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When Did Enterprise Jump the Shark?
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Posted by: JYoung

Ok, cheap thread but since there isn't a new episode tonight, I'd thought that I'd throw this out,

When did Enterprise jump the shark for you? When did you realize that it was taking a real nose dive in terms of quality and B&B were just marking time?

For me, there are actually three moments:

1. The Andorian Incident. When Archer discovers the listening post, a Vulcan monk pulls a phaser on Archer and threatens to kill him! Archer then drops the Vulcan with one punch to the jaw! So let me understand this, the pacifistic, honest Vulcans (who are so honest that a myth came about that Vulcans cannot lie. They even mentioned this myth in follow up, Shadows of P'Jemm!) are actually a bunch of lying weasels who are easily willing to kill humans to protect their secret. And they have glass jaws as well. :rolleyes: See what happened to Kirk in "This Side of Paradise". It was at this point that I realized that Beavis and Butthead didn't give a damn about stomping all over previous continuity.
(and when I brought this up elsewhere, the response I got was "but J, those Andorian antenna were kewl".....)

2. Oasis. Not only a replay of the DS9 episode Shadowplay, it had Rene Auberjonois in it to boot. Then Trip has the line "what are you going to do if she gets sick, program a holographic doctor?" :rolleyes: I'm sure B&B thought that they were clever when they wrote this line but I just found it insulting. It was at this point that I realized that B&B were not above blatantly recycling old scripts with poorer writing.

3. A Night in Sickbay. Where to begin on this one? Suffice it to say that this one never should have made it on to paper. It also marks the lowest Trek has ever sunk in terms of "humor" (or what passes for it in B&B's minds). I never thought that I would see the day I'd see juvenile sex jokes in Star Trek.

So when did Enterprise JTS for you?

Posted by: Skittles

For me, it was the first time I heard that awful theme song......YMMV

Posted by: Bryanmc

My choice isn't up there.

For me it jumped the shark with:

It's been a long road...
Gettin' from there to here.

Ugghh..

:rolleyes:

Edit - great minds think alike. ;)

Posted by: TiVoLance

Am I the only one that flinches when I see the phrase "Jump the Shark" used?

Posted by: Hunter Green

Look on the bright side, at least it's not "I want a pony" or "been there, done that" or "all your base are belong to us".

Posted by: Fleegle

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoLance
Am I the only one that flinches when I see the phrase "Jump the Shark" used?

The phrase Jump the Shark has jumped the shark...

Posted by: lornehosman

In order for a series to jump the shark, it has to have been good at some point.

Since it has never been good, it can never "jump".

Posted by: SammyTerry

Poll: How many Enterprise complainers do you have on your ignore list?

Posted by: ClutchBrake

I suffered through it until the episode at a Vulcan temple where Archer and others were taken hostage.

Posted by: spelcheker

:rolleyes:

For me it was when, after spending several episodes setting up Hoshi as the linguistics expert, and showing how the translator program will work, they suddenly stopped using it and could go down to strange planets and just talk to people. Or even infiltrate pre-warp cultures for a few days to see what the people are like.

Then suddenly, the translator program is there again as part of the storyline.

I give up.

Posted by: doom1701

I'm with lornehosman; it never got high enough out of the water to contemplate jumping the shark.

Posted by: Tonybeans

There must be a Fonzie to jump the shark... this show has nothing. I actually like the T'Pol character, and the doctor is at least original and well acted, but the rest are boring at best and wretched at worst.

Yet I keep watching it for some reason; I think I'm still hoping it will turn a corner. What's the opposite of jumping the shark? Enterprise needs one episode that actually makes it worth watching besides the Star Trek franchise. That's what I want for this one: to eventually live up to its potential.

Posted by: Richard R1

To all you guys that hate Enterprise, I have to wonder... what was it that jaded you so badly? I find the show refreshing and interesting. And, I am old enough to remember when the original Star Trek was on TV in the late '60's. I've seen every ST-related movie that has been made, and quite a few of the related series, although not all. In other words, I have a long history with all things Trek, and I have yet to see a disappointing episode of Enterprise.

I know that not every SCI-FI buff likes every SCI-FI television series (I, for one, never saw anything to like about Farscape), so many of these negative comments can be passed off on that note.

