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>>> How slow should a wireless transfer be? <<<

 
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rseligman is offline Old Post 06-22-2004 07:06 AM
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rseligman
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1009

How slow should a wireless transfer be?

I have two TiVos with wireless adapters on my home network (one's a D-Link, one's a Linksys, but they're both on the compatible list). Each of them shows about 60% signal strength in the TiVo's system info screen.

"Basic" quality recordings take about 3x realtime to transfer.

What speeds do others see over wireless? Any tips on what could be slowing it down so much?

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Crrink is offline Old Post 06-22-2004 09:14 AM
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Crrink
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When I was using 802.11b my transfers were slow enough that I never had the patience to figure out how long they took.
I simply knew they took too long to be of any use to me until the next day. We used to try to plan what we wanted to transfer and set them up when we went to bed.

I tried to rig an 802.11g network but it only half worked, so I bit the bullet, spent a weekend in the attic, and wired my house with Cat 5e.

Anyway, to answer your question, while I hope your speed is not typical, it's probably not all that unusual. Some things that might help are getting a better signal by either moving stuff around, or buying a repeater, or separate antenna for your router.

Bedelman, who I'm sure will be along any minute, will point out that you may have some interference on your wireless system. He recommended a tool to diagnose that in an old thread, but when I downloaded it, I couldn't make heads or tails of it - here's to hoping that you're smarter with the networking stuff than I am (no great feat, I assure you ).
Anyway, I'm sure he'll be along to provide a link, but if he's taking the day off, I'll dig the old thread up just in case the program will help you.

I'm really hoping that TiVo adds 802.11g support soon. MRV just isn't fast enough for a ton of people at b speeds. G makes it a nice, convenient feature to have.

Oh, one other thing, if it is at all possible to wire one of your TiVo's you will very likely notice a big increase in speed. Bedelman taught me that too - he's pretty good with the networking stuff, and really generous with sharing his knowledge

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bedelman is offline Old Post 06-22-2004 10:28 AM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
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<sigh>
I wish people would just call me "Bob"
</sigh>

The network diagnostic tool I've used in the past is named "Intermapper" and a free trial is available at http://www.intermapper.com

Basic quality over a regular wireless connection should do slightly better than real time. Interference can really wreck wireless performance -- look for 2.4GHz phones, 2.4GHz video distribution devices, and other wireless networks (changing your wireless channel and SSID)

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Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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Crrink is offline Old Post 06-22-2004 06:56 PM
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Crrink
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quote:
Originally posted by bedelman
<sigh>
I wish people would just call me "Bob"
</sigh>
...snip...



Sorry, Bob. I usually call people here by their usernames to make it easier for people to search for other threads that person has participated in.

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ZingZingZingbah is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 07:47 PM
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ZingZingZingbah
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What is the transfer speed of basic quality recordings between 2 Tivo SA with 802.11b adapters(assuming an ideal connection)?

Would a setup with one 802.11b adapter and one 100mb wired adapter greatly increase the transfer rate between the 2 Tivos?

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bedelman is offline Old Post 06-23-2004 08:03 PM
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bedelman
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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
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quote:
Originally posted by ZingZingZingbah
What is the transfer speed of basic quality recordings between 2 Tivo SA with 802.11b adapters(assuming an ideal connection)?
A 30 minute show transfers in about 20-25 minutes.
quote:
Would a setup with one 802.11b adapter and one 100mb wired adapter greatly increase the transfer rate between the 2 Tivos?
Yes -- in this case a 30 minute show in Basic Quality transfers in about 12-15 minutes.

__________________
Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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rseligman is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 11:13 AM
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rseligman
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OK, Bob, or any other network gurus... I've found that transferring a show from TiVo A to TiVo B goes at 2-3x realtime, while transferring from TiVo B to TiVo A only takes about .8x realtime! Any ideas why that would be? I even put both on the Linksys WUSB11 to see if that was an issue, and it didn't help.

They get their addresses from dynamic DHCP, and I don't have anything special set for any particular address. I even tried assigning them via static DHCP, just in case something was weird about the addresses they were getting. No change.

I've also found that if I configure the TiVos to operate on a peer-to-peer network, then I get .8x speed in both directions. But once I put them back on the home network, I'm back to the discrepancy.

Any thoughts?

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bedelman is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 07:42 PM
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bedelman
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Peer to Peer in a wireless environment will be faster because there's no Wireless Access Point (or router) involved. With an access point, the signal has to go to it and then back out to the other unit.

Are both TiVo units getting more or less the same signal strength? Could one of them be close to a source of interference (2.4GHz phones, 2.4GHz video senders, other wireless networks, etc.)?

If there's nothing really different, you might try swapping the WUSB11 adapters and see if the situation moves with the adapter.

__________________
Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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michang5 is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 10:31 PM
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michang5
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I received my second TiVo yesterday and got it up and running wirelessly on my 802.11g network.

Two TiVos, two Belkin routers (one acting as an access point), a Mac desktop with Belkin wireless PCI card, and a PowerBook with a Belkin wireless PCMCIA card. All equipment 11g.

Once I got everything configured correctly, I tried transferring some shows:

- Basic quality = seemed to transfers twice as fast as viewing time (after 5 minutes of watching, I had about 10 minutes built-up). Maybe faster?

