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>>> Using Digiguide to set manual recordings via TiVo web <<<

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dialanothernumb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 09:51 AM
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dialanothernumb
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Registered: Dec 2002
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Posts: 264

Using Digiguide to set manual recordings via TiVo web

This sounds a bit silly but... I don't find tivoweb a hugely easy interface. To record a programme it's a little clunky (although a lot easier than using the remote if you want to search)

However, I have the Digiguide PC based EPG, which I use to record radia via a DAB card. Digiguide has very useful markers which are like macros, driven from a rightclick menu.
This thread was started as a proposal for ideas which were subsequently debated. An approach that delivered this was developed by Paul Webster (Thanks!) and tested by myself. I have edited to bring files needed to the front of this thread:
Big thanks to Paul Webster, who developed Dabdig, a script linked to Digiguide markers, there is now a release of dabdig that will set a manual recording in tivoweb, from a right click on a programme in the Digiguide EPG.

What's needed are:
Subscription to Digiguide
DABDig
Tivoweb
Manrec Manual Recording module by Chris Wingert for Tivoweb

You will need to set digiguide with the channel id's assigned by the TiVo. To get these Channel IDs, fire up Tivoweb and click on User Interface > Channel Guide > All, then View Source, and save as a text file.

Recordings and behaviour are exactly as seen with the Manual Record module. This is NOT a practical replacement for the subscription service, simply an automation of the one-off recording method on Tivoweb.

Most markers on Digiguide fire up a specified tme before a programme starts. You can modify this so that the recording is set up immediately by using this scripting add-in with this .ini file:



[DigiGuide]

[OnProgramme]

[ReminderFired]

[Start]

[End]

[OnNow]

[ChannelMenu]

[ProgrammeMenu]
menu0=Schedule immediately via DABDig
Command0=wscript dabdig.vbe "record"




Thanks are also due to the developers of TiVoweb and its excellent module, ManRec!

Last edited by dialanothernumb on 11-13-2003 at 01:51 PM

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pahunt is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 10:09 AM
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pahunt
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1526

A quick look on the digiguide website tells me that it's probably possible although it would all hinge on being able to get Visual C++ to talk to Tivoweb.

An interesting idea though

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dialanothernumb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 11:17 AM
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dialanothernumb
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I was going to talk to a guy called Paul Webster who came up with Dabdig, which exploits the DG markers to control DVB and DAB PC devices. But as you say, the issue is the conversion to TCL.

Anyway, if I make progress, I'll report back.

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pahunt is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 11:30 AM
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pahunt
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Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1526

Thinking about it you may not need to actually get involved with TCL at all, it may be possible to just send http messages to TivoWeb and get it to do the actual work. I believe that this is how Sanderton's Windows based softpad worked so he may be able to enlighten you further.

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sanderton is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 12:17 PM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

I think using Digiguide data to set a manual recording on TiVo is verging on (if not actually) service theft, at least as defined on this forum.

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Stuart

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pahunt is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 12:21 PM
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pahunt
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1526

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
I think using Digiguide data to set a manual recording on TiVo is verging on (if not actually) service theft, at least as defined on this forum.


Really I'm not really sure I understand why though. I don't see how it differs that much in principal from looking up a program in a newspaper and setting a manual recording via Tivoweb.

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iankb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 12:39 PM
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iankb
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 4051

quote:
Originally posted by pahunt
I don't see how it differs that much in principal from looking up a program in a newspaper and setting a manual recording via Tivoweb.


Because, quite simply, it reduces the value of the subscription and, therefore, can potentially reduce the income for TiVo.

Ian.

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pahunt is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 12:45 PM
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pahunt
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1526

Yes if you took a project like this to it's logical conclusion I can see that it could be used as a way of bypassing a subscription, but I have to admit that I hadn't really thought of it in that way.

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dialanothernumb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 01:16 PM
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dialanothernumb
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Service theft?

I thought that was where you used data provided by TiVo/tribune without paying for it.

Providing an alternative method for programming a TiVo using external data would hardly be similar in scope or depth to the service on a tivo. Oh well. Better stop using digiguide/Radio Times/back of the newspaper then!

Anyway, I guess what I do with my TiVo is best left undiscussed IFthis approach is seen as service theft by Gary or David.

(edited to emphasize the word "if" in the last sentence!)

Last edited by dialanothernumb on 11-05-2003 at 01:31 PM

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sanderton is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 01:27 PM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

I think this is borderline. But the step from clicking on an item in Digiguide to record it, to using Digiguide's intelligent seaches to provide Wishlist/SP functionality without having to pay for a sub, is a very small one in technical terms.

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Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

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dialanothernumb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 01:28 PM
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dialanothernumb
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quote:
Originally posted by iankb
Because, quite simply, it reduces the value of the subscription and, therefore, can potentially reduce the income for TiVo.

Ian.