However, for those of you that generally like Star Trek, what is it that has jaded you so badly that makes you think this show stinks?

Posted by: DaveLessnau

quote:
Originally posted by Richard R1
To all you guys that hate Enterprise, I have to wonder... what was it that jaded you so badly?

Take your pick:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...rder=descending

Actually, I shouldn't imply it's just one thing. It's the trend displayed by the threads in that Search: almost every episode has huge, whopping technical, temporal, historical, character, acting and plot problems. In short, it sucks. The only reason most people continue to watch it is in the desperate hope that there will be some form of new Trek to watch that won't make them throw the TiVo doll at the television in disgust.

Posted by: Skittles

I don't hate Enterprise. I just hate the directions they're taking the show. This could be a show with a strong, character driven storyline, and instead they stoop to the lowest common denominator too much (Showing them giving rub-downs in the decon unit, storylines that have been rehashed from previous Treks, etc).

I'm holding out for Season 3 in the event that the show improves.

And am I the only one that just gets tired of hearing "Cap'n" from Trip??

Posted by: Tonybeans

The main things I don't like are:

1. Dull characters. I don't know if it's the acting or the writing, but it's probably more the latter.

2. Plot holes. I've watched and enjoyed enough sci-fi to be pretty good about suspending disbelief - within reason. The season premiere, with that time-and-space-bending communicator that somehow works two-ways and is made out of rusted rebar... no. Hoshi Ewing's "it was all a dream" - cop out.

3. That theme song, which reminds me so much of the "Bank Geeks" episode of Spongebob that it actually makes me laugh now.

"I've got faith... of the heaaaart... " makes me smile just thinking about it. :D

Posted by: lornehosman

I don't dislike ENT - I just think it could be better. I'd give it a C+.

As far as why I have problems with it, it's not good science fiction. Good science fiction must be internally consistant - you cannot "suspend belief" - that's fantasy.

If you're working in an existing mythos, you must stay true to the mythos.

Posted by: Skittles

quote:
Originally posted by lornehosman
you cannot "suspend belief" - that's fantasy.

That reminds me of a quote from one of the Treehouse of Horror episodes from The Simpsons

Prof. Frink: "Uh, yes, bloo-haven...in episode 17, in one shot you are clearly riding a hippogriff, but in the next shot you're riding a horse. Please to be explaining the confusion"

Lucy Lawless: "Well, you see, whenever you see something like that, it's just magic".

Frink: "Yes, but in episode 64.."

Lucy: "Magic."

Frink: "Oh...."

Posted by: Crrink

quote:
Originally posted by SkittlesDFW
And am I the only one that just gets tired of hearing "Cap'n" from Trip??

Hahaha, no, you are most certainly not alone. I've always wondered if that's the actor's normal accent or if it's fake - it's more overdone than Scotty and Checkov's on TOS :D

That being said, if so many of you hate the show, why on earth do you keep watching it?

I think the show is o.k., and unlike every post I've ever read - I thought the Temporal Cold War thing was really cool. I wish they'd spend more time on that....sorry, I know it's an unpopular opinion :)

Posted by: martinp13

quote:
Originally posted by DaveLessnau
It's the trend displayed by the threads in that Search: almost every episode has huge, whopping technical, temporal, historical, character, acting and plot problems.

Yup, that pretty much covers it. :)

Did any of you Enterprise-theme-song-haters like any of the power ballads in the 80s? It really freaks me out to hear SO many people bitch about the song.

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by martinp13
Did any of you Enterprise-theme-song-haters like any of the power ballads in the 80s? It really freaks me out to hear SO many people bitch about the song.

I actually kinda like the song, but I hate it for a Star Trek show.

I'm thinking that's what most people mean when they complain about the song. It's not that they hate the song itself, simply the use of it for the introduction.

Of course, some people will actually hate the song itself.

Posted by: doom1701

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanmc
I actually kinda like the song, but I hate it for a Star Trek show.

I'm thinking that's what most people mean when they complain about the song. It's not that they hate the song itself, simply the use of it for the introduction.

Of course, some people will actually hate the song itself.

