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>>> DirecTV support of DVR's is so laughable, but it's just not funny. <<<

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geneb11 is offline Old Post 11-22-2003 06:07 PM
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geneb11
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Hey Blankman, At least he is keeping this thread at the top where you wanted it. I have to agree with you. Their not any better over at Dishnetwork either. When I had my Dishplayer I was on the phone every week. Each time that I called in I had to repeat every little thing. What a pain in the ass that was.

They say they document it,but it's only bit's and pieces that's where e-mail's would come in nice. So far the only people that I had to talk to was Hughes about the sound dropouts we all know the answer to that. Of course Directv told me that I had to talk to them because Directv didn't know anything.

I remember last year when I was lurking here that Tivo did such a better job in letting people know what was wrong and now it's hush hush. Directv needs to get on the ball.

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SpankWare is offline Old Post 11-22-2003 10:34 PM
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SpankWare
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Ok blankman, on your request (and without compensation) I have discussed this issue with DirecTV. I am told that this is done to prevent screen burn in. I am also told this is done on many different types of receivers as well. I have 4 different platforms in my house (though not all connected, so it took some work) and each of my units does the same or some similar method to prevent burn in. The entire phone process took maybe 10 minutes. I did not document my time testing other receivers as it took course over the night.

The entire process was fairly painless when calling in. I did received some initial BS support stuff at first level, and quickly bypassed that to get to more knowledgeable support. The "problem" you have described is a feature, and as some have posted it is an important feature for them. (Burn in can be a bad thing.) I just wish the DirecTV DVR units had a screen saver function much like my Ultimate TV and other non DVR receivers had.

Did I answer your support question?

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jillker is offline Old Post 11-22-2003 10:54 PM
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a few things are clear:

this is not a problem, this is a way DirecTv has chosen to have the programming work

this is not a dvr issue, this is an issue that occurs for non dvr models too

directv email does not provide technical support so to continue to email them technical questions is a lesson in self punishment

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bidger is offline Old Post 11-22-2003 11:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by appleye1
(I'll save you the trouble Blankman. )

Blankman's complaint is not that the banner clears. It's that when a new song comes on the banner does not reappear.

Well, my point is that IF the banner remains on screen for very long, which would mean constant refreshing of song/artist information, then screen burn in is what can happen on RPTVs vulnerable to this. I then related my experience having had it happen to me. It's consistent w/ the reasons SpankWare relates as DirecTV's reason for clearing the banner, i.e.- removing it from the screen. Obviously doing that means no new song/artist info. It also means decreasing screen burn-in. My 3rd gen. RCA receiver used a screensaver, but that would vanish after awhile. Again, in an effort to prevent burn-in.

You seem to want to portray me as clueless, appleye 1, but that's not so. The reason I replied to this thread was because I have personal experience as to what the channel banner on MusicChoice can do to an RPTV and so does DirecTV. The complaint by BlankMan showed me that he had no clue as to why the banner disappears. His TV may not be at risk, but others' are. He painted a broad stroke as to the thread topic and when I actually read his post I found it be to be frivolous. If you want a DirecTV receiver which keeps the info on screen all the time, most S1 & S2 DirecTV receivers can do this.

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Last edited by bidger on 11-23-2003 at 12:07 AM

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drew2k is offline Old Post 11-23-2003 12:02 AM
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Blankman, all due respect, but I think you started this off wrong with DirecTV. You want DirecTV to acknowledge that there is something wrong with the way track information is presented, when in actuality it's working exactly as designed. DirecTV was also wrong, in not responding properly to explain how the track info works, and also not realizing what you want is a feature change. I bet if they had recognized that, and told you they were forwarding your email to the suggestions department, you would have been happy.

I think this thread should be in the Suggestion forum, as what you're really looking for is a feature enhancement that would allow the track info to pop-up with each new song, stay on-screen for a short time, and then disappear again. I'd add to that suggestion that when the track info pops-up, it should randomly be in a new location on screen, to prevent burn-in.

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hookbill is offline Old Post 11-23-2003 01:15 AM
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hookbill
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quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
I think this thread should be in the Suggestion forum, as what you're really looking for is a feature enhancement that would allow the track info to pop-up with each new song, stay on-screen for a short time, and then disappear again. I'd add to that suggestion that when the track info pops-up, it should randomly be in a new location on screen, to prevent burn-in.


Sorry, drew2k I got to disagree I think this is the appropriate forum for this discussion and I got to throw my support for BlankMan. I think ever since DTV took over the DVR's service has gone down hill. My big complaint is about loosing channels. A reboot brings them back but you could miss your favorite shows as a result of this. It's happened to me twice. Several people have reported to DTV's Customer Service only to get canned responses. I'm a Pegasus customer so I don't have to tell you that I don't even want to try to go through them. I've found the best support has been through this forum, particularly when TiVo Pony and TiVo Bill were still running the show.

