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>>> Wireless networking Q <<<

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sanderton is offline Old Post 04-08-2004 06:58 PM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

Wireless networking Q

I am trying to get my house fully networked, but it's a stone built farmhouse with three foot thick internal walls and its causing me some issues.

At present I have a wired network on the ground floor connecting my study with the living room and kids playroom where the the TiVos are.

I want to be able to have network connectivity on the first floor too, but running wires through several enormous stone walls is too much like hard work. However said walls also mean the wireless stuff doesn't have the range.

My idea is this:

I add 802.11g to my current wired network in the study.

In the attic have a repeater directly over the study, and then have further repeaters over each room I want networked (the walls stop at attic floor height). Data from the internet or the TiVos would then route via the adapter in the study to the one in the roof, then sideways from that one to one over the relevant room , then down to an adapter attached to the target device (an XBox, probably).

Would this work? Can a wireless signal "bounce" that many times?

And if so, can anyone tell me what combination of access points, bridges, rouers and game adapters I'm likely to need?

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pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-09-2004 03:26 AM
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pgogborn
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Registered: Nov 2002
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Three foot is a mighty obstacle, but it could be worth do a search on your favourite search engine of "war driving" antenna to review how people use enhanced antenna to boost reception.

Going the attic root is probably the most aesthetically pleasing, but if all rooms where reception is required have an external window, I would be tempted to see if mounting antenna near windows, either externally or internally, can keep the network in-touch (also a possible alternative route for a wired network which would give you the maximum bandwidth for streaming video).

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sanderton is offline Old Post 04-09-2004 04:01 AM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

Listed building; can't do anything external.

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Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

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Automan is offline Old Post 04-09-2004 03:42 PM
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Automan
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: South Coast, Sussex, UK
Posts: 1391

Install a fibre optic 10 Gigabit network.

If a jobs worth doing, its worth doing well

Also immune from hackers and the fibres are so small.

Automan

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iankb is offline Old Post 04-09-2004 04:29 PM
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iankb
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If you have a garden shed with mains power that is in view of the necessary rooms, you could try siting A/P's in the windows and using a repeater A/P in the shed. That would probably use fewer repeaters than your loft.

Of course, you could always move to a nice modern Wimpey estate with timber-frame walls.

Next time I go house-hunting, I will definitely expect to see such things as broadband-connectivity in the house details.

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kitschcamp is offline Old Post 04-09-2004 04:40 PM
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kitschcamp
Tweaked and poked

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In new-builds it is increasingly common to see broadband status from BT or the cable company in the details.

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Sneals2000 is offline Old Post 04-09-2004 10:26 PM
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Sneals2000
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I think that the 54Mbs "g" variant is better at coping with wireless repeating and bridging than the 11Mbs "b" variant?

I had to register the MAC addresses of my Belkin 54g access points (and update the firmware) to get them to talk to each other - but once I did this I was able to bridge my upstairs and downstairs wired networks with no problems.

But I also live in a 70s box - so I doubt there is much attenuation going on!

(The Belkins and a few other access points have two aerials - though I don't know if this is to allow diversity reception or not.)

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iankb is offline Old Post 04-10-2004 01:10 AM
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iankb
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The two aerials are for diversity. It uses the one with the strongest reception. I believe that you can get directional aerials with stronger signals, albeit not for legal use.

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iguru42 is offline Old Post 04-10-2004 01:18 AM
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iguru42
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You might want to consider getting a Linksys WRT54G and loading the firmware from Sveasoft. The Sveasoft firmware allows you to bump the transmit power from 24mw to 84mw. Of course the long term effects on the router of having the transmit power maxed is completely unknown at this time. I've been running mine at 54 with no problems and it gives me an effective range (through a brick building) of 100 yards.

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iankb is offline Old Post 04-10-2004 01:35 AM
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iankb
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If you can up the power by firmware, it sounds like the hardware is designed to handle it, and is artificially limited by local legislation. The only problem with upping the power can be conflicts with the neighbours. My Philips video sender has a very striong signal and no directable aerial. I should imagine that half the neighbourhood watches my TiVo.

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sanderton is offline Old Post 04-10-2004 04:52 AM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

quote:
Originally posted by iankb
If you can up the power by firmware, it sounds like the hardware is designed to handle it, and is artificially limited by local legislation. The only problem with upping the power can be conflicts with the neighbours. My Philips video sender has a very striong signal and no directable aerial. I should imagine that half the neighbourhood watches my TiVo.


Nearest neighbour a mile away so not an issue!

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iankb is offline Old Post 04-10-2004 12:08 PM
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iankb
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I presume that you've looked at networks that are piggy-backed on the mains cabling. Not that my mains is clean enough to use for 'phone connections. How do they get the mains cabling through the 3-foot thick walls?