I like the song (and was a big power ballads guy), and I don't even mind it on the opening credits--the images fit it, and it flows OK. But I still think it's just wierd for a Star Trek type show to have a song like that.

But at least it's not "Star Trekkin, across the universe...always going forward 'cause we can't find reverse..." :D

Posted by: LoadStar

quote:
Originally posted by Richard R1
To all you guys that hate Enterprise, I have to wonder... what was it that jaded you so badly?

I'm on the more moderate side - when it's OK, I'll give it it's due - but for the most part, Enterprise has been nothing more than a total letdown and something to keep the TV on since I don't watch anything else in the timeslot.

My answer to why is in this post.

If you don't feel like clicking through, I'll give you the shortened version: The characters in this series are for the most part rather unlikable, one-dimensional, static characters. They had certain traits that were developed and portrayed in the first episode, and we have learned very little since, with only a handful of exceptions.

Since I don't care about the characters, I don't really care that much if they get themselves into peril. Since I don't know what motivates them, I can't decide if they're acting consistent with the way they should act or the way I would act if in their position. And since I don't care what happens to the characters, it's a waste of an hour of my time to try to pretend I care enough about what happens in the plot.

Posted by: Mars Rocket

I hate the song, hate it on this show, and hated all the power ballads of the '80s.

As far as the show itself, I'm still watching, but am ready to kill the SP at any point. I could live with all the "huge, whopping technical, temporal, historical, character, acting and plot problems" if only the damned show was interesting. But it's not. The characters are boring, the writing is boring. I can barely remember the character's names at times.

Posted by: Mars Rocket

Oh yeah - the rehashing of old plotlines from earlier Trek shows is annoying too. It makes me feel like I'm wasting my time watching Enterprise, and contributes to the boringness of the show.

Posted by: rbird

I voted for "In the pilot" only because "the very beginning of the pilot where we find out a Klingon is present on Earth" wasn't a choice. :) I keep watching, though, because I like the characters and the concept, and because I hope it will turn itself around at some point. Firing B&B would be a darn good start.

Oh, and even "A Night In Sickbay" is better than Voyager.

Count me as one who likes the theme song, though. Doesn't mean I don't FF through it most of the time, but I like the concept.

Bob

Posted by: Philosofy

For me, it was the anti-bacterial rubdown scene in the pilot.

Posted by: Tonybeans

I laughed out loud during the blue-light rub down scene.

I've wondered more than once if the show isn't simply going for camp now. Simplistic, silly, sci-fi action - it's Baywatch in space.

Posted by: tonyoci

quote:
Originally posted by TiVoLance
Am I the only one that flinches when I see the phrase "Jump the Shark" used?

I agree "Jumping the Shark" has Jumped the Shark

I do not think a show can jump the shark unless it has reached a quality peak, Enterprise has not done that (and may never though I foolishly hold out hope).

T

Posted by: tonyoci

quote:
Originally posted by LoadStar

If you don't feel like clicking through, I'll give you the shortened version: The characters in this series are for the most part rather unlikable, one-dimensional, static characters. They had certain traits that were developed and portrayed in the first episode, and we have learned very little since, with only a handful of exceptions.

Since I don't care about the characters, I don't really care that much if they get themselves into peril. Since I don't know what motivates them, I can't decide if they're acting consistent with the way they should act or the way I would act if in their position. And since I don't care what happens to the characters, it's a waste of an hour of my time to try to pretend I care enough about what happens in the plot.

This PERFECTLY sums up my feelings about the show.

T

Posted by: dccheung

I have Enterprise in my Season Pass but turns out I don't watch them much--so many better choices in the list. I wonder if hashing some plots from Japanese sci-fi animes would spice up the show? Afterall, Evangelion Genesis has some really twisted and dark plots. :p

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by tonyoci

I do not think a show can jump the shark unless it has reached a quality peak, Enterprise has not done that (and may never though I foolishly hold out hope).

I believe that this would qualify as 'Jumping Day 1" or in the pilot...

Posted by: tonyoci

quote:
Originally posted by JYoung
I believe that this would qualify as 'Jumping Day 1" or in the pilot...

My understanding that the original use of "jump the shark" was for quality shows that went bad, not for all shows. Their book is called "when good things go bad" not "when things start bad and stay bad"

All in good fun here, please understand.

