TiVo Community Forums Archives - Custom Cable for HDVR2 Upgrades

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Custom Cable for HDVR2 Upgrades
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Posted by: BadlandZ

I was talking to John Diep from Computer Cable Makers Inc., and he said they might be interested in making a custom cable for use in HDVR2 upgrades, if there is enough interest. I was going to have them make about 50, and try to sell off the ones I don’t need myself, or maybe they will just sell them direct if enough people are interested, and I can order just 2?

The original HDVR2 cable is 3” long, flat, UDMA.

I’m thinking the ideal cable would be 3" to from blue (motherboard) to grey (slave) as a flat cable, and 8" from grey (slave) to black (master) as a rounded cable (for better airflow).

I’m pretty sure that the 3” flat part would work (same as original). And I have a rounded cable that is 6” from the slave to master in my HDVR2 now, but it’s stretched very tight. I think 8” would be better, so it’s not stretched, and any longer would just be more length to restrict airflow.

The montherboard connector would have to be custom also, and have all 40 holes (not the normal UDMA cable with the one pin blanked out).

So, anyone think this is not a good idea for any reason?

Anyone else out there that would be willing to buy these cables if they make them? (I’d like to get enough people interested so I can order a few at once, so they are more willing to make it). I’d guess Michael from Weakness and the 9thTee people would probably be interested in getting some to stock also?

Posted by: gsr

quote:
Originally posted by BadlandZ
Anyone else out there that would be willing to buy these cables if they make them? (I’d like to get enough people interested so I can order a few at once, so they are more willing to make it). I’d guess Michael from Weakness and the 9thTee people would probably be interested in getting some to stock also?

I'd be willing to buy 2 of them if they were available.

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by gsr
I'd be willing to buy 2 of them if they were available.

Cool, the cable needed is fairly rare... Usually, there is double the distance from the motherboard to the first drive is double the first to second drive. In this case we need the opposite.

If they actually made the cable I'm suggesting, a 3" to from blue (motherboard) to grey (slave) as a flat cable, and 8" from grey (slave) to black (master) as a rounded cable (for better airflow), it would be the ideal cable.

Flat plus rounded would be a “hi-breed” that I’ve never seen before. It would be soo cool get a cable that was exactly what we need! Add to that, someone who would actually sell a cable with all 40 holes in the motherboard end, so we don’t have to drill/melt the hole out, that would totally rock.

Anyone know the potential market? Like, how many HDVR2’s are projected to sell? What percentage of buyers actually upgrade their TiVo’s? (I’m guessing this is a very small number, but I’d like to let them get some kind of idea of the potential market).

He said he would try to quote me some sort of price tomorrow (Christmas Eve), but he's only working a half day (can't blame him for that, I'm not working tomorrow at all!).

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by Jello2594
Is it a big complicated thing to just add a drive?

I just wrote my version of a How-To for two drive upgrades to a HDVR2 if it helps? It's not as hard as it looks in my instructions, I just detailed as much as I could think of.

When adding one drive, you need to back up the original first (for safety), and then bless the second drive. I just personally feel safer keeping the original drive untouched and in a box for safe keeping.

Check out This Discussion for more info.

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by Jello2594
Can't I just buy a 120 gig Samsung drive, "bless it" with this software, and install it on top of the 40 gig drive that came with the DirecTivo (without taking that drive out)?

I've ordered the 2nd drive bracket, the power y-cable, the ATA66 cable, and the Torx screwdriver set from 9th Tee... It seems like it would be super-easy.. I dont want to go to somebody house who has a PC...

I'm not sure about the first part, but I think so. Hopefully, someone can confirm it, but you would be without a backup if you did it!

As for the second part, you got almost all the right parts. But I've heard the IDE cable from 9th Tee isn't long enough. That's why I'm trying to get someone to make a custom one for us.

Posted by: Imageek2

Once you put a second drive in the Tivo the two become "married". If you remove the second drive the Tivo won't boot, and you will have to restore the software either from a backup you made when you did the upgrade (easy), or a backup from a kindly stranger (much harder). I made a backup when I upgraded my original drive to a 120GB and it only took a couple of minutes as I remember. It's worth it.

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by Jello2594
Whats the maximum storage for my HDVR2? Should I get two 120gigs? Since I have to take out my original drive, I may as well box it up and store it.

Without kernel hacking and radical hardware changes, you can only put 2 drives in, and it will only see up to 137G on each drive.

You can get 160G drives if you have money to burn, but it will only see the first 137G, so it's sort of wasting money.

That's why most people go with 2ea 120G drives. 120G is still significantly cheaper than 160G, espically when you compare the cost per G and consider that 160G will only be 137G in your TiVo.

Storing the orignial drive is wise for a backup, it's probably a very slow 40G Maxtor. Even if you did re-use it on something, you could probably get a bigger, faster, better drive for about $50 on sale (after rebates).

Posted by: jlib

quote:
Originally posted by BadlandZ
...you could probably get a bigger, faster, better drive...

