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>>> Help Troubleshooting HMO for a buddy <<<

 
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HTXpertGuy is offline Old Post 06-29-2003 07:17 AM
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HTXpertGuy
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Registered: May 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 28

Question Help Troubleshooting HMO for a buddy

I'm trying to troubleshoot long distance for a buddy of mine that has a Sony TiVo with HMO enabled. Here is what he described:

The error reads "can't connect or unable to find gateway/router".

He is using a wired CAT 5 network with a Linksys USB 2.0 adaptor to connect to his TiVo.

The Linksys adaptor shows up in the TiVo network setting with a "MAC" address as specified. So, we know it sees the adaptor just fine.

He has tried 3 different CAT 5 cables to connect, so not the problem there.

His router config though may be the source. He has a Linksys 8 port 10/100 router (only). All of his computers, both destop and laptop with a 10/100 network card can see the router just fine and the lights show up on the front of it saying they are connected. However, his TiVo does not.

In the network setting on the TiVo, he did not use the "automatic" network detection (DHCP), but instead specified his own IP address. He has it configured so the IP address has the first 3 numbers the same as his router and he made up the last (4th) number. So, it matches the router as specified. His router is on the same 3 first numbers, but then "79" for the last (4th) number set.

His TiVo software on his PC is running, he has "published" items and confirmed in the software and the TiVo server is running and showing up in the taskbar as active. According to the TiVo software, when you bring up the "server properties" > Network Identification area, it shows his IP address being the same 3 numbers as his router and "79" for the last 4th set of numbers. So, this means he assigned a unique IP to his TiVo hardware and then told the TiVo he had a router IP with the same 3 numbers and "79" for the last 4th set of numbers as required.

He has reset both his TiVo and his hardware Linksys Router, same thing.

All firewalls are disabled to test.


Any advice or suggestions? It seems he has done everything right from what was said, but since I can't see it in person it's hard to tell. Can someone tell me what your routers and network settings are set to on your TiVos and PCs so I can see if anything may help him or not. I've tried and can't figure this one out.

Thanks.

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VinceA is offline Old Post 06-29-2003 03:34 PM
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VinceA
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Posts: 576

Without a 'link' light on the router it sounds like there's no complete connection between the router & TiVo. Has he tried using a different port on the router for the TiVo (just in case that particular port is 'dead')? Is there anything in the Linksys setup (don't know since I've got an SMC router here) for the ports that allows you to define if they're on, off, crossed over, straight through, etc? Has he tried the USB Ethernet adapter on another machine to make sure it's completely functional (since the TiVo might be able to get its MAC address but still not be able to send/receive data with it)?

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Want1394 is offline Old Post 06-29-2003 10:53 PM
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Want1394
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 3135

Vince gave you the correct answer - no ethernet/electrical connection. The link light is the key. So plug the same cable from the router into a computer - if the link light comes on, the cable and router port are just fine, and the problem must be in the USB adapter or the ethernet cable isn's seating in it well.

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HTXpertGuy is offline Old Post 06-30-2003 01:42 AM
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HTXpertGuy
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Registered: May 2002
Location: IL
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VinceA:

Thanks for the advice, I overlooked some of that in my haste to help him. Here is the update....

I did what you said and had him test the Linksys USB200M on his network server instead of using his network card. In order to get it to work on Windows XP, he had to install drivers from the included CD. Only then, would XP recongize the adaptor. Then, I had him use the same cable that he used on his TiVo connection. When all those connections were made on his home server PC, EVERYTHING worked just fine. He was able to bypass his PCI 10/100 card and run the server off the USB200M adaptor just fine using it and the same TiVo cable.

So, we now know both the adaptor AND cable are just fine.

That leaves us with the only possibility in my opinion that since XP required drivers to recongize the USB adaptor that TiVo simply can't use it. Despite it showing the MAC address and the USB200M being listed as "reported to work" on the TiVo web site. I truly don't think TiVo can use the adaptor since there must be some sort of driver issue there. It's one of the only reasons I can think of since the "link/act" indicator light doesn't show up on the router when used on the TiVo and DOES show up when the USB200M is used on the XP PC with the required drivers.