- High quality = seemed to transfer about 1:1 (after about 5 minutes of watching, I had about 30 sec. or 1 minute built-up)

- Medium = somewhere in between

- Best = I didn't have any Best shows recorded, so I didn't test. I'm expecting a bit of lag, but not too worried b/c I seldom TiVo in Best.

__________________
TiVo Series 2 - 60hr. + TiVo Series 2 - 40hr.
Two Belkin F5D7230-4 wireless routers (bridge and access point enabled)
Two Linksys USB200M
Mac G4 tower with Belkin F5D7000
PowerBook with Belkin F5D7010

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rseligman is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 12:17 AM
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rseligman
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quote:
Originally posted by bedelman
Could one of them be close to a source of interference (2.4GHz phones, 2.4GHz video senders, other wireless networks, etc.)?
Eureka! Or, more appropriately, aww crap!

In either case, that was exactly it. The "slow-receiving-but-fast-sending" TiVo is in the same room as a 2.4GHz phone base. I guess it's being bombarded by the phone's continuous transmissions? I unplugged the phone and the transfer speed improved dramatically.

Is there anything I can do to reduce this interference? Like put the network on a different channel or something?

Unplugging the phone each time I want to use MRV will be a pain (have to reset the date/time after), but still much easier than switching the TiVos between the home network and p2p. At least until I can run some cat5.

One thing I don't get, though, is why the p2p network would be less affected by the phone interference. Unless perhaps the interference is still a factor, but the shorter distance (just between the TiVos, instead of going through the router) makes up for it. I'll have to try p2p with the phone unplugged and see if I get blazing speeds.

Thanks for your help, and please let me know if you know of a way to lessen the interference.

michang5, thanks for reporting your results. It gives me hope!

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bedelman is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 01:01 AM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

I use a 900MHz phone for exactly this reason. I do have interference with the 2.4GHz video senders I use and have found that using channel 11 on the wireless network seems to be best.

Wouldn't it be possible to move your phone base to somewhere else?

__________________
Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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chesspud is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 10:10 AM
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chesspud
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Registered: Apr 2003
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Transfer speed

Anyone know why Tivo decided to stream from one Tivo box to the other and not just do a file transfer... OMG streaming is sooooo sloooww... Im really disapointed in my HOME OPTION...

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T-Veaux is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 10:58 AM
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T-Veaux
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Using this setup, I've had no problems transferring shows. I can send a 30 minute "medium" quality setting show across to the 2nd TiVo in about 12 minutes.

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T-Veaux is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 11:00 AM
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T-Veaux
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Re: Transfer speed

quote:
Originally posted by chesspud
Anyone know why Tivo decided to stream from one Tivo box to the other and not just do a file transfer... OMG streaming is sooooo sloooww... Im really disapointed in my HOME OPTION...
I think you might be confused about how much data is being transfered. What you suggest would merely take away the ability to watch ANY of the recording before it had finished transferring - not really speed it up.

A full strength 802.11b signal will get you about 3.5-4.5 Mbps without WEP enabled. With WEP enabled, expect 2.5-3.5 Mbps. As you put walls and distance between your wireless adapter and your access point, your speed will drop.

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T-Veaux - Established 1978

"Brilliant!" - TiVoPony | "Brilliant!" - phone1 | "T-Veaux's brilliant..." - TiVoOpsMgr

Can you see my ego swelling from there??

Last edited by T-Veaux on 06-25-2004 at 11:10 AM

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rseligman is offline Old Post 06-27-2004 03:50 AM
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rseligman
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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1009

To address this, first I tried putting a foil barrier over my phone base's antenna. That didn't do anything.

I went to change the wireless channel, but it gave me 6 as the only option. After some digging, I learned that my D-Link router's "Super G" mode uses multiple channels, so it doesn't let you pick one. I disabled that mode (which puts it back in "regular" G), and chose channel 11.

Now the transfer speed appears only slightly slower than realtime. Not as good as unplugging the phone, but certainly better than 2-3x realtime! I know I can always move the phone, but it's convenient where it is.

Thanks for the suggestions. I hope when TiVo supports G adapters, this will no longer be an issue.

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michang5 is offline Old Post 06-27-2004 04:34 AM
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michang5
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Not to trumpet good news in the face of so many people having problems/slow speeds, but I want to update my Basic transfer speed to: 30 minutes of show transferring in less than 8 minutes. Best of luck to everyone -- it's worth it.

__________________
TiVo Series 2 - 60hr. + TiVo Series 2 - 40hr.
Two Belkin F5D7230-4 wireless routers (bridge and access point enabled)
Two Linksys USB200M
Mac G4 tower with Belkin F5D7000
PowerBook with Belkin F5D7010

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ldc3000 is offline Old Post 06-29-2004 08:33 AM
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ldc3000
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Re: Re: Transfer speed

quote:
Originally posted by T-Veaux
I think you might be confused about how much data is being transfered. What you suggest would merely take away the ability to watch ANY of the recording before it had finished transferring - not really speed it up.

A full strength 802.11b signal will get you about 3.5-4.5 Mbps without WEP enabled. With WEP enabled, expect 2.5-3.5 Mbps. As you put walls and distance between your wireless adapter and your access point, your speed will drop.



The speeds are going to vary depending on how far the units are from the source(.ie the router) and if there is any interference. The throughput on a 802.11b maxes out at 11Mbps in a perfect senario. So unless your network covers a large area or you have walls or appliances causing a lot of interference you should get better speeds than that. In theory.

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