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>>> If you have a 1.3 unsubbed and want to keep it that way.... <<<

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Old Post 06-07-2001 07:54 AM
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joblo
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quote:
Originally posted by Wild_One!:
Read my first post on this thread and it will explain...



Ok, maybe I'm missing something, but all I see in your first post(s) in this thread are hints about something nasty happening. Perhaps you mean another thread in the same forum?

In any case, let me make this clearer: are you saying that a test call from a non-sub unit upgraded to 2.0.1 will turn that unit into a boat anchor, or merely that this will trigger the standard losses of functionality already known to be associated with non-sub 2.0.1?

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nextguard2 is offline Old Post 06-07-2001 08:07 AM
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nextguard2
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What about making a backup, using the Tivo in "new Tivo" mode and then restoring the backup once a week...

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NextGuard = Paul from Atlanta

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Old Post 06-07-2001 08:14 AM
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joblo
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Couple of points:

First, to be fair to Tivo, I can think of a least a couple of technical reasons why Tivo might want to upgrade the non-sub units other than just to add nag screens and disable features.

Second, correcting the clock is not the only reason non-sub units might need to make regular calls to the Tivo server. Please see http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/For...06757-2.html#43 . As detailed there, LBCABob's plan may not work under all circumstances.

[This message has been edited by joblo (edited 06-06-2001).]

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Wild_One! is offline Old Post 06-07-2001 08:17 AM
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Wild_One!
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quote:
Originally posted by nextguard2:
What about making a backup, using the Tivo in "new Tivo" mode and then restoring the backup once a week...



Why would anyone want to go to that much trouble, 4+ hrs of restoring images... Wow!... Just to avoid $10 bucks

I guess if you want you can..

------------------
Now if I can just figure out how to pause my work... or fast fwd to the end of the day

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DaBuzz is offline Old Post 06-07-2001 08:51 AM
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DaBuzz
Quiet TiVo vet

Registered: May 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
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quote:
Originally posted by curtis0620:
Why should TiVo be responsible for setting your clock? If the box can't do it on its own, so what.
Well you may be satisfied with a device which relies on timed events that can't keep its own time but many others aren't. So what may be a "so what" to you is apparently a big deal to others.
quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah:
First, I don't think it is likely that Tivo would just close up shop and shut off the service. Worst case scenario would have them being aquired by another company, like ReplayTV was aquired by SonicBlue.

Secondly, if for some highly unlikely reason the Tivo service was cut off completely, do you really think that it will take long before the hackers had an alternative in place? I think it's already been mentioned that the TV listings part has been figured out. They just won't release the hack...

This was EXACTLY what the pro-divx people said up until the day Circuit City announced that Divx was going under. How many Divx movies are people watching today? ZERO because the Divx infrastructure was dismantled. What happens when we can't get guide data and our record button no longer records more than 1/2 hour and it continues to nag us to call a service that no longer exists? How much value will these devices hold then?

I also do not wish to rely on "hackers" to return a product to functionality when the company goes out of business that took that functionality away from me to begin with. You also fail to realize that while many TiVo users participate in forums such as these and are aware and in touch with what "hackers" may do, the vast majority of TiVo users are not and any such "hackers" that bring the TiVo back to life would only address the needs of the minority while the majority of TiVo users are still SOL.
quote:
Originally posted by Leon WIlkinson:
Ok, Im not tring blow wind up your A$$. But , I bet if TiVo would go south Richard would step up to the plate and make it right, There is a way to set the time but nobody knows or saying how to do it correctly.
No disrespect to Richard but you can't count on anyone once TiVo goes under. Do you honestly think one person who is no longer getting a paycheck from TiVo would go out of their way to make sure that tens of thousands of abandoned TiVo users can used their devices after they go under? Do you really think he'll be motivated to "make it right" ... are you willing to gamble hundreds of dollars on it? I am not. You may choose to be naive and live in a land of lollipops and free ice cream but I'm more of a realist.

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Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty or Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

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Old Post 06-07-2001 09:28 AM
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joblo
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan203:
TiVo does care about their customers, but by not subscribing to the TiVo service you are NOT one of their customers! Until you pay for that service you are ONLY a Philips/Sony customer and TiVo has no reason what so ever to give you the same care and support that they give their paying customers.