What's your thoughts on this now? Am I still missing something here? It has to be the TiVo causing the problem in my opinion since everything tested OK. For some reason the required drivers on the TiVo must not be there or something. What adaptor should I tell him to use since it doesn't appear this one will work on his TiVo?

Thanks for the help.

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pkscout is offline Old Post 06-30-2003 03:05 AM
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pkscout
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Durham, NC
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I'm not sure a USB2.0 device will work. First, not all TiVo Series2s have USB2, and, AFAIK, none of them have drivers for USB2 devices. You might want to take a look at the TiVo recommended adaptors page to verify, but I didn't see the adaptor you mentioned there. You might want to return it and get the USB1.1 version (which should be the USB100TX).

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HTXpertGuy is offline Old Post 06-30-2003 03:17 AM
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HTXpertGuy
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Registered: May 2002
Location: IL
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pkscout:

Actually, if you read my last post, you will find I did mention that it was listed as a "reported" working model on the TiVo web site. I appreciate the help, but that's not it.

Check out:

http://customersupport.tivo.com/tiv...lic/tv2006.htm?

As you can see, the Linksys USB200M is mentioned as reported to work.

Also, it wouldn't matter if it was USB 2.0 or not because it's backward compatible with 1.1 spec.

That's why I was trying to find out if anyone else uses this model of USB adaptor with their TiVo HMO and also what model they have they know works. It's a wired adaptor, so I'm only interested in wired models.

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HTXpertGuy is offline Old Post 06-30-2003 03:24 AM
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HTXpertGuy
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Registered: May 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 28

Guess what?

I thought I'd give it a shot and call the Sony tech support about this (it's a Sony TiVo) and they had no clues at all. You won't believe this, I was bumped to a "high" level tech and he came back and told me they "read the TiVo forum and saw a recent post about the same problem and suggest I use a different adaptor." I said "yes I know, that is me that posted the problem there and I was hoping for more than just reading it and guessing from a forum since it's of no real tech help to me." They just said sorry but basically had no clue what to do to help.

So, thanks guys to everyone that's helping here because no one else knows including their own staff. Now that's funny. Just wanted to say it's appreciated because we are now our own tech support for each other it would seem, or at least for HMO.

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Dennis Wilkinson is offline Old Post 06-30-2003 05:00 AM
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Dennis Wilkinson
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Could be a stupid question, but the only cable between the router and the USB adapter is the patch cable, right? He's not plugging into in-wall premise wiring, is he?

If so, it could be that the wire in the wall is faulty but that his patch cord is fine, if there is premise wiring to take into consideration.

These are the kinds of things that make debugging over the phone so much, er, fun.

Still sounds more electrical than driver-related to me, especially since the TiVo recognizes the adapter well enough to grok its MAC address and that other people have reported success with that adapter.

Another thing he could try, and that worked with some adapters when the broadband stuff was completely unsupported, was to get the adpater configured the way you wanted it when connected to a PC, then plug it into the TiVo.

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HTXpertGuy is offline Old Post 06-30-2003 06:19 AM
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HTXpertGuy
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Dennis:

Thanks for the reply, you are correct in troubleshooting long distance can be a problem.

Also you are correct in that he is plugging the patch cable into a CAT wall jack (i.e. premise wiring). However, I thought of this alread and had him test it this afternoon. I told him to take his laptop downstairs where his TiVo and CAT jacks are located and try each CAT jack outlet with the laptop computer and the same USB adaptor. If it was able to see the router OK, then we could rule out the jack wiring, USB adaptor and patch cable. Well, it DID WORK just fine using this method. The router saw all of his cat jacks just fine, with the same USB adaptor and patch cable.

So, we now know that:

A: All the CAT jacks work just fine.

B: The USB adaptor works just fine on both a desktop and laptop PC running Windows XP and Windows 98SE.

C: The patch cable works just fine.

Still, when he plugs in the USB200M adaptor to his TiVo, it will NOT work. This would make sense because it sees the adaptor with the MAC address, but for some reason the drivers or something in the TiVo software is having trouble seeing it.

