TiVo Community Forum Archive 1
READ ONLY ARCHIVES

Welcome to the TiVo Community Forum Archive
This archive covers threads on TiVo Community Forum that have not been posted to from the start until June 30, 2004.  Any thread that has a post made to it between 7/1/04 and 12/31/05, that had not been posted to, will be found in Archive 2.
This is a READ ONLY site.

  Search | ARCHIVE 2 | MAIN SITE

TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 > Off Topic Areas (Non-TiVo) > UK General Chit-Chat
>>> Wireless networking Q <<<

Pages (2): « Prev 1 [2]  
Forum Jump:
Search this Thread:
Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread ---> Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
sanderton is offline Old Post 04-13-2004 04:22 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for sanderton Visit sanderton's homepage! Find more posts by sanderton Add sanderton to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

quote:
Originally posted by pgogborn
A rushed visit to the forum just in case you make a Easter Monday shopping trip to buy equipment.

A quick review suggests that even at 2.4 GHZ the cone of silence could be a significant impediment to the solution you suggest if you use standard antenna arrays and orientation.

I will post a fuller and more considered view after the hols.



Ah, I hadn't thought of that. Look forward to your post.

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

POST #21 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-14-2004 01:12 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for pgogborn Find more posts by pgogborn Add pgogborn to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pgogborn
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 2045

quote:
Originally posted by GarySargent
Sounds interesting, but how do the clients talk back unless they too somehow have their power increased?

That is why the "war drivers" I referred to above use enhanced antenna.

You can increase the gain of a signal by choosing the right antenna. The increase in gain achieved by "war drivers" applies just as much to the transmission as it does to the reception of signals.

To put it another way, a high gain antenna gives you a double whammy. It increases the power of both the transmitted and received signal. The Sveasoft firmware mod boosts only the transmitted power.

Of course, there are trade-offs involved when relying on a high gain antenna rather than raw transmission power:
a) From the point of viewer of the receiver, you are increasing the noise to signal ratio. The signal you want could be swamped by other signals, pollution from micro-wave ovens etc.
b) From the point of view of both the transmitter and the receiver, the greatest per cent increase in gain is gained at the expense of narrowing the angle of the signal (a.k.a. increasing the 'cone of silence').

It seems to me to be quite a good plan to have a base station with an omni-directional antenna and boosted transmission power (be it via loading Sveasoft type software or other less legitimate circuit board hacks) and clients with directional high-gain antenna.

POST #22 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-14-2004 01:26 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for pgogborn Find more posts by pgogborn Add pgogborn to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pgogborn
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 2045

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
Ah, I hadn't thought of that.

I have got to say my knee-jerk response was that the 2.4 GHz band was allocated to things like Wi-Fi and Video Senders because the 'Cone of Silence' was not a significant issue.

I have been unable to track down high-grade tech-spec sheets that address the issue. However, I have come across a third hand report that reports what I think is a staggering low 50° degree vertical transmission pattern with an omni-directional antenna >
http://alamo.satlug.org/pipermail/s...ber/013032.html

Now, it has to emphasized that the antenna being reported on was a high gain-antenna intended to extend the range of a router. However, the fact that it was omni-directional leads me to believe that even with a standard omni-directional antenna, you could have a blind spot if you locate a client directly below a repeater. You may be able to rely on radiation reflecting objects in the room to scatter the signal and establish a link, but this may considerably decrease the bit-rate achieved.

Interestingly, I now recall that when aligning my 2.4 GHz Video Sender antenna it was very permissive in the horizontal plane but required careful alignment in the vertical plane. However, as I only wanted a one to one link, I purchased a sender that had an antenna that looked as if it was directional rather than omni-directional.

If you have got a high pitched roof that is not thatched (fire risk), perhaps you could mount a single repeater high and centre, orientated horizontally.