T

Posted by: JYoung

Not to nitpick, but Day 1 appears to be a valid category. :)

Posted by: Richard R1

As to my original comment that you Enterprise bashers are "jaded", I have read your answers and still feel that your comments are overly critical -- in other words, you really are jaded.

From dictionary.com, here's some synonyms for jaded:
Worn out, wearied, dulled by surfeit; sated; cynically callous (edited for brevity).

Go back and read your comments, and see if they don't sound like that.

"Cynically callous" is the one that comes the closest to what I am reading. To complain about the theme song, the weak characters, the overused plot stories, the temporal problems, etc. It just seems that you are looking for any reason, valid or not, to put the show down.

Don't get me wrong -- everyone has their right to their opinion. Like I said, I never got into Farscape, and found it to be boring and dull. If I expounded on it, I would probably come across as jaded.

But, for me, I have enjoyed every episode of Enterprise, I like the theme song, I think the characters have been fleshed out much, much more so than those of you who have complained about their boringness, and I rarely ever see a plot hole that bothers me.

I guess I just simply enjoy the story for what it is. In fact, the whole concept, watching what it was like to see the "Early Days" or the prequel of the original Star Trek, fascinates me. I think it is a great idea for a Star Trek series, and it can be enjoyed on it's own merits, if you will put aside all of the preconcieved (jaded, cynical) notions derived from knowing what "their" future will be. Remember, in "their timeline", none of that other stuff has happened yet.

Posted by: DLL66

You all need to get a life if you take any Star Trek seriously!! I'm surprised somebody hasn't answered back in Klingon or something!!:rolleyes: :D

Posted by: keirgrey

P'tak!

Posted by: nineatesix

Ferengi dog! You mean pahtk :p

Posted by: walueg

Enterprise jumped the shark towards the end of ST:TNG, except for DS9 which was really good for its last few seasons. It's the same old stories over and over again. How many stories can you write about meeting aliens in strange cultures? It has become boring. If Enterprise had focused on showing what started the development of the 23rd and 24th centuries, it would be far more interesting. They probably should have spent more time around Earth so we can see the Federation evolve.

They could also have shown some more of the intrigue at the Federation if they wanted to make a different series. I was really excited about Enterprise for the first few episodes. Now it's all been there, done that. I've been considering pulling the season pass for a couple of weeks now because I truly am jaded.

It's a tired formula. Time to move on....

Posted by: Traal

quote:
Originally posted by rbird
Oh, and even "A Night In Sickbay" is better than Voyager.

You're talking about the series after they let Kes go, right? :D That was a bad move. But, they nearly made up for it with a really good series finale.

Really, I don't think you could possibly get much worse than Sickbay. It was completely, utterly pointless and boring. Maybe even worse than Star Trek V. It's one of those story lines you have to pretend never happened and just move on. Assuming there's something worthwhile to move on to, and Enterprise has yet to prove they actually have something better to move on to.

"A Night in Sickbay." Bad, script writer, bad! :mad:

Posted by: jamesbobo

I don't like the theme song, so I just FF through it.
I do not consider myself a Trekie. While I've seen the original series, I didn't watch Next Generation (just didn't care for it) or Deep Space Nine. I did like Voyager and do like Enterprise. Besides, it's just television fantasy entertainment and as such doesn't deserve to be put under a microscope and examined like it was a critical turning point in human history.

Posted by: DLL66

quote:
Originally posted by jamesbobo
I don't like the theme song, so I just FF through it.
I do not consider myself a Trekie. While I've seen the original series, I didn't watch Next Generation (just didn't care for it) or Deep Space Nine. I did like Voyager and do like Enterprise. Besides, it's just television fantasy entertainment and as such doesn't deserve to be put under a microscope and examined like it was a critical turning point in human history.

Very good post jamesbobo!!

Posted by: Bryanmc

To me, the Star Trek series of shows are like Jaguar automobiles.

You started off with a sweet vehicle. It was flashy, cool, very much a quality product.

The next series of cars were similar. Very cool and very popular. Some changes were made to the car and some of those changes were good, some not. In the end though you still had a exciting quality product that people enjoyed.