I think BlankMan isn't just talking about the lost of the song id's, he is talking about a variety of issues. Some are more serious then others, but the point is we don't get response.

As far as the e-mail to Direct TV I agree with BlankMan that would probably be the ideal way to resolve matters, but let's face it their e-mail is really non existant. Talking to DTV reps does not seem to help either on certain issues. Point I'm trying to make is we use to have an access to someone who worked for TiVo in this forum who could help us and do something about our problems or concerns. We don't have that any longer. That is what I miss. I know for a fact BlankMan and I have both PM'd TiVoOpsMgr about the missing channels issue and we have received no response. His last response was he had nothing new to report as of November 5 and he would check with DTV and get back to us tomorrow. It is now November 22. We haven't heard anything from him yet.

It just seems that DTV took this over without really having the technical foresight to know what they were dealing with. I hope they prove me wrong but so far, I'm not impressed.

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 11-25-2003 10:51 PM
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BlankMan
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quote:
Originally posted by SpankWare
As for my defense of DirecTV, that's simple. I think there are many people here and elsewhere who blame DirecTV for a lot of things for one reason or another without considering for a moment that they are not the one's at fault.
Opp! Yeah! Dogoneit! I musta screwed up that last software patch!

quote:
Originally posted by appleye1
(I'll save you the trouble Blankman. )
Thanks. I know I've said this a number of times.

quote:
Originally posted by bsnelson
I guess I don't understand how the OP thinks it should work, given that the reason it goes away is to prevent burn-in.Brad
The display comes on for a while, displays the title and artist then blanks after 15-20 seconds as a lot of people have pointed out, that is fine. Just as long as it comes on at the start of the next new song and does it again, then blanks after 15-20. I do not have a problem with that, the problem I have is that it stops coming on at all.

But the more I think of this the more I think that is on purpose because even though the text changes, the border could burn in, so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. I'm not viewing this on the TV, in fact the HDTV that is connected is turned off, so I'm not worried about burn in. but I am viewing it when this occurs, enough said.

geneb11 yeah I know, for that I' grateful, even if I have to listen to it.

quote:
Originally posted by SpankWare
Did I answer your support question?
Not really. Are they saying that the total blanking, never showing the title and artist again until there is some user interaction is normal, and they are not referring to the 15-20 second blanking once into the song, that is normal? Everyone, including me, knows the blanking 15-20 seconds into the song is normal to prevent burn in.

And, then, how hard would it have been for them to send me that simple, four line explanation instead of telling me to reboot my DTiVo and call them and yada yada yada?

And how do we know you really called in and aren't just reiterating what's been said as to how it's thought to work?

quote:
Originally posted by hookbill
I think BlankMan isn't just talking about the lost of the song id's, he is talking about a variety of issues. Some are more serious then others, but the point is we don't get response.
Yes. I started this thread off as a medium to post issues with the poor support us DTiVo's users have been getting since DirecTV took over the support from TiVo. It has nothing to do with a feature enhancement, as I stated early on in the thread (I think) I want this thread to be a warning to potentially new DirecTV DVR users. A lot of people find their way here when researching whether or not to buy a DirecTV DVR, I wan them to know not to expect to get any decent support from DirecTV.

Unfortunately when I started this thread that happened to be the issue I most recently emailed DirecTV, I can see now that was a poor choice because this thread quickly became centered around that problem and not the fact that DirecTV's support is poor. I should have used the Loss of (Favorite) Channels on going problem. At least then no one could side with DirecTV and tell me that I SHOULD call in so that they could fix it over the phone.

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Last edited by BlankMan on 11-25-2003 at 10:58 PM

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SpankWare is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 12:47 AM
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SpankWare
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quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
Not really. Are they saying that the total blanking, never showing the title and artist again until there is some user interaction is normal, and they are not referring to the 15-20 second blanking once into the song, that is normal? Everyone, including me, knows the blanking 15-20 seconds into the song is normal to prevent burn in.

And, then, how hard would it have been for them to send me that simple, four line explanation instead of telling me to reboot my DTiVo and call them and yada yada yada?

And how do we know you really called in and aren't just reiterating what's been said as to how it's thought to work?




As I stated, the "problem" you described is a feature. This means that after showing you song titles for X amount of time, the screen will blank and not show any more titles until there is user interaction. Also as stated before, this is to prevent burn in. I don't think I can be much more clear than that. I was very specific in asking about a total blanking and required user interaction. Again, this is by design and is the case with most receivers. I tested 4 different receiver types and each had similar features, whether it be blanking the screen or starting a screen saver.

As for why you didn't get this explanation via email, I would direct you to look at your email folder containing past email queries with DirecTV. It should have been apparent that the email you received should have been expected. This would be based on your own documentation of DirecTV email support. I'm less interested in why you got the canned response and more interested in why you even bothered to send the email when you already knew the response you would get.