Uh, yeah.... that way of thinking is sure doing wonders for Firestone these days, isn't it??

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nextguard2 is offline Old Post 06-07-2001 09:42 AM
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nextguard2
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quote:
Originally posted by Wild_One!:
Why would anyone want to go to that much trouble, 4+ hrs of restoring images... Wow!... Just to avoid $10 bucks

I guess if you want you can..




I was joking and I assume that you get the joke but just for the record... I have no interest in stealing the Tivo service. I have one fully paid Tivo subscription for each Tivo I own, even the one that I use to experiment with bypassing the service.

<FONT COLOR="Purple">Text</FONT c>

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NextGuard = Paul from Atlanta

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Skylooker is offline Old Post 06-07-2001 10:46 AM
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Skylooker
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Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by TiVolutionary:

&lt;RANT MODE ON&gt;
And please, if you don't like that policy, please oh please oh please go return your receiver!

We are not in the business of writing great software and receiving no profits for it.
&lt;RANT MODE OFF&gt;




&lt;rant&gt;

Well, I really hope the remaining Tivo employees keep their resumes up to date if they all share that attitude.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the purchase price of my unit essentialy gives me no say whatsoever in what sofrware modifications Tivo decides to make to the unit. Even if that includes crippling the unit or making it so annoying or difficult to use that I can't stand it. It's Tivo's machine, I just paid a few hundred bucks for it to sit on top of my TV cabinet? Is that what you're saying?? If Tivo isn't getting a cut of the sale of the machine then they're giving away their product voluntarily. Why exactly am I being penalized for that foolish business parctice???

I'm trying my best to NOT make this sound like a nutty usenet flame post but give me a break!!!

If I paid for the complete unit and the software contained therein, what right does Tivo have to modify it in any way without my consent just because I plugged it onto my phone line???

I suppose it would be OK for Microsoft to change the operating system software on my PC without my consent whenever they so chose. An "upgrade" that perhaps makes it so I can only use my computer the way THEY want me to use it. Would that be a fair comparison?

quote:
And please, if you don't like that policy, please oh please oh please go return your receiver!



"Please oh please" tell me that is not your official response as a representative of Tivo!! Does your boss support that position too?

Good luck in your future ventures! May I suggest you check out Monster.Com.

[This message has been edited by Skylooker (edited 06-07-2001).]

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Skylooker is offline Old Post 06-07-2001 10:59 AM
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Skylooker
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lang:
You guys are just repeating yourselves over and over! Look, this is the way TiVo is doing it, accept it, sell it, whatever...just make a choice already! Saying "I don't like it and here's why" all day long doesn't do anything but fire you up even more and waste your time. How long do you bang your head against a wall before you figure out it doesn't do anything but hurt? This is obviously policy now...accept it or move on.



Isn't this a "Discussion Forum?" I feel another thread closure coming on. Just because a large number of participants disagree passionately with Tivo, doesn't make a thread "taboo" does it?

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Skylooker is offline Old Post 06-07-2001 11:17 AM
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Skylooker
Loose Cannon

Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by curtis0620:
Why would anyone pay $400 for a Tivo without the service? It's nothing more than a VCR, even without the nag screens.


On the contrary, it's far less than a VCR. I can't set the clock, control the input configuration or operate the unit without nag screens all over the place unless I subscribe.

quote:

Why should TiVo be responsible for setting your clock? If the box can't do it on its own, so what.



I'm not sure I follow your position on this but here goes. There should be NO reason to rely on Tivo to set the clock. This should be a user function and there might be fewer padding issues if it were.


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Old Post 06-07-2001 01:31 PM
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AdamSelene
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quote:
Originally posted by DaBuzz:
Dan,

You show me a court of law that will contend that notification of changes are acceptable after those changes have been applied and I'll show you a UFO that landed in my backyard last night.



Never read your bank account agreement, did you? That's exactly how it's done.

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Old Post 06-07-2001 01:39 PM
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lordcutter
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Cool

Ok - so how much information does the tivo keep on itself out of the box ? could someone make an image of a clean 1.3 tivo hardrive and then let people use that ?