Then Ford bought Jaguar.

They released the S-Type. It kinda looks like a Jaguar. It's got the Jaguar name, but all you have to do is sit in one to know it's just a Taurus with a fancy grille. The quality is not there. The luxury is not there. They've taken a name that will sell cars and attached it to something that only barely fits under that name.

People that never really were into Jaguars before think it's an okay car. It's cheaper and it appeals to the common man. However, people that knew Jaguars, people that have enjoyed Jaguars for many years know that the latest incarnation is simply a cheap substitute for the quality product they remember.

Posted by: Atomic Buffalo

I have a Season Pass for Enterprise. I've watched two episodes in the past three months. They were as good and as bad as previous series in the franchise, except...

I've seen all this before. Many times. Many, many times.

The cold tempura wok is a brain-tickler, but let's be careful mucking with time, because it's too easy to make a mess of the franchise for a quick thrill.

As a follower of TOS and TNG who lost his way halfway through DS9 and tuned in and out of Voyager, I find that what I want from Enterprise is not another romp through TOS and TNG territory, but a genuine backstory to the Star Trek universe, with people, not cardboard cutouts. (It took me three episodes to differentiate the weapons officer and the engineer -- I literally confused the two from scene to scene.)

They're trying, but the writing makes their struggle seem capricious. The ship works too well too much of the time to be the first time the kids are let outside to play. The crew is too cantankerous and ordinary to have been chosen for such a mission, and then greatness is flipped on like a switch.

And where were all of these new species and people in previous series? Here these kids are close to home, in a prequel. The universe seems a little too crowded and yet devoid of familiarity.

And the Vulcans aren't Vulcan. They're meddlesome and proud and angry all the time. WTF? Sorry, I don't buy it, and it's all but wrecked the show for me.

So, Enterprise lost its way almost immediately, and it's only the likeability of Scott and the curves of Jolene and the hope that there might be an occasional connection with the future that isn't mishandled that allows me to watch the occasional episode.

Such an ambitious project as a prequel in such a thorough science fiction continuum needs amazing writing by a team of Star Trek scholars who fastidiously research a singular epic tale, not just more random derring-do and morality plays. IMHO, they never should have attempted a prequel as a series. An epic movie trilogy would have made more sense.

::

Posted by: dmdeane

quote:
Originally posted by SkittlesDFW
Lucy Lawless: "Well, you see, whenever you see something like that, it's just magic".

Frink: "Yes, but in episode 64.."

Lucy: "Magic."

Frink: "Oh...."

No; "a wizard did it".

Posted by: MMG

All you Enterprise bashers remind me of "Comic Book Store Owner" on the Simpsons. You insist that the new Star Trek show follow "canon" as if the franchise were delivered from on high... Don't be like Comic Book Store owner...

http://www.synergizedsolutions.com/simpsons/images/disclaimer2.gif

Like Bobby Knight said, "you may as well sit back and enjoy it."

http://enquirer.com/editions/2000/09/10/knight.jpg

Posted by: Skittles

quote:
Originally posted by dmdeane
No; "a wizard did it".

potato, potatoe :)

Posted by: DaveLessnau

quote:
Originally posted by MMG
You insist that the new Star Trek show follow "canon" as if the franchise were delivered from on high...]

If the producers/writers are going to call something by a name that comes with 10 or 15 years worth of television background, then it would seem reasonable that people would think that show would follow that background. Otherwise, they should have called it something else. Words mean things. Names are words.

Posted by: MMG

Enterprise is entertaining. Who cares, besides the Comic Book Store Owner and a few geeks that they don't follow canon? The writers are just using dramatic license: deviation from fact, form, or rule by an artist or writer for the sake of the effect gained.

Besides, I don't see "Star Trek" anywhere in the title. Do you?

Plus, if there weren't an Enterprise, we'd all probably be watching the new season of Hunter and complaining that it doesn't follow "Hunter canon."

Posted by: nineatesix

quote:
Originally posted by MMG
Plus, if there weren't an Enterprise, we'd all probably be watching the new season of Hunter and complaining that it doesn't follow "Hunter canon."

