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Alias "Phase One" 1/26/03: SPOILERS!!
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Posted by: Volk
First 5 minutes... I love tivo.
Posted by: TIVO_GUY_HERE
Oh MY GOD
Posted by: Lori
Oh, my God, Oh, my God, Oh, my God, Oh, my God, Oh, my God, Oh, my God, Oh, my God, Oh, my God, Oh, my God.
Oh.
My.
God.
Posted by: Element
That was one....er....action packed episode I guess you could say. I guess it really is a new beginning. What does everyone else think?
Posted by: Lori
Tivoguy--you beat me to it! :D
Did I mention, Oh my God?
Posted by: Element
Since the title says spoilers....I guess I can just say this but what's up with the Francie look-alike? Seems kinda weird to me. But then again so does everything else that happened in that episode. I don't even know where to start talking about this thing.
Posted by: TIVO_GUY_HERE
gotta watch this one again!!
Posted by: Chandler Mike
HOLY FREAKING CRAP!
What an episode...you could tell it was a lot different from the normal style and sound, but it was still awesome...incredible plot twists and developments...it just jumped a few notches up on my favorite shows list.
One thing though I'm sad about...
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
was Francie being killed off...just as her restaurant was getting off the ground.
Also, I know ABC is trying to get ratings, but the whole "let's put Jennifer Garner in lingerie and swimsuits to attract new viewers"a little too obvious.
Great show though, bring on next week with Ethan Hawk!
Mike
Posted by: TIVO_GUY_HERE
Well
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Francine never was in much because she wasn't in the know.. now the actress will get much more air time
Posted by: KLB
Boy, you can see the hand of ABC throughout this entire episode.... "Make it more 'accessable' to the audience" = "dumb down the show and give us a super hot set of shots to run during the super bowl... oh and more skin in every episode. Did we mention the more skin part?"
ABC wants them to dumb down the show but at least JJ Abrams is a talented SOB and can do it half decent.
I think that we can see that there goes Ramaldi Artifacts, there goes pretty much most of the story arcs and almost surely no more cliffhangers.
Well, I trust JJ that he'll protect the show and keep it good but it's sure heading off in a different direction, ain't it????
Thank God all this sudden wrapping up of the SD-6 and Alliance storylines in a 20 minute segment was part of a plan and a total set-up but still....
Ahh! Francie is DEAD... but Francie lives. This fills me with both joy and sadness. It's like getting rid of the character but not getting rid of her. hmmm..
Ron Rifken remains. EXCELLENT. Unfortunately I don't think we'll see as much of him though... not so excellent.
Now that they have kissed--- who cares? Now we must wait for the obsticals to their budding romance.... <yawn>
Many people will see this episode as a Jumping of the Shark but as I said above: I have faith in JJ and will see what treats he has in store for us. As long as he stays in charge I'm sure it will be worth watching.
Posted by: GoodN
I have to say it again. Oh my God! My head is spinning.
Posted by: Lori
I am usually such a spoiler whore--but I am so glad I wasn't spoiled for that last scene!
Here is my internal dialogue as we cut to the restaurant:
I wonder who the "new intake" is...is it going to be someone new? Please don't let it be Will...or Dixon...or Mars...****! It's Francie! Was Francie always a spy? Has she been undercover this whole time? Boy, that's ironi..OMG! Blood! Geez...she killed Will. I *like* Will. :( Wait, not Will...Francie? But... But.... But....
OH MY GOD.
Go, JJ. :)
Posted by: gadgetgrrll
Wow! I'm not quite sure where they're going with this show now, but tonight was a hell of an episode!
Tuck
Posted by: Fleegle
Am I the only one who thought this episode has ruined everything that made Alias special? The Alliance has fallen, so Syd's reason for being in the CIA has evaported. Her only goal was to bring them down.
Sloane knew Jack and Syd were double-agents? Bullcrap! I don't buy that for a second. The whole Francie/Will pairing was as forced as the idea of one code giving them the ability to bring down the whole alliance in about 18 hours.
Season pass deleted.
Posted by: jkeegan
Holy %$#(%!!
Did anyone see Alias? Can you imagine watching it next week if you missed it this week?
Oh man!! If you did miss it, avoid this thread, you probably don't wanna hear any of it.. Find a friend that has the episode or something..
This show is damned amazing. :)
(Despite the title of this thread, didn't want to put any spoilers in the first post.. I'll leave it to others.. :) )
..Jeff
Posted by: cwoody222
OH MY GOD!
Had major doubts as ABC dressed Syd up in Vicky's Secrets...and then the totally out of character Will/Francie kiss...and the more out of character Syd crying...and then the "Moonlighting" kiss in SD-6 HQ with Vaughn.
But, all that was made up by the super cool ending...TWO twists in one!
I missed Mommy Dearest in this ep, though. I certainly hope they don't phase her out.
"New Beginnings" indeed...but they don't necessarily (at least at this point) seem like a bad thing.
Posted by: JSY
I can't believe that this was a mid-season episode... Next Sunday cannot come soon enough!
Posted by: jasonl99
This was the best episode yet. Awesome.
Posted by: cmontyburns
quote:
Originally posted by fleegle
Am I the only one who thought this episode has ruined everything that made Alias special?
Nope. Although I'm gonna hang with it and hope it isn't true. I loved the SD-6 - CIA pas de deux but it had to end sometime. It's not like the show could realistically do several seasons of mission-countermission, mission-countermission... it would never go anywhere. This episode was exciting enough but in the light of day all the concessions to getting rid of the old and ushering in the new are going to bother me. What about the C-4 in the basement? Why didn't someone set it off? Rutget Hauer is on the job for, what, a day and finds out what mutliple investigations of Sydney and Jack couldn't find out over the past two seasons? Will and Francie kiss, just to arbitrarily bust up the Will-Sydney-Vaughn triangle that ABC has been so relenetlessly pushing in ads? And what's going to become of Sydney's mom now? All the reasons her character was interesting (although my interest was fading fast) are now gone. (Well, maybe.)
And that ending. Please. Not the part with Sloane; that was cool. The part after that, with Francie. What is this, a daytime soap? The evil twin. Puh-leeze. Chee-sy.
Posted by: aadam101
I'm a little upset over tonight's episode. I think the show was perfect just the way it was. I didn't see a need to go and change things. They've been working for the last year and a half to bring down SD-6. Then they go and do it in one episode!!! WTF is going on with Francie. If that turns out to be clone then my season pass is being deleted!
Posted by: Fleegle
I'd like to know what the "Alias" is for now. That name no longer applies. Her only "Alias" would be any identity that she assumes on a CIA mission. Sorry, that doesn't flly. They need a new name.
Posted by: ewolfr
Exactly, they could have stretched out Phase One just a little. Geez, do they have to destroy everything we original viewers have enjoyed in just 30 minutes? Take it in a new direction but give some credit to people. Besides the only shows to get decent ratings after the Super Bowl were Friends and Survivor. ABC won't get as many new viewers as they are hoping for. I hope that the show isn't FUBAR'd now.
Posted by: JSY
Perhaps this should have been a two-hour episode considering what they accomplished. YOu're right - remember last year when Sydney thought SD-6 was just as big as that office, and then Vaughn brought out that huge map of how big this really was? Boom - it's gone in one episode.
I am not sure about the clone thing, but she sure looks like Sydney's old enemy from last season!
Posted by: cheerdude
quote:
Originally posted by fleegle
Sloane knew Jack and Syd were double-agents? Bullcrap! I don't buy that for a second. The whole Francie/Will pairing was as forced as the idea of one code giving them the ability to bring down the whole alliance in about 18 hours.
Season pass deleted.
My SP will be kept. This was a great episode in my opinion. I had my doubts when they talked about this being "A New Beginning" with trying to get new viewers. I think that they did that without alienating old ones.
How could Sloane know about Jack and Syd ? What about the note that Sark gave him when he joined SD-6?
The one-code to bring them all (down) ? Ok... a little far-fetched... but it wasn't necessarly the code that did it. All that the code do was to verify that the data that they got from Server 47 was accurate. Remember, the CIA only had about half of the 12 SD cells identified.
There is also several twists and turns in this one... to keep the rest of the season very good.