Bigger is better. Faster (hotter, noisier) is not better.

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by jlib
Bigger is better. Faster (hotter, noisier) is not better.

You pulled that a bit out of context. In a TiVo, faster isn't better, true. However, I was talking about using the old 40G drive from the TiVo in a PC. In that case, you CAN get a bigger, faster, better drive for the PC.

Posted by: weaknees

We are working on a new custom bracket that will ship with a custom cable and a power splitter, and possibly other parts.

In the meantime, we'd consider the possibility of pooling an order - email us at tivo@weaknees.com.

Thanks,

Michael

Posted by: jlib

Those custom cables will need to be cheaper than $12.50 each.

http://www.ultracable.com/atas_customcable.html

Posted by: FUBAR

i got one with 4 holes on the mother board side from best buy. It's very similar to the cable that comes with most retail box hard drives.

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by jlib
Those custom cables will need to be cheaper than $12.50 each.

While I can't guarantee a $12.50 or less price, John did promise a response by 12/30/02.

I would think that for a cable that was exactly ideal, (half flat, half rounded, perfect lengths, 40 hole motherboard connector) I would be willing to pay for it.

The cable jlib quotes would work very well, if you drill out the connector, and want some extra length floating around in there restricting air flow. I don't think either of these issues would be a big problem, and the HDVR2 would probably work with it in most cases. But I put my system in a small poorly ventilated standard IKEA TV stand, and I really want good airflow. Plus some small insurance about the connectors (not drilling them out myself or melting them out) would be worth at least a couple bucks of "insurance" to me, just to know it was done right (I plan on using it a few years, $2-5/3-year investment is nothing).

So, I'm going to wait and see... if it's $30, they can kiss off.... If it's $15-$18, I'll probably buy. I'm hoping it will be about $7.

Posted by: jlib

Oh, yeah, you're right. Having the extension be rounded is good idea. Forgot about that. That cable is also 18" total. The only thing custom is the spacing. So a true custom cable would be worth a little more especially if you have to flip the cable to connect second drive.

Posted by: Polcamilla

quote:
Originally posted by Jello2594
If you're a fan of the show "Wild On", you'll love the European, uncensored versions!

Uhh.....is it anything like "Italian Stripping Housewives"?

Anyway, check your private messages. :)

Posted by: DCIFRTHS

Will this cable work in a 60 Hour Series 2 standalone (not a direct TV unit)?

Thanks

Posted by: BadlandZ

Well, bad news. John from cablemakers.com said they can't find a supplier to make the cable. Apparently they are not really "cable makers" and only have limited suppliers!

Anyway, his reason was that no one currently makes cables that are part rounded, and part flat. However, I think the first rounded cables were flat cables that were slit between the wires several times, and then wrapped. I would believe this would work for this purpose.

Also, I think a full 8 inches, or maybe even 9 inches would be best for the length between the two drives. And the orientation of the connectors between the motherboard and the first (slave) drive is as significant as getting a 40 hole/pin connector on the motherboard end. Because, if the connectors are not lined up, it would be required to "flip" the flat ribbon between the two (although highly unlikely, because pin1 is pin1 on both ends, but still, an important note).

So, does anyone have any idea who would be willing to actually manufacture a specialized cable without charging an arm and a leg for it?

Posted by: BadlandZ

Well, since my idea to get a custom cable bit the dust, has anyone found a good source of cables that are the proper length to use with the 9th Tee bracket yet?

Posted by: TimTrace

Dear Mr. Landz: :)

I have a two-week old Hughes HDVR2.

I have my 9th Tee bracket, and my two white-box Maxtor 160GB drives sitting close at hand. I'm about to perform my upgrade, then I find this thread ;->

Since I haven't cracked the case on my HDVR2 yet, can you tell me precisely what will prevent me from using a UDMA drive cable (as packaged with a motherboard, a retail drive or an ATA-133 controller card) with my 9th Tee bracket?

If I surmise correctly:

1> Distance from controller connector to the slave HDD (typically the gray connector) is far too long; the extra length impedes airflow inside the case. Is there nowhere inside the case to jam the cable? Can you fold it over, and stick it up against the side wall of the chassis with double-stick tape between the folds?

2> Distance from the slave connector to the master HDD (typically the black connector) is too short.

3> Most motherboard/drive/controller cables have blocked pins on the connector to ease assembly in computer systems. The blocks must be removed to be used in a TiVo.

Best regards,

Tim ==

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by TimTrace
Dear Mr. Landz: :)
---snip---
1> Distance from controller connector to the slave HDD (typically the gray connector) is far too long;
---snip---
2> Distance from the slave connector to the master HDD (typically the black connector) is too short.
---snip---
3> The blocks must be removed to be used in a TiVo.

Best regards,

Tim ==

Yea, that's pretty much it.

1> isn't that big of a deal. I personally just don't like all that extra cable in there.

2> can be a big deal. Most cables give you about 6" between the two drives, this is just not enough! You need about 7" or so, 9" or more would be ideal on a flat cable.