There's a new Hunter? I had hoped they would bring back Sledge Hammer! before Hunter. :cool:

Posted by: JYoung

quote:
Originally posted by Richard R1

"Cynically callous" is the one that comes the closest to what I am reading. To complain about the theme song, the weak characters, the overused plot stories, the temporal problems, etc. It just seems that you are looking for any reason, valid or not, to put the show down.

Don't get me wrong -- everyone has their right to their opinion. Like I said, I never got into Farscape, and found it to be boring and dull. If I expounded on it, I would probably come across as jaded.

But, for me, I have enjoyed every episode of Enterprise, I like the theme song, I think the characters have been fleshed out much, much more so than those of you who have complained about their boringness, and I rarely ever see a plot hole that bothers me.

I guess I just simply enjoy the story for what it is. In fact, the whole concept, watching what it was like to see the "Early Days" or the prequel of the original Star Trek, fascinates me. I think it is a great idea for a Star Trek series, and it can be enjoyed on it's own merits, if you will put aside all of the preconcieved (jaded, cynical) notions derived from knowing what "their" future will be. Remember, in "their timeline", none of that other stuff has happened yet.

A number of here have no problem with the concept of Enterprise. We like the idea and we want it to succeed. When it came, we wanted to like it. Really we did. This era could be rich with new and fresh stories but we're getting rehashed pablum from the "future", with characters that are stiff as a board :rolleyes:. Yeah, real new and different.
Quite honestly, the best of Enterprise doesn't match up to the best of TNG and DS9. Point me to an episode that reaches the level of The Measure of a Man, Conspiracy, Q Who, or Duet. Hell, even Voyager's Faces.
Some of Enterprise's episodes are entertaining in the mindless, popcorn sense but there are a lot of shows that do that. If I want to watch scantily clad women run around, I'll watch Baywatch. If I want mindless action, I'll watch the A-Team. It used to be that if I wanted to watch thoughtful, engaging drama with good characters that engaged my mind, I'd watch Star Trek. Not anymore. Hell, last year Andromeda was more thought provoking than Enteprise.
Shows like Buffy, Angel, and Stargate SG-1 blow away Enterprise when it comes to characterization and drama. In 9 to 10 episodes, Firefly has shown 3 to 4 times the characterizaion and drama that Enterprise has in it's 32 episodes. It certainly makes Enterprise look like an also ran.
It's like sitting down to dinner and expecting prime rib or steak and consistently getting a McDonalds Happy Meal and I'm getting sick of Happy Meals.
And yet, I'm still watching and hoping for an episode that will make me sit back and go "Woah" ala The Measure of Man. Damn, I must be a masochist.

quote:
Originally posted by MMG
Enterprise is entertaining. Who cares, besides the Comic Book Store Owner and a few geeks that they don't follow canon? The writers are just using dramatic license: deviation from fact, form, or rule by an artist or writer for the sake of the effect gained.

If they were actually turning out compelling drama, I could excuse a lot of continuity issues but they aren't.

Besides, all three Law & Order series are set in the same Universe (as well as Homicide) and you don't see Criminal Intent violating the continuity of original L&O.
As long as it says "Based of Star Trek, Created by Gene Rodenberry" on the opening credits, I think that it's a reasonable expectation that Enterprise should play by those rules.

quote:
Originally posted by MMG

Besides, I don't see "Star Trek" anywhere in the title. Do you?

I tell myself that every time I watch a new episode... ;)

Posted by: keirgrey

quote:
Originally posted by nineatesix
Ferengi dog! You mean pahtk :p

If you were any other poster, I would kill you where you stand!

Posted by: DaveLessnau

quote:
Originally posted by MMG
Besides, I don't see "Star Trek" anywhere in the title. Do you?

There's more to calling a show something than what they put in the title. If "Enterprise" isn't Star Trek, what's it doing at the top of the following page on the Official Star Trek site at http://www.startrek.com/library/episodes.asp (and note that URL name)? And, how about the statement: "The fifth incarnation of the Star Trek franchise, Enterprise, starts shooting on the Paramount Pictures lot" from http://www.startrek.com/information...e.asp?ID=120012 ? Also, here's a quote from UPN's original press release for the series: "Set early in the 22nd centruy, ENTERPRISE focuses on a history of the galactic upheaval that leads to the formation of The Federation. Its compelling stories of team bravery and individual heorism are sure to answer countless questions for both die-hard fans of the series and neophytes to the "Star Trek" universe." (a copy of the release is here: http://www.trektoday.com/images/new...erprise_big.jpg .

