Registered: May 2001
Location: Pompton Lakes, NJ USA
Posts: 878

Did Andrew go through some conversion process and all of a sudden likes women? Um.... HELLOOOOOO.. They really ruined his character.

If they couldn't get SMG, they shouldn't have done it. Jeez.. Dawn would have been a better character to relay Buffy's feelings... would have been more believable as a sister defending her sister.

But as seems to be what happened on Season 7 of buffy, when Joss wanted to have a show about something (ala Tara being the image of the first and poss. coming back) and then that actor/person didn't come back to be on the show, he is unable to bounce back from that and can't change it to be something different than his original "vision" without ruining it.

It would have been better to just have been about Illyria and Wes. And poor Barbara Bain's daughter (cant think of her name just now)... only a couple lines....

Edit: Juliette Landau!!! :-)

Last edited by NJChris on 05-07-2004 at 05:51 AM

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 5685

Andrew was always confused.

When he seemingly lusted after Warren and (to a lesser extent) Jonathan, he was expressing feelings of affection, much more than sexual attraction. He wanted to emotionally bond with the guys and was not (necessarily) sexually attracted to them--they were the only people who would give him the time of day and he sort of "imprinted" on them.

Lonely people can be VERY confused and come across as exceedingly needy. Remember when Andrew and Spike motorcycled to that Abbey near the end of the Buffy series? He was more pathetic than anything else.

So like he said..."it's called 'change'. You guys should try it sometime."

Living amongst the slayerettes has worked wonders on him!

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 348

I agree with SparkleMotion's assessment. I always got the impression that Andrew was searching for either a father-figure or a role model, and was starved for attention, even affection, but that it never seemed sexual. And his very James Bondian exit was great to see. I saw a man of confidence and presence emerge from a geeky boy. Whether he was heterosexual or not was beside the point.

As an aside, I've read interviews with the writers, maybe it was JW even, that the characters of the Troika were closest to being themselves. So perhaps Andrew's fate was a little wish fulfillment on their part.

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Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 3145

I don't think we've heard the last of The Immortal. I suspect he's got a significant role to play in this Apocalypse. If he was just going to be a one-shot, never-seen character, there was no need for him to be half of the episode. I'm betting that Angel and Spike are going to have to swallow their pride and ASK for help from the Immortal in order to fend off this impending Apocalypse.

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: San Carlos, CA
Posts: 155

I disagree -- I think it would be a real deus-ex-machina to introduce some guy two episodes before the end and then expect him to play a major role in the big apocalypse. I thought The Immortal was mostly a comic relief plot device -- we never saw him, and most of what we heard about him was that he's really amazing in bed.

As far as his being half of the episode, I am reminded of Buffy's "The Zeppo", where Buffy and Giles and Willow were fighting some horrible demon coming out of the hellmouth, but we only saw bits and pieces of it, because the episode focused on Xander and the zombies. This week's Angel episode was about Angel and Spike dealing with the fact that they have lost Buffy, and The Immortal was off on the sidelines, causing events to move forward but not directly seen or focused on.

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Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 3145

Yes, but what convinces me that we'll encounter him again is that at the end, it was The Immortal (and not the Rome office of Wolfram & Hart) that delivered the head to Angel's office. In effect, the Immortal has already had an impact on the Apocalypse, because the discussion earlier in the episode had been that failing to get that head returned could be a triggering apolocalyptic event, because of the demon war that would ensue. The Immortal short-circuited that - and yanked Angel's and Spike's chains in the process. The Buffyverse/Angelverse is built on deus ex - the entire long story arc of Angel has been nothing but deus ex. Why should the grand finale be any different?

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 5685

Nah--the only reason The Immortal returned the head was to show--yet again, apparently--he is (and always will be) better than them at certain things...perhaps all things!

It's strictly comic relief, IMO.

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Registered: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 2525

The Immortal - very slick, irresistible to women, not really a good guy but not totally evil either, playing his own game for his own reasons.

I've figured it out! The Immortal is really:

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)

---

Bill Clinton!

---

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Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 122

I agree that it should not have been the third to last episode, but I did laugh out loud quite a bit.

"Buffy would never go out with a centuries old guy with whom it's not clear if he's good or evil."

(Ok, my quote is terribly inaccurate, but it was hysterical!)

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Registered: Oct 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 63

LOL at Spike's "...be Happy... But not too happy, 'cause then I'd have to stake yeh!"

We too enjoyed Amy Acker's Fred/Illyria change-off. Reminded me of Willem DaFoe's conversation with the Goblin/Himself in Spiderman.

Best line:
Angel: "Did he hurt you?"
Darla: "Not until I asked him to."

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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 219

Anyone else keep picturing Christopher Walken as 'The Continental' from SNL whenever 'The Immortal' was mentioned? LOL.

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Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Seal Beach, CA
Posts: 1630

So, I finally got a chance to watch this (thanks again to David Platt for letting me download it from him), and while I agree that the tone of the ep was a little off - considering its placement towards the end of the series - I still enjoyed it very much.

Amy Acker continues to amaze me. I was very impressed when she first "became" Illyria because she was able to do so convincingly and make us completely forget about Fred. But in this ep she was simply astounding how she effortlessly shifted from one character to the next, especially considering how much she had to modulate her voice (her Illyria voice is much lower than Fred's) and mannerisms. Very impressive indeed. It also showed me how much I miss Fred (who used to absolutely bug me).

The whole Buffy/Italy plotline was a bit contrived, but also a nice counterpoint to what Wes was going through at home. I thought Spike and Angel's interplay was hilarious, and I was a *big* fan of whoever played the head of the Rome branch of W&H - as well as her ... ahem... accessories.

Yes, the ep was a bit overboard in the farce/comedy department, but as has been pointed out on this board before, Joss loves to throw in these light-hearted eps before taking a very dark turn (which, after watching the 5/12 ep back to back, he apparently is doing for the finale).

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