Incidentally, I have discovered two other areas where 2.4 GHz is less than optimum:
1) At the frequency some cell-phones work, you can get reception in under-ground trains etc. if you string a "leaky antenna" the length of the tunnel. It would be nice if you could install a leaky antenna all round your house underneath the eaves, but unfortunately it will not work at 2.4 GHz.
2) Broadly speaking, 2.4 GHz boxes should be located close to the antenna - related to 1) above, loss of signal in 2.4 GHz cables is high.

A couple of interesting links >
http://www.swisswireless.org/wlan_calc_en.html
http://www.data-linc.com/pdffiles/i&cs9909.pdf

POST #23 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-14-2004 01:32 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for pgogborn Find more posts by pgogborn Add pgogborn to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pgogborn
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 2045

quote:
Originally posted by iankb
If you have a garden shed with mains power that is in view of the necessary rooms, you could try siting A/P's in the windows and using a repeater A/P in the shed.

I have got to say this would be my preferred solution for a Wi-Fi network, as going horizontal over a greater distance may propagate the signal better than going vertical over a shorter distance.

It also makes it easier to incorporate directional high-gain antenna into the network.

Also, it makes it easier for saddos like me to listen to Internet radio on a lap-top at the bottom of the garden.

However, there may be a reason why 2.4 GHz is allocated to the likes of Video Senders as well as being used by micro-wave ovens.

Micro-wave ovens heat the coffee but not the cup. To put it another way, water molecules absorb (perhaps inefficiently) 2.4 GHz radiation rather than letting it pass through.

To extrapolate from this, heavy rain fall could severely attenuate (reduce) a 2.4 GHz signal - it is thus best used indoors.

Extrapolating still further and wilder, perhaps a 2.4 GHz signal can pass easier through a thick bone dry wall than a thin damp one.

POST #24 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-14-2004 01:41 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for pgogborn Find more posts by pgogborn Add pgogborn to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pgogborn
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 2045

quote:
Originally posted by Automan
Install a fibre optic 10 Gigabit network.


In combination with the three foot internal walls and the long occupation of the house it would certainly give the archaeologist of the future something to think about.

S/he will either have no idea what it was used for, in which case it will be described as being of 'ritualistic significance'.

or

It will be deduced as being expensive in which case the house will be described as belonging to a 'high status individual'.


[Rant Mode]
Why do archaeologists, when they discover gold ornaments in a grave, describe the person buried as being a 'high status individual'?

The person I saw wearing the most gold jewelry was a long time ago when I walked a block too far in Detroit. He was a drug dealer, probably with access to lethal weapons. - perhaps high status in a limited community, but to most a dangerous crook.
[/Rant Mode]


A Grade 1 listing apart, if intending to stream high-quality video, I think cable is the way to go - perhaps installing a ring around the house just below ground level or under the eaves or both with a connection, with entry points through window frames.

POST #25 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

iankb is offline Old Post 04-14-2004 02:22 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for iankb Find more posts by iankb Add iankb to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
iankb
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 4051

Most Wi-Fi access points come with twin diversity aerials nowadays. I usually set one vertical, and one horizontal, and the A/P will choose the aerial with the strongest signal. I would have thought that this would resolve the vertical cone of silence.

__________________
Ian.

For gold text on leather in TiVoWeb, try the redbook, bluebook, greenbook and blackbook themes, now updated with button menus

POST #26 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

cyril is offline Old Post 04-14-2004 06:10 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for cyril Visit cyril's homepage! Find more posts by cyril Add cyril to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
cyril
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: London, Baker St. UK
Posts: 496

If you have windows close by on either side of the three foot stone walls you might be able to get away with using access points positioned there to 'sneak around' the stone. However, I have to open my window to get better range to my roof garden as the windows are quite thick and lead lined.

__________________
TiVo saves you the one thing you can't buy -TIME.

POST #27 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

sanderton is offline Old Post 04-14-2004 10:52 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for sanderton Visit sanderton's homepage! Find more posts by sanderton Add sanderton to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

Sounds like I need to buy a couple of boxes and play!