Now, I'll agree with you that Enterprise has been so bad that it couldn't possibly be real Star Trek, but all the evidence points to the fact that the producers/writers intended it to be. As such, they inherited the history when they latched onto the name.

Posted by: jlb

For arguments sake, do we not generally say that ST: TNG did not really get its space legs until Season 3?????

I think Enterprise has had some good episodes and some that put me to sleep, but I am willing to give it a shot, especially since my TiVO is already catching the episodes in the Saturday afternoon time slot when I don't have any conflicts.

Posted by: Bryanmc

quote:
Originally posted by jlb
For arguments sake, do we not generally say that ST: TNG did not really get its space legs until Season 3?????

Well, generally the consensus is that TNG really didn't hit its stride until the third season. However, there were some pretty good episodes scattered through the first two seasons.

So far, we're not seeing that in Enterprise yet. We had more character development by the end of season one of TNG than we do so far of Enterprise. That's not a shot, that's a fact.

I've said it before, all you who say "give it a couple of seasons" had better start thinking of a new explanation for next year.

Posted by: jlb

Oh, I agree. But as long as I don't have a conflict with the Saturday airings, then I'll keep recording. Watching is a different matter.

Posted by: Atomic Buffalo

quote:
All you Enterprise bashers remind me of "Comic Book Store Owner" on the Simpsons. You insist that the new Star Trek show follow "canon" as if the franchise were delivered from on high... Don't be like Comic Book Store owner...

Hello, this is a Star Trek spinoff. Comic Book Guy is the audience.

::

Posted by: Richard R1

quote:
From JYoung: Point me to an episode that reaches the level of The Measure of a Man, Conspiracy, Q Who, or Duet. Hell, even Voyager's Faces.

I would make some series comparisons if I could, but the fact is, I don't watch television with the degree of detail that you must. I can't remember the title of last week's Enterprise episode, because that is unimportant to me. I watch for the enjoyment, or lack thereof, that can be derived from whatever it is I am watching. Then, I move on.

But to continue my defense of Enterprise, let me point out some of the episodes that I particularly enjoyed. Excuse me while I go to epguides.com to recall the episode titles.

Shuttlepod One (02-13-2002)
Everyone complains about lack of character development. Do you not remember this one, where Tucker and Reed are adrift in a Shuttlepod, and facing imminent death from freezing? I learned a lot about each character, such as what their background was on Earth, what their "big" fears in life were, and how they each react under ultimate pressure.

Two Days and Two Nights (05-15-2002)
Interesting scenario where the various Enterprise characters are placed in unexpected situations while taking shore leave on Risa. Once again, there is considerable character development.

Carbon Creek (09-25-2002)
Another episode with an interesting scenario where the show's characters (Vulcan rather than Enterprise) find themselves in an unexpected situation. This episode demonstrates the brand of humor that the writers like to infuse into a lot of their episodes. I find the humor enjoyable, and it has been included frequently in many, many past ST series.

Dead Stop (10-09-2002)
Not much character development, but a very interesting episode, as we the viewers struggle to learn what type of repair station this is. The not-so-subtle hint at the end that this is Borg technology was a good touch.

A Night in Sickbay (10-16-2002)
Ah, the much maligned episode that no one seems to like. I loved it, and thought it had a LOT of character development. Everything I learn about Dr. Phlox is interesting, and this episode was full of it. There is more to learn about Archer, as well. He can be persistent when he wants to be, even if it is only about a dog. The way this persistence was dovetailed with the part of the story about his sexual repression was masterfully written, in my opinion.

I could go on at length about many other episodes, but I picked these as being representative of what I best remember of the series so far. Some would probably say that I am too easily pleased, however, nothing could be further from the truth. It's just that I haven't found anything to dislike about Enterprise.

Posted by: SammyTerry

Bravo Richard, I couldn't have put it any better my self (which is why I never tried)