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Taken - God's Equation - SPOILERS
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Posted by: Skittles

Yet another incredible episode. I'm still sitting here in awe at the ending. The young actress they have playing Allie is simply astounding. Her eyes shine with a rare kind of intelligence you don't see in a child. Whoever cast her in the series deserves serious kudos. The ending was a real twist. I had thought that the episode would end after the hostages disappeared. Matt Frewer's line of "Lady, I love how your mind works" was classic. And Mary shooting her father was just another example of the acorn not falling far from the tree.

I will say that the gore factor in this episode nearly threw me off. The hamster exploding in the microwave and the scene where Charlie is shot and gushing blood just soured my stomach. Way too much blood when a simple cutaway would have sufficed.

The preview for tomorrow's episode looks even more incredible. I suspect the next 3 nights of Taken are going to knock my socks off.

Edit - Didn't Mary Crawford say they had a man inside the Therapy Group? It's obviously not the whack job (though I found the character twist with him not being abducted to be well written). I'm not imagining things, am I?

Posted by: gregpr

I loved the twist at the end, and Mary is every bit the ******* her dad and her grandfathers were.

I'm curious to see how this all plays out....what will Charlie and Lisa do? Is Allie leading Mary down a seemingly primrose path?

One thing though, I was able to watch this ep in about 1:20 by skipping thru the breaks....pretty heavy ad/story ratio if ya ask me :(

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

I really like the switch in pacing that has happened...in the first five hours, I was having great difficulty keeping everybody straight (I had the family tree from the web site up on my computer while watching), but now that it's gone more "real time," I feel like we're really getting to know these characters (with whom, I presume, we will be until the end).

And it looks like there's going to be more action, as well! The first half was good, but the second half is better.

(And I'm sure we'll hear more about the Therapy Mole...after all, they're probably all still together, wherever they are.)

(And I agree, the kid is amazing. It's rare to see a kid who can read lines well period, let alone what are effectively adult lines.)

Posted by: Otto

I got bored. The bits about the hostage thing took way too long. And they need better sharpshooters, I was pissed they didn't cap the guy earlier.

Yeah, I'm bloodthirsty.

And the preview for tommorrow's doesn't give me much hope for the rest of this series. Looks like they're going to fight 'em off. The shots of the alien ships crashing and exploding and so on... well, looks like it's getting worse and worse, IMO. It started out strong, but it's going downhill rapidly. Although I usually love anything with Matt Frewer in it for the sheer cheese factor, but even he can't seem to save this one. :(

I like the kid. She's cool and spooky.

Posted by: nataylor

quote:
Originally posted by SkittlesDFW
Edit - Didn't Mary Crawford say they had a man inside the Therapy Group? It's obviously not the whack job (though I found the character twist with him not being abducted to be well written). I'm not imagining things, am I?

I believe Mary said something about killing the doctor who ran the group because she knew too much. Makes sense that she was the agent, since when Mary got the call that Allie's father had shown up, the doc was the only one in the group who knew about it.

Posted by: ClutchBrake

quote:
Originally posted by nataylor
I believe Mary said something about killing the doctor who ran the group because she knew too much. Makes sense that she was the agent, since when Mary got the call that Allie's father had shown up, the doc was the only one in the group who knew about it.

That is what I thought at first, but the more I think about it the more I don't think it is the doc. It is just way too easy. Besides, even if the doc wasn't the mole she certainly DOES know way to much now.
As for the phone call, we have no idea what was said. We just know that she said the father showed up. For all we know the mole called and told her a guy named Charlie showed up filming for a documentary. She is going to know exactly who it is.

I simultaneously enjoyed and was let down by the last two episodes. I watched the first 5 episodes in one sitting because I couldn't remember the last time a sci-fi series did such a good job of character development. I really enjoyed watching the characters and families evolve over the years. Now it appears that the last 5 episodes are going to focus on the same characters (who, to me, are the most boring generation of the three families). It could still be good, but I will be sorely disappointed if we move from a character driven series to an action driven series.

Posted by: Skittles

I doubt it's the doctor, too. I have a suspicion it's either the Asian lady. It wouldn't make sense if it were the doctor, because they mentioned they put a mole into the existing support group.. so it would be really obvious to the therapy group if the doctor just suddenly changed. I think they want the Doctor killed because she knows too much.

Maybe it's just me, but a 1:20 runtime seems about normal. Since a normal hour-long show runs about 42 minutes when you remove the commercials, it's still fairly close :)

Posted by: jradosh

I saw far too much of that gerbil last night for my taste. We already know the bad guys are bad. They didn't need to show me that! :(

I've noticed that hardly any of the characters are smoking now, which is pretty accurate for the 80s/90s. But where are the drugs?!?!