While I think its cheap and dishonest for them to push the service on you guys - I have to say the 2.0 software has some nice improvments (to service users anyway) the ability to pad a show by a certain amount of mins, or change the order to record stuff kicks ass - I dont know how many times Id want to record a new show only to have it get a rerun of another show :|

well thats what I think !
LordCutter

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Old Post 06-07-2001 02:02 PM
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Bjex
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First: As I recall...a bank statement is a notification of changes made WITH CONSENT OF THE ACCOUNT HOLDER. Either being an actual check or withdrawal....or an agreed upon fee by the bank as stipulated in the terms of the account. I haven't come across any situation where TiVo gave the opportunity to confirm the changes were wanted.

Second: Sure, a TiVo unit's clock is not terribly accurate. Then again, I've never seen one in a PC or PC-like device that was accurate. I have my PC connect to a time server to keep accurate. That doesn't excuse not having the option to set it manually as opposed to calling TiVo to get the time.

Last: If nothing else, this thread is useful in that it has persuaded me never to buy anything related to TiVo. Granted, some people need the convenience of a PVR, but as for me, I can just get a card for my PC from another company who doesn't force impromptu upgrades.

[This message has been edited by Bjex (edited 06-07-2001).]

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Old Post 06-07-2001 02:59 PM
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JustSomeGuyYaKnow
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Arrow

WOW. That's all I have to say. I bumped in to this thread while doing research. I was pretty much planning to buy some Tivo unit, wanted to get some opinions from existing users about the different unites and sizes...

I have to say, I have completely abandoned the idea of ever spending 1 dollar with a company that addresses it's customer base this way on a public forum. What happened to "the customer is always right" or even common courtesy?

I work for a fortune 500 company with call centers all over the country, if any of our reps talked to a paying or potential customer in this manner, they'd be out of a job.

Such a shame, another great idea ruined by an inept company. Guess I'll start looking in to a cheapie PC with a vid capture board. Probably end up being cheaper too...

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Old Post 06-07-2001 03:35 PM
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Richard Finegold
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But... they did say that the customer is always right. They intend to "fix" it this summer.

Of course, "customer" alone is vague; unsubbed units are product customers not service customers. Ambiguity leads to confusion and chaos.

I'm hopeful that the 2.5 will do two additional things for unsubbed recorders:
1) Deny/skip future upgrades.
2) Decrease call frequency, maybe once a week. Perhaps even do some drift calculating.
All in the name of decreasing TiVo's telephony budget.

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Old Post 06-07-2001 04:43 PM
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Supernaut
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Thumbs down

Its called Bait and Switch folks.

Its rude, its raw, and in some cases, illegal. You may want to phone up your attorney general. =)

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Supernaut

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Old Post 06-07-2001 04:57 PM
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g dog
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Thumbs down

I was led to this thread from a recent news article on TiVo. The article was brutal enough, but let me say I am completely shocked by this.

Now having read this, I certainly don't plan on purchasing a TiVo unit anytime soon. How can a company be so blatantly ungrateful to its "customers" (call them whatever you want to, it's still your technology) who are helping you establish the product- and at $400 dollars a piece, turning a nice profit no doubt.

It's bad enough that TiVo is tampering with "non-customers" who do not have subscriptions with TiVo, and therefore, in the representatives' own words, have no legal agreement with them. But to take it even further and ridicule your "customer" base, is both stupid and offensive.

I don't see how TiVo can sit back and think that none of this has an effect. As I said, I have not bought one, and now I definitely will not. I highly doubt that anyone who brings up TiVo around me will be purchasing one either.

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Old Post 06-07-2001 05:19 PM
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undefined
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I read the entire thread, and I tried to keep an open mind about everyone's posts. My conclusion is I will NEVER buy a tivo. I feel sympathy for those of you who shelled out the hundreds of dollars, and I hope you someday find satisfaction with your purchase.
As for me, I think I'll build my own. It may not be as advanced and cool as tivo could've been, but it'll be cheaper and as functional as I intend it to be.

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dd9 is offline Old Post 06-07-2001 05:25 PM
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dd9
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Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by g dog:
I was led to this thread from a recent news article on TiVo. The article was brutal enough, but let me say I am completely shocked by this.


What was the topic of the article? Have a link?

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Old Post 06-07-2001 05:33 PM
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I saw this article on slashdot: http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~fsk/tivo.html, and there was also a link to this thread from there

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>>> If you have a 1.3 unsubbed and want to keep it that way.... <<<

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