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How big is Tivo software version 3.1? 9 GIGS?
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Posted by: buyerchoice

Someone told me that 3.1 for a DirecTivo takes up 9 gigs and only leaves 31 GB free on a 40 gig drive. Can anyone verify or disprove this? Thanks. I would like to know how much space is available for recording on the A drive and whether the B drive can hold more recordings than the same size A drive, and how much more. Thanks.

Posted by: mattdrury

The software can't be that size based on the time it took to download 3.1. Could that special someone be confusing the storage space set aside for promotions with the software itself?

Posted by: DaveLessnau

I have no facts to back this up, but I think the upgrades that we download don't include things like the menu screens and the animations (which don't change from version to version): they just include the code. So, the actual image on the disk could be huge with only a relatively small amount of it being "software." Of course, I was under the impression that the total size was more on the order of a gigabyte or two. Nine GB sounds awfully big to me.

Posted by: mattdrury

No doubt someone with a dump of the partitions can chime in with more specific file sizes. Haven't gotten there yet myself as the warranty is still in place. :)

Posted by: Robert S

The system partitions are 2x128Mb root partitions, a 128Mb /var partition and a 64Mb swap partition (plus 4x2Mb boot and kernel partitions). These don't change when the software upgrades.

I'd be surprised if the allocation for special programming increased as this might force the deletion of recordings.

Did anyone notice a capacity change when 3.1 came in?

Posted by: stormsweeper

The reserved space also includes the buffer, which I think is two buffers on a combo unit. The whole shaebang shouldn't quite be 9GB, however.

The B drive can hold more recordings if it's equal to or greater than the A drive. I'm not sure of the approximate GB/hour ratio for combos, but I know it's more than 1 hour/GB.

Posted by: feldon23

The fact that an entire backup of the TiVo operating system AND menu animations takes less than 600 MB should assuage your fears.

Posted by: stormsweeper

quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
The fact that an entire backup of the TiVo operating system AND menu animations takes less than 600 MB should assuage your fears.

His fears are that he isn't getting what he paid for it seems. 30some GB gives you 40some hours of recording space, it's not a 1:1 ratio, although the drives are close. For example, my 87 hour SVR-3000 has an 82Gb drive.

The backup doesn't store the alternate root partition, and zips up what it does backup. partitions 1-9 take up about 1GB of space, partitions 10 and 12 (just 10 on older Philips models) take up another 512MB for the database, and there's a couple more GB used for the animations, buffer(s), Showcase/TCP material, and other stuff.

Posted by: buyerchoice

quote:
Originally posted by mattdrury
The software can't be that size based on the time it took to download 3.1. Could that special someone be confusing the storage space set aside for promotions with the software itself?

MattDrurry,

You could be correct. A quick calculation would be 9 GIGS with a 56k modem (5.2k/s would take 30 hours - A 33.6 modem would take about 45 hours.

I am not sure about the promotions issue but I do think that perhaps the entire new version does not need to be downloaded, maybe just the small changes. Not sure about this, just maybe.

Posted by: Robert S

30 hours for 9Gb sounds a bit optimistic for a 56K modem! I reckon 500 hours is nearer the mark.

Posted by: ADent

Don't forget the 'reserved space' that TiVo holds for its own uses - TiVo clips, VOD?, etc.

Posted by: buyerchoice

"The fact that an entire backup of the TiVo operating system AND menu animations takes less than 600 MB should assuage your fears."

Feldon23, I am new to the backup concept but I thought I had read that it can sometimes be as big as 1.5 GIGS. I think Hinsdale says that. But now that I think about it, I am not sure if that was compressed or uncompressed. My guess would be compressed. If memory serves, maximum compression is 9 to 1 for data. I could be wrong. Therefore 9 GIGS SOUNDS possible but I am still not sure.

quote:
Originally posted by stormsweeper
His fears are that he isn't getting what he paid for it seems.

Well, not so much a fear. Just this, I am the kind of person who likes to put tech to its maximum use. Therefore, I came up with the following concept. Mind you, some people may think this is overkill, but not me.

Having just purchased a HDVR2, I have been playing around a bit. The concept is to record two shows in EVERY time slot, 24 hours per day, seven days per week, thus allowing for a choice of 48 hours worth of shows each day. To me, that means making Tivo do all it can do in giving the maximum possible selection. Assuming there are enough good shows to allow selecting two shows in each time slot. (Not sure about that yet, that answer is probably years away from my grasp) The question is, how much recording capacity is needed? To begin to answer that I did an experiment.

For the time being, I think that Tivo the company, did a good job when they selected 48 hours as the default program save time. In the future, I may decide that more or less time would have been a better choice. But for now, my goal is to save each program for two days. So here what I did. Last night I began with a fresh tivo. No programs recorded and none scheduled. Then I selected programs that keep the two tuners active continuously. When I got to the point where I had scheduled 22.5 hours of programing, on the very next half hour show, Tivo reported to me that the show I wanted to record would only be saved for 11 hours. If that program fell precisely at bed time then the next day it would not be there for me to view. Thats no good. So, it is very clear that 40 GIGS is not enough.

