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>>> Concerns about mutliple DVR subscription pricing! <<<

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Beach is offline Old Post 04-12-2003 07:00 PM
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Beach
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Exactly

This is the point.
Some view this as "ranting".
Speaking from experience! We use this kind of "feedback" to change business in the companies I have worked for. One or two customers saying the pricing model is keeping them from buying boxes won't make the difference, especially if it is a contract issue. Tivo will need to show how the contract is impacting the ability for both parties to maximize revenue!
Now maybe they will do some research in this down the road when they are ready, but then again I haven't heard anyone say Tivo asked what a fair market price for box 2, 3 ,4 using HMO would be in the first place.

I am still anxiously awaiting the reply from Phone1 and mmascari on redundancy.

Beach

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mmascari is offline Old Post 04-12-2003 09:45 PM
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mmascari
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Re: Great I will get two replies then.

quote:
Originally posted by Beach
Mmascari and Phone1.
My question still stands.

What factors keep Tivo from seeing large redundancy savings with units 2,3, etc. in the same home using HMO?

I would like both your perspectives.

Beach



As I said in a previous post, today's production platform doesn't support your suggestion. If a future platform will support this model, I don't know.

I don't work for TiVo, only have 1 TiVo, and waited to buy it for a very long time since one of the features I want isn't supported. There wasn't an alternative product that supported that feature though, so when the price increase for Lifetime service was announced, I got one right away. If I did work for TiVo, or had any knowledge about future pricing strategies, I definitely wouldn't be posting here.

As I said before, any announcement of a price decrease can only hurt sales until the decrease is made. If you want a recent example of this, look at the video game market last year. XBOX prices were announced that they would be lowered from the same price as PS2 to $50 cheaper in several weeks. At the same time, Sony stated there would be no change in PS2 price. This left a market where PS2 buyers didn't change, but XBOX buyers were waiting for the price to drop. One week before the XBOX price drop, Sony dropped the price of the PS2 $50, effective immediately. Now, PS2 buyers had a cheaper product, and potential XBOX buyers waiting for the price drop had to compare the current PS2 price with a current XBOX price that was higher, or continue waiting for the future XBOX price that would be the same as the current PS2 price. I'm sure many buyers that were more price concerned than platform concerned switched, stopped waiting, and purchased immediately. If Sony had announced they were going to switch at the same time as XBOX, those buyers would have just waited, and additional buyers of both systems would probably have waiter for the price drop leaving extra stock stuck in the sales chain.

So my perspective is still that this is a good suggestion, but that we will not hear about any reduction in prices until they can be made. Remember, supporting 2 boxes talking to each other adds additional complications to the support structure compared to 2 boxes that are totally independent. I would guess that they are watching the roll out of HMO to help determine what extra work this puts on the support staff. If the load on the support staff is too high, then I wouldn't expect to see this kind of offer. The support issues around home networks is exactly why many broadband ISPs allow home networks, but don't support them.

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Beach is offline Old Post 04-13-2003 12:03 AM
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Beach
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Talking This is too funny

There are no economies of scale because Tivo hasn't figured out how to share the program information?
Is that your stance on my question?
The know how to share recorded media, they know how to share MP3s from my computer, they know how to show pictures and I can remotely manage my recordings but getting shared programming over the $100 HMO option is just too tough?
Is this the mentality you get when working with a TV crowd?
Phone1, you better have something better than this.
Again.
What factors keep Tivo from seeing large redundancy savings with units 2,3, etc. in the same home using HMO?

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mmascari is offline Old Post 04-13-2003 03:51 AM
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mmascari
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Re: This is too funny

quote:
Originally posted by Beach
There are no economies of scale because Tivo hasn't figured out how to share the program information?
Is that your stance on my question?
The know how to share recorded media, they know how to share MP3s from my computer, they know how to show pictures and I can remotely manage my recordings but getting shared programming over the $100 HMO option is just too tough?
Is this the mentality you get when working with a TV crowd?



