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>>> New HR10-250 Owner has Bad UTV UI Withdrawals <<<

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 12:54 PM
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duffin
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New HR10-250 Owner has Bad UTV UI Withdrawals

I'm Duffin and I'm a UTV 'holic.

I've been playing with the HR10-250 for a few days. This is the first Tivo interface I've used.

I've been using a Ultimate TV DVR for 3-4 years. Wife can't live without it. My 4 year old can navigate to his recorded shows no problem, play them, replay them, etc. Now he's stumped even with some training by me.

I also own a Samsung TS-160 DirecTV HDTV receiver.

Now that I've spent time with the HR10-250, I only like it for the HDTV recording capability. I want what I had for UI and speed in the Ultimate TV. I may not be all the way up to speed on how to use the HR10-250, but I just spent $1000 and feel I have license to rant a bit.

Bottom line, the UI on the HR10-250 is WAY BELOW PAR on where it should be for an award winning, leading edge DVR. I understand that the HR10-250 is a generation behind the HD2 software version, but come on! How can a four year old UTV product sport a better UI?

Here is my ranked list of gaps agaisn the UTV that DirecTV needs Tivo to fix ASAP:

1. Guide display speed/referesh is like pooring honey out of a bottle. How can we Tivo users live with this display speed? Being that the UTV is a four year old product, its channel guide is 4x faster. I don't want to hear that this product is for recording only. It is for tuning live TV too!

2. Stop button - on the UTV, I hit stop and I get a choice to RESUME or START OVER or DELETE recorded shows. There is no stop button on the Tivo! My four year old doesn't know what to do without this! He wants to start his show again when it ends. Maybe in future Tivo generations, they will incorpate this. I understand this generation of HR10-250's won't get it since there is no stop button on the remote.

3. I understand newer Tivo software allows multiple groupings of one show to be listed as one line item on the List menu. UTV has been doing this from the beginning.

4. The UTV List or My Shows not only tells you of the title and record date, it gives you information on duration and what channel was used for recording. Duration is important on the summary screen because at a glance, you can tell if a recording was completed entirely versus interrupted.

5. Season Pass maintenance menu is buried one level too low. On the UTV, I can see the recorded program list and access the equivelant of season pass on the same screen to maintain desired repeat recordings.

6. When I set up a Season Pass recording, I want to repeat the day/time slot only. I have access to East/West network feeds and I record first run shows that repeat 5 times a day (i.e., Golf Central) that only need to be recorded the first time. The HR10-250 records multiple versions of the same show while the UTV stuck to the time slot I indicated for weekly recording. The UTV approach saves hard drive space.

7. While surfing the channel guide with the UTV in the present time or future, I can hit the red REC button to add a highlighted show to the recording list. Or I can hit REC twice to add it to the list to record weekly. But with the guide being slow as honey....

8. Every DirecTV receiver I have seen gives you the ability to place your current channel in a small window above the guide when scrolling through the channel guide. Not the HR10-250. BUMMER! I can't stand the silence when channel surfing.

9. Caller ID seems like a no brainer to implement on the HR10-250 since it is plugged (in most cases) to a phone jack.

10. If both satellite tuners are recording shows on the HR10-250, I'd like the ability to tune to an OTA station for live tv viewing. Granted the UTV doesn't sport this, but why not the HR10-250? Not a withdrawal, I know, but it would be nice.

OK Tivo Community, help me get through these UI withdrawals.

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SLOmike is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 01:20 PM
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SLOmike
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Re: New HR10-250 Owner has Bad UTV UI Withdrawals

quote:
Originally posted by duffin
1. Guide display speed/referesh is like pooring honey out of a bottle. How can we Tivo users live with this display speed? Being that the UTV is a four year old product, its channel guide is 4x faster. I don't want to hear that this product is for recording only. It is for tuning live TV too!
Use the TiVo guide, not DirecTV grid.

quote:

2. Stop button - on the UTV, I hit stop and I get a choice to RESUME or START OVER or DELETE recorded shows. There is no stop button on the Tivo! My four year old doesn't know what to do without this! He wants to start his show again when it ends. Maybe in future Tivo generations, they will incorpate this. I understand this generation of HR10-250's won't get it since there is no stop button on the remote.
Use the advance button to get back to the beginning. It may take a few clicks.


quote:

6. When I set up a Season Pass recording, I want to repeat the day/time slot only. I have access to East/West network feeds and I record first run shows that repeat 5 times a day (i.e., Golf Central) that only need to be recorded the first time. The HR10-250 records multiple versions of the same show while the UTV stuck to the time slot I indicated for weekly recording. The UTV approach saves hard drive space.
Use a manual recording if you want a date time slot.

quote:
10. If both satellite tuners are recording shows on the HR10-250, I'd like the ability to tune to an OTA station for live tv viewing. Granted the UTV doesn't sport this, but why not the HR10-250? Not a withdrawal, I know, but it would be nice..
The HD DirecTiVo was designed to have "two tuners" each of which can be either tuning the sat or tuning OTA.

-Mike

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spectecjr is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 01:31 PM
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spectecjr
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quote:
2. Stop button - on the UTV, I hit stop and I get a choice to RESUME or START OVER or DELETE recorded shows. There is no stop button on the Tivo! My four year old doesn't know what to do without this! He wants to start his show again when it ends. Maybe in future Tivo generations, they will incorpate this. I understand this generation of HR10-250's won't get it since there is no stop button on the remote.


Press Left on the pad. If you're near the end of a show, it'll ask you if you want to keep it or delete it.

(This is the equivalent of Stop - Playing again will let you resume).

To start over, press the -->| button twice.

quote:
4. The UTV List or My Shows not only tells you of the title and record date, it gives you information on duration and what channel was used for recording. Duration is important on the summary screen because at a glance, you can tell if a recording was completed entirely versus interrupted.


Why would a recording be interrupted?

quote:
5. Season Pass maintenance menu is buried one level too low. On the UTV, I can see the recorded program list and access the equivelant of season pass on the same screen to maintain desired repeat recordings.


Not entirely sure from this what it gives you. You can hit the DirecTV button, then 1 from the remote to take you to the Season pass menu, but I don't think this is what you're getting at.

quote:
7. While surfing the channel guide with the UTV in the present time or future, I can hit the red REC button to add a highlighted show to the recording list. Or I can hit REC twice to add it to the list to record weekly. But with the guide being slow as honey....


You can do the same with this. Hit the REC button to add the show to the recording list, or get a season pass. Your choice.

quote:
8. Every DirecTV receiver I have seen gives you the ability to place your current channel in a small window above the guide when scrolling through the channel guide. Not the HR10-250. BUMMER! I can't stand the silence when channel surfing.


Not sure what you're talking about here. When I'm looking through the guide, I get the current channel I'm watching in the background. As for the Picture-in-Picture, don't forget that you'd give up a receiver channel for that privilege - and most people prefer to record two channels at once. If they implemented that, you'd get people complaining about not having working picture in picture when they were using the system and both receivers were being used to record.

quote:
10. If both satellite tuners are recording shows on the HR10-250, I'd like the ability to tune to an OTA station for live tv viewing. Granted the UTV doesn't sport this, but why not the HR10-250? Not a withdrawal, I know, but it would be nice.


Because there's not enough bandwidth and memory inside the system for that. Remember, it's already doing three things - reading live TV from the hard-drive, and writing two channels of TV *to* the hard drive. It can't do a fourth thing simultaneously without a system with twice the horsepower. Which would push the price up even higher.

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sangs is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 04:23 PM
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sangs
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You'll be OK. I was in the same boat about a year or so ago. When I first switched from UTV to Tivo I thought it was a substantial step backwards. But you'll unearth a lot of things that the Tivo does similarly or better than the UTV. There are still some UTV features that I miss, but overall, I now think Tivo is the clear-cut winner. Spend some time in the other Tivo forums and you'll unearth an abundance of information. Good luck.

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TimGoodwin is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 05:30 PM
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TimGoodwin
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I also had a hard time switching from UTV to Tivo. I really miss some of UTV's features. Maybe some day it will make a come back with a HD model! Yea right! But you do learn to like the slowness of Tivo. Hopefully it will get better soon.

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videoholic is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 05:36 PM
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videoholic
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I just hope TiVo comes out with some updatd software soon. I am also in the same boat as you guys.

Such a shame UTV didn't make it because the software certainly kicks TiVos ass in every department but HD.