Half of me wanted the nut-case to shoot the little girl just to end the voice-over narration. :rolleyes:

The 'mole' is probably one of the patients that hasn't really spoken much (IMO)

The hostage scene could have used 'something' to make it more interesting. Would have been better if Tony Soprano was in the group ;)

Did anyone else think it was a little beyond belief that the daughter would have her dad shot in the back right in front of the psycho-center with everyone standing around watching? Her grandad was more sneaky than that.

I have trouble understanding about 1/2 of what Matt Frewer says. He sure swallows his words! And speaking of swallowing... I would have taken another 10 minutes of gerbils exploding rather than seeing him in bed with the sour-puss daughter. :eek:

J

Posted by: Skittles

quote:
Originally posted by jradosh
Did anyone else think it was a little beyond belief that the daughter would have her dad shot in the back right in front of the psycho-center with everyone standing around watching? Her grandad was more sneaky than that.

While the there was definitely no subtlety to her actions, I personally found it believable.

Think of it this way. Owen Crawford (the one from the 40's) went to desperate measures to become the head of the Alien investigations. He killed people to keep them silent, married his way into the upper echelons of the project. He even shot and killed his own wife and former friend in order to keep them silent, and to keep him in his place as head of the project.

Owen's son (whose name escapes me) implicated his father's best friend in his mother's death 25 years later, even though he knew he was pointing the finger at an innocent man. He did this to get control of the project and wrest control of his father's legacy from the best friend (who had become the head of the project).

Then, another 30 years later, Mary shoots her own father in order to prevent his interference in her actions. Granted, this isn't the subtlety shown by her father or grandfather, but my understanding is that Mary is not a formal member of the military so she probably doesn't have the same kind of training in covert operations. The way I understood it, her father brought her in on the project despite the fact that she wasn't a member of the armed forces or the government.

It's very ironic, since it's just one more example of the acorn not falling far from the tree

Posted by: Cletus

I didn't like it. The whole episode had a jumpy-sharky feel, and the miraculous healing scene at the end did it. Maybe it's just me, but as soon as a movie/series has a "instant healing" scene I stop watching.

And, say I extended the suspension of disbelief beyond my usual boundaries, if she really could heal her father, why did she have to let him suffer for hours before she did?

As for what's next, looks to me like Independence Day rehashed. No, thanks.

Posted by: Skittles

quote:
Originally posted by Cletus
...if she really could heal her father, why did she have to let him suffer for hours before she did?

Because she doesn't know she has these powers. She is still having these powers awaken from within her and doesn't understand what she is capable of.

Posted by: Cletus

quote:
Originally posted by SkittlesDFW
Because she doesn't know she has these powers. She is still having these powers awaken from within her and doesn't understand what she is capable of.

Yeah. And 5 minutes later she can teleport everyone out. :rolleyes:

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

It was established earlier in the episode that there is a "higher her," who takes over in times of trouble; later, she doesn't remember what she did. Apparently, during the hostage situation, the "higher her" was biding her time, and emerged at the end.

But hey, if you're leaving, just more room on the sofa for the rest of us! :D

Posted by: Cletus

Umm, no, the sofa's brand new, and it's mine! MINE!!! :D

Posted by: RGM1138

Okay, at this point, I have to wonder which groups' actions could have more sinister implications.

1. The Aliens - What are their final plans? Are they manipulating humanity's evolution for it's own good, to reach a new enlightenment or creating a race of superbeings for some nefarious purpose? And, even though seemingly benevolent, they have no more regard for humans than they would for cattle.

Apparently, the greys are not signatories to the Prime Directive. :)

2. The Gubment - Here represented by the ghoulishly gleeful Max Headroom, who, when not busy tagging the boss's daughter, is nonchalantly blowing up hamsters in the microwave. And, Blair Witch, (the evil spawn of Eric Crawford), who thinks nothing of having her own father assassinated, while planning to dissect little Allie(n).

Wouldn't these two make great party guests?

I can't wait to see how this plays out.

Couple of side notes: Ray, the hostage taker, so afraid of being "Taken"
by aliens, played one, (sort of), in an ep of Stargate SG-1. [Lotan in "Scorched Earth").

John, (Eric Close), the first alien and original impregnator, played an alien hunter in the series "Dark Skies."

Bob

Posted by: jradosh

BTW, I just remembered that we haven't seen the other aliens!

As I recall, there are two types of aliens... the tall skinny ones and the short, squat ones. Interesting that they're saving the short ones for the last few episodes. I wonder why :confused:

Posted by: Skittles

I don't know how you classify the "short" ones, but the ones we've seen so far are only about 4 feet tall, given the shots in the first few episodes where one of them was standing next to another person.