If you want to chose to not believe I called, then that is your prerogative. I did call and I did get service. I stated previously that it would be much easier to take the time to make the phone call, and it worked as I expected. If you wish to disagree, then please by my guest to do so. I'm going to stick with calling in for tech support and getting the answers I desire promptly.

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stevel is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 12:47 AM
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stevel
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I haven't read through all this thread, but it's pretty obvious to me that DirecTV's e-mail support is not done by the same people who do phone support. It looks as if e-mail support is outsourced (to India, probably), and the people there have scripts to follow - if your problem isn't on the script, then they shunt you to phone support.

DirecTV's phone support is not too bad, if you push back a little. The first-line support also has scripts and will give you the same nonsense about unplug receiver and then contact the manufacturer to have the box replaced. But at least those I have spoken with are willing to pass you on to the TiVo specialists. These people are slightly better, but still seem relatively clueless about TiVo. In particular, the agent I spoke with yesterday did not know which company authorizes software updates for TiVo.

Earlier in the thread was a discussion of e-mail support. I do tech support (for DEC, um, Compaq, um Intel) and for the more technical problems, e-mail support (or a dedicated web site where you enter the problem and attach files) beats phone hands down. It's nearly impossible to provide the level and amount of detail needed to properly describe a typical problem over the phone, and as stated earlier, written information is much easier to accurately record and pass on.

It sounds to me as if DirecTV offers e-mail support mostly as an afterthought, and I can't see that it's really worth it for them, especially given the cookie-cutter responses.

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 01:58 AM
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BlankMan
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quote:
Originally posted by SpankWare
As I stated, the "problem" you described is a feature.
Ok fine, I've relegated myself to believe that it is done by design. But you took me off on a tangent that was not purpose of this thread. As I've stated a number of times now the purpose, of this thread was to show how poor DirecTV's support model is, for what ever reason, not to solve the problem in the correspondence that I used as an example. By the fact that you were able to call and get a reasonable answer and by the fact that they could have easily replied to my email with that answer but instead told me to "Reboot my TiVo" to fix the problem, only goes to show my point. That was the objective here.

And now, that other problem I'm having, and Steve is having, and many other people are having with channels being lost, you still think that phone support as opposed to very detailed written problem statements is the best way to go about getting it corrected? Well you can go the phone route, I still believe hardcopy is the best route to go.

Thank you Steve, being able to provide the level of detail needed to solve technical issues is a given in a written email. Having a call screener or even a technical person transcribe what they think they understand the problem to be into a call log is prone to be problematic in and of itself.

DEC eh? I see the Nashua connection now.

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Last edited by BlankMan on 11-26-2003 at 02:31 AM

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SpankWare is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 02:49 AM
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SpankWare
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quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
Ok fine, I've relegated myself to believe that it is done by design. But you took me off on a tangent that was not purpose of this thread. As I've stated a number of times now the purpose, of this thread was to show how poor DirecTV's support model is, for what ever reason, not to solve the problem in the correspondence that I used as an example. By the fact that you were able to call and get a reasonable answer and by the fact that they could have easily replied to my email with that answer but instead told me to "Reboot my TiVo" to fix the problem, only goes to show my point. That was the objective here.



But this thread did nothing to show how "poor" the DirecTV support model is. All it did was show that DirecTV has a customer that, for whatever reason, continues to follow a support method that the customer has themselves documented is already ineffective. I don't think anybody has questioned the fact that DirecTV's email support is lacking, at least not me. But you can't say the entire support structure is failing just because you can't get the support you want when you follow a single avenue, the same avenue that you already know has proven ineffective for you in the past.

If anything, I think I proved the support model does work, or at the very least in did in this case. I took the time to make the call, and got the issue resolved immediately. You never did answer my previous question. Have you received a response from DirecTV on your rather rude complaint to the initial response from DirecTV? If so, what was it? Did the email method you chose lead to problem resolution in the 10 minutes it took me? You said previously that it only takes a couple of minutes to fire off an email. Would I be safe in assuming that you're going the email route because you just want to get the problem sent off and not deal with the issue while somebody else works on the solution? If you have a problem, you should be actively involved in getting resolution. This is the very reason why my 10 minute phone call was far more effective than your email. I took the time (and little time at that) to get resolution It probably took me less time to get an answer than for you to compose your email and it to route it's way to a DirecTV mailbox.

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 03:38 AM
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BlankMan
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SpankWare Look, you have your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change my mind nor my modus operandi, so let's just drop it. I've noticed you tend to stick up for DirecTV in quite a number of threads, if you are happy with DirecTV's service, fine, I am not. I expect to get competent support from DirecTV via email as long as they offer that as an option. If I want to beat my head against the wall in your mind in the process, that's my decision, isn't it? So I will continue to try, and if DirecTV ever wakes up and starts providing a higher level of support you all can thank me. In the meantime, if I choose to spend my time doing so that is my prerogative. And don't use the excuse that you'll have to hear it, you do not have to click on this thread, you do not have to reply to it. In fact, you can put me on your ignore list if you like. Please.