Posted by: TomK
SD-6 may be history but we now have the Sloane/Sarc 'business' to add in to the mix. They will cause problems for the CIA and should provide a lot of plot lines for our viewing pleasure. I loved tonight's episode. :)
Posted by: whitson77
It sucks when a show you really like kill itself. All story lines are gone, and the direction that this show will go looks awful. There is no way that they will recover from this. I won't delete the season pass, because even though the rating will look good this week the show will disappear by next season. Good job to the Geniuses at ABC.
Posted by: gleffler
This was my first episode of the show. I liked it quite a bit. Hearing all of you whine about it is annoying. Shush. :p
/gleffler
Posted by: Crrink
I'm curious to see where they're going with the Francie twin thing - so far I think it would've been a LOT more interesting if it had turned out that Francie was spying on Syd all along - it would make her instant hook-up with Will a lot more believable too.
Urgh. It's hard seeing a show that was really great turn into what this episode was: An above average hour of TV....the old one was WAY WAY above average, IMO.
We'll still watch, but I warned my wife tonight, I said, "Dear, one of these days we're going to catch a re-run from the first season and realize just how great this show USED to be."
Guess we'll see.
Posted by: Agent86
For more on this from these forums, see the following two links.
Beware spoilers are all over the place!
Alias "Phase One"
Alias is Changing
- Agent 86
Posted by: DancnDude
I'm willing to bet there are more twists along the way. Sloane knew exactly what was going to happen so he could very easily have given the CIA all mis-information on the airplane server and have the real information all backed up somewhere else. He'll be creating an entirely new threat to the CIA. It is hard to see where Sydney and Jack will fit into this though since what we know of "Alias" is completely gone.
Posted by: Kablemodem
I almost missed it because it started so late. I had to record the news and extend it. Good show.
Posted by: jasonl99
quote:
Originally posted by fleegle
Season pass deleted.
Riiight. And you won't watch another episode, or come in here to see how things turn out, right? :D
My guess: you'll add the season pass back in within two weeks.
Contrary to what some of you think, this episode was what Alias was in the first place - wild plot twists and never knowing exactly what's going on. Frankly, I thought it was getting rather dull and dreary in the last few weeks. The whole scene Sydney parachuting out of the plan was great.
If anything, this episode has greatly renewed my interest in the show, and put it back on the "almost willing to watch live" list.
Posted by: GoodN
I think ABC is hoping to ensure the survival of the show by making it more "attractive" for syndication. The linear format of the earlier episodes is not as easy to sell as a stand alone story arc. Sometime the bottom line necessitate creative compromise.
Posted by: jkeegan
Okay, posting my next comment in the Alias "Phase One" thread since I'd missed it. Sorry about the duplicate thread, please continue all conversations there.
Posted by: jkeegan
(created dup thread before, check here for my previous comments)
Just found this thread. My thoughts:
1) I'm glad I didn't see these threads (or the Salon article) before seeing the episode, as I'm sure it would have altered my opinion of the episode.
2) Hearing that the network is making/suggesting changes is scary, but I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that and watch to see how the show goes. As for the more contained episodes change, well that sucks, but then again many shows have worked well with very rigid formats.. Hell, The Incredible Hulk had a formula that David had to turn into the hulk about every 21 minutes, and it still was an incredible show. I want the cliff hangers, but my hope is after a few episodes that look "different", the writers will be able to quietly go back to their original plans.
3) I have one insanely crazy/cool theory about what I thought the plot was going to end up being eventually (that my wife totally disagrees with me on). I won't post it, because I'd still like to see it happen, but I'm almost sure it won't if in fact they permanently "dumb down" the show..
4) The Rhambaldi(sp?) artifacts threads were incredible, and shouldn't go away. In fact, they really can't go away. They were there since the very beginning (mentioned very early on), they're a cornerstone of the show plot wise, and they've shown that strange **** is possible.. You can't exactly undo that.. It'd be like Buffy (which I still don't watch, sorry, I'll get around to it someday) suddenly having no supernatural creatures, vampires, etc. as if it never had had them.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
5) The kiss did have me thinking "umm.. ok.. that seemed a bit rushed/corny", but then again they got the issue out of the way.. Maybe that makes room for more interesting plot lines (despite the network's intent)
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
6) Wow, really glad to see them bring in a famous actor for a character (Rutger Hauer) to have him unexpectedly die off. (no sarcasm intended)
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
7) As for the one server being available to take down the alliance, how else would they ever do it? Slowly kill off sd-[1-9],sd-1[0-2] one by one? No way, they'd rebuild, or else it'd be anticlimactic.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
8) I'm glad that at least the past month or so was involved in this change.. I was wondering where they were going with this whole "sloan's wife" thread, since way back when he was inducted into the alliance and given the implant. I'll still continue to hope (despite what I'm told) that this was still in essence part of the writers' plan since back then.. Last week made more sense than any random explanation would have for the whole sloan's wife disappearance/recurrance.. And last week's episode practically necessitated something like what we saw today..
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
9) I've got my own strange theories about the name Alias not being about her being at SD-6 (but that just being a ruse). Related to #3 above, so I ain't saying anything. I can't imagine it'll just be vanilla CIA missions. It will be interesting to see what they do about the ex-SD-6 main characters now though.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
10) When Dixon was onscreen, I was like "PULL HIM IN!!!".. Glad to see that happen, and pretty good reaction from him.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
11) No way they'll get rid of Derevko(sp). No way. See #3. :)
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
12) When they mentioned the server that could take everything down, one fear I had was that they wouldn't go through with it.. That we'd see something that could have brought it all down, but didn't.. Like David Banner allllllllmost finding that cure, but.. nope.. not this week kids.. Then every other time it'd get brought up (which would happen, since it's the "stated" goal of the show in the opening), it'd seem like an empty threat that it'd be resolved. I was happy after this to see them actually do it. I was happier to see there was something else in play after that.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
13)I think that it was inevitable that SD-6 went away. It had to. The premise of the show was getting tough to swallow, when most weeks she'd succeed in her counter mission and all of her sd-6 missions were failing. She'd be perceived as ineffectual (at least in a performance review at the end of the year! :) ), and eventually be taken off of cases. This way, we're not supposed to just buy that everyone there can't figure out that something's up with her.
14) I think the fact that I was happy after the episode was over (before reading about the change) is a good sign (to me at least) that they're handling any changes well. With the exception of #5 above, it all went pretty well.. Yeah, it felt like they were bringing a whole bunch of Super Bowl fans up-to-speed, but they do that occasionally (like the whole recap episode at the beginning of this season).
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
15) Ok, there was one other thing that seemed a bit forced (not at the time, but certainly in retrospect once the episode was over) - the sudden relationship between Will and Francie..
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
16) Speaking of that, when I saw Francie's double, I asked my wife "Have they established that they can do that yet?", frantically trying to remember if they'd ever used anyone as a complete lookalike (as other shows did that I won't name lest I spoil them). I think this is the first time for that in Alias - I'd like to hear if there was an earlier epsiode demonstrating this that I've forgotten.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
17) And, do we really know when Francie was killed? Okay, it's fresh blood on the wall, so that'd indicate it was pretty recent (very close to the time of the call at the end).. But, it'd make a hell of a lot more sense if she was already in place at the beginning of this episode.. A) She could have started the relationship with Will to get info, and B) She told Will her restaurant was suddenly profitable.. He said something like "What? How is that even possible?", maybe a hint that it wasn't, and that her new money supply was coming from Sloane(sp?)? It just seems like a huge coincidence if she just happened to start going out with him, then she was killed, right when this whole master plan was happening..
Again, I believe that the events in this episode had to be planned as far back as at least a month or two, since events in those fit best with last week, and last week almost has to cause this week. If the goal to "change the show" were some sudden abrupt change that the writers couldn't deal with, I'd guess the past month or two would have reflected some gradual change towards that, but that didn't happen. I want to see what the writers will do with this (and assume/hope for the best).
Can't wait until next week. If for some reason the writers end up not being able to handle any new changes, then it'll happen then and I'll worry about it then. I'll watch next week's episode as if I hadn't heard anything outside of the show. I still have really high hopes.
