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TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 > Underground Playground > TiVo Upgrade Center
>>> Upgrade did not expand capacity <<<

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 01:26 AM
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mr396
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Upgrade did not expand capacity

I have Series 2 Tivo originally with a 40hr single drive system. I upgraded it to a single drive 80GB and then later added a second 120GB drive to take it up to 232hrs of recording capacity all using the tools supplied in this forum. This has worked great and appreciate the work everyone provided to make this so simple. I am now replacing the 80GB drive(the "A" drive) with a 120GB to make it a 2 drive system with a total of 240GB of recording capacity.

I followed all the Hinsdale instructions using Upgrade Config #4 From a Dual drive system to a New A drive and preserve recordings. I used the dd command (like it stated in the instructions). It did copy 80GB drive over to the 120GB just fine saying 76,xxx records in as well as out. I put both drives back in Tivo to test it out and it worked. I then put both drives back in the PC to expand the capacity and marry the drives by using the mfsadd -x command. This is where I run into a snag. For some reason it gives me a message saying there is nothing to add. The exact message is "Current estimated standalone size is 223 hrs - Nothing to add!" The only two drives in the PC at the time were the two 120Gb drives. When I boot-up using MFStools with the two drives in the PC it correctly reports the size of both drives as 120GB so it does not appear to be a matter of a locked drive.

Can anyone tell me what to do here to expand the capacity to use all 240GB? Is there a max number of upgrades you can do in Series 2 Tivo's?

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 02:21 AM
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Robert S
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The partition table on the A drive is full. There's nothing you can do about this if you want to keep your recordings.

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 11:58 AM
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Thanks Robert for the reply, although not quite the answer I was hoping for.

Is the table full because I have done a couple of upgrades already? Would using the pdisk utility as decribed in Post #7 of Fixes be able to expand the partition table or am I totally out of luck and have to erase all the recordings?

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 02:56 PM
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Robert S
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There are 16 entries in the TiVo partition table. There are 9 system partitions on a TiVo A drive. MFS partitions are added in pairs, so there's room for three pairs of MFS partitions on an A drive.

Originally TiVoes had only one pair on the A drive, meaning you could expand twice. Late in the Series 1 run, they started putting two pairs on the A drive, which is a problem if you want to expand the A drive more than one.

MFS Tools is smart enough to move partitions to the B drive when copying to two new drives if you use the -l or -x option, but you already have a B drive, so you would have to copy your two current drives to two new ones, which I don't think is an option.

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-24-2004 08:25 PM
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mr396
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Thanks for being patient with me.

I am starting to understand, I guess. There is no way to keep the same partitions, and expand them or the MFS media 2 partition to cover the rest of the 40Gb delta?

If I did copy the two current drives over, what process would I use? Would I follow Hinsdale instructions and use Upgrade Config #5 then?

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 02:08 AM
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Robert S
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Yes, if you just copy the two current drives to two new ones (with -x on the restore side), MFS Tools will try and reallocate the partitions to make room to expand the A drive again.

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 01:30 PM
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mr396
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Robert - One more question and I appreciate the help. Thanks.

Can I dd command to copy the contents of the 120GB "A" drive(tha's the new drive in the Tivo as the "A" drive that never got expanded) back to the old 80GB "A" drive since the 120GB drive never expanded capacity beyond the 80GB capacity? I can then re-use this drive and another 120GB drive to do the copy over to two new drives as you stated above. Will this work?

Oh by the way, when I do a mfsbackup it does the scan of the drives as says there is a 39 hr, and 80 hr, and a 223 hr, then then it states it is doing the 39hr backup. Is what it should be doing?

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 03:06 PM
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Robert S
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Yes, copying the drive back should be fine.

When you make a compressed backup with -s, the upgrade partitions are dropped. When you do a pipe transfer with -Ta, all the partitions are included in the backup.

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 03:44 PM
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mr396
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Just so I do not mess up.

When I do the backup command as listed in Hinsdale such as the one below:
mfsbackup -f 9999 -6so /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdc /dev/hdb

I need to change this to
mfsbackup -f 9999 -Ta /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdc /dev/hdb

and this should back everything up? Is there a listing of what the various options and what they mean/do?

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 04:28 PM
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Robert S
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You missed out the -o, but anyway, that would result in a backup as big as your drive set. Unless you have 200Gb of space on a drive with a filing system that's writable under Linux and supports files larger than 4Gb, that might be a problem.

A more practical approach would be to use Hinsdale's method for copying two drives to two new drives:

mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdW /dev/hdX | mfsrestore -s 127 -xpi - /dev/hdY /dev/hdZ

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 05:14 PM
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mr396
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The fog is starting to lift. I appreciate the help, the quick response, and being patient with me. I just want to make sure I do this correct and not mess anything up.

Based on this, I would am guessing I can skip Hinsdale Steps 7-9 and go to directly to step 10 and do the Upgrade Config #5 steps. Is this correct? This will copy and expand all the data from the two original drives to the two new drives in one step. I would need to use the floppy boot-up disk to be able to connect all four drives up

Should I make a backup first onto a different drive, just in case? Would I use the commands in Hinsdale Step 7 using the Option#2 (backing up a two drive Tivo?). I guess this is where I could also use
mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdW /dev/hdX (would I need a drive equal to the same size to back this up?)

or could use

mfsbackup -f 9999 -6Tao /dev/hdW /dev/hdX (to compress it some?)

I would like a backup image just in case I mess something up or one of the hard drives go bad.