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

POST #28 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 12:48 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for pgogborn Find more posts by pgogborn Add pgogborn to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pgogborn
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 2045

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
Sounds like I need to buy a couple of boxes and play!

The current (May 2004) issue of PC Pro has a review of access points and routers, but it only includes one box, which as per your original request for info, is specifically sold as a repeater. The repeater it describes, the Buffalo Technology AirStation WLA-G54C Wireless Repeater, as do many repeaters, only has one antenna >
http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Buffal...6-30576840.html

However, many routers have a repeater capability and many of those routers have twin antenna which allow the iankb option of a horizontal and a vertical orientation. Unfortunately not all routers with twin antenna allow them to be detached - which precludes the substitution of an antenna with higher gain.

The spec sheets are very sparse on how twin diversity boxes handle the transmission, rather than the reception of the signal. Do they transmit on both antenna? Do they have to reduce the power to each so that the combined output stays within statutory regulations?

Just in case PC Pro is sold out I will list the recommended buys.

PC Pro Recommended. D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G+ DWL-2000AP
(incorrectly identified as the 200AP by PC PRo)
One fixed external antenna.
Can act as a repeater
>
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=10

PC Pro Recommended (and the one I like the look of) Asus WL-500g Wireless LAN Router
One removable external antenna
One fixed internal antenna
Can act as a repeater
Can attach a USB hard drive so that it acts as a FTP server.
Can act as a print server.
> http://www.asus.com/products/commun...0g/overview.htm


PC Pro Labs Winner (U.S. Robotics Wireless Turbo Access Point and Router
2 removable external antenna
Can NOT act as a repeater
Can act as a print server
>
http://www.usr.com/products/network...asp?sku=USR8054

POST #29 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

sanderton is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:44 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for sanderton Visit sanderton's homepage! Find more posts by sanderton Add sanderton to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

Many thanks pgogborn.

That Asus one looks interesting; the external HD feature has got me thinking I could use it as a video file store in the roof...

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

POST #30 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-16-2004 01:39 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for pgogborn Find more posts by pgogborn Add pgogborn to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pgogborn
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 2045

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
That Asus one looks interesting; the external HD feature has got me thinking I could use it as a video file store in the roof...

The Asus one would be my choice.

I should point out that I believe the USB port is only 1.1.

I bet you (Sanderton) already know, but for the benefit of other people reading this thread, you can often obtain considerable savings by buying a hard drive and USB enclosure separately, rather than buying a ready made combo.

I have also remembered that you mentioned attaching an XBox to the network. I am sure that you would not use a XBox solely as Bill Gates intended, but it is worth pointing out that the Asus is UPnP-enabled, so you would be able to play XBox Live. It is possible that the other routers I listed are NOT UPnP enabled.

POST #31 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

AMc is offline Old Post 04-16-2004 07:54 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for AMc Find more posts by AMc Add AMc to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AMc
Senior Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: London
Posts: 325

FWIW I use two Buffalo WBR54G routers at home - one is connected to the cable modem running firewall and DHCP and the other is used as a bridge for PS2 and a signal repeater for my laptop (DHCP server is disabled).
It works very well allowing the laptop to 'roam' between the two (almost) seamlessly.

There is a socket on the back to attachan external antenna

(today is obviously typo day)

__________________
TeleWest Active Digital - Thomson Tivo 120+30Gb
My settings for TWAD with a Pace 4000 in N16 with a dongle...
PACE|No Leading Zeros|STB enter key NO|Front blaster NO|20004 FAST|wand over the lowest digit stuck out about 1.5cm|mains timer restarts TW every morning

Last edited by AMc on 04-16-2004 at 10:09 PM

POST #32 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

lendavis is offline Old Post 04-16-2004 08:24 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for lendavis Find more posts by lendavis Add lendavis to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lendavis
New Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Alicante Spain
Posts: 27

I use the USR system, if you did not notice in the specs http://www.usr.com/products/network...ecs&sku=USR5450 This range will adjust in software up to 100mw.
As far as I can find out there are no others in this price bracket to compare.
Regards.
Len

POST #33 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

sanderton is offline Old Post 04-16-2004 09:06 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for sanderton Visit sanderton's homepage! Find more posts by sanderton Add sanderton to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

I was thinking that looked good until I saw the price!