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convbcuda is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 05:36 PM
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convbcuda
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Wow! Your wife and mine could be sisters. We gave a Tivo to her parents for Christmas in 2002, and she hates the Tivo interface compared to the UTV. I have to agree. UTV is something Microsoft got right, then of course they abandoned it. I'd love to have an HD UltimateTV box if they made one.

I may stick with my Zenith HD receiver until they go to the newer Tivo interface on the HD units, or when they stop supporting UTV.

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Cheezmo is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 05:51 PM
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I'm having many of the same feelings as a ReplayTV user. There are so many things it does so much better in the user interface department. But, no HD so there you are. I'm sure familiarity will make things better, but the slow guide, lack of categories and other things mentioned definitely make the TiVo feel like a big step backwards.

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isbellHFh is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 06:19 PM
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isbellHFh
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I'm going to suggest that when most of you say "worse" you really mean "differently than I am used to". Further, I'm going to suggest that one would hear almost exactly the same complaints from someone going from TiVo to UT or RT (or DirecTV for that matter).

Looking at the list of complaints, I think you can do just about everything you want to do with the TiVo interface, and just as quickly (and in some cases quicker). The problem is that you don't know how yet. The good news is that time cures that.

Peace.

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Lee L is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 06:42 PM
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I know how you feel. I have had a couple of DishPlayers for a few years and the TiVo interface definitely is taking some getting used to for both me and my wife. The no stop button thing was a little confusing for a while but my wife figured out the left arrow thing, in fact it acts very similarly to the BACK button on the DishPlayer and I assume UTV. I have also noticed that the INFO button on TiVo can help a lot as it gives you access to functions in the guide and on shows you are watching like record, etc.

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avNeophyte is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 07:50 PM
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quote:
1. Guide display speed/referesh is like pooring honey out of a bottle.


You're too generous. The D* guide on the TiVo is FAR slower than pouring honey out of a bottle.

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GreyGhost00 is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:12 PM
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Re: New HR10-250 Owner has Bad UTV UI Withdrawals

quote:
Originally posted by duffin
4. The UTV List or My Shows not only tells you of the title and record date, it gives you information on duration and what channel was used for recording. Duration is important on the summary screen because at a glance, you can tell if a recording was completed entirely versus interrupted.


Hitting 'SELECT' or using the right arrow while on a listing in Now Playing will bring up a screen that has those details - Channel, duration, if it's a partial recording, etc.) A left arrow returns you to Now Playing. Certainly not quite as convenient, but the info is there one button press down.

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oosik77 is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:37 PM
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oosik77
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Having never used UTV I can't really compare. I can say that my wife took to the Tivo interface like a fish to water and she does user interface design for web pages as a career. So she does deal with "ease of use" issues all the time. Also, we have many friends now who also think it's very intuitive. I think it's just an issue of being used to one thing and then using something else. Humans hate change by nature. Just stick with it and it will be second nature.

The thing I hate is they moved the power button on the new remote. It's always been where RATIO is now. Why? This one will take some time to get used to cuz I still have my old DSR-6000 in the bedroom so I use that remote too!

On your item #6 if you select First Run only doesn't that solve your problem or is the program description so vague that Tivo records them all to be "safe"? If that's the case is it something like a news program where you watch it every day and if you miss it one day you don't watch it later? If so setup your seasons pass to keep just one showing and set it to SAVE UNTIL I DELETE. Then it will record the first showing and not record any more until you delete that one.

As to guide issues I have gotten to where I can't tell you the last time I've used the guide for anything. To me the guide is almost useless.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:43 PM
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duffin
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quote:
Originally posted by avNeophyte
You're too generous. The D* guide on the TiVo is FAR slower than pouring honey out of a bottle.


It is shameful they released such a slow guide!

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borghe is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by isbellHFh
I'm going to suggest that when most of you say "worse" you really mean "differently than I am used to". Further, I'm going to suggest that one would hear almost exactly the same complaints from someone going from TiVo to UT or RT (or DirecTV for that matter).

Looking at the list of complaints, I think you can do just about everything you want to do with the TiVo interface, and just as quickly (and in some cases quicker). The problem is that you don't know how yet. The good news is that time cures that.

Peace.


agreed.. people are so quick to say something is worse.. what's funny is that I bet someone going to UTV from Tivo would say that the UTV is worse...

play with it and get used to it.. even more importantly, ASK QUESTIONS HERE. There are many things it sounds like you don't know how to do with the unit.. ask them here. I have already seen a lot of good suggestions in this thread. Some of my personal suggestions.

