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>>> More NBC shows to start a minute early (causing more conflicts!) <<<

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HTH is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 11:58 AM
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HTH
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Many newspaper guides (I hesitate to claim "most") list prime-time lineups in grid fashion only which doesn't lend itself well to stating times off the half-hour marks.

NBC has been showing ER one or more minutes early a whole year before they started reporting it in their schedule that way.

quote:
CBS should definately end CSI at 10:02 to screw with NBC.
That will only make it worse for us. I don't want to have to have a different TiVo (or tuner) for every network. I'd rather have the FCC regulate broadcasters' prime-time start and stop times to be on the hour or half-hour unless they receive a special waiver which must be issued per airing.

Do I need to remind you of the story of The Reason?

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tbeckner is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 12:08 PM
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tbeckner
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quote:
Originally posted by TrippKnightly
And still as of this posting the only explanations I've seen for NBC's actions are based on conjecture (some sound, some less so). Nothing official or authoritative.

I want to know definitively & specifically why NBC is doing it before getting all lathered up about it.



Since NBC has been involved with TIVO since the very early days and since they have been using this TIVO only scheduling of ER on Thursday against CSI on CBS (TV's highest rated drama), then the reason for this TIVO only scheduling is very clear to almost anyone.

I have been watching the progression of this TIVO only scheduling on NBC and it became clear a long time ago what they are attempting to achieve. I have no problem with this scheduling, because I receive both EAST and WEST coast feeds of the networks, and I have three DirecTIVO's, all of which have both tuners active, and I have a single SA TIVO with a single feed, so I have 13 feeds to choose from. But a single SA TIVO owner with a single local network feed has to make a choice to re-schedule their season passes or setup a manual recording schedule.

So to the NBC people, you are NOT affecting those people that you might want to watch NBC shows over another show on another network.

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MighTiVo is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 12:11 PM
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MighTiVo
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quote:
Originally posted by smak
CBS should definately end CSI at 10:02 to screw with NBC.

-smak-



This has been going on long enough, TiVo should definitely add some feature to the software that makes these time wars manageable. Manual recording is not a reasonable option, if that is what I have to do I could just dump TiVo for any old DVR.

Go here and tell them we need a fix!
http://research.tivo.com/suggestions/

Last edited by MighTiVo on 01-05-2004 at 12:19 PM

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Slider10 is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 05:30 PM
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Slider10
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Two words people: Manual Recording!

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cello is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 08:14 PM
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cello
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quote:
Originally posted by smak

CBS should definately end CSI at 10:02 to screw with NBC.

-smak-



Yeah! I've been thinking it's about time to wean myself off of ER. I'd love it if CSI just ends one minute later every week. By this time next year, a 2 hour CSI and no ER for me would be fine. I just need some encouragement to drop ER slowly - it's like an addiction.

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pbanders is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 08:22 PM
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pbanders
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For me, Tivo has already solved this problem. Before I got Tivo, I watched a lot of network TV. Now, I rarely do, instead, I've got a great library of shows from History Channel, A&E, Discovery, PBS, etc. I'm down to two network shows per week - NYPD Blue and ER. And as infrequently as there are new episodes of these two shows, it's even less of an issue.

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DancnDude is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 08:40 PM
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DancnDude
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quote:
Originally posted by smak
I don't think NBC is doing it to make extra advertising money on their better shows, because if ER is scheduled to start at 9:59, i'm sure that there's not a commercial at 9:59, it's probably the start of the show.

I don't know if NBC is doing it for money, but by starting the show at 9:59, they gain an extra minute during the show to show an extra commercial or 2. I bet the actual episode of ER is not a minute longer than usual....it's just got an extra minute of commercials buried inside.

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grins is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 10:06 PM
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grins
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Perhaps they're just making explicit what is already true. Friends has squeezed into other time slots for a while, just like the simpsons has.

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aindik is offline Old Post 01-05-2004 10:55 PM
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aindik
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quote:
Originally posted by DancnDude
I don't know if NBC is doing it for money, but by starting the show at 9:59, they gain an extra minute during the show to show an extra commercial or 2. I bet the actual episode of ER is not a minute longer than usual....it's just got an extra minute of commercials buried inside.


Exactly. During the time between 9:30 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. ET, NBC and local stations will air 27 minutes of commercials. By starting ER one minute early, NBC gets 19 of those minutes during ER, and 8 minutes during Whoopi, instead of 18 minutes during ER and 9 minutes during Whoopi. Since ER has higher ratings, they can sell that extra minute of ads at a higher price - more money for them and/or their affiliates.