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 05:18 PM
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How can the Hinsdale instructions get updated to let people know what to do when they have already upgraded their "A" drive once and filled their partition table up.

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 07:02 PM
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Robert S
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If you want to suggest improvements to the Hinsdale guides, I'm sure hinsdale would be very happy to get a PM from you. I think you over estimate the scope that he's aiming for, though - the document is already intimidatingly large, so I think careful consideration is required before adding more special cases.

Anyway, as I said, making a backup with recordings results in a file the same size as your drive set (~200Gb in your case). I would think most people have more space in their TiVo than their PC's, so the question of practicality doesn't really arise. If you have a single volume in your PC with 200Gb free, a further problem is that most filing systems (and operating systems) have a limit of 2 or 4Gb per file. Getting round that means running MFS Tools on something like ext3 under a recent version of Linux. (Alternatively you can backup to stdout and pipe to 'split', which will break the backup into managable chunks - you still need 200Gb free on one volume, though).

If you have all that, note the following: -Ta (some people seem to prefer -aq, but AFAIK, that's the same thing) means 'include all streams', so modifiers like -f and -l, which includes streams that would normally be dropped have no effect (because those streams will be included anyway by -Ta).

Compression is pointless as the recording streams are already heavily compressed and are therefore essentially random data. The reason compression works so well on 'compressed' backups is that vast swathes of the data that ends up in a compressed backup consists of long strings of zeroes. (You'll notice that the difference between -1so and -9so is just 2 or 3 percent - most of the data is either incompressible recording streams or blank).

Therefore, the only practical way, IMO, to backup a TiVo is to use dd or MFS Tools to copy whole drives or drive sets to new drives (which must be at least as large as the originals, naturally).

So, generally, you end up having to work without a backup and just be VERY CAREFUL when working on your drives. You won't lose the TiVo, of course, as you still have a compressed backup, but you might lose the recordings.

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aklock is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 07:12 PM
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quote:
There's no way to keep your recordings AND expand AND remain in a single-drive configuration (although you can do any two of those three things). -Robert S.


Ran into this same issue yesterday. An update would be very helpful to those who are upgrading a second time. I suspect there will continue to be quite a few folks who run into this when replacing an aging drive.

I replaced a flaky 120gb drive with a new 160gb. I wanted to preserve my recordings so I ran into the partition table limitation of a second upgrade. The 160gb is now up and running but of course only indicates 108 hours of capacity.

From what I can gather the only way for my to expand the 160 (or at least the first 137gb of it) and still preserve my recordings would be to add a second drive.

If I add a "B" will the 160 expand to its capacity? I am assuming I could just use the following command from Hinsdale:

mfsadd -x /dev/hdY /dev/hdZ

What is the current thinking about running a 2 drive system? I have run 2 drive systems in the past without incident. But I figured a single drive would be "safer" since there is one less thing to break...

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Mike B is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 07:26 PM
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Mike B
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I'm getting a similar error - have I ran into the same problem?

UK Thomson single drive TiVo (Quantum 40GB)
Added a 15GB 'B' drive a while back.
(Moved from 39hrs to 53hrs capacity)

I've just used 'dd' to copy the 15GB 'B' drive onto a new 40GB quantum (identical to my 'A' drive). Pulled the drives, and tested the new pair - everything works fine, but only 53 hr capacity reported (as expected). Put the drives back into the PC, and did (with 'A' drive as primary master and 'B' drive as primary slave)

'mfsadd -x /dev/hda /dev/hdb'

It just complains:

Current estimated standalone size is 53 hrs
Nothing to add!

If I have hit the same problem, what are my options? (I've only done one upgrade before, so can't see how I could have ran out of partitions......)

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 08:32 PM
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Robert S
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See the 7th post of the Fixes thread above.

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 08:48 PM
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mr396
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Robert thanks again,

Can I do a backup to a drive so that it does not contain the recordings, this way in case something does mess up I have something to recover my Tivo to (ie the OS and base partitions, etc.)

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-25-2004 11:42 PM
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Robert S
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Hinsdale covers making such backups ("compressed" backups) in some detail, as does the Weaknees interactive thingy. I recommend -1so instead of -6so as compression level 1 seems more reliable than level 6 (and, as I mentioned, the size doesn't change much).

You'd normally write such a backup to a FAT partition. It results in a file of a few hundred Mb, which can be written to a CD-R for safe keeping.

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mr396 is offline Old Post 06-26-2004 09:14 PM
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Robert - some more problems

I used dd command to copy the Drve "A" (120GB that never expanded past 80GB) back to the original 80GB Tivo drive "A". I then tested the 80Gb drive out in Tivo and it worked fine. I then plugged all four drives in as follows:

Primary Master: Tivo original "A" drive (80GB)
Primary slave: Tivo orginal "B" (120GB)
Secondary Master: Tivo new "A" (120GB)
Secondary slave: Tivo new "B" (120GB)
I booted up using boot floppy. It recognized all four drives and the correct capacity.

I then type in the command
mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | mfsrestore -s 127 -xpi /dev/hdc /dev/hdd

It started scanning and then gave me the following error message:
Uncompressed backup size 188701MB
Restore Failed: unable to fit backuponto drives

could you help me understand what is going on here?

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Robert S is offline Old Post 06-26-2004 10:35 PM
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Robert S
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It should report the drive sizes in Mb, not Gb. If you can post the output of mfsinfo, that might help too.

You could try -lpi instead of -xpi (that's an L - Arial doesn't distinguish between l I and 1 very well...), although you don't want it to run, I just want to know if it produces an error in that mode.

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