..Jeff
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
Jeff--I skipped almost all of your post, because having to keep highlighting the spoilers IN A SPOILER THREAD was too annoying.
Everybody else--Sloane knowing about the Briscows...well, yes, he did, briefly. Then he changed his mind. The section that Hauer found was a section that he wrote in a report and then deleted. IIRC, we actually saw him do that a few weeks ago.
It wasn't just one code, it was disconnect codes for all 12 branches of the Alliance. They found out about the previously-unknown branches from the flying computer. And that's why nobody set off the C4--the whole point of the codes was that they disconnected the security systems, including the self-destruct.
I thought this episode did an excellent job of Phase 1 of the master plan to reconfigure the show to make it possible for new viewers to start watching; clearing the decks of the overly complicated plotlines that made it impossible for somebody to start watching without becoming hopelessly confused. Now, we have to see how Phase 2 goes--establishing a new direction without losing what makes the show work. Jury's out on that, of course, since they haven't shown us where they're going, but the initial indications are cautiously optimistic; we have the Sloane/Sark conspiracy (and how does Mom's organization fit in?), and instead of the patently absurd (although thoroughly enjoyable) conceit of a vast evil organization whose employees think they're the CIA, we have an evil organization that the good guys don't even know exists, which certainly has dramatic possibilities.
And while I'm a little put off by the abruptness with which they dispensed with SD-6, A) it was necessary to draw in new viewers, which the show needs to survive), and B) at least they worked the abruptness of it into the storyline.
So far, so good; I hope they continue to do well with this transformation, and that it pays off in vast numbers of new viewers who keep the show alive for years to come.
Posted by: Turtleboy
Hasn't anyone mentioned the fact that the C.I.A. isn't supposed to work inside America, and it would be the F.B.I. who should be doing all of this work?
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
Well, most of the work SD-6 did was overseas, and their headquarters was overseas, so it might well fall into the CIA's jurisdiction...
(And let's face it, in terms of the suspension of disbelief necessary for this show, the jurisdictional aspects are very minor indeed!)
Posted by: jwjody
I've been watching since last season and I thought this episode was great. I'm apprehensive about where the show will go but I won't go out and delete my SP without giving it a chance. I think they're going to try and make the show more like X-Files format. They will have self contained shows then they will have shows that deal with Sloane/Sark.
I just have to say the first 5 minutes were great. Of course they had her in skimpy undies for viewership but they pulled it off cool when she asked the guy what was wrong with the black one.
I don't think there was as much inconsistency as most think. Francine and Will were good friends, come one people have you never made out with your friends before. And even if Will didn't like Fran, he's a man, she kissed him, of course he's going to want more.
Sydney's mom can still have a large part of the show, she has information that Sloane/Sark will want and she can help CIA/Syd cut them off at the pass. Syd might not know who's behind stuff at first but she will find out...maybe not until next season...
Syd's driving force wasn't necessarily to take SD-6 down, it was to take Sloane down, she said as much during last night's episode.
J
Posted by: mchasal
Regarding whether Sloane knew about the Bristows, and how easily Rutger's character found out about it. The point here is that Sloane did know and used that to his own (not yet revealed) ends. He didn't "change his mind" about the email, he had to know that his keystrokes were captured. He left that and all the other info to be found after he left. Its all part of his evil plan. The phone call with Sark at the end confirms this as he states that everything went to plan. Sloane's been planning this for a long time.
Mike
Posted by: tivospav
quote:
Originally posted by Turtleboy
Hasn't anyone mentioned the fact that the C.I.A. isn't supposed to work inside America, and it would be the F.B.I. who should be doing all of this work?
I believe that SD-6 was the only cell that operated within the United States. The others were overseas. Also, that guy Kendall (Sidney's bald boss) was part of the FBI last season. They never really explained why he came over to the CIA, but after Sidney's interrogation over the whole "prophecy" thing he must have wanted to keep a better eye on her.
Posted by: cmontyburns
OK, I've slept on it and feel a little bit better. There are some good arguments being made in this thread, which helps. And as I posted last night, I don't think that, thematically, the show could have supported the SD-6 focus forever, so it had to end sometime. Maybe I didn't expect (as someone posted previously) that it would end in 20 minutes, but... Bring on next Sunday!
The only thing I dread is upcoming Sydney-Vaughn romantic dinners. I want her character to have a social life, even if all her friends are washed-up newspapermen and evil twins, but what does she see in Vaughn? The guy just seems like a wuss.
By the way, as much as I hate that "evil Francie" soap-opera-ish twist, it does have an interesting possibility. If she and Will do end up as a couple, they'll each be on opposite sides (now that he's in at CIA) without either knowing that the other is on a side at all. That could be cool.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
You're assuming that Sloane doesn't know about Will at the CIA.
Perhaps Sloane has a shadow organization within the CIA...that would certainly make for an interesting reversal!
It will also be interesting to see how the Dixon/Marshall thing plays out...they have reason to be pissed at Syd, for lettin gthem continue to be evil. And how will the fall of SD-6 affect Mom?
This could all be very interesting...I'm somewhat more optimistic than I was before last night.
Posted by: Lori
I have merged the two threads.
Carry on. :)
Posted by: Fleegle
quote:
Originally posted by jasonl99
Riiight. And you won't watch another episode, or come in here to see how things turn out, right? :D
My guess: you'll add the season pass back in within two weeks.
Contrary to what some of you think, this episode was what Alias was in the first place - wild plot twists and never knowing exactly what's going on. Frankly, I thought it was getting rather dull and dreary in the last few weeks. The whole scene Sydney parachuting out of the plan was great.
If anything, this episode has greatly renewed my interest in the show, and put it back on the "almost willing to watch live" list.
Wrong there. I'll keep up with this one thread, but I won't be watching the show again. I've lost all interest in it now. For the record, I've never use the phrase "Jump the Shark", because I think it's a bad way to describe a show that declines over time. With THIS episode, Alias has Jumped the Shark. As someone else said, this organization was HUGE. Vaughn was pretty sure that they'd never see the end of SD-6 in their lifetime because it was so huge. Now multiply that by 12 to incorporate all of the Inititave's cells and you have an organization too large to be brought down as quickly as they did. Too clean and easy.
Posted by: Graymalkin
Heck of an episode. But I STILL want to know what the Rimbaldi artifact is!
Also:Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
I think Sloane started planning all this when he realized that the Alliance was going to force him to kill Emily. So he did this "for her," which humanizes him a little bit. Of course, being the evil bastitch that he is, you see how he engineered it.
And I think Francie very well could have been dead before the episode started, and that it's her evil clone who made out with Will.
Posted by: hckyplyr
Awesome episode!!!
Also, I liked the black one better... but they were both extremely nice!
Posted by: ybrew
I gotta think Mom was/is involved in Sloane's plans.
I still think she's evil.
Also, not sure if this was mentioned yet, but...
OMG!
Posted by: ronbo
One thing I didn't understand from the episode (forgive me if I missed something that was posted), why did Rutger Huer's character let Jack Bristow make a call to Sydney when he confronted him in the conference room? He already suspected Jack and Sydney of being double agents? He had to know that he call and warn her (which he did). Why did he let Jack make that call?
Posted by: Dafaso
Good point, ronbo. Why didn't they just page her like they usually do?
Anyway, great episode. I was getting a little tired of the double agent/counter-mission stories almost every episode. They seemed to be going no where, or at least moving very slowly. That being said, this is still one of my top 3 shows.
I'm looking forward to the new direction the show is taking. Although the "look-alike" at the end was kinda cheesy - but willing to go with it.
Posted by: grecorj
quote:
Originally posted by ronbo
One thing I didn't understand from the episode (forgive me if I missed something that was posted), why did Rutger Huer's character let Jack Bristow make a call to Sydney when he confronted him in the conference room? He already suspected Jack and Sydney of being double agents? He had to know that he call and warn her (which he did). Why did he let Jack make that call?
Rutger was trying to lure Sydney back to SD-6 HQ.
Posted by: Attack
quote:
Originally posted by gleffler
This was my first episode of the show. I liked it quite a bit. Hearing all of you whine about it is annoying. Shush. :p
/
Find a way to watch the previous episodes and if you don't whine about it then you may tell us to Shush. :D
I will watch the rest of this season and hope that it will stay as good as it was, if not this will be the Jumped The Shark episode.