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kitschcamp is offline Old Post 04-10-2004 01:10 PM
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kitschcamp
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quote:
Originally posted by iguru42
You might want to consider getting a Linksys WRT54G and loading the firmware from Sveasoft. The Sveasoft firmware allows you to bump the transmit power from 24mw to 84mw.


Similar things can be done with the Netgear ME102, but I haven't got the link to hand as it's on my work laptop.

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iankb is offline Old Post 04-10-2004 02:40 PM
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iankb
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Re. the use of mains cabling, this link may of interest. There is also a link to an ADSLGuide review on that page.

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sanderton is offline Old Post 04-11-2004 05:37 AM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

quote:
Originally posted by iankb
I presume that you've looked at networks that are piggy-backed on the mains cabling. Not that my mains is clean enough to use for 'phone connections. How do they get the mains cabling through the 3-foot thick walls?


My mains is a mess; the UPS is forever clicking on on and off and we don't need a complex security alarm as if the outside light trips on all the lights in the house dim. Kinda doubt it could handle a decent throughput - anyway the mains systems I've seen aren't up to streaming video.

"With very long drills" is the answer. I've put CAT5 through one wall - it took me two days and I had to drill using the longest drill bit Homebase sell from both sides and hope I could make the ends meet, a la Channel tunnel! Most of the wiring (and pipework) is on the surface or just buried in the top bit of plaster, going through the walls where there used to be doors or windows or around the doorframes of the existing ones. A fair bit is attached to the outside of the house then buried in render. Fortunately only the central wall is as thick as that - the normal partition type walls are a mere 18 inches to 2ft. It's all very thick because it's rubble stone, not decent stuff - but that tends to have the odd lunp of flint in it which drills just will not go through. Bit of a mare really.

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Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

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GarySargent is offline Old Post 04-11-2004 06:00 AM
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GarySargent
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: W. Yorks, UK
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quote:
Originally posted by iguru42
You might want to consider getting a Linksys WRT54G and loading the firmware from Sveasoft. The Sveasoft firmware allows you to bump the transmit power from 24mw to 84mw. Of course the long term effects on the router of having the transmit power maxed is completely unknown at this time. I've been running mine at 54 with no problems and it gives me an effective range (through a brick building) of 100 yards.


Sounds interesting, but how do the clients talk back unless they too somehow have their power increased?

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iankb is offline Old Post 04-11-2004 02:58 PM
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iankb
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quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
Bit of a mare really.
A country life and technology don't really seem to mix. I think that you should either move to a Docklands penthouse, or start raising pigs.

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ericd121 is offline Old Post 04-11-2004 06:02 PM
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ericd121
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quote:
Originally posted by iankb
A country life and technology don't really seem to mix. I think that you should either move to a Docklands penthouse, or start raising pigs.
I was quite impressed that sanderton's "Nearest neighbour a mile away" yet he can receive ADSL!
Unless, of course, his nearest neighbour is the local exchange...

Sounds like a nice life, actually; Pigs and ADSL or Broadband and Broadbacks.

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pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-11-2004 07:16 PM
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pgogborn
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A rushed visit to the forum just in case you make a Easter Monday shopping trip to buy equipment.

A quick review suggests that even at 2.4 GHZ the cone of silence could be a significant impediment to the solution you suggest if you use standard antenna arrays and orientation.

I will post a fuller and more considered view after the hols.

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sanderton is offline Old Post 04-13-2004 04:19 AM
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sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

quote:
Originally posted by ericd121
I was quite impressed that sanderton's "Nearest neighbour a mile away" yet he can receive ADSL!
Unless, of course, his nearest neighbour is the local exchange...

Sounds like a nice life, actually; Pigs and ADSL or Broadband and Broadbacks.



Ok, it might be 3/4 a mile to the nearest neigbour (a pub. ). And actually we do have three pig sties - vacant at the moment though!

I was somewhat suprised to be able to get broadband too; the local exchange is about two miles or so away on the edge of the nearest town; in this part of Somerset you go from "urban" to extremely rural in the the blink of an eye. If you stand on the brow of the rise at the front of our house and look south west you see the Blackthorn cider factory and the warehouses and light industial estates of Shepton Mallet; if you turn around you see nothing but the Mendip hills and a couple of farmhouses. the hill completely screens out Shepton, so we feel VERY rural!

The broadband was probably helped by an incident two years ago when the local farmer's accuracy at rabbit shooting left something to be desired and he shot out the telephone line half a mile from the house. It was too decrepid to repair, so they ran a new brand one out from the exchange. As they also had to pay me several hundred £ in compensation for loss of service in the month it took to fix, I reckon that BT will start making a profit out of me in about 2034.

The other big advantage to living out here in the wilds is we get our own special allocation of Glastonbury tickets (and a locals only hotline to order them!)

I have The Wurzels on my iPod....

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Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

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