3 of Lost in Space (the campy years).

And I still have a hard time believing that the more advanced, pacifistic Vulcan didn't have stun weapons 17 years before the humans. I might have bought the whole killing thing if they were engaged in hand to hand combat and T'Pol accidently pushed Jason over a cliff or something.
It still would have been far more interesting if Archer had killed someone and had to deal with the consequences, therefore learning something from it. Another opportunity squandered.....

Posted by: RGM1138

Crap. I keep forgetting that the rest of the world gets ENT on Wednesday, while I have to wait until Saturday, 11:00pm, when the local FOX affil. plays it back on one of those hay-bailers they call a VTR. :)

I almost jumped into a spoiler, thinking that you guys were still talking about last week's ep.

If I could request, would everyone mind starting the thread with the title and/or ep number in the header?

I appreciate it, cuz some days, I'm just not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Know whut I mean, Vern? :)

Thanks.

Bob

Posted by: tonyoci

I thought the episode was good but a little "cowardly" to reveal him as a smuggler at the end. It would have been more "interesting" if they had left that more open to our own decision.

T

Posted by: allan

Gripe Alert: This has nothing to do the show, but the picture on channel 29 in Kansas City, MO was total CRAP!!! It's stunk in the evenings for months, but last night was the absolute WORST!! WTF is wrong with it??

Posted by: martinp13

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
Enterprise is the first deep space exploration vessel from Earth. It's supposed to be staffed with Earth's best and brightest.

No, it's staffed with people he could grab "in the next two days". :) Remember in Broken Show... I mean Broken Bow? He had to assemble the team in a hurry.

quote:
I can't see why Archer was picked to command this mission other than "My daddy built the ship" (especially in the last three episodes). And I guess Trip only got the chief engineer's position because he's Archer's buddy. He's not displaying any command/management skills (although Beavis and Butthead did manage to slip in a poop joke) in this episode.

"My daddy built the ship"!!!! ROFL! AMEN! :) Even Scotty could get serious and accomplish something when he HAD to. Trip is forever a sidekick. :(

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by martinp13
No, it's staffed with people he could grab "in the next two days". :) Remember in Broken Show... I mean Broken Bow? He had to assemble the team in a hurry.

I think that Enterprise left Spacedock a couple of weeks early but it seemed like Archer pretty much had his crew together (except for the Science officer, the CMO, and the XO) and even went to the Amazon to get Hoshi. Certainly it would be a tad on the dumb side for Starfleet to tell Archer to continue out from Kronos without a full crew complement... ;)

Posted by: kiljoy

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung:
After Menos kicks over the table (good job, Travis), and runs out of the bar, Archer and company chase him across the landing pad which they couldn’t cross before because it was coated with acid.

What about BEFORE that when T'Pol went to search the ship? Um, if you could just do that, why not do it earlier? Once you get to the ship, why search an unlocked storage locker? Just look in the big crates in the middle, since if you're smuggling, you always put the important stuff in plain view.

And of course, even my GF, who is NOT well-versed in the Trek universe, said, "Why not just stun the guy until it's time to leave?"

I'm not too awful picky about why-didn't-they-just's, since you never know if the character would think of the thing at the right time. But continuity and trueness to the universe is another matter. Like what happened to the restraint Menos was wearing? Did it just fall off? Or, if the energy to the holowall was there, why didn't a routine tricorder scan detect it? And it's a particularly good thing that the biotoxin vials were clearly labeled. That way, everybody knows exactly what's in suspicious, glowing containers.

I've got to say, though, that I do enjoy the show. Even bad Star Trek is worth watching once. Although I might be saying that because I watch Law & Order immediately following it, and it cleanses the palette.

Posted by: Cletus

quote:
Originally posted by kiljoy
And it's a particularly good thing that the biotoxin vials were clearly labeled. That way, everybody knows exactly what's in suspicious, glowing containers.

<Homer> Mmmmm.....plutonium.....! </Homer>

:D

Posted by: holee

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci
I thought the episode was good but a little "cowardly" to reveal him as a smuggler at the end. It would have been more "interesting" if they had left that more open to our own decision.

