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TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php)
- DVD TiVo Units (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=41)
-- DVD+R/RW vs DVD-R/RW - Need Advice (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=108241)

Posted by tanstaafl on 03-25-2003 02:59 PM:

Question DVD+R/RW vs DVD-R/RW - Need Advice

OK, so I'm looking at DVD R/RW drives with a thought to converting the remainder of my VHS collection to DVD. Looking around, I notice that there seem to be two different formats of DVD drive out there; DVD+R/RW and DVD-R/RW.

What is the difference between these two formats? Is one more "compatible" than the other? Which one will work in my standard DVD player?

I notice that Sony has an all-in-one unit that covers both formats (which also comes in an external USB version) but they are a bit more expensive that units that are just one or the other.

Any advice or suggestions appreciated. TIA.

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Posted by stevel on 03-25-2003 03:08 PM:

Well, you'll get different explanations depending on whom you ask.

Both formats MAY work in your standard DVD player, but the "plus" format was designed specifically to be compatible with video DVD players whereas the "minus" format was designed more as a data format. An advantage of the "plus" format is that the rewriteable discs do not need "finalizing" and can be played on a normal DVD player immediately after recording. You can also edit titles and chapter marks and maintain player compatibility. The "minus" format can't do that.

The Sony drive is an excellent all-around drive (I have one), and is fast too, even at CD-R and RW. It also includes a good software bundle and can write to DVD-R at the new 4X speed.

If you want the "plus" side of the comparison, see the Format Comparison links at http://dvdplusrw.org/

For the record, I have a Sony DRU-500A and a Philips DVDR985 (standalone DVD+RW/R recorder) and like them a lot. I have not had problems playing discs on DVD players or PC DVD-ROM drives.

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Posted by grecorj on 03-25-2003 04:03 PM:

What Steve said.

Plus, you may want to check out http://www.dvdrhelp.com/

I bought a Sony VAIO desktop with a built-in version of the Sony DRU-500. Dual format flexability is important if you're going to be distributing those home movies to family members, all of whom probably have different DVD players.

A good source for blank media is http://www.meritline.com/ They even market a "sampler" pack of + and - media for Sony DRU-500 owners (not all media brands are created equal, so yes, you have to worry about that sometimes...).

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Posted by Mike Lang on 03-25-2003 04:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by grecorj

A good source for blank media is http://www.meritline.com/ They even market a "sampler" pack of + and - media for Sony DRU-500 owners (not all media brands are created equal, so yes, you have to worry about that sometimes...).


Another is http://www.shop4tech.com I'm using their house brand DVD-R discs (very inexpensive) with the Sony and have had no problems.

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Posted by IndyJones1023 on 03-25-2003 04:18 PM:

I have an HP DVD+R/+RW burner and have found great compatibility with the +R discs. They even play on my mom's PlayStation2. And, checking a disc is properly digittized using +RW discs is wonderful! I've probably saved over a dozen DVDs from coasterdom that way.

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Posted by bobcarn on 03-25-2003 04:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by IndyJones1023
I have an HP DVD+R/+RW burner and have found great compatibility with the +R discs. They even play on my mom's PlayStation2. And, checking a disc is properly digittized using +RW discs is wonderful! I've probably saved over a dozen DVDs from coasterdom that way.


That's what I do too. I burn a DVD onto the +RW media (which doesn't have as wide compatibility as the +R media when it comes to DVD players) first. After I've played it for a bit and am sure that it's the way I like it, I then just do a copy of it to +R media so it's permanent. I only have one DVD player that accepts the +RW media, so I do my testing with that one. Once it's copied to +R though, all my players take it.

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Posted by IndyJones1023 on 03-25-2003 05:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bobcarn
That's what I do too. I burn a DVD onto the +RW media (which doesn't have as wide compatibility as the +R media when it comes to DVD players) first. After I've played it for a bit and am sure that it's the way I like it, I then just do a copy of it to +R media so it's permanent. I only have one DVD player that accepts the +RW media, so I do my testing with that one. Once it's copied to +R though, all my players take it.


We're so much alike, Bob! Well, ummm, except. Oh, oops, wrong forum.

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Posted by Hoffer on 03-25-2003 05:48 PM:

Get the Sony drive that burns both - and +. I've had it for a couple months and it works great!

Posted by henryhank on 03-25-2003 07:14 PM:

The link above (http://dvdplusrw.org/pc/pccomparison.html) is a great comparison of +RW and -RW from the +RW side. Is there a similar page touting all the pluses of -RW over +RW? I want one of these (UMF) drives, but can't decide which format to go for? (I also want to archive lots of VHS tapes to DVD). Thanks.

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Posted by BattMan on 03-25-2003 08:50 PM:

<-- holds out for a consensus. Doesnt want another BetaMax.

Posted by stevel on 03-25-2003 09:01 PM:

Well, if you want a PC drive, the Sony plays both sides of the fence, so you can't really go wrong. I do note that future Windows support for Mt. Rainier, where the DVD drive operates as a read-write disk without any special preparation, is for DVD+RW only. (DVD-RW can't handle it.) More and more +RW drives are coming out, but there are also several dual-format drives.

Note that whichever you choose, you should be able to READ the discs on current and future DVD players and recorders.

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Posted by grecorj on 03-25-2003 09:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
I do note that future Windows support for Mt. Rainier, where the DVD drive operates as a read-write disk without any special preparation, is for DVD+RW only. (DVD-RW can't handle it.)


Steve, when is that standard suppossed to become....well...standard?

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Posted by Raj on 03-26-2003 12:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
Well, you'll get different explanations depending on whom you ask.