They just wrapped up way to much stuff in one episode and also forced the Will/Francie stuff on us.
Also what about the Hospital that was under SD-6 control. I am sure they have at-least 100 different businesses per SD group just like the hospital and the CIA wouldn't have been able to take them all down at once.
Posted by: ronbo
quote:
Originally posted by grecorj
Rutger was trying to lure Sydney back to SD-6 HQ.
Guess that didn't quite work out the way he planned. They need to posthumously revoke his spy school diploma!
Posted by: mchasal
Well, the idea was to get Sydney to come in voluntarily without any fuss. Having Jack call her wouldn't arouse her suspicions as much as if Rutger called her directly.
That being said, it was a little naive for Rutger to not have thought of Jack tipping her off with a code, but I'll write that off to dramatic license.
Mike
Posted by: HoosierFan
I think it's a good possibility that Mom is involved in with Sloane and Sark. That would at least make a little sense as to why she turned herself in.
Posted by: GoodN
Good News! Season 1 DVD will be released in the fall and Alias may be going to the big screen.
http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/insider/030127a.asp
Posted by: ybrew
My biggest disappointment with the episode...
I saw the TiVo Guide Data and new Rutger Hauer was going to be the new SD-6 Director.
I was so EXCITED that he would become a permanent member of the cast.
:(
Another crazy thing...
Dixon emailed Sidney!
How crazy is that!!!
Posted by: brahamt
I was not so happy with the ep last night, but after a night of sleep, I was furious. I'm not leaving the show just yet, because they still have some interesting things happening. But it is clear where they are going, and I don't like it (hope I'm wrong).
Clearly, Vaughn and Syd are intended to have some relationship out in the open now, but part of the appeal is that they could not act on their impulses (when clearly they wanted to).
Last night's ep turned a fairly smart fast paced show into a soap opera. If it keeps the show on the air, clearly that is the right thing to do for the show. It's just that I felt cheated at the end of the day, that's all.
And I was hoping for a good game too.
Posted by: hughvh
quote:
Originally posted by Attack
Also what about the Hospital that was under SD-6 control. I am sure they have at-least 100 different businesses per SD group just like the hospital and the CIA wouldn't have been able to take them all down at once.
But without the local SD directors or the inner circle of the Alliance, those other agents would be lost without direction. (And allot of them thought they were working for the CIA in the first place.)
Posted by: MGREEN1107
My tivo only picked up Alias for 10:15 - 11:15 EST. I missed some of the show. Does anyone know how I can get a copy of it?
Posted by: markz
quote:
Originally posted by hckyplyr
Awesome episode!!!
Also, I liked the black one better... but they were both extremely nice!
I loved every minute of this episode. I actually sat through the end of the Super Bowl & the post game just so I wouldn't miss anything! And of course the opening scenes were the best.
Although I liked the cut of the black one best, red's my color! So overall, Red wins!
As for the rest of the episode, I liked almost everything. The kiss between Francie & Will seemed natural to me seeing how close of friends they are. Been there, done that myself.
The kiss between Sydney & Vaughn was plausible. After all, they were working on pure adrenaline at that moment and had wanted to do that all along! They had just accomplished a long-time goal in bringing down SD-6.
I would like to have had several episodes with Rutger Hauer. I have always liked him as a bad guy!
I hope that they pull in Dixon & Marshall! Or even better, it would be cool to find out Dixon was an ultra-evil bad guy and knew about SD-6 all along! Or how about if Marshall has been playing dumb all along & is evil too!
I'd like to see more of Sydney's mom too! Too bad there wasn't a two-for-one in the opening scenes with one in red & one in black! :) Wishful thinking!
I was blown away by the evil double at the end! I just said "Wow!" out loud when they showed that!
I will definitely keep my SP for Alias!
Posted by: Dignan
For what it's worth I'd like to throw in a "Wow" and an "Oh my God". I knew this episode would be crafted to be sensational, but I wasn't expecting what took place. I loved how they basically threw in just about every dramatic/emotional thread, the kiss, telling Dixon, SD-6 going down, exposure, etc. Now it has a whole new direction to follow, I think the nay sayers should allow the show to move on, see what happens.
If they had to give the "population" of viewers this type of episode to lure them in, let them. The alternative is an expensive show with no viewers and no more episodes.
I'd say 24 had some bumps last year, look at it now.
Bring on the rest of the season!!!
Posted by: jwjody
Sydney never shot Rutger Hauer in the head, only the chest. It's possible he was wearing a vest and in some way shape or form got out.
I don't think the evil twin is the one who kissed Will. Weren't the three of them in the restaurant when Will and Evil Twin told Syd they made out? And at the end wasn't the real Francie dead in the kitchen of the restaurant? If ET shot Francie before she kissed Will and shot her in the restaurant then obviously someone would have noticed a dead restaurant owner in the kitchen. Unless ET had Francie tied up somewhere, kissed Will, then took her to a kitchen and shot her.
J
Posted by: markz
quote:
Originally posted by jwjody
I don't think the evil twin is the one who kissed Will. Weren't the three of them in the restaurant when Will and Evil Twin told Syd they made out? And at the end wasn't the real Francie dead in the kitchen of the restaurant? If ET shot Francie before she kissed Will and shot her in the restaurant then obviously someone would have noticed a dead restaurant owner in the kitchen. Unless ET had Francie tied up somewhere, kissed Will, then took her to a kitchen and shot her.
J
I thought the real Francie kissed Will & told Sydney they made out. I think the killing of the real Francie took place right at the end, probably after the restaurant closed.
Posted by: TivoZorro
Here are my thoughts on last nights Alias episode. Right after they destroyed SD-6 and before Sydney and Vaughn kissed I thought is this a "dream" episode. Turned out not to be true.
At first I was highly dismayed at the take down of SD-6. Made me think about Dark Angel the end of season one where Max takes out Manticore and ruins the whole show during the second season with her love affair with Eyes Only. But Alias has left plenty of villians in place with Sloane and Sark with lots of storyline potenial.
I loved that Francie got killed at the end. She was one of the most useless and boring characters on the show. The fact that it looks like "her replacemnt" is Sydney's rival spy competitor from last year. (the Cuban/Russian gal) make it even more fantastic. I don't think it's an evil twin thing but the spy pretending to be her and working on behalf of Sloane and Sark. Will have to rewind the end of the episode to see that part again. I loved those scenes last year when the two female spies went head to head.
I am sad to see the arrest of Dixon and Marshall. At least they didn't kill off the characters. There is potential for them to be recruited to work for the real CIA or to escape and become evil and exact revenge on Sydney and Jack. I hope they don't jump dump them off the show.
Alias will never be as good as it was but I agree with other people who think that because of the ratings drop it won't be around for a third season. So I guess I'll enjoy it while it lasts.
Posted by: ybrew
I too thought dream sequence.
And it sounds like i'm the only one that didn't dislike Francine. I was certain we were gonna see Will's body. That would have pissed me off, but I think it'd have been better if the real Francine was always evil.
Posted by: jasonl99
quote:
Originally posted by brahamt
Last night's ep turned a fairly smart fast paced show into a soap opera.
It's funny, when I read this comment I thought exactly the reverse. The show was becoming a soap opera with its predictability, and they turned it into a fairly smart fast paced show ;).
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
...and why is it more of a soap opera to have two people dealing with each other than to have two people endlessly pining after eachother?!?
I think the only reason Marshall and Dixon were arrested was because they arrested everybody; it shouldn't take long to figure out (especially with Syd & Jack's testimony, and the CIA's deep knowledge of SD-6's inner workings) that they were innocent. I'm sure they're not just being dumped, and I'm sure they're valuable enough to be put to work; I'm also sure that we're in for some very interesting social dynamics, because they're both decent people, who will no doubt resent Syd's allowing them to remain evil when she could have set them straight. (And yes, I know, intellectually she was doing her job and couldn't risk the mission, but intellect and emotion don't always go hand in hand...)
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
quote:
Originally posted by tivospav
I believe that SD-6 was the only cell that operated within the United States.