The next question: Is one 120 GB drive enough? Well, if in fact the 40 gig drive has 39 gigs of recording space, then it would be safe to say that the 22.5 hours mentioned above would become 68.65 hours with a 120 GB drive, not the 105 hours that the Tivo screen says. (22.5 hours divided by 39 GIGS times 119 GIGS = 68.65 hours)- I should mention that in the paragraph above, the program that would be saved for 11 hours, would leave room for 10.5 hours more programing, but if that were done, the HDVR2 would max out at 22.5 + 11 = 33.5 hours. So you to get what you pay for, however after scheduling the very last program that would use up the entire capacity the Tivo would warn that the recording about to be entered would only be saved for 1/2 hour. So yes, there is up to 35 hours possible with a 40 GIG drive, however, that is not possible unless the two day default save time gets reduced and that limits the usefulness by deleting programs before getting a chance to view them.

So, if I begin recording two shows in EVERY time slot 24 hours per day, seven days per week, the first program recorded will be saved for 48 hours, during that time, 95 hours of other programing will be recorded. This seems to dictate a minimum recording capacity of 96 hours. However, one 120 GB drive only yields 68.65 hours of useful time at the 48 hour default save time. So for EVERY program to be saved for 48 hours would require 166 GIGS (39 GIGS = 22.5 hours of useful recording time therefore 96 hours of useful recording time = 166 GIGS)

Now that I have taken the time to make this post, my calculations seem to indicate that to get the minimum needed 96 hour record time, even if the 40 GIG drive only had 31 GIGS of record space, then one 120 GB drive would only yield 80 hours of useful record time with the 48 hour default save time.

Looks like no matter how I slice it, I need at least 166 GIGS. But maybe I could go with one 120 GB drive and just take a little reduction on the 48 hour save time? But it seems to me that based on what I have written above the last program recorded at the 95 1/2 hour mark would only get saved for 8.5 hours. Again, NOT very useful if that program was recorded at bed time. Then again, ALL of the above does not take into account programs that we delete after we watch them. That should change the equation, I think. But then, what about those days when we do not watch much and delete much. HMMMMMMMMM

Maybe I just made my final decision to go with two 120 GB drives even though I hate to spend that much.

ANY COMMENTS? Tech or my logic or just calling me plain crazy for wanting to record 24/7

Posted by: feldon23

I have not heard of standalone TiVos that store less than the advertised capacity.

Posted by: stormsweeper

A single 120 should give you @ 140 hours or recording space. 2 should give you @ 300. Someone who actually owns a HDVR2 in these configs or works with them (weaknees for example) should be able to give more accurate figures.

I think you're doing too much math here. Too much flawed math, that is. Among other things, the -1 through -9 flags for compression are not linear, and not all data compresses equally. Text files compress exceptionally well, but binary files (the kernel, the tivo application itself, misc utilities on the drive, the animations, etc.) don't compress well at all. The backups that large are usually from new systems that have "demo" recordings (my SVR-2000 had a couple TiVo commercials, for example) that get caught by the normal parameters of a backup.

Posted by: stormsweeper

Also, the 48 hour default save time does not mean the program is deleted then. They "expire" then; expired recordings are deleted in the order they were recorded as the TiVo needs space for new recordings. If you have suggestions turned on, any suggestions recorded will be deleted before any normal recordings, expired or otherwise.

Posted by: buyerchoice

quote:
Originally posted by stormsweeper
A single 120 should give you @ 140 hours or recording space. 2 should give you @ 300.

Many sources on this board report "up to 105 hours" with one 120 GB drive and "up to 217 hours" with two. The figures you quoted were for stand alone Tivo's

quote:
I think you're doing too much math here.

But I love the power of math.

[/QUOTE]Among other things, the -1 through -9 flags for compression are not linear, and not all data compresses equally. Text files compress exceptionally well, but binary files (the kernel, the tivo application itself, misc utilities on the drive, the animations, etc.) don't compress well at all. The backups that large are usually from new systems that have "demo" recordings (my SVR-2000 had a couple TiVo commercials, for example) that get caught by the normal parameters of a backup.[/QUOTE]

In fairness, the 22.5 hours I reported was based on tivo's estimate, not on actual recorded programs, at least not at the time of the estimate. Therefore the actual compression and time can deviate from the estimate. As more people chime in it seems pretty clear that the 40 GB drive may have 39 GB free for recording programs, not 31 GB. 1 GB operating system and other space.

Posted by: stormsweeper

Do you use the "Save Until I Delete" option for any of your season passes?