I didn't say they haven't figured out how to share the data on an HMO connection. I said "The current platform doesn't support this". These are two very different statements. Sharing the data is just one part of the cost, and we can only guess that it's the biggest, (probably a good guess). For that matter, how do you know it's not happening and they just didn't tell us (wild speculation by me with no grounds whatever ). My statement that it's not supported is based on what they have told us. Based on what we know about a TiVo, it doesn't share the data and there is no economy of scale, hence no price break.

Why do you assume they can do it? Why do you assume they should be giving us a price break if they do? What if connecting 2 TiVos on a network generates a larger percentage of support calls and negates any savings for TiVo? I don't know any of these answers, do you?

I stated that they would not announce a price break, until they could offer it immediately to avoid stopping sales to people who would buy additional units anyway. For someone who does "business Development for one of the best success stories in the Tech sector for 2002" you seem to have a problem with them not announcing a price break they are not ready to sell.

As many people have mentioned, the price of something isn't necessarily determined by it's cost, but rather by the supply and demand. Maybe they have studies that say, reducing the price of additional subscriptions will not create enough additional demand to make up for the price break. I can almost guarantee they have research concerning the supply side and what competing products there currently are or have been announced. So maybe, with the current supply there is no need to reduce the price.

All we can do here is make a guess based on unknown information. Anyone with real information isn't talking, and I wouldn't expect them to.

So, one more time, I'll say: A price break for additional units is a good suggestion. A demand that they should reduce the price and saying if they cann't they are not very smart, is a rant.

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Beach is offline Old Post 04-13-2003 07:46 AM
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Beach
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Smile Good Post

You make some good points.
I think patience more than anything seperates our view points.

To be clear I never demanded anything. Tivo can keep their prices were they are at, I just want to see them get to what I feel is a pricing model that will drive multiple units to the masses, sooner rather than later.

I purchased the HMO option for $99, funny how the second HMO only costs $49 <g>.

I have been in the networking and application space for 14 years. Technically their can't be that big of road blocks to sharing program data. The current connectivity would suggest it is feasable today. And what I am saying is if technical roadblocks do exist they have allowed them to stay there.

Phone1 says their are little economies of scale and that is why I keep pushing on this.

If anything it sounds like it could be a contract issue around the programming. Which is understandable but Tivo should look at renegotiating it if it is.

Aqain, Tivo can keep the price at what it is and if their data supports it great. I find it hard to believe it will stay there for many reasons.
BUT don't hide behind it's a technical issues. (That was my reference to being very smart)

Phone1 - Still waiting to get your answer to my question.

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phone1 is offline Old Post 04-13-2003 10:21 AM
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Some people just don't get it. Give it up and put him on your ignore list as I did.

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Beach is offline Old Post 04-14-2003 11:30 PM
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Beach
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Some people don't like to ask questions

1 if I was on the ignore list why bother replying
2 you did not answer a very basic question for a Tivo guru such as yourself.

Educate me.

What factors keep Tivo from seeing large redundancy savings with units 2,3, etc. in the same home using HMO?

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mmascari is offline Old Post 04-14-2003 11:58 PM
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mmascari
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Re: Some people don't like to ask questions

quote:
Originally posted by Beach
1 if I was on the ignore list why bother replying
2 you did not answer a very basic question for a Tivo guru such as yourself.

Educate me.

What factors keep Tivo from seeing large redundancy savings with units 2,3, etc. in the same home using HMO?



I believe the post was directed at me, since posts from an ignored user do not show any text. I also, know that phone1 doesn't just ignore users because he disagrees with them, otherwise I would be ignored since we have disagreed in the past.

Why should anyone bother to try and educate you? You obviously want a second TiVo, but don't want to pay as much for it. Otherwise, you should have read the answer to your question in one of the previous posts.

Why don't you educate us on how the current platform supports this.

When you're ready to talk about actual possibilities, and not just complaining about the cost come back and chat.

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Beach is offline Old Post 04-15-2003 01:53 AM
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Beach
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Talking It is not about the price.

"has been pointed out it doesn't today. This was discussed in detail in the other thread about this. Next time, "study up" before beginning a rant."

I didn't find the answer to my question or any detail in the other thread.

"It just doesn't work that way" is not an answer.

I just find it comical you have put the costs on technology.

There is margin in mystery, I find nothing mysterious about sharing program data. You two obviously do.