This one slipped by me earlier...
SD-6 almost always operated OUTSIDE the US. In fact, offhand, I can't remember a single instance when they had a mission here, although I'm sure somebody will set me straight.
Which is kind of odd, although it fits with their cover as the CIA. What happened when the Alliance needed something done in the US? Did they have the German branch take care of it? :D
Or maybe there was a secret branch of SD-6 that thought they were a covert branch of the FBI...
Posted by: grecorj
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
SD-6 almost always operated OUTSIDE the US. In fact, offhand, I can't remember a single instance when they had a mission here, although I'm sure somebody will set me straight.
To set you straight ;)
SD-6 did operate 95% outside the US, but I can recall several missions that took place w/in the US. One that stands out is the buried nuclear missile that Sydney had to disarm by calling Marshall; Vaughn was upset b/c she didn't call the CIA. The warhead was buried someplace in the South, I don't recall the specific state. This was early Season 1 I believe.
Posted by: grecorj
quote:
Originally posted by markz
I thought the real Francie kissed Will & told Sydney they made out. I think the killing of the real Francie took place right at the end, probably after the restaurant closed.
I'd agree with that -- because the alternative answer is that she was standing over Francie's body for a day or two waiting for Sark's call. Unlikely.
Posted by: TreborPugly
quote:
Originally posted by jasonl99
This was the best episode yet. Awesome.
Yes,
I think it made an excellent Finale!
Now, the new show might be good, but this was the Finale of Alias to me.
Treb.
Posted by: brettatk
Well, whether you like it or not, it looks like the consensus says it was a great episode. I will have to agree. Reading some of these threads have me laughing so hard. I mean how over dramatic does a person have to be to say "That's it, I'm never watching this show again!" just because they disliked ONE show out of 2 seasons so far? Nobody but the actors and writers know what is going to happen from here on out. Whose to say the show is not going to get better week by week? I mean there is a reason why the writers are writing this show and we are watching it. And lastly, nobody really cares whether you stop watching it or not.
Brett
Sorry, had to edit this because of an error. I had mistakingly typed 3 seasons instead of 2, or as pointed out, 1 1/2 seasons. Thanks Medieval Guy for pointing it out.
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
Well, one and a half seasons...but other than that, I agree with you 100%!
Posted by: Philosofy
I can accept the end of SD-6, but there are four things I want to stay:
1. Marshall
2. Dixon
3. Rimbaldi artifacts
4. Sydney's Mom
5. Marshall (hey, I like Marshall. I hope he gets spun off into his own series. Or at least have the Lone Gunman make appearances as some of his friends.)
Posted by: HoosierFan
Which four?
Posted by: aadam101
As far as SD-6 operating in the U.S., I believe there was also a mission in Las Vegas. I've been thinking about this all day and maybe it's not so bad. Maybe Sloane stole intel from the Alliance (he obviuosly knows a lot anyway). He needed to get rid of the Aliiance simply because he wasn't in control the way that he wanted to be. He must have some friends that were working for the Alliance. Maybe his plan is to start a new agency. This way he has complete control and he still has his wife. What I think I'm going to miss the most are the scenes between him and Sydney. I always like it when he would be fatherly to her while she cringed.
Posted by: ClutchBrake
quote:
Originally posted by jwjody
Sydney never shot Rutger Hauer in the head, only the chest. It's possible he was wearing a vest and in some way shape or form got out.
There looked to be quite a bit of blood spurting when she shot him the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th times. I, too, was looking for a vest.
To me, this was definitely the end of Alias. Whether or not I will like the new show is still to be determined.
Posted by: betativoII
quote:
Originally posted by TivoZorro
Here are my thoughts on last nights Alias episode. Right after they destroyed SD-6 and before Sydney and Vaughn kissed I thought is this a "dream" episode. Turned out not to be true.
At first I was highly dismayed at the take down of SD-6. Made me think about Dark Angel the end of season one where Max takes out Manticore and ruins the whole show during the second season with her love affair with Eyes Only. But Alias has left plenty of villians in place with Sloane and Sark with lots of storyline potenial.
I loved that Francie got killed at the end. She was one of the most useless and boring characters on the show. The fact that it looks like "her replacemnt" is Sydney's rival spy competitor from last year. (the Cuban/Russian gal) make it even more fantastic.
From what I could see, it was the same actress (Merrin Dungy), playing the part of Francie's twin. I agree with Ybrew though...my first thought was that she was evil and in on the whole thing from the beginning. I LOVE that idea!
Posted by: TiVoLance
quote:
This was my first episode of the show. I liked it quite a bit. Hearing all of you whine about it is annoying. Shush.
This was my first time watching as well (besides getting lost in the pilot first season). I must say I enjoyed it. Guess they did good sucking in new viewers ;)
Posted by: LoadStar
This wasn't the end of a show - this was more a new beginning (and no, I'm not saying that because the ads were jamming that phrase down our throats). Throughout this episode, you had very "pilot" like devices, such as subtitling "SD-6 Headquarters" when they first showed a shot from within SD-6. More obviously, the scene from the beginning where they had the (rather convenient) guests in that they had to explain to who Sydney and Jack were and what they did (also known as the "Welcome New Alias Viewers" scene).
While it picked up on things that had occured previously, such as the secret CIA headquarters where Sydney jogged to at the beginning, and the fact that Sloane was off somewhere else, this episode basically set out the premise "These are our characters, this is what they did, they done gone blown that up now, moving on." You needed to know very little of what happened prior to understand this episode - in fact, had none of the last 1 1/2 years aired, this episode would not have lacked much.
Now: the question to be asked is, was it a good idea to abandon the bulk of what the series was about? I think so. While Alias made a habit of stretching credibility, the constant CIA missions Syd was on without SD-6 noticing was starting to stretch credibility to the breaking point. Plus, as someone mentioned before, Syd's constant deliberate bungling of SD-6 missions should have set off any competent agency's red flags.
And so far, I don't see any major difference in the way the series is told... they just eliminated one big bad and replaced it with another. The writing staff is probably all the same, the characters are all the same, and this episode felt like any that had come previous (with the pivotal events of this episode notwithstanding).
My only question is - now that Syd's and Jack's covers are firmly and completely blown to smithereens, how they're going to be able to function as covert ops agents. Are they eventually going to write out Sloane and his new organization, and just have Syd doing normal CIA infiltration of random-enemy-of-the-state baddies?
Anyway. All that aside, I enjoyed this episode. I saw spoilers for events in this episode, like the whole SD-6 going away - but I had no idea that everything I heard was going to happen all in this episode. I assumed that it would be more gradual, like as a big end-of-season thing SD-6 going bye-bye. I had no idea about Francie, nor that they were going to kiss off all of the alliance, or that they'd bring Dixon in on the side of good.
I hope they don't write off Dixon and Marshall... although I don't know how they'd write them back in at this point. In reality, all the agents of SD-6 would likely be tried as enemies of the state... even if found not guilty, I doubt that the CIA would welcome them with open arms. Guess we'll have to find out what happens to them.
Posted by: aadam101
You're forgetting that just a few weeks ago the CIA was more than willing to pull Marshall out of SD-6 and into the CIA. I think that both of them will have to choose sides. Do they want to work for the CIA or do they want to work for Sloan? We really don't know what Marshall or Dixon knw about SD-6. Maybe they've known all along.
Posted by: Dignan
You know, they never did reveal what the note said that Sark gave to Sloan on the geisha girl episode. I wonder who else is involved with his plan, and what of K-directive (sp).
Posted by: scottivo72
Transcript of Sloane's email. Words with (parentheses) are best guess. :)
=.beginning of message.=
(?),
It is with serious concern that I (must) admit several leadership lapses at SD-6. The cause of which I can only attribute to my (moral) failings.
My own (sense) of familiarity with two agents in particular has blinded me to (more) obvious leaks that (are) responsible for the lack of progress within this cell. Time and again, I have promised (success), only to see it falter due to my own blind (spot). And (even) though, many agents within SD-6 have questioned me regarding the identity of (those) leaks, I refused to pay attention.