Two issues here, one is whether such a mechanism can be dabated in the forum and the other is whether this is service theft. My take on whether it's service theft is as stated above, but on the first issue, this forum is supported by TiVo, so I could quite understand why this view might be the one TiVo might take.

However: I have a lifetime sub on one machine and a recently started monthly sub on another. To me, this approach would give me only the functionality to make manual recordings (automated). No listings, no season passes, no wishlists. These are the facilities which set the TiVo service apart from an unsubbed box... not the ability to schedule a timed manual recording which comes out of the (unsubbed) box or the subbed box.

I certainly wouldn't get into a fight about this (but I am slightly annoyed at this approach being called service theft!) because I am merely a guest on someone else's board

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dialanothernumb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 01:29 PM
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dialanothernumb
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quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
I think this is borderline. But the step from clicking on an item in Digiguide to record it, to using Digiguide's intelligent seaches to provide Wishlist/SP functionality without having to pay for a sub, is a very small one in technical terms.


As is the step from using Turbonet to explore mfs and using a certain ftp program to extract from mfs....

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iankb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 01:32 PM
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iankb
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 4051

Given that TiVo Inc did not disable manual programming on the Series 1, then this is probably Service Avoidance rather than Service Theft. If TiVo's T&C's prevented the use of the TiVo without a subscription, then this sort of hack could be treated as Service Theft.

I still think that the forum owner might see it as a banned subject, simply because TiVo Inc might not like the potential loss of subscription income. This is for the Forum Administrators to decide.

Ian.

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dialanothernumb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 01:38 PM
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dialanothernumb
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Registered: Dec 2002
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Talking

"Service Avoidance!" Fair enough...

Actually, no, not fair enough.. blinking ridiculous! Let's give some of these terms a decent meaning.
It's service theft if you somehow get the data and service from TiVo without paying for it.
It's service avoidance, if you effectively receive the same service as the Tivo sub offers but from an alternative source
or it's purely automating the way you use the data input to the manual recording.
I agree that if TiVo had disabled the man/rec facility and sold it as a sub-based box only, then avoidance and theft would be the only issues here. But they didn't.

Hmm.. I've just reported my post to raise the issue with the mods.

Last edited by dialanothernumb on 11-05-2003 at 01:44 PM

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sanderton is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 01:38 PM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

quote:
Originally posted by dialanothernumb
I am slightly annoyed at this approach being called service theft!


No offense inteded, that's just what using 3rd party listing to control the TiVo is called around here. Just like video insertion is called extraction.

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

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dialanothernumb is offline Old Post 11-05-2003 01:48 PM
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dialanothernumb
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Thanks for putting it in that way Stuart, I guess I am feeling a bit jumpy about this as I have steered as straight a course as I could on this forum!

As with anyone who likes their TiVo, I'm happy to keep the company interested in the UK, despite the lack of any reason to believe they are!

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dialanothernumb is offline Old Post 11-06-2003 10:27 AM
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dialanothernumb
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Well, I've reported this thread to the mods and heard nothing back, so I'm assuming for now that it's okay to continue discussing this...
I'll report back if and when there's progress.

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shanew is offline Old Post 11-07-2003 10:09 AM
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shanew
Member

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Posts: 151

I quite like this idea, usually I'm flicking through the freeserve tv guide then changing to tivoweb to search, select, record then check the conflicts...

I also agree that using it to make manual recordings may be too close to service theft, but if the program just did a tivoweb search (which included the time and date). It could then take you straight to the conflicts page i.e. It wouldn't work without guide data and it wouldn't be a manual recording so it could then be accessed by endpad (which i think doesn't touch manual recordings).

Shane.

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bobnick is offline Old Post 11-07-2003 02:15 PM
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bobnick
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It seems a great idea. I've paid for a Tivo sub, and the listing data has a number of continual faults* that really annoy me - why shouldn't I be able to pay for additional listings to help out my poor PVR? If I didn't subscribe, there'd be no guide data and no titles, so it would be really hard to navigate Now Playing - can't see anyone cancelling an existing sub as a result!

* such as a "Harry Hill" wishlist not recording "Harry Hills' TV Burp", multiple CD:UK's recorded, some 'revisited' programmes being given their own SP (Jamie's Kitchen, some episodes of Location) whereas others are stuck in the main one (Grand Designs) etc - a digiguide util will cut down the time I need to spend on Tivo maintenace, which would be a big help.

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sanderton is offline Old Post 11-07-2003 03:33 PM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
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Posts: 4390

To make a "HARRY HILL" wishlist record Harry Hill's TV Burp, edit it to be:

"HARRY HILL"*

Always set names up like that with a star, or apostrophes will prevent a match.

I'm working on module at the moment which does this the other way around - it checks the To Do List against Digiguide and tells you if there's a possible error.

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Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

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>>> Using Digiguide to set manual recordings via TiVo web <<<

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