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>>> What about WIRED Transfer speeds? <<<

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SJN is offline Old Post 01-27-2004 04:56 AM
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SJN
New Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Location:
Posts: 11

What about WIRED Transfer speeds?

I currently have two Series 2 TiVo's, with identical Linksys WUSB 11 wireless adapters, served by an original Apple Airport. HMO is activated on both, and the music and photo publishing works just fine on both of them, but wireless transfer rates are unacceptably slow. We have a rather large television in the living room, so everything gets recorded in best quality, so the bandwidth requirements are even greater.

I'm considering running ethernet cabling to the TiVo's, and taking the wireless out of the picture, but before I start crawling around the attic, I'd like to know how much of a difference this will make. This forum has lots of threads discussing wireless transfer speeds, but I can't for the life of me find one that talks about wired transfer speeds.

Can anybody tell me how long it would take to transfer a one hour program, recorded in best quality, between two TiVo's that are connected to the network via USB to Ethernet adapters?

__________________
Series 1 HDR 312, 120 Gb
Series 2 TCD240040, 40 Gb + HMO
Series 2 TCD240040, 160 Gb + HMO
TiVo Desktop running on Mac OS X.3

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Arcy is offline Old Post 01-27-2004 05:27 AM
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Arcy
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Registered: Apr 2003
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It takes me just under two hours to transfer a one hour, best quality program across my wired fast-ethernet.

I find this usable, but disappointing. It is a big improvement over the speeds I was getting running wireless (overnight to transfer an program, if it succeeded at all), but slow enough to require significant planning ahead before watching a show in a room other than where it was recorded.

From what I've gathered from some of the wireless speed discussions, I think my rates may be anomalous, but I can't figure out how to test connection speeds to the TiVos nor what may be slowing it down.

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bootedbear is offline Old Post 01-27-2004 07:27 AM
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bootedbear
JavaJunkie

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 142

I get just about real-time transfer speed with my wired network. Sometimes I'll get a buffer under-run near the beginning of a show if I'm trying to watch it during the transfer, but once I get past that it usually keeps up with viewing speed. (This is all at best quality).

Last edited by bootedbear on 01-27-2004 at 07:39 AM

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HDTiVo is offline Old Post 01-27-2004 08:53 AM
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HDTiVo
Not so Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2002
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The USB 1.1 is the primary bottleneck in this scenario. 12Mb/sec, theoretical. Practical: faster than wireless, still a little slow for Best in real time.

__________________
My SA60 TiVo works fine.
I love it.
I use it ALL the time. (Unless I'm using my SA80 or SA120 or SA40.)
I don't have ANY of the problems mentioned in this Forum.

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SJN is offline Old Post 01-27-2004 09:54 PM
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SJN
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Registered: Apr 2003
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Thanks, all. Now all I have to do is find a cable route through the walls and floor...

__________________
Series 1 HDR 312, 120 Gb
Series 2 TCD240040, 40 Gb + HMO
Series 2 TCD240040, 160 Gb + HMO
TiVo Desktop running on Mac OS X.3

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bootedbear is offline Old Post 01-28-2004 06:33 AM
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bootedbear
JavaJunkie

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 142

quote:
Originally posted by SJN
Thanks, all. Now all I have to do is find a cable route through the walls and floor...


Yeah, I have that pain coming too.

Right now I have the hub sitting on an end-table in the living room. The feed wire snakes up the stairs to hook into the AirPort on the landing, one wire snakes across the living room floor to the main TiVo, one down the hall and into the bedroom for the secondary TiVo, and one through the dining room and into the kitchen to an iMac I use as a recipe server.

My partner is threatening to strangle me with one of said cables if he trips over them one more time. So the monkey (that's me) gets to climb into the attic and snake these wires around and then bring them down through the walls.

What good family fun!

Last edited by bootedbear on 01-28-2004 at 10:55 AM

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Graymalkin is offline Old Post 01-28-2004 06:38 AM
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Graymalkin
Half-Wit Pundit

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Essex County, NJ
Posts: 8070

I have some of those cable runners with double-sided tape. As a temporary solution to the tripping problem, it's inelegant but effective. Of course, I don't have a partner to complain about these things, so YMMV.

__________________
"You GO gray!" -- Justapixel
Forget them, Gray...is simply marvelous! -- Ereth
Graymalkin's is still my favorite -- bruab
I know it's been said, many times, many ways, but you're the man, Gray! -- Thaed
Yes, Gray is one hell of a guy. -- Mavenelle

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KermitTheFrog is offline Old Post 01-29-2004 10:50 AM
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KermitTheFrog
Is that a Garaffe?

