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>>> Pioneer Acknowledging Problems with TIVO DVD-Recorders <<<

 
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dsb is offline Old Post 04-28-2004 06:53 AM
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dsb
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Pioneer Acknowledging Problems with TIVO DVD-Recorders

I am in the process of returning my 2nd Pioneer DVR-810H-S because of intermittent pixelation problems. Like every 2 minutes... I talked with Pioneer "advanced tech" help today and they are now acknowledging problems with ALL their DVR-DVD Recorders including the 57H. Apperently the bit rate they need to record (TIVO) in is not compatible with the bit rate needed to then write to DVD so the result is intermittent pixelation on all the TIVO recording qualities EXCEPT ultra-fine. For some reason, the pixelation does not occur when you TIVO at the highest quality - which means that for the DVR-810H-S you have a 16 hour machine! Pioneer says they are "working on a fix" but at the moment there is none - and there is no guarantee they will have one, but I guess we'll find out sooner or later. Meanwhile, you can call Pioneer yourself, ask for "advanced tech" and find out for yourself if you don't believe me ---- or you eyes. The pixelation is quite annoying and obtrusive...amazing these products were actually released with a problem like this -- unnoticed???

DSB

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macohenks is offline Old Post 04-28-2004 09:07 AM
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macohenks
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Thanks for the update! I'd like to see some public statement on Pioneer's part...many of us who spent $800 or more want some justice.

Why are you returning your machine when there's no fix? It sounds like you're in for more of the same *!**!! and lots of money on shipping, unless they've decided to comp that too, and you're left with a machine that does exactly the same thing.

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dsb is offline Old Post 04-28-2004 09:13 AM
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dsb
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Returning

They told me just to take mine back to Best Buy for a refund. Yes I wish they would post something on their website too.

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DCIFRTHS is offline Old Post 04-28-2004 12:09 PM
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DCIFRTHS
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Re: Returning

Thanks for the information.

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abadan is offline Old Post 04-28-2004 12:28 PM
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abadan
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This is old news.
Pioneer's so called customer service, advanced tech or whatever you want to call them acknowledged this last year (I bought and returned mine during XMAS holidays) and told me exactly what they told you.

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dugbug is offline Old Post 04-28-2004 07:01 PM
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Lol. They always say "we are working on a fix". It gets you off the phone.

This has been their line for many months now.

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Byrus is offline Old Post 04-29-2004 07:57 PM
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Yeah, it's the same old line. I'm trying to return mine too.

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jkovach is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 03:28 AM
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jkovach
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This explanation doesn't make complete sense. If the pixelation only occured when playing back DVDs burned with the unit, I could accept this answer. However the pixelation occurs during playback of programs recorded on the hard drive, as well as with burned DVDs.

I do have a feeling it is a problem with the VBR settings though. I really hope they come out with a software fix.

Jeff

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macohenks is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 03:42 AM
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Fix? I'd say we're all in a fix, "The Big Fix".

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Dan203 is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 05:08 AM
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Dan203
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I've been doing some experimenting, and something has me perplexed about this issue. Based on my rip tests the Pioneer unit records Basic at 320x480 and roughly 1.5Mbps, and Medium at 320x480 and roughly 3Mbps. Those are the exact same resolution/bitrate combinations used by standard Series 2 units! So why is there such a big difference in quality? They all use the same encoder chip, so it can;t be that. And the only difference in the stream is their audio format (SA TiVos record audio at 32KHz/192Mbps/MP2 format, while the Pioneer uses 48KHz/256Mbps/AC3 format) Is it possible that recording AC3 audio taxes the chip to the point of causing video distortion? Or maybe it's something simpler like a bad case design causing the chip to overheat?

If it's the former then I say dump AC3 and go back to MP2. (as long as it's 48KHz it's still legal for DVDs) And if it's the later then I think there should be some sort of recall invoked so that we can get units that work to their full potential.

Dan

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4 TiVo branded Series 2 units
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Note: Two of the above TiVos actually belong to loopey, but I have access to them so I'm counting them

"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye" - loopey
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macohenks is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 05:44 AM
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Dan,

From your discussion, then, I'm inferring that the problem cannot be fixed with software. Is that what you think?

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Dan203 is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 05:54 AM
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Dan203
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I'm not sure. If it's the audio bitrate/format causing the problem then it's very likely they could fix it via software. If it's a heat issue it's possible they could do something like crank up the fan and/or reduce the load on the chip, however it's less likely that it will be a complete fix.

That being said these "explanations" for the problem are just speculation. The only facts I have are that the video resolutions and bitrates are the same. Why the Pioneer has a quality problem at those resolution/bitrate combinations, and regular Series 2 units do not is something only TiVo could know for sure.

Dan

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4 TiVo branded Series 2 units
1 Pioneer 810H Series 2 unit
All with Lifetime
Note: Two of the above TiVos actually belong to loopey, but I have access to them so I'm counting them

"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye" - loopey
"Dan's absolutely correct." - TiVoPony (link)
"Dan's absolutely correct." - TiVoOpsMgr (link)

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macohenks is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 06:06 AM
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macohenks
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It's odd how the "fine" setting is satisfactory...any sort of software adjustment would have to factor in the allotment of recordable space on DVD media. Now we're getting into a conversation where I'll just listen to everyone else!

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Dan203 is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 06:57 AM
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Extreme is less likely to show this problem, but it does still happen. (tends to be more prevelent in sports)

Although, thinking about that, it would seem like it should be the other way arround. When you're recording in Extreme the resolution is doubled and the video bitrate is cranked up to 9.3Mbps. If the chip was struggling it seems logical that it would be more prevelent at the higher bitrates.

With that in mind I honestly can't think of a reason why the Pioneer units would produce worse quality then other TiVo units. I only hope that TiVo can figure it out and can find some way to fix it.

Dan

__________________
Moderator: TiVo Coffee House, Help Center, HD Powered PVRs, Home Media Option & Happy Hour
4 TiVo branded Series 2 units
1 Pioneer 810H Series 2 unit
All with Lifetime
Note: Two of the above TiVos actually belong to loopey, but I have access to them so I'm counting them

"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye" - loopey
"Dan's absolutely correct." - TiVoPony (link)
"Dan's absolutely correct." - TiVoOpsMgr (link)

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>>> Pioneer Acknowledging Problems with TIVO DVD-Recorders <<<

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