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>>> Nokia ITVd box problem <<<

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HX| is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 12:24 AM
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HX|
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It also happens on other boxes - Pioneer DBR T500GB, Pace DTR-735, Philips DTX-6370.

All 3 of those boxes seem to randomly miss recordings.

The Pioneer has been the best out of the lot (using 20005-Fast, no other speed will work as they are way too slow - by the time they (slower speed settings) start to key in the 2nd number, it's already changed to the first number entered).

What seems to be happening is when the TIVO sends the channel change it also starts recording at almost exactly the same time - this seems to pause the sending of the IR signal, so that it either:

A
Sends one number,
{hard drive starts recording, sucking power},
Second number is lost in the ether. :)

or:

B
Sends one number,
{hard drive starts recording, sucking power},
Sends first number again (maybe it thinks it never sent the number the first time?)
Sends second number - resulting in a 3digit code being sent.


Rarely it will lose the first number and send just the 2nd, but IME A or B is more common.


The easiest possible solution would be a small delay in TIVO's software, eg:

Send IR command to change channel,
wait 2seconds;
Star Recording.

This will then make sure the chan has had plenty of time to change before the HD starts to record, which ATM is either sucking all power, OR (more likely) the OS is getting delayed doing anything else (reliable chan change) due to the sudden encoding/hard drive access.

Manual channel changes are virtualy perfect, reliably changing more than 99% of the time (on the pioneer) so it's definitely not a box/IR Code/IR TX placement issue ALONE, but IMHO a combination of the slow OD boxes, and the aforementioned lack of pause before starting recording.

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GarySargent is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 12:34 AM
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GarySargent
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HX| I think this problem is a Nokia one - the Nokia isn't missing digits, and there isn't pauses between digits. The digits are sent to the Nokia just fine - it just doesn't change channels like its supposed to!

I haven't seen such pauses with V2.5.5 by the way.

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Legolas is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 12:39 AM
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As listed in my ealier posts I don't know how we can guarentee the Nokia is receiving the digits, after about 100 channel change tests on manual its virtually flawless.

When recording and channel changes fail the digits are NOT seen on my Nokia box (either the box does not change at all, no digits are seen or the box changes to the wrong channel and only the partial channel number is seen).

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Legolas is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 01:06 AM
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Can we suggest the idea of a pause, I am certain this would cure the problem.

Ultimately I am sure that its the nokia box at fault, but the problem is introduced when the TiVo starts to record, so a user defined length of pause from the channel change, to the start of recording would be great.

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HX| is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 01:28 AM
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the problem is introduced when the TiVo starts to record, so a user defined length of pause from the channel change, to the start of recording would be great.

Indeed, this would be excellent - for people with no problems it wouldn't affect them in the slightest ( a 2 sec delay before recording starts is nothing), and for people with problems it will (should) stop it happening.

Or as Gary says, the OS doesnt seem to pause when starting recording in 2.5.5 - lets just hope they will put me on the priority list and I can get the update whilst being in the grace period - so I can evaluate and decide if to keep (after messing about lots already due to the RGB ghosting, which I can't resolve so I've settled with not using the tivo to watch live tv and using the aux passthru instead where it doesnt occur, and using a darkened colour scheme for recorded programs so I can't notice the ghosting).

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Legolas is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 02:40 AM
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*Fingers Crossed*

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chimaera is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 11:58 AM
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chimaera
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quote:
Originally posted by HX|
It also happens on other boxes - Pioneer DBR T500GB, Pace DTR-735, Philips DTX-6370.


I have a very early Philips DTX-6370 and I haven't missed a single recording due to an IR problem in several months. There are also some new IR codes in 2.5.5 which may help.

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HX| is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 02:29 PM
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I have a very early Philips DTX-6370 and I haven't missed a single recording due to an IR problem in several months. There are also some new IR codes in 2.5.5 which may help.


There are two models of 6370 (well, 2 revisions), plus the 6371 - all of which seem to use slightly different timings, then the pace DTR-735 (NOT original 730) is slightly faster, and finally the Pioneer which is faster than them all, and as I say medium/slow don't work for it (20005), only fast. I expect it's a testing/QA issue - tivo tested the codes on one philips box (either original or revised 6370 or a 6371) and assume it worked exactly the same for the rest of the boxes. This along with the pause the TIVO introduces when starting/ending a recording a channel would definitely explain it - and multiple boxes in circulation untested by tivo would explain why some people have no problems and other people do.

Wonder how tivo will cope with the new FTA DTT Pace box next month? ;>

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GarySargent is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 03:06 PM
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This isn't true - there are different codes for different makes of ITV Digital box. The Philips boxes use 20004 and 20012 (IIRC), I think the Pace one uses 20001.

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HX| is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 06:50 PM
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This isn't true - there are different codes for different makes of ITV Digital box. The Philips boxes use 20004 and 20012 (IIRC), I think the Pace one uses 20001.

Sorry, what I meant was to test on one of each BRAND of OD box. Like there are three revisions of the philips box, the pace has the 730 and the 735, etc etc - I've not checked but I don't know if the tivo even has codes for the sony or toshiba boxes.

Basically what I was saying is tivo created the codes for one revision of the philips box then expected them to work identically on all 3 revisions - and by some people having problems and others not, I'd guess thats where the problems lie (Mr X says he's having trouble with his philips, MR Y says he is fine etc - neither of them report which revision of philips box they have, I'm sure you can see what I'm saying).