3> Yes, when UDMA started, they started using 80 wire cables with 39 pins. I don't quite know why, I've never understood the 80 wires for only 39 pin part... But I do know that the old IDE cables use to have 40 pin holes, and on newer UDMA-IDE cables, they blocked one of the center pins off (I guess to prevent you from putting it on upside-down? But, I thought that is what the block off to the side was for already!)

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by jlib
Those custom cables will need to be cheaper than $12.50 each.

http://www.ultracable.com/atas_customcable.html

I just ordered 2 of these, spaced 12" from A to B (They say A to B, where it is Grey to Black, or Master to Slave). 12 inches should be plenty long enough to get between the two drives.

And that should also be plenty long enough from motherboard to the slave (Blue to Grey) at 6 inches.

We'll see how long it takes to get them, if/when they come in, I'll post how well they work, and if they have 40 pin connectors or just 39 pin connectors. The diagrams show 40 pin connectors...

Posted by: TimTrace

The how-for, why-for about 80 wires for 39 pins, taken from this page at Gemini Info:

"In 1997-98, Intel and Quantum created another Ultra DMA standard called ATA/66 or UDMA/66 (UDMA mode 4). This protocol has a theoretical transfer speed of 66 MB/sec. It also needs a new IDE ribbon cable with 80 wires instead of the original 40. The 40 additional wires are used for grounding. In the older 40-pin-40-wire IDE ribbon cables, only seven wires were used for grounding. The additional grounding removes the noise in the cable after a data transmission (crosstalk). In the UDMA/33 protocol, the controller had to wait for the noise in the cable to disappear before the next transmission.

"With the new 40-pin-80-wire UDMA cables, the noise is reduced so greatly that there is little delay in data transmission. This 40-pin-80-wire UDMA cable usually has one-hole masked-off, because actually only 39-holes are needed. Note that UDMA cable is still a type of IDE cable, i.e. they can be interchanged, but UDMA cable will give faster speed. "

The article goes on to discuss ATA/100, ATA/133 and SATA.

Best regards,

Tim ==

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by BadlandZ
I just ordered 2 of these (from http://www.ultracable.com/atas_customcable.html ), spaced 12" from A to B (They say A to B, where it is Grey to Black, or Master to Slave). 12 inches should be plenty long enough to get between the two drives.

And that should also be plenty long enough from motherboard to the slave (Blue to Grey) at 6 inches.

We'll see how long it takes to get them, if/when they come in, I'll post how well they work, and if they have 40 pin connectors or just 39 pin connectors. The diagrams show 40 pin connectors...

I got the cables from http://www.ultracable.com/atas_customcable.html today. They are spaced as I asked, and all of the connecters have all 40 holes. I happen to pick up my replacement HDVR2 today on my way home from work, and so it was perfect timing for the upgrade.

I have to say, this cable is about the best I can hope for a cable to be. Any shorter in the short end, and it would have been tough to handle when imaging the drives. Any longer on the long end, and it would just be blocking more airflow.

I'd love if it was rounded on the long end, but, I think this is about the best I am going to get. No need to stretch it. No need to drill out a hole in it. Just pull it out of the plastic bag, and pop it on the drives.

Posted by: DCIFRTHS

Cool. Thanks for the update. Let us know how the upgrade goes....

Posted by: BadlandZ

quote:
Originally posted by DCIFRTHS
Cool. Thanks for the update. Let us know how the upgrade goes....

Oh... It's done already :cool:
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VV

Posted by: TigerDave

Check this eBay auction out, guys:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...2062020138&rd=1

For $3.00 + $5 flat s/h, you can get 2 80-wire IDE cables 18" long and with NO BLOCKED PINS! Based on what I've read (as I have yet to crack open my HDVR2), I can just reverse the cable.

I can connect the black connector at one end onto the motherboard, the middle conector (6" from the black one) goes to the A drive, and the blue connector at the other end (12" from the middle connector) goes onto the B drive. As long as the drives as jumpered MASTER and SLAVE (and NOT "Cable Select"), it will work fine as it doesn't matter which way the cable gets installed.

Posted by: weaknees

After testing about 10 different cables from various manufacturers, we have finally found one that we like, and we're hoping to have it manufactured and up on the site within a few weeks.

The ATA/133 custom cable will have the right connector spacings (so that it will not have to be reversed). It will not be a flat cable. Instead, it will be extremely flexible and will not require the odd bends and turns of a flat cable. In addition, it will be cut much like the old Series 1 Standalone cables, which will allow better air flow and flexibility. Think of it as a round ATA/133 cable but without the plastic case. 80 wires, 40 pins...no blocked pins.

We'll have this--along with a couple of other HDVR2/Series2 upgrade parts that we designed and engineered--available in a few weeks (we hope).

Unfortunately, the cable manufacturer doesn't have a store-front, so we can't provide a link. However, if you can hold out for a few weeks, we hope to have something up on the site within that time.

Michael