T

I was the opposite. I thought it'd have been weak to have him revealed as an innocent man. I'm glad he was guilty at the end.

Posted by: tonyoci

quote:
Originally posted by holee
I was the opposite. I thought it'd have been weak to have him revealed as an innocent man. I'm glad he was guilty at the end.

I did not mean "reveal him as innocent" I meant leave it open and let us viewers decide.

T

Posted by: holee

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci
I did not mean "reveal him as innocent" I meant leave it open and let us viewers decide.

T

I could see that. I was a little curious as to why Archer was so by the book, insisting that they had to bring him in. I'd have thought for sure he'd be all for the fugitive and insist that they re-investigate and free him.

Posted by: RGM1138

Okay, I finally watched this ep. And the local FOX station that runs is not making it a pleasant experience. The audio drop outs on 1 channel really make it hard to stay in the story.

Anyway, I thought it was average. One thing that still bothers me is Archer's pissy attitude when things don't always go his way. He's coming close to number one in the bad attitude department, Col Jack O'Neill. :)

Anyone else catch Captain Tavek's gaffe? [To Trip]: "You seem very young for a Starfleet Captain." There's no Starfleet yet. That comes later.

Ya know, I don't hate this show for what it is. I'm just disappointed that it's not as good as it could be.

Enterprise is like a race horse with a fine lineage. It's just not living up to it's potential.

Maybe B&B should explore hiring other writers. That seems to have done wonders for other Trek incarnations.

Bob

Posted by: Mars Rocket

Eh, this episode didn't suck, but that's about the best I can say about it. Most of my gripes have been brought up by others above.

But...what's up with that hatch in the floor? It's a SPACE ship, right? And it's got a hatch that leads out to SPACE right there in the middle of the floor? One that can be opened by merely pulling up on a handle? Sheesh....

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

Well, it already has one door that can be opened by pushing a button. Presumably there are safety locks when there's vacuum (or possibly any hostile environment) outside. And it IS a smuggler's ship...

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by RGM1138
Anyone else catch Captain Tavek's gaffe? [To Trip]: "You seem very young for a Starfleet Captain." There's no Starfleet yet. That comes later.

You're thinking of The Federation.

Starfleet exists now, the Federation comes later.

No screw up by the Vulcan.

Posted by: RGM1138

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
You're thinking of The Federation.

Starfleet exists now, the Federation comes later.

No screw up by the Vulcan.

Ummm. I've always thought that Starfleet was an arm of the FED. I realize that Earth in ENT's time has a few warp-capable ships, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't refer to themselves as Starfleet yet.

I'm also fairly sure that the Vulcans wouldn't consider Earth part of Starfleet, even if there was one already. You know, seeing as how they don't even want Earthers in space yet. :)

Bob

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by RGM1138
Ummm. I've always thought that Starfleet was an arm of the FED. I realize that Earth in ENT's time has a few warp-capable ships, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't refer to themselves as Starfleet yet.

Ummm, have you been watching this show? They refer to Starfleet all the time.

Here's a selection from the Star Trek web site talking about the first episode of Enterprise:

Starfleet's Vulcan advisors tried to take charge and handle this interstellar incident themselves, but the captain assigned to command the NX-01, Jonathan Archer, insisted that it was the humans' responsibility to return this alien to his homeworld alive. Over the Vulcans' objections, Starfleet granted Captain Archer permission to launch early, his first mission being to take the Klingon, named Klaang, to Kronos.

Edit -
and another:

Thus the captain was faced with an enormous moral dilemma, and after much consideration in the lack of any guiding principles from Starfleet, Archer opted with a heavy heart to withhold the cure from the Valakians.

Posted by: RGM1138

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
Ummm, have you been watching this show? They refer to Starfleet all the time.

Here's a selection from the Star Trek web site talking about the first episode of Enterprise:

Starfleet's Vulcan advisors tried to take charge and handle this interstellar incident themselves, but the captain assigned to command the NX-01, Jonathan Archer, insisted that it was the humans' responsibility to return this alien to his homeworld alive. Over the Vulcans' objections, Starfleet granted Captain Archer permission to launch early, his first mission being to take the Klingon, named Klaang, to Kronos.