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

POST #34 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

lendavis is offline Old Post 04-16-2004 09:40 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for lendavis Find more posts by lendavis Add lendavis to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lendavis
New Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Alicante Spain
Posts: 27

Sorry it's 150mw and get it here for 81ukp inc vat. http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Prod...ProductID=77586 .
Len

POST #35 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

sanderton is offline Old Post 04-16-2004 10:03 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for sanderton Visit sanderton's homepage! Find more posts by sanderton Add sanderton to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

The first link said $250. How prices fall!

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

POST #36 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

sanderton is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 09:07 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for sanderton Visit sanderton's homepage! Find more posts by sanderton Add sanderton to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

Took the plunge and bought two of the USR 5450s. Most disappointed to discover that the 100Mbps "turbo" option doesn't work between two USR 5450s in bridge mode but only from a normal client card to a 5450.

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

POST #37 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

pgogborn is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 11:31 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for pgogborn Find more posts by pgogborn Add pgogborn to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pgogborn
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 2045

quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
Took the plunge and bought two of the USR 5450s. Most disappointed to discover that the 100Mbps "turbo" option doesn't work between two USR 5450s in bridge mode but only from a normal client card to a 5450.

Bummer!

By the way, this weeks issue (April 29th 2004) of micro mart contains an article on installing a wireless network by somebody who avoided wires because he lives in "200 year old cottage with incredibly thick (and flaky) Cobb walls." Unfortunately no specific information is given on signal strength problems and solutions.

POST #38 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

sanderton is offline Old Post 05-01-2004 01:54 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for sanderton Visit sanderton's homepage! Find more posts by sanderton Add sanderton to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

Cobb is mud and straw so is probably just fine!

I've so far been pleasantly surprised by the signal strength. With one 5450 configured as an AP in the study and the other as a repeater in the room above, I've been able to get a 54kbps signal and watch streaming video several rooms while walking around the house withmy laptop.

The wireless networking overhead is bigger than I'd hoped though - it knocks 200K/s off the transfer speed, which is going to make "live" TiVo to TiVo streaming very touch and go.

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

Last edited by sanderton on 05-01-2004 at 02:00 PM

POST #39 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

sanderton is offline Old Post 05-03-2004 03:10 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for sanderton Visit sanderton's homepage! Find more posts by sanderton Add sanderton to your buddy list Show Printable Version Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 4390

Managed to find a position for the APs which avoids most of ths walls and got a 54kbps connection to the upstairs TiVo. Gardeners World is streaming over wireless as I speak. Seems the upstairs machine's lack of input speeds up the TiVo enough to compensate for the network slowdown.

__________________
Stuart

Check out my hacks, including intelligent automatic padding, background re-prioritise Season Passes in TiVoWeb, make your TiVo send you a daily status e-mail, and other stuff we can't talk about on TC here TiVos: 110Gb + Sky + CacheCard, 160Gb + Freeview + CacheCard, 110Gb + just network (Turbonet & 802.11g)

POST #40 | Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:03 AM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): « Prev 1 [2]   Last Thread   Next Thread
>>> Wireless networking Q <<<

TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 > Off Topic Areas (Non-TiVo) > UK General Chit-Chat
Search The Internet
 
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this thread

Forum Jump:
 
Search this Thread:

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - TiVo Community Forum Archive 1 >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.8
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.
Page generated in 0.07715511 seconds (89.05% PHP - 10.95% MySQL) with 20 queries.


Spider History Index