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>>> VOD through Internet coming to TiVo!!! <<<
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01-08-2002 11:02 PM

Dajad
Advanced Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Toronto
Posts: 953

VOD through Internet coming to TiVo!!!

Well, you've heard me blabbing on about this for years ... today TiVo announced it's moving forward with a video-on-demand over the Internet strategy!

Whoo Hoo!!! Congrats TiVo for taking this bold step forward!!! Thanks to JivenJeff for bringing this to my attention over at TMF!!!

...Dale

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020108/sftu098_1.html

-- Radiance Technologies, Inc., an emerging delivery management software company, will have its client integrated into the TiVo Series2 DVR as a foundation for broadband delivery management services. In addition, Radiance will work with TiVo to develop and integrate into the TiVo platform an Internet Video-on-Demand (iVOD) application and toolkit atop the Radiance client. Content providers will benefit from the combination of end-to-end content security and the superior economics of Radiance's scheduled delivery approach.

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01-08-2002 11:06 PM

JivinJeff
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 42

For those listening to the TiVo press conference, they're giving a live demo of a HBO iVOD service.

They're downloading a trailer for the movie Shrek and just played one of the episodes from the first season show of the Sopranos.

Very exciting stuff indeed...

Jeff

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01-08-2002 11:10 PM

HTH
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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 3582

I can think of two companies that might object to the iVOD name: Apple and Izod (the people who make the shirts with the alligator on).

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01-08-2002 11:15 PM

DrStrange
Advanced Member

Registered: May 2000
Location:
Posts: 811

I'll get excited about it when I see it. I'm not saying I won't see it, just that Tivo is now one of three companies announcing it and until I see it done, and hear that it's content I want, I'm not getting worked up about it.

I'm disappointed to hear nothing about commonly requested refinements to the PVR functionality (batch save, time-windowed season passes, jumping to a time index in a show, etc) and a lot of the kind of stuff I yawned at ReplayTV for. E-photo albums, party games? WTF does that have to do with "TV your way"? Tivos PVR capabilities are better than anyone elses atm, but they aren't finished. I hope Tivo won't neglect the capabilities I bought the box for in the first place.

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01-09-2002 12:02 AM

grandpa_tivo
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Lenexa, KS USA
Posts: 0

quote:
Originally posted by DrStrange
I'll get excited about it when I see it. I'm not saying I won't see it, just that Tivo is now one of three companies announcing it and until I see it done, and hear that it's content I want, I'm not getting worked up about it.

I'm disappointed to hear nothing about commonly requested refinements to the PVR functionality (batch save, time-windowed season passes, jumping to a time index in a show, etc) and a lot of the kind of stuff I yawned at ReplayTV for. E-photo albums, party games? WTF does that have to do with "TV your way"? Tivos PVR capabilities are better than anyone elses atm, but they aren't finished. I hope Tivo won't neglect the capabilities I bought the box for in the first place.

While I am not going to get upset about the news today regarding VOD or Real I do think you have a point about not losing sight of 'TV your way".

Maybe the victory for TV viewers is that Tivo wins license revenue via these new ventures for Tivo Series 2 and that allows the company to continue and therefore our Tivos life get extended.

grandpa_tivo

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01-09-2002 02:49 AM

TivoFan
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Olive Branch, MS
Posts: 240

quote:
Originally posted by HTH
I can think of two companies that might object to the iVOD name: Apple and Izod (the people who make the shirts with the alligator on).

Izod no longer has the crocodile on their shirts and have not for years. I believe they split and Lacoste now owns the logo.

See this link for some history on the logo.

www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/sho...hion/fa1475.php

This is the link for the company that owns the logo

www.lacoste.fr

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01-09-2002 03:08 AM

ahintz
Advanced Member

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 31

quote:
Originally posted by DrStrange
I'll get excited about it when I see it. I'm not saying I won't see it, just that Tivo is now one of three companies announcing it and until I see it done, and hear that it's content I want, I'm not getting worked up about it.

Well, TiVo demoed it at CES and it looks for real. Now, the content isn't there yet and I agree - if it doesn't show up, it won't be much. But tech wise this is an elegant way to introduce VOD and I for one am very excited about seeing content feeding what is some great technology.

--Andrew

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01-09-2002 04:42 AM

myridom
Bored Geek

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 0

iVOD - not really

I listened to the broadcast, and if i'm not mistaken, something to the effect was said.

That VOD was not really VOD, it was more like ordering a movie for later. Since the broadband capibility to support that was not really in place yet.