Also, I've since learned from talking with tech support that those USB adaptors listed on the TiVo web site as "reported to work" are not offically supported in the software (yet). Also, tech support told me that certain models of series two TiVos may work with it and not others. For example, his unit begin with a "110" number and is a Sony 3000. It may NOT work with this unit, but may work with either a different Sony 3000 model not beginning with 110 or a TiVo brand instead of a Sony.

In short, I still think his problems lie with the TiVo unit itself since we know and have tested everything else in the chain. Also, since tech support reported this to me, I now understand it may be hit and miss for certain people as to what works and doesn't with their TiVo service number, when made, etc. The only adaptor they guarantee works OK is the "Linksys USB100TX", so I told my buddy to try and locate one of these models and try it then.

Any other thoughts on this now? Thanks.

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pkscout is offline Old Post 06-30-2003 07:06 PM
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pkscout
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1031

Yes, there is a pretty substantial difference between "reported to work" and "supported." Reported to work just means somebody got lucky and it worked for them on their particular hardware. Supported means that it has been heavily tested and should work with any Series2 (Sony, TiVo branded, or otherwise - well, expcet maybe the DirecTV TiVos, since they don't have the HMO option and may not have the USB support either).

I think getting a supported adaptor will be the easiest thing at this point, and cheaper if you take into account all the time that has already been spent (and more that might be spent) trying to get an unsupported solution to work.

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SteakMan is offline Old Post 07-02-2003 11:38 AM
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SteakMan
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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 765

I bet that if we had enough data to plot we would see that the USB2 adapters are only working on TiVo's with USB2 ports. The standard is backwards compatible, but maybe the USB1 ports are not "compliant".

The lack of a link light on the router means that the adapter is not responding to it, so the adapter must not be seeing what it hopes to see on the TiVo.

And of course, as unlikely as it is, it is also possible that some USB200M adapters will work and some won't depending on manufacturing quality. It might not be getting enough juice from the port.

The joys of troubleshooting

Let us know how it goes, I was planning on getting a USB2 adapter for my soon to arrive HDVR2 myself.

-SteakMan-

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TiVoOpsMgr is offline Old Post 07-04-2003 07:27 AM
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Without getting into specifics, we have seen instances where two identical adapters (same exact model number) have different behaviors, due to small changes in chipset revisions over time. Is it possible to borrow a different adapter?

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HTXpertGuy is offline Old Post 07-09-2003 05:44 AM
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HTXpertGuy
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Thumbs up Problem Solved

OK, during the past week or so during the holiday, we finally got the Sony TiVo working. It was difficult doing it long distance, but here's the bottom line.

Facts:

1. We knew the Linksys adaptor would work with both a computer laptop and desktop on both Windows XP and Windows 98SE.

2. We knew the jacks and patch cables were working OK in the room where the TiVo is located.

3. Firewalls were disabled for testing and the router wasn't showing a connection between the TiVo.

4. TiVo tech support had no clue and suggested we get a Linksys USB100TX since it was "offically supported".

Update:

I had my friend purchase another Sony series 2 TiVo from Goodguys electronics, since I was most certain the cause was the unit itself. Plus, he wanted another unit anyway to share shows between the units. This led to us being able to check both against various combinations of hardware and settings.

The new unit he had was manufactured two months after the one we were having trouble with.

Upon connecting the USB100TX to the Sony unit that was giving us problems, it worked from the start. Bingo! Linksys router light came on and we were up and running just fine 100%.

We then tried the USB 2.0 adaptor that didn't work on the one unit in the NEW unit. Well, guess what, it did! The exact same adaptor worked ok on the new Sony TiVo.

I knew it wasn't the adaptor or the USB connectors on the TiVo that was the issue since they are backwards compatible. What remains unclear is what combination of the USB 2.0 adaptor and Sony unit made it have problems. It could lie with the chipset/version of the USB 2.0 adaptor just like "TivoOpsMgr" mentioned below. Also, it may be the USB ports on the unit he had trouble with working with a certain chip set.

The bottom line is both adaptors work and which one will or won't work for your model seems to depend upon when the Sony TiVo unit was made AND the Linksys USB 2.0 adaptor chip set.

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