(But) the recent tragedy regarding my wife has (caused) me to put my responsibilities in (order). And I must admit, the blinders are now off, and my (?/?) will no longer intervene with my abilities to perform as the head of this agency. ==delete.1== I have learned that Jack and Sydney Bristow are double agents, working against SD-6. Their true allegiances at this point are unknown. But I (intend) to make it my top priority to find the (cover) behind this and (?) out the traitor - ==delete.2== (first) with the father, then with the daughter. ==end delete.2== and I believe that (one) Bristow might be able to work against the other. ==end delete.1==
At this point, it would be unfair to (reveal) the
=.end of message.=
Posted by: KLB
quote:
This was my first episode of the show. I liked it quite a bit. Hearing all of you whine about it is annoying. Shush.
PLEASE don't consider all of us being annoyed by this episode or elements of it as us complaining about the show--- I think it's just the opposite.
I'm a HUGE fan of the show and will continue to be so, it's just that there has been such a DRAMATIC change in the direction of the show and all the plot-lines, character interaction and basic set-up of the show has changed. All in one episode.
I would recommend this show still to anyone.
Here's some great news: JJ was talking to TVGuide and said that the Season One DVD set will be out in September with a bunch of extras including:
"There are going to be a lot of great special features," he says of the mult-disc set, which is slated to arrive in stores on Sept. 2. "When I filmed the pilot, a good friend of mine shot like eight or nine hours of behind-the-scenes footage and did interviews with most of the cast. So, in addition to a number of other really cool features, we're going to edit together a behind-the-scenes piece on the making of the pilot."
Posted by: BeanMeScot
This show was a great 2nd Pilot for the show. I was also surprised they they wrapped up the SD-6 story in a neat little 20 minute package. I think they could have gotten a lot of story out of the take down but the premise of the episode was a new beginning. I think they accomplished that.
A lot of people are complaining about the big change but, I also recall, there were a lot of people complaining that the shows just weren't as good as they used to be. Maybe this new direction will revitalize the show. I used to watch this show the same night it aired. Lately, it had languished in my Now Playing List for a few days. It did not languish long on Sunday and I will be watching it quickly, for now.
Posted by: grecorj
quote:
Originally posted by LoadStar
Now: the question to be asked is, was it a good idea to abandon the bulk of what the series was about? I think so. While Alias made a habit of stretching credibility, the constant CIA missions Syd was on without SD-6 noticing was starting to stretch credibility to the breaking point. Plus, as someone mentioned before, Syd's constant deliberate bungling of SD-6 missions should have set off any competent agency's red flags.
And so far, I don't see any major difference in the way the series is told... they just eliminated one big bad and replaced it with another. The writing staff is probably all the same, the characters are all the same, and this episode felt like any that had come previous (with the pivotal events of this episode notwithstanding).
My only question is - now that Syd's and Jack's covers are firmly and completely blown to smithereens, how they're going to be able to function as covert ops agents. Are they eventually going to write out Sloane and his new organization, and just have Syd doing normal CIA infiltration of random-enemy-of-the-state baddies?
I agree with the bulk of your analysis, LoadStar, especially the sections above.
I have to say that since the beginning of this season I'd been wondering how long they could stick with the double agent stuff without making it rote. After all, what is the difference where Sydney works? She's still doing spy stuff. And how much suspense was left in the "will SD6 catch her" storyline? They kind of played that out when Dixon called her on the "call sign" thing from when he got shot. I mean, when SD6 had an ops meeting, only Dixon and Marshall were the ones who actually believed they worked for the CIA! Jack, Sloane, Sydney, Sark -- they all knew the "real deal".
So I guess in answer to your last question, LoadStar: I suppose Syd's primary mission at this point will be taking down Sloane's/Sark's organization from the outside.
But here's a scenario I don't think has been discussed yet:
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
What if Sloane/Sark believe that Jack and Syd are actually working with Syd's mom now? In other words, they still don't know they are CIA but instead see them as "competitors". Then the CIA could let Syd/Jack/Irina run a fake "evil organization" that continuously tried to disrupt Sloane's/Sark's work. At some point, Sloane could even offer a new "alliance" with the Bristows which would bring them back inside the fold for new double agent spying stuff.
Posted by: Jeff Edsell
Put me on the "loved it" side.
To me, the weakest point in the show has always been that everyone in SD-6 believed they were working for the CIA. Well, they've done away with that, haven't they?
When the CIA was handing Sydney her gear for the plane mission, I said to my wife, "The CIA needs a Marshall."
Marshall: See, now, these are earrings, like you might wear, you know, on a date --(holds them to his ears, speaks in a high-pitched "girl" voice) Um, hi, nice to meet you, I'm Sydney, you must be -- (sticks himself in the ear) -- ow, ow...
This whole plot of Sloane's probably had its genesis back around the time Sark had Syd deliver Sloane, and the two struck a deal. Perhaps Sloane engineered that as well.
And between them, Sark and Sloane probably have more info about Rambaldi devices than any other organization on earth (except possibly the CIA -- but once Sloane knew the Bristows were double agents, he may have started hiding things from them).
Posted by: ClutchBrake
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Edsell
When the CIA was handing Sydney her gear for the plane mission, I said to my wife, "The CIA needs a Marshall."
Marshall: See, now, these are earrings, like you might wear, you know, on a date --(holds them to his ears, speaks in a high-pitched "girl" voice) Um, hi, nice to meet you, I'm Sydney, you must be -- (sticks himself in the ear) -- ow, ow...
OMG, that is absolutely perfect! :eek: :up: Are you a writer for Alias? :confused: ;) :)
Posted by: Jeff Edsell
quote:
Originally posted by ClutchBrake
OMG, that is absolutely perfect! :eek: :up: Are you a writer for Alias? :confused: ;) :)
I wish...
Thanks for the kind words. My wife liked it too, when I acted it out for her while we were watching the show.
Posted by: whitson77
Sark a double agent? I think Sark is excellent. My favorite character. I know it seems like he couldn't possibly be a good guy and really I could care less...But he could have killed Sydney multiple times and chose not to. Maybe he is working with British Intel.
Posted by: jwjody
quote:
Originally posted by whitson77
But he could have killed Sydney multiple times and chose not to. Maybe he is working with British Intel.
I always thought he kinda had a crush on Syd and that's why he didn't want to hurt her.
J
Posted by: DanT
Right now, I'm just hoping that Will doesn't figure out that Francie is not the real Francie when they kiss again. "Hey, that's not how Francie kisses!" That would be too cliched for me.
Posted by: TreborPugly
quote:
Originally posted by DanT
Right now, I'm just hoping that Will doesn't figure out that Francie is not the real Francie when they kiss again. "Hey, that's not how Francie kisses!" That would be too cliched for me.
Rather, my guess is that she gives him the brush off, leading to a couple of weeks worth of minimal contact with him wondering what he did wrong.
Treb.
Posted by: ClutchBrake
quote:
Originally posted by TreborPugly
Rather, my guess is that she gives him the brush off, leading to a couple of weeks worth of minimal contact with him wondering what he did wrong.
Treb.
That sounds like a woman... :D
Posted by: Philosofy
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Edsell
Marshall: See, now, these are earrings, like you might wear, you know, on a date --(holds them to his ears, speaks in a high-pitched "girl" voice) Um, hi, nice to meet you, I'm Sydney, you must be -- (sticks himself in the ear) -- ow, ow...
Great bit! I'd like to see Marshall take over for John Cleese in the Bond franchise. (Off topic: I saw a poll that wanted Jude Law for the new Bond. Has Pierce quit?)
Posted by: DreadPirateRob
Over at E! Online, Wanda (the TV maven who is a big Alias - and Buffy, Angel, etc., fan who typically has pretty reliable spoilers and info) has posted some spoilers on Francie and some of the upcoming Alias eps. Check it out here:
http://www.eonline.com/Gossip/Wanda...003/030127.html
If you don't want to click over, here's a quick summary:
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
1) She alludes to the fact that Francie's evil twin may in fact be a clone (reference to Dolly - the cloned sheep (or is it lamb? Can never remember)
2) Marshall appears definitely headed to the CIA, and Wanda thinks Dixon will follow
3) Syd and Vaughn are going to progress past the "hold hands and kiss" stage.