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lander215 is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 03:51 AM
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lander215
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I'm curious. Are you also upset that when a new TV show comes on DirecTV, that the channel banner doesn't pop up to tell you the name of the show?

It's basically the same issue isn't it?

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MixMasterMark is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 04:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
Oh I agree, I'm setting myself up, I'm trying to leverage this medium to get this issue way out in the open so it becomes common knowledge of the general public. If public opinion starts to form outside of this community that DirecTV support is useless, I can't see how they cannot stand up and take notice. That type reputation regardless of their J.D. Powers award will affect sales.

Why do I feeling that the general consensus is to just roll over and take it?

All hail the self-righteous BlankMan. The general consensus is that you need to get a life. As a member of the "general public", I'm always amazed at the children who feel the need to preach that they're spreading their venom in my name. Please don't presume to speak for me, EVER.

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SpankWare is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 04:27 AM
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SpankWare
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quote:
Originally posted by BlankMan
SpankWare Look, you have your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change my mind nor my modus operandi, so let's just drop it. I've noticed you tend to stick up for DirecTV in quite a number of threads, if you are happy with DirecTV's service, fine, I am not. I expect to get competent support from DirecTV via email as long as they offer that as an option. If I want to beat my head against the wall in your mind in the process, that's my decision, isn't it? So I will continue to try, and if DirecTV ever wakes up and starts providing a higher level of support you all can thank me. In the meantime, if I choose to spend my time doing so that is my prerogative. And don't use the excuse that you'll have to hear it, you do not have to click on this thread, you do not have to reply to it. In fact, you can put me on your ignore list if you like. Please.


And I don't care if you have your opinion. You keep bringing it up, but I don't see what my defense of DirecTV has to do with anything. I only commented on your post because I found the whole thing ridiculous. You were upset because you got a generic answer to your problem, but that happens to EVERYBODY. It's how DirecTV does technical support and there's nothing wrong with it. The only problem is you chose email as the method of dialog. So rather than being able to shut the CSR up in mid sentence, you had to wait and get the whole reboot spiel via email.

You've made several references here to the quality of DirecTV support. Obviously that opinion will differ from person to person, but I think it's wrong to say that support in general is flawed when you refuse to take steps to get better technical support. And no, despite what you may think, sending rude and inflammatory emails back to tech support isn't likely going to change the manner with which DirecTV handles support requests via email.

As long as you make broad generalizations about the quality of service based on a very narrow source of information, expect somebody to call you out on it.

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crusador is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 04:38 AM
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crusador
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How many directv support people do you actually know? Do you know what resources and training they have? To directly blame the support for failling to answer a question that is not even a problem is petty.

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MixMasterMark is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 04:50 AM
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Do like all the rest of the kiddies do and threaten to switch to Dish. That'll get their attention. Not.

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 05:01 AM
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BlankMan
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quote:
Originally posted by SpankWare
As long as you make broad generalizations about the quality of service based on a very narrow source of information, expect somebody to call you out on it.
Yep, and I think that is my right, something about free speech.

I'll say again, DirecTV offers support via email, therefore I expect that support to be competent and be able to solve the problem.

Now, I've looked through this thread and quite a few posts seem to agree with me, I mean someone flat out saying (other then me) "we all know DirecTV support sucks" could be viewed as pretty much agreeing. Not to mention, if I were to do a search of TC I'll bet I could come up with a very long list of posts all agreeing with that sentiment.

So, there are other people who have posted in this thread yet your responses have always singled out mine, you are not debating the issue, otherwise you would have responded to all who trash your precious DirecTV Support infrastructure not just me, you are trolling for a response.

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and ah, a, A55

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BlankMan is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 05:09 AM
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BlankMan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: WI
Posts: 1438

quote:
Originally posted by crusador
How many directv support people do you actually know? Do you know what resources and training they have? To directly blame the support for failling to answer a question that is not even a problem is petty.
It is not "a" question, it is many questions, it is not me, it is many customers, I just happen to be crusading at the moment. If you would have read the whole thread you would see that I resigned myself to the fact that is how it operates and DirecTV could have ended it and told me so in the reply. Instead they told me to "Reboot it". Now, if it's not a problem, then how can rebooting it fix it? See the point yet?

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and ah, a, A55

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MixMasterMark is offline Old Post 11-26-2003 05:15 AM
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MixMasterMark
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Registered: Mar 2002
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Posts: 79

Yep. You are insane. All this over having to push 1 button.

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>>> DirecTV support of DVR's is so laughable, but it's just not funny. <<<

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