Posted by: gregpr

quote:
Originally posted by Cletus
Yeah. And 5 minutes later she can teleport everyone out. :rolleyes:

How do you know it was her? Maybe it was the Protectors?

Posted by: Cletus

quote:
Originally posted by gregpr
How do you know it was her? Maybe it was the Protectors?

Every time the Protectors (sic) did something, there was a saucer present. Not this time.

Posted by: bidger

Well, I'm glad to see some other people viewing the series are starting to see the wheels spinning. I've come to the conclusion as to why it's starting to wear on me: Charlie & (especially) Lisa! And the major share of last nights episode was taken up by the drum solo of movie scenes, Hostage standoff. I have to admit, I am TAKEN w/ the little girl. ;)

Posted by: patrickpiteo

quote:
Originally posted by SkittlesDFW
I doubt it's the doctor, too. I have a suspicion it's either the Asian lady. It wouldn't't make sense if it were the doctor, because they mentioned they put a mole into the existing support group.. so it would be really obvious to the therapy group if the doctor just suddenly changed. I think they want the Doctor killed because she knows too much.

Maybe it's just me, but a 1:20 runtime seems about normal. Since a normal hour-long show runs about 42 minutes when you remove the commercials, it's still fairly close :)

It seems to me to be the doctor. I mean she was really the only one who new who the father was. Also the fact that Miss Sour Puss wanted her shot to keep her quite...

Posted by: jradosh

quote:
Originally posted by patrickpiteo
It seems to me to be the doctor. I mean she was really the only one who new who the father was. Also the fact that Miss Sour Puss wanted her shot to keep her quite...

She knew about the father because she did the hypnosis! As someone already mentioned, the govt. people said they had a mole in an existing group. That makes it doubtful that it's the doc.

J

Posted by: ClutchBrake

quote:
Originally posted by jradosh
She knew about the father because she did the hypnosis!

I could be wrong, but I believe the timeline is wrong for your assumption (though I agree that I do not think it was the Dr.). When Mary Crawford received the call from the mole had the doctor already regressed both Charlie and Lisa to find out he was the father?
Again, I do NOT think the doctor is the mole. They just want to shut her up because of what she learned from the regression.
I hope it is the Dr. because that would surprise me. As it is, my vote goes to the whiny asian woman or the black guy.

Posted by: Skittles

Whiny Asian Woman makes sense, only because of her attitude during the entire hostage situation and the fact that she didn't seem afraid at all.

Another part of this riddle I don't understand is how the UFO Team managed to be the only ones involved in the hostage situation. If the Doctor called the FBI, why wouldn't the FBI have shown up? We know she actually did call the FBI, because the local police showed up and mentioned that they were just a stopgap measure until the FBI got there.

It really wouldn't surprise me if the man who had taken the hostages was the mole. He was my primary suspect up until the hostage situation. Of course, I think that's the point. Spielberg just wanted him as a red herring. What's interesting is that Allie hasn't noticed that there's a mole in her midst, but she foresaw the danger the moment the UFO agents showed up at soccer practice.

Posted by: jradosh

quote:
Originally posted by ClutchBrake
I could be wrong, but I believe the timeline is wrong for your assumption (though I agree that I do not think it was the Dr.).

Well, now you have me rethinking my position... but I already deleted the ep so I can't go double-check.

BTW, wouldn't Ally the wunderkind have been able to pick out the mole if she wanted to? :confused:

J

Posted by: betativoII

quote:
Originally posted by RGM1138
Couple of side notes: Ray, the hostage taker, so afraid of being "Taken"
by aliens, played one, (sort of), in an ep of Stargate SG-1. [Lotan in "Scorched Earth").

John, (Eric Close), the first alien and original impregnator, played an alien hunter in the series "Dark Skies."

Bob

A couple more:

Ryan Merriman (played the Crawford boy who was in the cabin w/ the hybrid twin when it burned down) played "Young Jarrod" in "the Pretender." And Emily Bergl (adult Lisa) is on "Gilmore Girls" on occasion. She plays one of Paris' sidekicks, Francie. The dark-haired one, I believe. That one had me stumped for a bit... :)

Posted by: patrickpiteo

quote:
Originally posted by jradosh
Well, now you have me rethinking my position... but I already deleted the ep so I can't go double-check.

BTW, wouldn't Ally the wunderkind have been able to pick out the mole if she wanted to? :confused:

J

I guess she knew, but at that point the it dosen't matter. As she said nothing could stop what was going to happen..

Posted by: patrickpiteo

quote:
Originally posted by SkittlesDFW
Whiny Asian Woman makes sense, only because of her attitude during the entire hostage situation and the fact that she didn't seem afraid at all.