But I could be dreaming.

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01-09-2002 08:25 AM

ahintz
Advanced Member

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 31

The Radiance rep said it would take about 65 minutes to download a 22 minute TV show using a 500K connection. So while it would be delayed by a few hours - a day, it still gives you access to a larger library of content then what the broadcast and cable channels decide to air.

--Andrew

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01-09-2002 08:58 AM

nrc
Cracker Soul

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Living in a four letter world.
Posts: 697

Interesting that they use a 22 minute show as an example. I guess we tend to think of VOD as being movies, but if they were to offer every episode of some of the popular sitcoms they could probably get some hits on missed or classic episodes.

Or what if they record every program on the major networks and store them online for a month? How often have you heard about a program after the fact and wished you could have known about it to record it. Drew Barrymore on Letterman? Dave's first show back after September 11? Just some favorite artist that you didn't know was going to be on?

If they make things like that available it would be worthwhile if the price was right. If they could cache enough content it could revolutionize TV in much the same way TiVo did originally.

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01-09-2002 10:01 AM

MighTiVo
TiVotarian

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1700

Re: iVOD - not really

quote:
Originally posted by myridom
I listened to the broadcast, and if i'm not mistaken, something to the effect was said.

That VOD was not really VOD, it was more like ordering a movie for later. Since the broadband capibility to support that was not really in place yet.

But I could be dreaming.

This is what I always called time warping compared to basic time shifting:
The ability to playback in real time content that has been transmitted at some other speed, either faster or slower than real time.

I never understood the Time Warp term for the TiVo patent [USPTO No. 6,233,389] "Which enables the simultaneous recording and playback of multiple streams as well as efficient and low-cost processing, synchronization, and storage of multimedia streams."

This is what the Real Player will NOT let you do!

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01-09-2002 10:33 AM

samo
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Littleton, CO, US
Posts: 438

I hope this VOD stuff doesn't become popular. Most broadband users now days (cable and some ADSL) are on shared bandwidth. This makes cost affordable for an average user. If people are going to use 6-7 hours of download time just to get a movie they can rent for $3, it will either drive cost of broadband connection sky high or slow it down or both. Everybody who is excited about VOD on internet keeps forgetting that internet connection is not free. Movie rental may cost you $3 or $4, but how much of internet resources does it require? If it ever becomes popular, I bet broadband providers will start charging you by Gig of transfer (like hosting providers do) instead of flat rate.

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01-09-2002 11:28 AM

BubbaDude
Member

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 12

Charging for bytes transferred is too complicated, so they're going a different route: when AT&T took over their Broadband Internet service from At Home, they capped downstream bandwidth at something less than 1.5 Mbps per user. So in effect, you have the same size pipe as with DSL.

The fact that the last thousand feet are shared on cable but not on DSL isn't very meaningful considering that all the rest of the net is shared already; that's the whole theory of packet switching, anyhow.

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01-09-2002 01:34 PM

ehopper
Out for repairs

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1169

quote:
Originally posted by samo
I hope this VOD stuff doesn't become popular. Most broadband users now days (cable and some ADSL) are on shared bandwidth. This makes cost affordable for an average user. If people are going to use 6-7 hours of download time just to get a movie they can rent for $3, it will either drive cost of broadband connection sky high or slow it down or both. Everybody who is excited about VOD on internet keeps forgetting that internet connection is not free. Movie rental may cost you $3 or $4, but how much of internet resources does it require? If it ever becomes popular, I bet broadband providers will start charging you by Gig of transfer (like hosting providers do) instead of flat rate.

First, *ALL DSL* users (and for that matter everyone else) are on shared bandwidth. That's what the Internet is. That's how backbone providers operate. They bring X mbps or Y gbps into a city and it is shared among their customers. That whole "cable is shared, DSL isn't" is a crock spread by the DSL industry.

That said, I do have the same concerns about the infrastructure being able to keep up with this. However, a good caching strategy can take care of some of the bottlenecks. Whether the last mile can be flooded is another story.

With the failure of @Home, the cable industry is re-building their infrastructure. From what I have seen of their strategy (and I've seen a fair amount), the new infrastructure is stronger than what was there before. But, it's not finished yet.

I suspect this whole VOD thing will be mostly a cable play, and therefore, they will assure that their infrastructure can handle it.

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01-09-2002 03:54 PM

Knative
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Tampa, Fla
Posts: 1008

quote:
Originally posted by ahintz
The Radiance rep said it would take about 65 minutes to download a 22 minute TV show ...