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA, USA
Posts: 197

I Actually am able to transfer at Faster than Best Quality. It's enough that I usually get to fast forward through at least one commercial break midway through the recording on both of my 60 Hour Series 2 units (USB1.1 ports)

12Mbit/s is fast enough to send the video at Best. But you have to have the proper Adaptors to support the USB's Bus Speed. The Linksys USB100M adaptors that were available when the Series2 first went live with HMO don't actually use more than 10Mbit/sec & At times they are much worse.

About 2 months ago I ran out and grabbed the USB200M (they are USB2.0 Devices but work on USB1.1 interfaces just fine) Due to the nature of USB 2.0 they were designed to push much more throughput through the device. Even on a USB1.1 Port, it pushes the full 12 Mbit/s to the Tivo's.

They are fairly inexpensive, and WELL worth swapping out any older USB Ethernet Adaptors people might have if they are not getting Best Quality between their Series 2 Tivos.

You also might want to make an effort to make sure that the two Tivo's are connected to dedicated Switch ports :-) Hub's aren't the best solution for constant traffic between 2 units.

Good Luck,
KC

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DCIFRTHS is offline Old Post 01-29-2004 11:08 AM
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DCIFRTHS
My TiVo flickers !

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 620

quote:
Originally posted by KermitTheFrog
......About 2 months ago I ran out and grabbed the USB200M (they are USB2.0 Devices but work on USB1.1 interfaces just fine) Due to the nature of USB 2.0 they were designed to push much more throughput through the device. Even on a USB1.1 Port, it pushes the full 12 Mbit/s to the Tivo's. ......KC


Interesting. I might have to give this a try. I find the HMO service almost useless because I can't transfer Best Quality recordings in real time.

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KermitTheFrog is offline Old Post 02-01-2004 10:30 AM
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KermitTheFrog
Is that a Garaffe?

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA, USA
Posts: 197

I found the same thing.... And i've sure as hell used it ALOT more now that I can easily watch something in one room in Best Quality.. pause it.. and pick it up where it left off in the bedroom... it's VERY usefull now.
KC

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Arcy is offline Old Post 02-02-2004 07:23 AM
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Arcy
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Thanks, KermitTheFrog!

I swapped out the USB 1.1 adapters for USB 2.0 adapters yesterday, and now my best quality transfers are noticably faster than real time.

This is a huge improvement, and I am much happier with HMO now!

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KermitTheFrog is offline Old Post 02-03-2004 08:39 AM
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KermitTheFrog
Is that a Garaffe?

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA, USA
Posts: 197

no problem.. I must say, it's such a markable improvement, I almost wish tivo would somehow identify the users with USB100M's (maybe through the driver used) and let them know there is a maked improvement in the USB200M's.)

KC

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bedelman is offline Old Post 02-03-2004 10:33 AM
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bedelman
Call me Bob

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lakewood, IL, USA
Posts: 2638

It must be something other than the USB port speed because the TiVo units only have USB 1.1 drivers. So even though the units have USB 2.0 hardware (anything with a "2" as the first digit of its TSN), they are limited to the speed of the installed driver which is USB 1.1

__________________
Bob Edelman

1 Pioneer DVR-810H
2 TiVo Series 2 80 hour (one living with son in college)
1 TiVo Series 2 140 hour
1 Humax DRT-800 DVD Recorder with TiVo
1 Sony SVR-2000 (living with other son in Michigan)

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rsnaider is offline Old Post 02-03-2004 06:41 PM
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rsnaider
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1997

I wonder if anyone else here has seen this improvement. Only one of my boxes has USB 2.0 and both are using USB100M's. I would love to know if there will really be an improvement before I spend $50 on two new USB200M's.

For now, TiVo keeps telling us that the drivers in use are only 1.1 speeds.

__________________
Ron

TiVo | SERlES2 - 302 Hrs
TiVo | SONY SVR3000 - 273 Hrs

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rsnaider is offline Old Post 02-05-2004 06:51 AM
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rsnaider
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1997

KermitTheFrog I was a doubter but purchased two USB200M's and now I am able to transfer a High Quality 1 hour show in just over 30 minutes. In the past using either 3com or USB100M's that same transfer would take about an hour. I never use Best, but I might just to see if even those are better than real-time. Most of my stuff is recorded on Medium which FLIES!