As for me - I absolutely loved this epsiode. My jaw dropped flat to the ground, my eyes glazed over, and I kept repeating "Holy $h!t". Thanks to the joy that is Tivo I rewound the last 20 seconds about a dozen times (as a side note, can you imagine not having Tivo and watching that ep? You would have thought you had an LSD flashback or something).
Some random thoughts about it:
1) I've tried and tried, but I can't decide whether I liked the black or the red better. Every time I think I've made up my mind, the other color gets all bitter and stops talking to me. I guess it comes down to mood. The red seemed a little softer, especially with the flowing see-through robe. The black on the other hand, was definitely more take-charge, and nicely accessorized with the riding whip. Personal choice. BTW - I can't believe the SD-6 russkie didn't like the black - the moment I saw him I had him pegged for an S&M fan.
2) I don't think the jurisdictional issue is an issue at all. It would seem that the CIA would be concerned most of all with the Alliance, which is clearly a multi-national organization and would thus be within the CIA's mandate. SD-6 is the only cell operating on domestic soil, and it would seem a bit silly to have the FBI run with the SD-6 investigation while the CIA handled the rest of the cells. Of course, that would assume that our government acted logically and efficiently. Hey - it's TV!
3) I'm glad Will didn't die. As someone said earlier - their big fear after seeing Evil Twin was the she was actually Francie, and the blood smear that we were slowly (maddeningly slow) panning along was none other than Will. When it turned out to be Francie, I was a bit relieved. Chalk it up to character development. We have seen much more of Will, and although he was a whiny beeyatch last season, I really like him this year.
Posted by: whitson77
If she is a clone I am out! My wife can watch it by herself. Unless Sark becomes a bigger player. Than maybe I will get sucked back in, but the cheese factor may be becoming too much.
Posted by: Graymalkin
quote:
Originally posted by whitson77
If she is a clone I am out! My wife can watch it by herself. Unless Sark becomes a bigger player. Than maybe I will get sucked back in, but the cheese factor may be becoming too much.
The high-tech on this show is so high it would challenge Starfleet. A clone wouldn't be the most far-fetched thing they've done.
Posted by: Jeff Edsell
quote:
Originally posted by Graymalkin
The high-tech on this show is so high it would challenge Starfleet. A clone wouldn't be the most far-fetched thing they've done.
Perhaps Rambaldi perfected cloning centuries ago...
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
Well, according to the program descriptions, the next episode involves Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
face-changing technology, which would lend credence to the theory that this is actually the Evil Russian Chick.
Posted by: ybrew
Sydney really hasn't blown many missions for SD-6 if you think about it.
Yeah, lots of stuff she was supposed to retrieve didn't give results SD-6 hoped for, but she usually brought back counterfeit items to sd-6. Her missions for SD-6 were almost always successful as far as her doing her job.
Posted by: whitson77
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Edsell
Perhaps Rambaldi perfected cloning centuries ago...
LOL. Where is good old Rambaldi? He seems to have been washed away with the big red ball. They have distanced from that.
Posted by: DanT
I'm thinking that the Evil Francie is not any sort of clone or twin, but simply the same K-Directorate chick that Syd fought last year. Of course, with plastic surgery, and some sort of technology implant to alter her voice. WAY easier to believe than cloning or an evil twin.
Posted by: smak
Didn't one of the earlier bad guys have plastic surgery. I'm sure that's it...
About this episode and the future:
The facts are ABC pays the bills, and they said they wanted to make some changes to the show.
And i'd say JJ was 100% succesful in getting the show to a new point, maybe one he didn't want to quite yet, but nevertheless...
Knowing that this was a "new beginning", i feared that everything would be smiles and giggles at the end. Not even close....
There were two touches i really liked.
first, i think the whole jen in lingerie (thank you God), was JJ's wink to the ABC guys. "So, you want a bigger audience, here you go"
And, at the end with Francie II hovering over Francie I, screen goes blank
ALIAS..
I thought that was funny. A new alias.
-smak-
edited to fix wrong name.
Posted by: Hunter Green
If the show isn't going to become a routine CIA mission of the week, and I'm sure it isn't, they need to have a way for the Bristows and/or the CIA to pick up on the fact that something's going on fairly quickly, even if they don't know what. And they have several possible ways to do that:
Sloane's sudden disappearance is suspicious, but I don't think conclusive. After all, they think Sloane's disappearance is the cause of these events (by way of his replacement slipping up and dropping an important clue in their laps).
However, they'll soon notice that Sark wasn't amongst those picked up during the raid, and that might raise a red flag.
It's also possible that the sudden Will/Francie thing will become a clue, when the replacement Francie (I also thought maybe it was Anna Espinoza post-plastic-surgery) doesn't know about it. Presumably she's been studying up on Francie for a while so she could step into the role and fool everyone, but at the same time, the very suddenness of that development could be why it's the one thing she doesn't know about. Still, it's hard to imagine that Will comes on to her, she responds inappropriately, and that's what tips anyone off to something odd going on -- plus they wouldn't put something as big as a doppelganger into the story just to blow it one week later!
As for body duplication ("cloning" though I think that term should be reserved for what it actually is), I too would be a bit disappointed if they just casually had this capability. Its impact on the game of espionage is too huge, and whoever had it would have been using it all along. However, a point of interest: remember the doctor who had Vaughn on a table and was cutting into people's heads back in the season premiere? We never found out what he was doing.
I for one can well believe that Sloane has known about Sydney and Jack for a while. It seems likely he's been planning to take The Alliance down since the day he was told he had to kill his wife, or if not then, since the day Sark had that other thing to tell him in the ambulance that we never found out. Perhaps he was sending Sydney on all these Rimbaldi and other important missions (like that missile guidance system) specifically to keep them out of SD-6's hands, so that when The Alliance went down, those items would be safe. (Perhaps safe where his ally, currently earning gobs of trust deep inside the CIA by helping her ex-family on missions, could eventually get to them?)
In fact, the fact that Jack and Sydney's records were a mass of red flags was pointed out directly by Rutger Hauer's character (in a line that almost seemed to echo the comments made by people here and in other fora -- a nod to us?). This agrees that Sloane must have known and covered it up because he could use it for his own purposes -- at the very least, as a way to leak info to the CIA (like the tipoff about Server 47), and probably a whole lot more.
Posted by: jlb
One thought I had is that Irinia has been working Sloane and Sark all along. "Yes, I would like to turn myself in to the CIA and help bring down the alliance (so when I get back with S&S, we will be the most powerful)".
This is obviously a very obvious way they could go, so it is probably not the way they will go.
I just love this show.......
And to feed the image a little bit more:
quote:
Back in black
I hit the sack
I've been too long I'm glad to be back [I bet you know I'm...]
Yes, I'm let loose
From the noose
That's kept me hanging about
I've been looking at the sky
'Cause it's gettin' me high
Forget the hearse 'cause I never die
I got nine lives
Cat's Eyes
Abusin' every one of them and running wild
CHORUS:
'Cause I'm back
Yes, I'm back
Well, I'm back
Yes, I'm back
Well, I'm back, back
(Well) I'm back in black
Yes, I'm back in black
Back in the back
Of a Cadillac
Number one with a bullet, I'm a power pack
Yes, I'm in a bang
With a gang
They've got to catch me if they want me to hang
Cause I'm back on the track
And I'm beatin' the flack
Nobody's gonna get me on another rap
So look at me now
I'm just makin' my play
Don't try to push your luck, just get out of my way
CHORUS
Well, I'm back, Yes I'm back
Well, I'm back, Yes I'm back
Well, I'm back, back
Well I'm back in black
Yes I'm back in black
hooo yeah
Ohh yeah
Yes I am
Oooh yeah, yeah Oh yeah
Back in now
Well I'm back, I'm back
Back, I'm back
Back, I'm back
Back, I'm back
Back, I'm back
Back
Back in black
Yes I'm back in black
Out of the sight
Posted by: Blahblah2000
quote:
Originally posted by smak
And, at the end with Marcie II hovering over Marcie I, screen goes blank
ALIAS..
I thought that was funny. A new alias.
-smak-
Must've missed that part....who's Marcie?
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
Francie.