1. Use the Tivo list guide. Yes it is different than the grid guide you may be used to, but it is faster and when you start recording more than you watch live, the list guide is usually better to find shows with.

2. There is no stop button, but if you hit any other button to leave the recording, the show knows exactly where you left off. the left arrow takes you back to the shows screen in your Now Showing list.

3. Tivo has also had grouping for a year.. Unfortunately we have to wait and hope we get HMO on the DirecTV units.

4. All of that information is on the show's screen. And why would a show be interrupted?

5. Shortcut to season passes is Tivo+1. Hit the Tivo button (or I guess it is DirecTV button now) and press 1 immediately after.

6. under Pick Programs to record, set up a manual recording and you can set the channel, time, and whether it is once, weekly, 5 day daily, or 7 day daily.

7. Hit the record button on any show. A menu will pop up asking if you want to just record it or setup a season pass for it. You can also press select in the guide on any future show (ie not in the current time slot) and you will get the same menu.

8. Tivo list guide takes up less space than the DirecTV grid guide and is also slightly transparent.. You still have access to the show while surfing.. Also, if you miss something, just rewind.

9. I agree that callerid would be awesome, the problem is that callerid isn't a requirement on the modem that comes with the Tivo. You can actually get callerid working on the unit but requires a lot of work and replacing a chip on the Tivo.

10. The unit only has two virtual tuners looking at any of the four physical tuners at any given time. What you are asking for would require a third virtual tuner, and the ability to record a third program, even if only for buffering. It would be a base fundamental change with the unit, not just a switch flip like you are implying.

hopefully this helps.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:45 PM
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duffin
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Re: Re: New HR10-250 Owner has Bad UTV UI Withdrawals

quote:
Originally posted by SLOmike

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by duffin
1. Guide display speed/referesh is like pooring honey out of a bottle. How can we Tivo users live with this display speed? Being that the UTV is a four year old product, its channel guide is 4x faster. I don't want to hear that this product is for recording only. It is for tuning live TV too!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use the TiVo guide, not DirecTV grid.




I thought of that, but now I can't find the setup to change it to Tivo Guide.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:46 PM
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duffin
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Re: Re: New HR10-250 Owner has Bad UTV UI Withdrawals

quote:
Originally posted by SLOmike
2. Stop button - on the UTV, I hit stop and I get a choice to RESUME or START OVER or DELETE recorded shows. There is no stop button on the Tivo! My four year old doesn't know what to do without this! He wants to start his show again when it ends. Maybe in future Tivo generations, they will incorpate this. I understand this generation of HR10-250's won't get it since there is no stop button on the remote.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use the advance button to get back to the beginning. It may take a few clicks.



I programmed the advance button to skip forward 30 seconds.

I've programmed my Harmony remote's STOP button to take the user to the LIST.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:49 PM
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duffin
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quote:
Originally posted by spectecjr quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. The UTV List or My Shows not only tells you of the title and record date, it gives you information on duration and what channel was used for recording. Duration is important on the summary screen because at a glance, you can tell if a recording was completed entirely versus interrupted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Why would a recording be interrupted?
[/B]


When two shows are recording simultaneously and my wife sits down to watch Oprah live, she's oblivious (or malicious) that she stops by accident something I had recording. Or maybe there is a conflict between three shows schedule for recording and 2.5 recorded.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:52 PM
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duffin
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quote:
Originally posted by spectecjr
You can do the same with this. Hit the REC button to add the show to the recording list, or get a season pass. Your choice.


I can't get this behavior when viewing the channel guide for some reason.


quote:
Originally posted by spectecjr
Not sure what you're talking about here. When I'm looking through the guide, I get the current channel I'm watching in the background.


The UTV or other DirecTV tuners take the current background channel and reduce it to a small window in the header of the screen with the channel guide below.

I'm not after Pic in Pic.

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duffin is offline Old Post 05-18-2004 08:56 PM
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duffin
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quote:
Originally posted by oosik77
On your item #6 if you select First Run only doesn't that solve your problem or is the program description so vague that Tivo records them all to be "safe"?


I've selected FIrst Run, but it records multiples because the description is vague.

I'll try the manual approach someone else suggested.

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