Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 305

Microsoft starts selling viewer profiles

And so it begins...............
http://www.msnbc.com/news/670796.asp?0dm=B18SB

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Andy

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

Using the profile without identifying the individual is a good thing IMHO.

Not much different than the profile Tivo has on all of us. I'd like to see them substitute the standard commercials with ones taylored to my profile while still keeping me annonymous. I might sloww down the FF for a minute if the commercials were of interest to me.

Xaa

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Chicago,IL,USA
Posts: 267

No, this is not the same thing.

Tivo aggregates their data. All a parter will know is that some number of people in a zipcode watched certain programs. Overall, this is harmless, and may even be helpful in keeping nice programs on the air.

What Microsoft is doing is keeping individual profiles, but 'anonymizing' them to partners. So, they know all about what *you* are watching, what ads you clicked on, what websites you visited, etc. They sell this detailed profile to a partner, but leave your name off.

So, you get all the pitches anyway. What's worse, the term "digital silouette" was pioneered by doubleclick, who has techniques to match this to real-world data, to ultimately match the silouette to a person. They were forced to abandon plans to sell "un-anonymized" data collected this way, but it's still a Very Bad Thing. PV

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 206

quote:

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Originally posted by pv:
What Microsoft is doing is keeping individual profiles, but 'anonymizing' them to partners. So, they know all about what *you* are watching, what ads you clicked on, what websites you visited, etc. They sell this detailed profile to a partner, but leave your name off.

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 1439

The profile is stored locally on the machine just like your personal Tivo Data. It's not much different.

As long as your personal info is kept anonymous, it's no big deal.

Xaa

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 3

quote:

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Originally posted by Xaa:
The profile is stored locally on the machine just like your personal Tivo Data. It's not much different.

As long as your personal info is kept anonymous, it's no big deal.

Xaa

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 0

quote:

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Originally posted by Xaa:
As long as your personal info is kept anonymous, it's no big deal.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Braden:
...one of the big differences between Ultimate TV and TiVo is the whole Internet/WebTV Integration with the DVR. So they're not only getting your TV viewing data, but they're also tracking all of your Web surfing and passing that data on as well.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 119

quote:

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Originally posted by arjay:
Even though TiVo offers an opt out of their anonymous data collection I really have no way of knowing what they might or might not actually do.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Noblesville, IN
Posts: 5

quote:

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Originally posted by dd9:
If they leave your name off, how do they know what *you* are watching?

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quote:

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Originally posted by rbird:
Originally posted by arjay:
Even though TiVo offers an opt out of their anonymous data collection I really have no way of knowing what they might or might not actually do. Maybe you can't, but there are enterprising young hackers who will (and have).

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Good for them. What does that have to do with me? I'd tend to trust TiVo, Inc. more than any hacker. (Even Otto!) Is your point made to support TiVo by the cleverness of its hackers or am I missing something?

My original point had to do with not having to think about it at all.

[This message has been edited by arjay (edited 12-13-2001).]

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Registered: Dec 2001
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http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,49028,00.html

""Isn't it illegal to track what kids purchase?" Rick Whalens, a CompUSA shopper, wondered. "Is permission to track my kids going to be buried in the longwinded product license that I have to agree to before I can use the product I just purchased?"

Oddo said Predictive's service does not track children.


"We can detect the LIKELIHOOD that children are watching TV BASED ON THE TYPE OF PROGRAM BEING VIEWED AND HOW THE REMOTE CONTROL IS BEING USED," Oddo said. "And we have never provided ads or content that was targeted to children."

Vince said that if the company is not collecting personally identifiable information, they are not violating the provisions of the Federal Government in the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA), or the Cable Communications Policy Act of 1984, both aimed toward protecting children's' privacy.

Oddo said that besides telling the age of a viewer, Predictive can also infer what type of content you are interested in, the likelihood that you will be RECEPTIVE TO CERTAIN KINDS OF ADVERTISING, and can figure out –- at least to some degree -- the DEMOGRAPHICS of the viewers such as household income and marital status.
"

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The Barbarians are at
the Gate

[This message has been edited by FTT (edited 12-13-2001).]

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Registered: Dec 2001
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"I'd tend to trust TiVo, Inc. more than any hacker."

And I'd tend to trust Enron, Inc. more than any government regulator.

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The Barbarians are at
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Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:

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Originally posted by Braden:
You have to realize one of the big differences between Ultimate TV and TiVo is the whole Internet/WebTV Integration with the DVR. So they're not only getting your TV viewing data, but they're also tracking all of your Web surfing and passing that data on as well. Plus, they might be pulling your name off of the profile, but what potentially identifying data (address, e-mail, etc.) are they including in the data that they are selling? Between this and Microsoft's "Passport" crap, I have my reasons to avoid them as much as possible.

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quote:

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Originally posted by FTT:
"I'd tend to trust TiVo, Inc. more than any hacker."
And I'd tend to trust Enron, Inc. more than any government regulator.

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Registered: Dec 2001
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"Um, what's your point?"

My point is that the only counterbalance to unfettered profit motive of any corporation is government regulation.

Enron is the result of no government oversight. The Cato screamers and the Friedmanites have effectly destroyed the watchdogs:
http://www.thenewrepublic.com/121701/chait121701.html

TiVo cannot be trusted to police itself just as Microsoft cannot be trusted to police itself. Unfortunately, Congress has laid down and rolled over as demonstrated by the "Banking Privacy" act.

Your personal information is now, by default, the corporate property - i.e. asset - of any corporation you do business with.


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The Barbarians are at
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quote:

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Originally posted by FTT:

My point is that the only counterbalance to unfettered profit motive of any corporation is government regulation.

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Registered: Dec 2001
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"I don't necessarily disagree with you. The devil is, of course, in the details."

touche

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The Barbarians are at
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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 3582

quote:

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Originally posted by arjay:
If I had to think about it I'd probably decide to either not worry about it or not use a service which requires a phoneline or internet connection.

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Personal sidenote: the phone connection was the most compelling reason why I didn't get involved in DiVX players. Yet I now own three TiVos and have given three more to family.

And I bought them all at Circuit City, the promoter of DiVX.

Hacker investigations into the data and TiVo's attitude toward hackers gives me reason to trust TiVo. I worry more about my cable company tracking what I watch through the digital cable box, which clearly can transmit information back to them through the necessary cable connection.

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quote:

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Originally posted by HTH:

Hacker investigations into the data and TiVo's attitude toward hackers gives me reason to trust TiVo.

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