Both formats MAY work in your standard DVD player, but the "plus" format was designed specifically to be compatible with video DVD players whereas the "minus" format was designed more as a data format.


Steve, I respectfully disagree. The first ever recordable DVD format was DVD-R for authoring. This was used by the studios to produce proof discs. It's very expensive, but I believe it was compatible with nearly all DVD players. It also used a different wavelength laser than the DVD-R format we know, which is DVD-R general. DVD-R(W) (the minus format) was designed by the DVD Forum. This is, incidentally, why only DVD-RW drives can carry the official DVD logo. DVD-R discs work on nearly all DVD players, except a very few which probably won't even play CD-R's. DVD-RW on the other hand, was completely different. Many DVD players could not play DVD-RW, even though they played DVD-R.

A few companies (Primarily Sony and Philips), formed the DVDRW Alliance. Out of this was born DVD+RW (the plus format). DVD+RW was initially touted as "the compatible rewriteable format". This simply meant that DVD+RW was more compatible with set top players than its minus counterpart, DVD-RW. As a matter of fact, in the early stages, write once DVD+R wasn't even released yet, and drives would only write to $15 DVD+RW discs. The drives were sold by some of the companies as being able to upgrade to write DVD+R discs by means of a firmware upgrade. This never happened, due to technical limitations, and the threat of a class action suit forced Philips to recall DVD+RW drives and replace them with DVD+RW/+R drives.

Furthermore, I believe DVD+R/RW is better for data, since it incorporates defect management, and has been touted as more of a consumer product. (Professionals don't use DVD+R/W format).

Anyway, in actual experience, people have been having mixed results. On all my friends' DVD players, I have had 100% compatibility with DVD-R, when it's recorded on good, name brand media (Sony, TDK, Memorex). Some people reported having compatibility problems with DVD+R as well as DVD-R discs. It's known for a fact that DVD-RW doesn't work on very many players. DVD+RW is slightly more compatible, but it doesn't have as high a compatibility rate as the regular write once media.

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Posted by BattMan on 03-26-2003 12:41 AM:

Is there a chance of dual-layer home DVD-R or +Rs coming out? I want to back up my DVD collection.

Posted by stevel on 03-26-2003 01:16 AM:

That DVD-R/RW can carry the DVD logo and DVD+R/RW can't isn't particularly meaningful. What matters is real-world compatibility and features. And you're wrong about the firmware update at least in general. Some Philips recorders did have it. I know that some early recorders couldn't be upgraded to support DVD+R, but that's not an issue today.

DVD-R for Authoring is an entirely different beast from DVD-R for General Use. And what's with DVD-RAM being an "official" DVD Forum format, despite not being compatible with anything?

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Posted by Kablemodem on 03-26-2003 01:57 AM:

Is there a maximum number of optical drives you can have in a PC. I have a DVD-ROM and a CD-RW, but I was considering a Sony DRU-500AX. Do I have to remove one of my other drives first?

Posted by pendragn on 03-26-2003 05:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Kablemodem
Is there a maximum number of optical drives you can have in a PC. I have a DVD-ROM and a CD-RW, but I was considering a Sony DRU-500AX. Do I have to remove one of my other drives first?

As long as you have enough IDE connections, you should be fine. Your computer, or Windows doesn't have a hard set limit on how many optical, or removable drives it will support. I used to work with servers that served out CD and had 8 CD-ROM drives attached.

I've got a Pioneer 104 DVD-R drive and I've had no compatibility issues, and the -R media cheap. However, if I buy a second DVD burner, it'll be one that does +R and -R.

tk

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Posted by henryhank on 03-26-2003 01:13 PM:

Boy, you guys sure don't make it easy to decide on which format to select (and I don't want to spend the $$$$ for a combo drive). It's turning into a PC/Mac war.

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Posted by tanstaafl on 03-26-2003 03:09 PM:

Thanks for the info everyone... It looks like the more I research this the less obvious the choice becomes.

My main concern, as BattMan alluded to, is avoiding another VHS/Beta situation. It looks like if I am going to get a unit now I should spend the extra few bucks and pick up one of the multi-format units, probably the Sony. Oh well, I gotta do something with that tax refund anyway, don't I?

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Posted by Raj on 03-26-2003 05:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by stevel
That DVD-R/RW can carry the DVD logo and DVD+R/RW can't isn't particularly meaningful. What matters is real-world compatibility and features.


Again, as I said, people have been having mixed results. The compatibility with the write once discs is about even, but I prefer to stick to an official standard. That's just my preference.

quote:
And you're wrong about the firmware update at least in general. Some Philips recorders did have it. I know that some early recorders couldn't be upgraded to support DVD+R, but that's not an issue today.


According to DVDplusrw.org, set top recorders could have been firmware upgraded, but not PC drives. I was an early adopter of the DVD+RW standard, I bought a Philips DVD+RW through DELL. As much as I looked, and spoke to DELL and Philips, I could not get an update to go to DVD+R. Others on the DVDPlusRW.org had the same problem, and it was identified as a problem with the laser. With the threat of class action, Philips recalled the early non-OEM drives. I was stuck with mine, sold it on eBay and got a Pioneer DVD-RW drive. I have never looked back.

quote:
DVD-R for Authoring is an entirely different beast from DVD-R for General Use. And what's with DVD-RAM being an "official" DVD Forum format, despite not being compatible with anything?


What do you mean it's not compatible with anything? There are drives and set top players that will read it. Just check out the compatibility list at www.dvdrhelp.com.

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I'm noticing more and more how my life is beginning to mirror Raj's....YIKES!! --disco

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