Edit -
and another:

Thus the captain was faced with an enormous moral dilemma, and after much consideration in the lack of any guiding principles from Starfleet, Archer opted with a heavy heart to withhold the cure from the Valakians.

Okay, then yet another blatant disregard of cannon by B&B. I have, somewhere, a book written back in the '60's that includes an interview with Roddenberry explainig how Starfleet is a creation of the Federation. Hell, I even have one of the first tech manuals published on Trek.

I'd be much more inclined to believe GR than either Berman or Braga rewriting history.

Bob

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by RGM1138
I'd be much more inclined to believe GR than either Berman or Braga rewriting history.

Wouldn't that be rewriting the future? ;)

You'll get no argument from me that Roddenberry is a better source of the "facts" that the Idiot Brothers B. However, he's gone and to the best of my knowledge there was never a clear explanation about the formation of Starfleet in any of the shows or movies.

So there isn't anything canonical about that particular thing for them to screw up. To the best of my knowledge, I could be forgetting something.

Posted by: TiVoLance

Maybe I'm enjoying the show because I don't care one bit about the "history" or "timeline". It's just a entertaining show and in my book so-so Trek is better than no Trek.

Posted by: Mazon

I didn't get a chance to watch it, and when I was cleaning off my TiVo for the week, I deleted it! What the hell was I doing?

Posted by: RGM1138

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
Wouldn't that be rewriting the future? ;)

Okay, let's compromise with future history. :)

quote:

You'll get no argument from me that Roddenberry is a better source of the "facts" that the Idiot Brothers B. However, he's gone and to the best of my knowledge there was never a clear explanation about the formation of Starfleet in any of the shows or movies.

So there isn't anything canonical about that particular thing for them to screw up. To the best of my knowledge, I could be forgetting something.

Yes, it's true that Paramount has given the keys to the kingdom to Berman and his ilk. And they're now able to back-engineer the Trek Universe any way they see fit.

One day, when I get ambitious enough, I'll go digging through the boxes of material I've saved, (some of it since the '60's), and find the info that I mentioned earlier.

Until then, trust me now and believe me later, the Truth . . . is out there. :)

Bob

Posted by: vman41

There was book, called "Star Trek Chronology", by Michael and Denise Okuda in 1993. The rule they used for accepting something as 'canon' in the chronology was that it was established by an episode in the one of the series or one of the movies. Things said by producers or writers aren't official, but they may be mentioned. Even with this rule, though, they did use subtle inferences at times to get dates and had to use their own judgement to resolve conflicts.

War between Earth and the Romulans will occur in the years 2156-2160. The Federation will be formed in 2161, Starfleet Academy will be established the same year (they assume Starfleet establishes at the same time as its academy). The Prime Directive won't appear until sometime after 2168. The Federation and Klingon Empire won't be adversaries until 2218 (after a disastrous first contact with them!).

By 2040, television no longer survives as a significant form of entertainment (done in my TiVo, no doubt).

Posted by: chris1

quote:
Originally posted by vman41
War between Earth and the Romulans will occur in the years 2156-2160. The Federation will be formed in 2161, Starfleet Academy will be established the same year (they assume Starfleet establishes at the same time as its academy). The Prime Directive won't appear until sometime after 2168. The Federation and Klingon Empire won't be adversaries until 2218 (after a disastrous first contact with them!).

Since Enterprise's first season was supposed to take place in 2151, I guess we will be seeing a war between Earth and the Romulans during the sixth season.

Posted by: RGM1138

quote:
Originally posted by vman41
There was book, called "Star Trek Chronology", by Michael and Denise Okuda in 1993. The rule they used for accepting something as 'canon' in the chronology was that it was established by an episode in the one of the series or one of the movies. Things said by producers or writers aren't official, but they may be mentioned. Even with this rule, though, they did use subtle inferences at times to get dates and had to use their own judgement to resolve conflicts.

There was also a collection of guide lines, (sometimes referred to as 'The Bible') written by Roddenberry during TOS. It was given to new writers before they wrote scripts for Trek.

IIRC, David Gerrold (The Trouble with Tribbles), wrote about it in his book, The World of Star Trek, (1973).

I believe that would be the original canon. :)

Bob