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GarySargent is offline Old Post 02-18-2002 07:02 PM
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This is possible I guess but I think we've been down that route before and nothing came of it - people with exactly the same boxes had different behaviour. It seems to be more external sources that affect things - like lights and glass cabinets.

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Legolas is offline Old Post 02-19-2002 04:48 PM
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Well this is interesting.

I had a Pace 730 ITV Dig box delivered this am, all day playing and still exactly the same problem as my Nokia, changes channel no problem unless recording, I was not to happy as you can imagine.

So in my frustration I unplugged the IR Emitter and pointed both box's at each other using the TiVos front blaster, it now seems flawless. Went back to the emitter, problem started again, returned to the front blaster, everything seems ok.

Do I have a faulty IR Emiiter lead? Does the Emitter introduce a timing error? Is that TiVo at fault?

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Legolas is offline Old Post 02-20-2002 09:22 AM
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Well for the first time, the TiVo has succesfully recorded all its suggestions and the 5 manual tests overnight without missing a beat using the front ir blaster.

One thing I've noticed, it seems to make the change slightly later from the front blaster (The recoding shows the full channel change), could this be it? Strange problem though, I'd be interested to find out why it dosen't work with the IR Emitters, I'll have a new set sent and see if that helps, if not, maybe 2.55 will, but at least I can now rely on it.

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topbanana is offline Old Post 02-20-2002 10:46 AM
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Just for absolutee paranoia's sake, are you quite sure the front blaster (wow, what a cool name for part of a product, I want a front-blaster for my car!) is disabled when using the emitter leads? It's not suddely working because the STB's getting a signal from a single source where it previously was getting a mix of direct signals from the emitter and reflected signals from the front blaster ?

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Legolas is offline Old Post 02-20-2002 10:51 AM
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As sure as I can be, I have always made sure its set to be disabled when using the Emitter and even rebooted the TiVo to make sure.

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TimmyB is offline Old Post 02-21-2002 03:25 AM
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TimmyB
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quote:
Originally posted by Legolas
Can we suggest the idea of a pause, I am certain this would cure the problem.

Ultimately I am sure that its the nokia box at fault, but the problem is introduced when the TiVo starts to record, so a user defined length of pause from the channel change, to the start of recording would be great.



Not as far as my experience goes, when my Nokia refuses to change the channel nothing stops it. I have recordings of the "42" appearing when trying to change to E4 but the Nokia just ignores it...

I've even tried using the remote to no avail, it just repeats the numbers back at me on screen and sticks to it's channel.

... then again, what do you expect from a box with a reset button on it..

Tim

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Legolas is offline Old Post 02-21-2002 04:37 PM
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Legolas
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Talking

<Sound of Angels>

V2.55 has sorted all my problems, the Pace box is now fine with the IR Emitter, and is sooooo fast when starting, stopping recording and scheduling etc.

I am now a very happy TiVo owner.



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Scott is offline Old Post 02-25-2002 07:09 PM
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Unhappy Nokia Black Screen Problem Info.

Ok, so I also have a Nokia ITV Digital STB and i am experiencing the same BLACK screen problems.
The Moderator may have a point actually about the box doing some form of housekeeping at exactly the same second (on the hour) that the Tivo asks it to change channel, however, while that may explain the first digit of the two digit channel numbers being ignored by the STB, it does not really excuse the blacking out.

Last summer the STB was constantly crashing (sometimes 6 times a day) but only whilst viewing ITV or ITV2. From information gleaned over the net, it seemed that it was an issue with the text informatiuon they were broadcasting resulting in a still frame being recorded. The issue resolved itself towards the end of last year. Suddenly a similar problem appears with ITV & ITV2 again, but this time totally blacking out the screen. Upon calling (useless) ITV digital, they have admitted thay it is likely to be an issue regarding the Millionaire interactive service on ITV2. I was told i would just have to live with it until they resolved it. This is obviouly creating havoc for TiVo customers. My TiVo changed to ITV2 as a suggestion on the 2nd day of my holiday and my entire two weeks away recording schedule was programmes of BLACK! I am seriously considering De-Listing ITV & ITV2 from my preferences to avoid this happening again until it is solved. I would encourage all other TiVo customers to do the same and advise ITV Digital so they may finally wake up and do something about it.

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clivegriffiths is offline Old Post 02-25-2002 08:12 PM
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Re: Nokia Black Screen Problem Info.

quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Ok, so I also have a Nokia ITV Digital STB and i am experiencing the same BLACK screen problems.



Scott, I haven't got TiVo yet, but I've got an ITV Digital Nokia box and for the past few months I've had the black screen problem too. I mainly found it happened on Sky One and occasionally on E4. I'd switch over, and within about 10-20 seconds the screen would go blank. If I just selected the channel number again it wouldn't change and I'd have to change to another channel and then back to Sky One to get it back. Anyway this was a pretty regular-ish occurence until about 2 weeks ago when my digi box had a message on screen say that it needed to be updated. Anyway, post update it seems to have sorted itself out and also its seems more responsive too. Does anyone know whether all the Nokia boxes have had this update or is it being sent out like tivo 2.55. If this is the case, perhaps once everyone is updated the black screen problem might be solved at least?

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GarySargent is offline Old Post 02-25-2002 09:59 PM
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I used to get the black screen once in a blue moon on my Philips ITV digital box - not seen it for ages though.

DOH! Why did I say that?!

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