Thanks for heads up, since I can now enjoy no longer having to pre-plan my High Quality transfers since I can now start them and skip through commercials.

__________________
Ron

TiVo | SERlES2 - 302 Hrs
TiVo | SONY SVR3000 - 273 Hrs

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mashoe is offline Old Post 02-05-2004 07:14 AM
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mashoe
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a) I wonder if all USB2.0 adapters will demonstrate this speed boost or just the Linksys..

b) I thought the difference between USB 1.1 & USB 2.0 were hardware related and since TiVo's ship with USB 1.1 hardware they'll never be able to take advantage of USB 2.0 speeds regardless of how many driver updates they push. Am I incorrect in this thinking?

Matt

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rsnaider is offline Old Post 02-05-2004 07:38 AM
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rsnaider
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1997

quote:
Originally posted by mashoe
a) I wonder if all USB2.0 adapters will demonstrate this speed boost or just the Linksys..

b) I thought the difference between USB 1.1 & USB 2.0 were hardware related and since TiVo's ship with USB 1.1 hardware they'll never be able to take advantage of USB 2.0 speeds regardless of how many driver updates they push. Am I incorrect in this thinking?

Matt



As you can see from my post above I was skeptical, but made the purchase anyway. I cannot say that any USB 2.0 adapter will see the improvement, but since TiVo and Linksys seem to have some relationship, I would purchase Linksys given a choice.

My Sony box is USB 2.0 whereas my TiVo box is USB 1.1. The newer boxes all have USB 2.0 ports, but the software only has USB 1.1 speeds active for now.

My transfer speeds with USB100M's;

60 Minute Medium Quality Show -> 30 Minutes to Transfer
60 Minute High Quality Show -> 60 Minutes to Transfer

USB200M;

60 Minute Medium Quality Show -> 22 Minutes to Transfer
60 Minute High Quality Show -> 32 Minutes to Transfer

I only installed the adapters tonight, but I can see with all my transfers that there is a definite improvement.

__________________
Ron

TiVo | SERlES2 - 302 Hrs
TiVo | SONY SVR3000 - 273 Hrs

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kitsap is offline Old Post 02-05-2004 10:19 AM
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kitsap
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Silverdale, WA
Posts: 1014

Wow, that's interesting. When I bought my adapters I didn't even realize that the different specs affected them. (I only thought about the ports.) It turns out that my adapters are 1.1, though, so I guess I'll start watching for special deals on 2.0s ... especially the Linksys ones. (It would be good to hear reports of speed improvements with other brands.)

__________________
(aka Paul)
4 Series2 TiVos, all expanded

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KermitTheFrog is offline Old Post 02-13-2004 05:18 AM
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KermitTheFrog
Is that a Garaffe?

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA, USA
Posts: 197

Just to be clear. It's not that the USB 2.0 Adaptors are running at USB 2.0 Speeds on USB 1.1 Ports.. or that the USB 2.0 Adaptors are running at USB 2.0 Sppeds on USB 2.0 Ports that are software set to USB 1.1 Ports.....

The Actuall gain in speed is that the OLD USB 1.1 Adaptors only linked at 10 Megabit. Whereas the Newer USB 2.0 Adaptors link at a faster speed to make up for the fact that USB 2.0 has the ability to push well over 100 Megabits per second.

All USB 2.0 Adaptors are USB 1.1 Backwards Compatible. So they will WORK on USB 1.1 Ports, but will NOT go any faster than USB 1.1 can go. Which tops out at about 12 megabit.

The good news is the added 2 Megabit (and more depending on the architecture of the USB adaptor that you may have been using in the past) is enough to send video at Faster than Real Time. Usually enough for me in Best Qualtiy to skip through 1 30 second commercial per commercial break.. or 2 commercial breaks per program.

So this isn't anything special, or magic. This is simply the fact that most of the older USB 1.x Ethernet Adaptors were built to Never fill the full capablilty of the USB 1.1 bus speed. The USB 2.0 Device, on it's on merrit, can go much faster than the USB 1.1 speed, thus is capable of filling the USB 1.1 Pipe w/o issue.

So... if any of you have a wired network, and want to make Multi Room Viewing more convieninent and useful... give this a shot. :-) it is Definately worth the 50 bucks.

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DCIFRTHS is offline Old Post 02-13-2004 07:12 AM
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DCIFRTHS
My TiVo flickers !

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 620

quote:
Originally posted by KermitTheFrog
....So this isn't anything special, or magic. .....



It is magic.....

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