I also agree with grins. If NBC is going to start shows early and/or end them late anyway, I appreciate their candor with the guide data folks, so, at least my TiVo doesn't miss part of the show. What I really hate is when they schedule friends for 32 minutes and it airs for 34 minutes.

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dt_dc is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 12:32 AM
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dt_dc
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quote:
Originally posted by aindik
If NBC is going to start shows early and/or end them late anyway, I appreciate their candor with the guide data folks, so, at least my TiVo doesn't miss part of the show. What I really hate is when they schedule friends for 32 minutes and it airs for 34 minutes.
I agree ... if a network is going to do the above, I think the 'right' thing to do is accurately report the times. I actually think lots of other networks are doing the same thing (just not accurately reporting guide data). Anyone Tivo Karen Cisco (ABC) when it was on? I did, and I always got several minutes of some dating reality show that was on just before (The Bachelorette?). Simpsons, Raymond, and South Park often seem to run a tad 'long'. CSI often seems to start a tad 'early'.

Some interesting articles:
http://www.cincypost.com/2002/10/02/broad100202.html
http://dawgnet.butler.edu/archive/021113/743.html
http://www.geocities.com/bqks/blibr...paper41_can.htm
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0207/p13s01-altv.html (scroll down to Bonus Minutes section)
http://www.star.swt.edu/02/11/13/entertainment.html (last article on page)

Nice quote:
quote:
"God never said you had to end shows on the half-hour," said Alan Wurtzel, NBC executive vice president. "It just became a convention."


Question:
If a network does 'tweak' their schedule (for whatever reason) ... would you prefer they accurately reported start/end times or not? I think the networks should provide as accurate guide data as possible ...

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rasheed is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 12:55 AM
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rasheed
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quote:
Originally posted by dt_dc
Question:
If a network does 'tweak' their schedule (for whatever reason) ... would you prefer they accurately reported start/end times or not? I think the networks should provide as accurate guide data as possible ...



Okay, this is a fair point. It is better to report times accurately in general, but there are a number of issues here:

1) You can't do manual records to the :01 minute accuracy
2) You can't change season passes to stop recording early to the :01 minute accuracy so that you can "automate" the record process

NBC can do whatever they want, but the TiVo (or most/all other PVR/DVRs) are not very useful beyond manual or one-time records if they isn't a way to work with networks that have a variety of schedules.

Now, I will be floored if these shows don't start at the exact time :59, :10, :0 whatever as they have listed (and then it becomes even more confusion why they are reporting shows at these intervals).

TiVo's time is very accurate (anyone watching West Wing for the past few seasons should have seen this attribute from what I have seen), so...

Rasheed

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TrippKnightly is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 01:12 AM
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TrippKnightly
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter000
I don't give a rat's behind why NBC is doing it. I'm fairly sure they're not doing it for altruistic reasons, or because somebody's holding the President of NBC hostage. And I'm fairly sure every move NBC makes in scheduling is geared to getting better ratings.

But all ll I know for certain is that it affects me in a negative way, and that's one of the reasons why I'm watching less NBC programming.



Simply because you should seek first to understand before being understood. Unless you know specifics you're grasping at straws and don't stand a chance of changing things - though based on your post you seem willing to play the hand that's dealt you and leave it at that?

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SteakMan is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 01:16 AM
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SteakMan
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quote:
Originally posted by DancnDude
I don't know if NBC is doing it for money, but by starting the show at 9:59, they gain an extra minute during the show to show an extra commercial or 2. I bet the actual episode of ER is not a minute longer than usual....it's just got an extra minute of commercials buried inside.
It may have an extra minute of commercials, but that's not a (logical) reason to start it early. They could just cut a minute from the show. The choice to start early can only be to cause conflicts and require the viewers to choose.

Even forgetting about PVR's, think of the households with only one VCR. If they record ER at 8:00, they miss a minute. Next week they remember to start at 7:59, but wait a minute... That means I might miss the ending of CSI.

-SteakMan-

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jeffw_00 is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 01:24 AM
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jeffw_00
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actually - i think the best argument is to charge another minute at the higher rate - note it's only the REAL high rated shows that have this happen. It's probably a transient thing, however, once the advertisers catch on they will be less willing to pay up for a minute during which not everybody may be tuned in

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kirbylile is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 01:28 AM
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kirbylile
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What genius at NBC is screwing all this up?