Another part of this riddle I don't understand is how the UFO Team managed to be the only ones involved in the hostage situation. If the Doctor called the FBI, why wouldn't the FBI have shown up? We know she actually did call the FBI, because the local police showed up and mentioned that they were just a stopgap measure until the FBI got there.

It really wouldn't surprise me if the man who had taken the hostages was the mole. He was my primary suspect up until the hostage situation. Of course, I think that's the point. Spielberg just wanted him as a red herring. What's interesting is that Allie hasn't noticed that there's a mole in her midst, but she foresaw the danger the moment the UFO agents showed up at soccer practice.

It was the university security that came. Then the MIB came. The doc was on the phone with Miss Sour Puss.

Posted by: ClutchBrake

quote:
Originally posted by jradosh
BTW, wouldn't Ally the wunderkind have been able to pick out the mole if she wanted to? :confused:

J

Absolutely. The question remains if she would want to.

1.) Would she have known to look for a mole?
2.) Would she willingly expose the person and put him/her in danger with both the spooks and hostages.

She might have been trying to save the mole. After all, she already knew she was going to leave with the spooks.
The more I think about it though, the less I think she knew about the mole or even to look for a mole. Provided she was the one who "teleported"(?) the good guys away it seems like she would have left the mole with the spooks and not with the good guys.

Posted by: Skittles

quote:
Originally posted by patrickpiteo
It was the university security that came. Then the MIB came. The doc was on the phone with Miss Sour Puss.

Right, but where is the link between the FBI and the MIB?

Posted by: Fleegle

quote:
Originally posted by SkittlesDFW
Right, but where is the link between the FBI and the MIB?

Folks, these are NOT MIB. You've been brainwashed by Will Smith movies!:D

If you read up on real reports of the Men In Black, they seem more alien, andmost reports say they have no visible hair, including Eyelashes and Eyebrows.

(Ok, In high school, I did a research paper of Alien Abductions. I learned A WHOLE lot. In fact, one of teh first episodes of Taken mentioned "your twelve friends". I'm willing to bet that That meant Gen. Vandenburg and Majestic 12.)

Posted by: patrickpiteo

quote:
Originally posted by fleegle
Folks, these are NOT MIB. You've been brainwashed by Will Smith movies!:D

If you read up on real reports of the Men In Black, they seem more alien, andmost reports say they have no visible hair, including Eyelashes and Eyebrows.

(Ok, In high school, I did a research paper of Alien Abductions. I learned A WHOLE lot. In fact, one of teh first episodes of Taken mentioned "your twelve friends". I'm willing to bet that That meant Gen. Vandenburg and Majestic 12.)

MIB was just a term. Really they wore just part of some secret. government agency.

Posted by: patrickpiteo

quote:
Originally posted by SkittlesDFW
Right, but where is the link between the FBI and the MIB?

I do not think there ever was one.

Posted by: Rob Helmerichs

There had to have been SOME link; the doctor called the FBI, and the MIB showed up.

Posted by: jamesbobo

I thought this episode was just silly. A hostage situation with a child involved? Wouldn't the place be swarming with the news media? Wouldn't that make the plan of murdering people in front of everybody a major blunder? And why would someone take orders from the fathers daughter then the father is in charge, especially when that order is to kill the leader of the group? With only three episodes left, I'll stick with it but I may be sorry.

Posted by: patrickpiteo

quote:
Originally posted by jamesbobo
I thought this episode was just silly. A hostage situation with a child involved? Wouldn't the place be swarming with the news media? Wouldn't that make the plan of murdering people in front of everybody a major blunder? And why would someone take orders from the fathers daughter then the father is in charge, especially when that order is to kill the leader of the group? With only three episodes left, I'll stick with it but I may be sorry.

That's why they call it Sc-Fi........

Posted by: patrickpiteo

quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
There had to have been SOME link; the doctor called the FBI, and the MIB showed up.

Maybe she did not call the FBI and was on the phone with Miss Sour Puss. Did you see the girl look at the doctor when she was talking to them..

Posted by: nataylor

Well tonight's epsiode settled the mole debate. Not much of a mole really. More of an informant.

Posted by: ClutchBrake

D'OH!!! I bow before thee and ask for forgiveness. :D

Posted by: jradosh

quote:
Originally posted by nataylor
Well tonight's epsiode settled the mole debate. Not much of a mole really. More of an informant.

Hey, keep the spoilers in the right thread please! I haven't seen "Dropping Dishes" yet!!! :eek:

(ok, it wasn't much of a spoiler you gave... but puleeze be careful. I've invested 14 hours into this thing and would hate to have it ruined by a misplaced spoiler)

J

Posted by: Skittles

Same here! I had to watch TAR3 last night and ended up TiVo'ing Dropping Dishes for viewing later tonight :)