(But she acts like a Marcie...)
Posted by: Ilovetorecord2
I did not get that episode recorded as it recorded the superbowl afterwards and I can not find a repeat.
SO if anyone has Phase One on tivo and tape it and send it to me I would pay for the tape and shipping.
Posted by: JSY
quote:
Originally posted by jlb
One thought I had is that Irinia has been working Sloane and Sark all along. "Yes, I would like to turn myself in to the CIA and help bring down the alliance (so when I get back with S&S, we will be the most powerful)".
Actually I thought the same thing but that might have been too obvious - however, it would seem to fit.
But a part of me just continues to believe that Irina has changed because of her feelings for Sydney. I mean, she even had an interest in the relationship between Vaugh and Sydney.
So, I'm thinking that maybe Irina gave herself up to the CIA with the initial intention of bringing down SD-6 and the Alliance (in cahoots with Sloan and Sark) with the help of the CIA. However, she changed while in the cell after her experiences with Sydney, and she is totally clean. However, it will come out that Irina, Sloan, and Sark were all working together with Irina then saying that she's changed now. The CIA (and the audience) is not sure whether or not to believe her, so she remains jailed. But in the end (whenever that may be, Irina is sincere.
LOL, of course none of my predictions have ever come true, so. . .
Posted by: jkeegan
By the way,
Anyone still afraid that they'll dump the Rambaldi threads, here's a hint that they won't, but rather are pretending to give ABC something "simpler"..
In the very episode that's making this transition to the "new" format, what brings down SD6 and the rest of the Alliance?
Server 47.
And what page was the invisible page that prophesized about Sydney, her mother, or someone with similar DNA that looked like them?
:D
Posted by: KLB
I think you can kiss Rambaldi good-bye. I don't think a complex storyline about an ancient inventor really fits in with ABC's idea of "accessable"--- unless of course he was also a designer of lingerie. Then they might go for it. :cool:
Irena is totally, 100% absolutely there to upset the game and meet her own agenda. She is playing Syd and Jack, the CIA and who knows who else. Irena Derevko is a dangerous, intelligent enemy and as Jack said "... as soon as you start trusting her she will gut you..."
Jack was right about her from the start. Evil, baby, she is evil.
Posted by: Family
I read this thread, but forget....... has anyone mentioned that Sydney phoned Will to get out of town with Francie? What's up with that? They bothered to put the scene in. Must mean something.
Posted by: Jeff Edsell
Hey -- if the Francie on the cell phone wasn't the real Francie, maybe the dead Francie wasn't the real Francie either! Maybe the real Francie is with Will!
I mean, if you're gonna make one Francie, why not make a bunch...:D
Posted by: jlb
Possible spoiler on upcoming episode from the Guide Data:
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Seems like an upcoming episode, don't remember if it is this weeks or next, has Dixon telling his wife about the whole CIA/SD-6 thing. My guess is Dixon will be torn, mad, angered, confused, etc. But I bet his wife will tell him that he has to go back to the CIA and help to take down people like Sark, Sloane, etc. He will wrestle with it, but I gotta believe he will be kept in the fold. ABC would never write his character out at this point.
And I have to also agree with the above comment that Marshall would make a great Q/M/whatever in the Bond series. Don't get me wrong, I think John Cleese does a good job of it, but you just gotta love the Marshall character......
Posted by: Rosenkavalier
quote:
Originally posted by Ilovetorecord2
I did not get that episode recorded as it recorded the superbowl afterwards and I can not find a repeat.
SO if anyone has Phase One on tivo and tape it and send it to me I would pay for the tape and shipping.
If you have broadband (or know someone who does), we discussed getting the show online in this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...4723#post974723 (BitTorrent and eMule are mentioned)
Posted by: cmontyburns
Good article discussing a lot of this in the current Entertainment Weekly. It covers mainy of the main points of discussion in this thread. Very timely!
http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,...ngsuper,00.html
Posted by: DancnDude
Awesome article! Thanks for posting it. It gives me hope that they won't really dumb down the plot.
Posted by: Hunter Green
Abrams told Merrin Dungey to start training last May???? Geez, all the theories suggesting Sloane has been building to this for a long time suddenly hold a lot more credence.
Posted by: cmontyburns
quote:
Originally posted by DancnDude
It gives me hope that they won't really dumb down the plot.
I agree. It really gave me a lot of hope. And a little satisfaction that JJ was feeling some of the same problems with the show that I was!
Posted by: coldtoes
Just got to watch this last night! Great episode, great article. And the article confirmed some of my recent dissatisfaction with the show -- it just hasn't had the same zip this season, and the "OMG will Sloane/Dixon/Sark/etc. blow Syd's cover while she yet again barely manages to bring back a useless duplicate of the real target item again?" was really straining credibility.
I usually hate it when I hear talk that a show needs to be made more "accessible" by relying less on continuing plotlines. That tends to mean dumbing down the show at the expense of its loyal viewers. But in Alias's case, I wanted the show back the way I'd loved it the first season: fast paced and exciting without being bogged down in details.
The cliffhangers, as used in season 1, were consistent with this so I hope they will return in that way -- each episode would leave Sydney in a dangerous spot, enticing you to watch next week. But then than storyline was resolved within the first 5 minutes or so of the next episode, so people who weren't regular viewers wouldn't feel left out.
I know some of you felt this was Alias being disloyal to what it's been, but for me, it's getting back to its roots with something new and fresh. And obviously continuing character development will continue -- look at all the nice new material we've been given with Francie, Will, Sloane, and Sark.
Mmmm... Bring on tonight's "Double Agent!"
Posted by: jkeegan
Awesome..
Ok, how to post this without ruining stuff for the West coast (or TiVo) people that haven't seen it yet, and still not piss off Medieval Guy..
Eh, can't do both, so I'm playing it safe with spoiler tags. :)
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
In case anyone didn't catch it, they did finally clarify for us (mostly) that the Ethan Hawk we'd seen for the bulk of the episode was really Lennox. The one we saw talking with the CIA got his hand hurt from the handcuffs, and later talked with Sydney in the CIA. When she asked where he was going, he said Fiji - he'd never been there, and she (I forget her name) had grown up there. In the beginning of the episode, that's how she'd confirmed/(realized?) that she was with an imposter - she said "maybe after this we should go back to Fiji" and his response was "Yeah, that was great". So he lied (there was no "that" - they'd never been there), and she knew he was a double.
I say "mostly" because for all we know, this is still the doctor, and he figured out in the meantime how she'd caught him.
I thought it was interesting too that Sydney happened to know the woman. She even restated that at the end of the episode. It's like Sloan wanted to throw Sydney off kilter, by having someone she knows be the one to die like that. When Lennox was telling Sydney about how he was engaged and she was killed, it all seemed too nice a fit of a story for Sydney - almost custom tailored for her. That made me think he was the impostor.. But now I suppose the same effect could be achieved even if he was the real Lennox, because Sloane still decided to have the doctor replace Lennox, who was engaged.. Sloan carved a particularly Syndey-sympathetic story, it just happened to be true.
I loved how the episode started. Great episode overall, certainly eliminating any fears of the quality of the show going down.
..Jeff
Posted by: jkeegan
Oh yeah, forgot..
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Another hint that they'd rescued the real Lennox (and not a plant) was that they obtained all this intel on project helix. I'd want that kept pretty damned secret if I wanted Francie to actually gather intel, unless there was some really complex plan set in place later, which is unlikely. The fact that they learned about impostors at all (when we knew that Francie was in place) really tilted the scale towards that being Lennox. Now I just wonder why Sloan wouldn't anticipate them going in to get him... Damn, now I'm not sure again.
Plus, can we now actually assume that the occular scan wasn't really disinformation and that a scan of Francie would reveal she's an impostor?
..Jeff
Posted by: Rob Helmerichs
Why not just start a spoiler thread for this episode?
Sheesh, why do some people make things so difficult? :D
Posted by: jkeegan
quote:
Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Why not just start a spoiler thread for this episode?
Sheesh, why do some people make things so difficult? :D
Doh, missed that the title of the thread was episode specific. :(
Ok, started a new thread for the next episode.. (SPOILERS!!!!) :)
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