So, no commercials in my TV shows, right? And none of the advertisers have said anything about this yet?

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01-09-2002 04:01 PM

MighTiVo
TiVotarian

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1700

quote:
Originally posted by ehopper
First, *ALL DSL* users (and for that matter everyone else) are on shared bandwidth. That's what the Internet is. That's how backbone providers operate. They bring X mbps or Y gbps into a city and it is shared among their customers. That whole "cable is shared, DSL isn't" is a crock spread by the DSL industry.

The fact that the bandwidth is shared is not as important as the fact that the network is shared.

On a DSL connection you can't go beyound your home with anything that isn't routed. On many cable model connections you can view use non routed protocols to communicate with other people on your local segment. This is a huge security problem. Arp, netbui, IPX, etc. to your neighbors computers.....

I have taken advantage of this and put several computers on a cable modem connection without a router just grabbing unused IP addresses though....

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01-09-2002 05:06 PM

ahintz
Advanced Member

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 31

quote:
Originally posted by Knative
So, no commercials in my TV shows, right? And none of the advertisers have said anything about this yet?

This isn't free VOD - this is a rental model. The tech demo they did used copies of Sex in the City with the idea that you could order an episode for $1.95 or a season for say $29.95. So I think that is the direction they are aiming for simply because of the time issue and the fact that you can very easily get a video or DVD of a movie from blockbuster. But trying to find an episode of Sex in the City - that is a little harder.

Disclaimer: TiVo didn't make any announcements on any agreements with HBO. They simply used Sex in the City to demonstrate how the technology works.

--Andrew

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01-09-2002 05:42 PM

sbourgeo
Not Work Safe

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 1271

quote:
Originally posted by ahintz

Disclaimer: TiVo didn't make any announcements on any agreements with HBO. They simply used Sex in the City to demonstrate how the technology works.

True, but I thought that someone on this forum reported getting a survey from TiVo asking if they would be interested in paying for a season pass on a premium channel that they don't normally receive? I also thought that HBO was mentioned specifically by name...

Steve

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01-09-2002 05:57 PM

Bryanmc
Will work for money.

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Richardson, TX 75081
Posts: 8295

quote:
Originally posted by TivoFan

Izod no longer has the crocodile on their shirts and have not for years. I believe they split and Lacoste now owns the logo.

See this link for some history on the logo.

www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/sho...hion/fa1475.php

This is the link for the company that owns the logo

www.lacoste.fr

The first web site calls the logo a crocodile and even blatantly states that it is not an alligator.

The lactose site says that Lactose's nickname was "the alligator" and the logo is an alligator.

The controversy continues....

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01-09-2002 07:29 PM

DJRobX
{E2D9AA00-11F2-4F...

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Valencia, Ca
Posts: 221

quote:
On a DSL connection you can't go beyound your home with anything that isn't routed. On many cable model connections you can view use non routed protocols to communicate with other people on your local segment. This is a huge security problem. Arp, netbui, IPX, etc. to your neighbors computers.....

MANY? Virtually everyone is using DOCSIS now, which creates an encrypted link to your head-end. Not only can you not communicate directly with your neighbors, if you did, all you'd get is an encrypted stream. Someone would need some severely expensive and fancy hardware to be able to sniff their neighbor's traffic.

Netbeui? IPX? Those won't even go out over a cablemodem. ARP is not a "networking protocol" in the same sense as IPX, rather it's how your PC resolves a MAC address from an IP address. Normally, if you have a LAN with a bunch of PCs on it, you'd put them all in the same subnet. In that case, you'd want them to all talk directly to one another, and not go through a router. So, what happens is, if you send data from one IP to another on the same subnet, your PC will generate an ARP request to find out what the MAC address of the desitnation network card. On a cablemodem network, this is a problem because "other members" of the same subnet are in a different physical location. You really need to ROUTE rather than broadcast. So what happens is your cable headend takes the ARP request and rebroadcasts it to all your neighbors so their PCs can respond if they're online. This is called proxy-arping.

ARP does not contain sensitive information. It's simply "WHO HAS x.x.x.x TELL x.x.x.x" The only reason you've been hearing about ARP lately is that the current rash of viruses like to try and spread to other members of the same subnet, generating a ton of ARP traffic on a cablemodem network, causing modem lights to blink.

Disclaimer: There may be errors in my interpretation of the documentation I've read. IANANA (I am not a network admin)

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