See you at the price break, any bets on how long <lol>

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phone1 is offline Old Post 04-15-2003 02:23 AM
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Re: Re: Some people don't like to ask questions

quote:
Originally posted by mmascari
I also, know that phone1 doesn't just ignore users because he disagrees with them, otherwise I would be ignored since we have disagreed in the past.
You're right, with only 5 names it's a pretty exclusive list. You have to work really hard to earn a membership.

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HDVR2 35 Hrs. -> 212 Hrs. with TwinBreeze™
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Beach is offline Old Post 06-10-2004 03:46 AM
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Beach
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Thumbs up

Haven't been on the forum since this post but I know my last words were.

"Time will prove this right, I guarantee it!"

Loved getting this email. Glad to see Tivo is getting smarter or more efficient, which ever way you want to look at it.



>>>>>>>>
Letter from the Editor:
I L-O-V-E my job, especially when I get to break great news like this: Starting immediately, every TiVo® service subscriber with two or more TiVo® boxes in the home pays a lower service fee on each additional box. So, instead of paying $12.95 on every box in your home, you'll pay a discounted monthly fee of just $6.95 for each additional box—up to five additional boxes! If you already have two or more boxes with monthly subscription, expect to see the lower fee (we're calling it Multi-Service Discount) on your next billing cycle. (Yay! And you thought we didn't read your e-mails...)

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psquarednyc is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 02:51 AM
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psquarednyc
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i haven't been to this message board in almost a month, but when i got that email today i HAD to check in to see who got the first "i told you so" in.

i never really understood the ins and outs of the argument that said this couldn't be done, so i didn't bother to get into the argument. i did find it fascinating, though, that the people who said it couldn't be done sounded almost insulted that anyone would suggest it.

it's amazing what a little competition will inspire. i had just gotten done reading an email from scientific atlanta saying that they now have the technology to share dvr programming with a non-dvr cable box in the same house, and the next email i read was telling me that tivo was giving me home media option for free and multiple box discounts.

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steuert is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 05:16 AM
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If you are really interested in getting multiple TiVos at minimum cost, rather than offering long-winded and unsolicited opinions on TiVo's business model, then you can buy a refurbished Series 1 at www.servicedvr.com and use it unsubbed, or you can subscribe to DTV and pay only $5 ea. for extra DVR's (each with two tuners, yet.)

If, on the other hand you only want to tell TiVo how to run its business, then your remarks might better be addressed to the company's officers than to the members of this Forum. Maybe they'll hire you as CEO, since you obviously know more than they do about the best corporate strategy.

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Hunter Green is offline Old Post 06-11-2004 05:38 AM
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Hunter Green
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No one ever said "it couldn't be done" except the people who were looking for a straw man to cut down. The argument "against", as it were, was that it was not financially sensible for TiVo. Nothing in that precluded the possibility that it would become sensible later; in fact, that possibility was discussed.

The reason it probably wasn't feasible is simple. TiVo wasn't the originator of this data. The entire argument that multiple subscriptions should cost less is predicated on the assumption that those subscriptions cost TiVo less to service, but without knowing what TiVo's business arrangements with Tribune were, or are, there was no way to tell. There were rumors suggesting Tribune was charging TiVo a flat rate per box, regardless of where those boxes were; and if so it only makes sense TiVo would have to charge us the same way.

But even if that wasn't their arrangement with Tribune, the point remained: TiVo wasn't making money, and they can't go from not making money to making money by simply charging less. That's the kind of simplistic, unrealistic thing that led to the Internet Bubble and to it popping.

Whatever the situation was, that was a year ago. Even in the brick-and-mortar world, everything changes in a year. In the tech sector, everything changes twelve times in a year.

For every misguided "I told you so" we could just as quickly say "I told you so" that this was going to happen including the "I told you so" itself along with its misguided straw-man posturing. So what? None of us really know a darned thing about any of it anyway.

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phone1 is offline Old Post 06-16-2004 10:00 AM
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And already, we're already seeing posts from those who would seek to abuse it: So can I buy a TiVo for may (sic) parents and pay $6.95 if it's billed to me?

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HDVR2 35 Hrs. -> 212 Hrs. with TwinBreeze™
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