Reminds me of the days when TBS would start everything at 5 minutes past the hour or half hour. Ted Turner wanted the channel surfers time to look around and land on TBS and still not miss the beginning of shows. Not to mention make the network stand out a little at the time.

Seems to me, starting a show earlier than usual requires the viewer to be a clock watcher, if you will, to get on over to the channel early. Not likely, if they're anything like me. Of course, as a TiVo owner, all NBC is doing is screwing up my Season Passes, and like others, I am just canceling the NBC shows that interfere by starting a minute early. I sincerely doubt I will miss anything if I don't watch Average Joe 2.

And to insinuate that since TiVo owners are not a majority of the viewing audience, our opinions don't matter, is just plain wrong. Viewers are viewers, and if you lose 'em, it can't be good.

No skin off my back, NBC, if I don't watch you as much anymore, because there's plenty of other channels in the ocean.

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devdogaz is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 01:32 AM
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Look, plain and simple NBC doesn't care about TiVo users and their conflicting season passes. TiVo users are just way too small of a group to really make any difference to a national broadcast network that cancels shows that don't get 10 million viewers.

The only two viable reasons for these schedule changes are:
1. To get more ad revenue out of a higher rated show. TV shows have a fairly standard amount of content vs. advertising. Due to syndication, etc. they don't generally make a show shorter to get more advertising. Rather they will add a minute to the popular timeslot and remove a minute from the lower-rated timeslot.
2. To get viewers to stay on NBC because they are either a) already watching an NBC show before the other networks shows have begun, or b) because they have missed the beginning of something on another network because the NBC show went long.

This is not an NBC problem. NBC is welcome to do whatever it wishes with its schedule to try and gain more viewers. Whether this strategy will work remains to be seen. However, the problems TiVo owners are having are because of TiVo, not because of NBC. TiVo has known for three years that users wanted negative padding, soft padding and to the minute manual recordings. For some unknown reason, they have refused to put these features into their software. If TiVo continues to refuse to add this feature, I say we send the message to TiVo with our wallets. TiVo should offer these features regardless of what the broadcast networks are doing. Taking your anger out on NBC for simply trying to gain more viewers and being honest about it seems kind of unproductive. Go ahead and flame me all you want, but be realistic. Who is really at fault for you not being able to record one show from 8:00 to 8:59 and another from 8:59 to 11:00? Is that NBC's fault?

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kirbylile is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 01:43 AM
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kirbylile
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quote:
Originally posted by devdogaz
Look, plain and simple NBC doesn't care about TiVo users and their conflicting season passes.


Unless you're an NBC employee and authorized to speak on its behalf, I don't quite believe you.

If you think TiVo can cure this problem, then let them know. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

As for me, I didn't think anything was broken, so why try to fix it, by changing the start time. Something good stays good until someone else messes with it. See Coca-Cola.

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TiVoed4Life is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 01:56 AM
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TiVoed4Life
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quote:
Originally posted by kirbylile

Reminds me of the days when TBS would start everything at 5 minutes past the hour or half hour. Ted Turner wanted the channel surfers time to look around and land on TBS and still not miss the beginning of shows. Not to mention make the network stand out a little at the time.



You mean they don't do this anymore? Where the heck have I been??

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devdogaz is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 02:01 AM
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devdogaz
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quote:
Originally posted by kirbylile
As for me, I didn't think anything was broken, so why try to fix it, by changing the start time. Something good stays good until someone else messes with it. See Coca-Cola.

Well, maybe you haven't been following TV news this season. NBC's viewership is down across the board and some of their highest-rated shows have shown dramatic dips. TV is a fluid meduim that requires constant work by talented producers, writers, directors, actors and executives to maintain quality. Shows do not simply "stay good" if they aren't messed with. Not messing with a show would mean not producing any more episodes. How does that cause it to "stay good?"

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dt_dc is offline Old Post 01-06-2004 02:03 AM
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quote:
Do the math.

"Friends" commands the highest price for a 30-second spot among regular prime-time shows at almost a half million dollars. Gee, a lousy two minutes equals another $2 million per show to help pay the $6 million per-episode the cast is reportedly making.

An NBC executive was murky about why the show went two minutes long, telling the Washington Post it was not a one-night fluke, "Friends" did run long creatively, and it will run long creatively this season."

{snip}

CBS was a little more up front as to why "CSI" ran over. A spokesman said it was because more promos were added to the show, pointing out it was premiere week and they wanted to plug other shows in their most-watched one.


source: http://www.cincypost.com/2002/10/02/broad100202.html

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>>> More NBC shows to start a minute early (causing more conflicts!) <<<

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