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>>> Bac news about AAC support <<<

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iDriveX is offline Old Post 10-23-2003 12:03 PM
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iDriveX
Neo-Trek Lover

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 130

Here's my manifesto...

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread....&postid=1657303

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mattman is offline Old Post 10-24-2003 06:42 AM
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mattman
Deep In The Mattcave

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 164

quote:
Originally posted by LagunaSol
Hmm, I can't imagine an AAC cross-encoded to MP3 can sound as good as the original AAC. Maybe "good," but definitely not "as good." I'd at least hold on to those original files somewhere. Apple won't let you download them again when you decide the MP3 versions aren't so hot after all...


I can't argue to quality other than to say that the one song I have purchased from ITMS and converted sounded equivalent to me, but I will admit I'm not an audiophile and there certainly could be loss.

For my purposes, it was both "good" and "as good", but YMMV.

Matt

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kevinv is offline Old Post 10-26-2003 03:34 AM
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kevinv
Member

Registered: Nov 2002
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Posts: 31

Most likely the problems with adding AAC to the TiVo are not technical in nature, they are probably legal (i.e. Apple won't license TiVo to play AAC's. I don't think Apple is singling out TiVo for this treatment.)

Apple is probably delaying this thinking that they will be canabalizing iPod sales if they allow other devices to play AAC. Of course they maybe canabalizing Music Store sales by not licensing others for AAC (even though I own an iPod, lack of support for other devices is one reason I'm holding off buying from iTMS -- I'll just keep encoding my MP3s so they work on lots of devices.) But the profit margin on an iPod is higher (in the short term at least) than the profit on sales in iTMS....

Personally, since the TiVo doesn't really have a lot of the capabilities of another computer I don't think it should need to be authorized like one. I'd rather see it treated as a playing device like an iPod.

Oh and I still want Ogg support in TiVo. No reason it can't be supported already, no legal restrictions for it.

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LagunaSol is offline Old Post 10-26-2003 04:42 AM
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LagunaSol
New Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
Posts: 14

Actually, AAC is not Apple's property to license. Their version of DRM used on tracks from the iTunes Music Store probably is, but anyone can license AAC for use on their devices. Of course in doing so they probably don't get a big kickback and sly wink like they would from Microsoft by licensing WMA...

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bedelman is offline Old Post 10-26-2003 07:21 AM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

Since IloveMP3 is open source and it looks like it will convert iTMS AAC files to MP3 when it's run from an "authorized" machine and it also looks like it can convert Ogg files to MP3 --

Why couldn't you use something like IloveMP3 in combination with TiVo Desktop to send MP3 streams over to the TiVo?

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LagunaSol is offline Old Post 10-26-2003 11:46 AM
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LagunaSol
New Member

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IloveMP3 doesn't convert AAC to MP3 "on the fly," it reencodes the file and makes a duplicate. As kupe mentioned, you'd now have 2 copies of every song on your hard drive (not to mention all the conversion time (and LAME is SLOW!!!) just so you could play them over TiVo. That's no good. That's not how the so-called "digital hub" is supposed to work. Also there has to be some loss of quality going from one encoding scheme to another. We need native AAC playback on TiVo. They said they were working on it. So it's not a matter of why or how, but when????

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pkscout is offline Old Post 10-27-2003 03:25 AM
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pkscout
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1031

Yea, LAME is *really* slow. I downloaded iLoveMP3 to go ahead and convert my AAC files to MP3, and it looks like LAME encodes MP3 in realtime (meaning a 5 minute song takes 5 minutes to encode).

As for why TiVo doesn't "do" AAC, there are two things. First, there's the basic AAC support itself. And if you want to play protected AAC files from the iTunes Music Store, then TiVo also has to understand FairPlay (Apple's DRM). Currently Apple hasn't licensed FairPlay to anyone, so the only things you cal use to play AAC files (without converting them) from the iTunes Music Store is iTunes (for Mac or Windows) or the iPod.

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bedelman is offline Old Post 10-27-2003 06:17 AM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

I think iLoveMP3 actually converts the AAC to AIFF (which is what a CD uses) and then back down to MP3.

As far as loss of quality goes, I don't see why this would be any difference from creating an audio CD and then re-ripping it.

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1 Pioneer DVR-810H
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1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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LagunaSol is offline Old Post 10-27-2003 07:13 AM
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LagunaSol
New Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
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It wouldn't be any different than creating an audio CD and re-ripping it, but when you do that you lose quality too. Like generational loss on a copy machine, in a way. When you encode the original source in AAC, its compression scheme shrinks the size of the music file down by removing data (obviously). By creating a CD from that AAC file you don't gain any of that lost data back, you just put it in a format you can play on a regular CD player. Then you go from there to MP3, which has its own compression scheme, different from AAC, so it subsequently shrinks the file by removing additional data (in a different way than AAC). So the resulting MP3 does not have the same level of quality as the original AAC file. Going from format to format to format like that "dirties the water" as it were.

Some people may say they can't tell a difference in quality, but the loss in quality is definitely there.

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Zathrus is offline Old Post 10-27-2003 10:40 PM
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Zathrus
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 408

quote:
Originally posted by pkscout
Yea, LAME is *really* slow. I downloaded iLoveMP3 to go ahead and convert my AAC files to MP3, and it looks like LAME encodes MP3 in realtime (meaning a 5 minute song takes 5 minutes to encode).


Then either your computer is abysmally slow or something was compiled wrong with lame. I have an Athlon 1.4 that can do encoding in ~14x realtime, or rip/encode in ~7x realtime using lame. My AthlonXP 2200 does quite a bit better, again using lame.

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LagunaSol is offline Old Post 10-28-2003 03:23 AM
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LagunaSol
New Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
Posts: 14

Well, LAME must be optimized for Athon because on my dual 867-mhz G4, I get about 1.2X speed (rip/encode). I've heard PC users gripe about LAME encoding speed too.

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>>> Bac news about AAC support <<<

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