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>>> Did Anyone See the HDTiVo in Action at CES?? <<<

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MassRocket is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 08:36 PM
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MassRocket
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I am not so sure it affects "very few people," especially given the target market for a box at this price point. I am willing to bet that more than a few potential purchasers of this product are currently distributing video from their a/v cabinet to one or more TVs in addition to their HD display.

I would be more inclined to agree with your statement if they had had the good sense to make "native pass-through" one of the format options (as is the case with most of the hd boxes I have seen). Then at least you could flip on an SD show in another room without hassling with changing the output format on the HDTivo.

As it is, I will probably employ the workaround you suggest of keeping my existing box. I will probably only record HD on the HDTivo and keep the SD passes on the other unit with the kids' stuff and deal with switching between the two when watching in the main room. At least then if I want to finish an SD show in another room I won't have to hassle with resetting the output format before leaving the main room.

Unfortunately, this will make the HDTivo more of a "novelty" than an indispensable part of my everyday viewing use (admittedly with more utility than my existing HD receiver). I will likely use it to record a few HD shows here in there but it probably won't be the everyday workhorse of my a/v system. I will still buy the unit despite this functional shortcoming. However, if I wasn't such an early adopter, I would have to think harder about it given the price point.

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Zathrus is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 08:44 PM
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Zathrus
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quote:
The Gateway and Pioneer both have DVI inputs so this should be perfect for me. It even looks like you could use another one of these to send two HD DirecTiVos to both Plasmas!


Not unless they have two DVI inputs each. Otherwise you'll need a DVI switch (or two) as well -- you cannot use a Y-splitter as a switch -- it does not work backwards.

Also, unless your TVs are virtually adjacent you won't be able to do this anyway. The maximum spec'd cable length for DVI is 15 feet. Some companies claim to be able to do up to 50 feet. You can put in a DVI repeater to extend this length, but they're expensive.

quote:
I am willing to bet that more than a few potential purchasers of this product are currently distributing video from their a/v cabinet to one or more TVs in addition to their HD display.


I'd disagree. A lot of people simply purchase additional units rather than try to do distribution. The distribution crowd are a small segment of a small segment. Throw in HD and you're talking about a 3rd order small segment... while I think it would've been smart for TiVo to seek a better chipset that could output both at the same time, I suspect they were very limited in choices at the time design started.

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RARamaker is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 10:09 PM
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RARamaker
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quote:
At least then if I want to finish an SD show in another room I won't have to hassle with resetting the output format before leaving the main room.


I'm not sure I understand the problem. If as stated earlier, you just use the up arrow on the remote to change output formats, then to use a remote TV, just press the up arrow on the remote until you get a picture. I think I could even train my 5 year old to do that.

Russ

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Cruzan is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 12:14 AM
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Cruzan
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Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by mikandrsn
How's the speed on the guide and interface? Same old processor there?


The performance looked the same as current DTivo's and my old original Philips- I didn't notice any unusual delays but it wasn't particularly snappy, either.

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feldon23 is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 01:11 AM
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feldon23
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The solution to this problem is to get a DirecTV SD Adapter. They run $50-70 these days.

They look sorta like this:

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dswallow is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 01:20 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by feldon23
The solution to this problem is to get a DirecTV SD Adapter. They run $50-70 these days.

They look sorta like this:


But it wouldn't let you watch HD channels -- and one day there'll be more of them with programming unique from their SD counterparts -- or there won't be SD counterparts.

DirecTV needs to phase in SD receivers that can receive the HD channels and show them on SD devices.

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MassRocket is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 06:26 AM
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MassRocket
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Thanks for the asinine response feldon23.

It is so convenient to spend $999 on an HDTivo and then have to buy ANOTHER SDTIVO unit and switch between the HDTivo and SDTivo show-by-show.

You are awfully forgiving, particularly given the price point of the product. What other HD STBs have come out recently that (i) don't have native output and (ii) don't even output to more than a SINGLE output (despite having more than one HD and SD outputs) when an HD show is playing? IMHO, someone screwed up on a fairly straightforward design point here.

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rogo is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 09:27 AM
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rogo
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"I am not so sure it affects "very few people," especially given the target market for a box at this price point. I am willing to bet that more than a few potential purchasers of this product are currently distributing video from their a/v cabinet to one or more TVs in addition to their HD display."

Well, it does affect almost no one... I'm not sure 5% of Tivo owners even know you can send the singal elsewhere. Regardless, you can >>still<< do this with the HD Tivo, by switching the output... The >>only<< thing you lose is simultaneous output.

And as for native output, it's actually on a small percentage of HD boxes and affects next to no one as well. Only if you have one of the few sets that supports 1080i and 720p input (some plasmas, some LCD microdisplay and DLP sets, very few CRTs). Most CRTs don't take 720p, RCA's DLP doesn't, Panasonic's new plasmas don't, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

And for the vast majority of viewers, a non-native permanent selection of one or the other will be fine. For "pigs" like us, it's one lousy button on the remote. Given it takes 3 remotes and 6 buttons for me to "jump to HD" today, well, I'm hardly going to whine.

Do I want simultaneous output and native passthrough? Yes I do. The 2005 model will probably have both, not to mention a 500GB hard drive. I'll get that one and sell off this one. But this one, I wanted enough to be "ripped off" and put money on the table.

Less than 90 days! I can hardly wait.

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mercurial is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 05:02 PM
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mercurial
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quote:
Originally posted by rogo

And as for native output, it's actually on a small percentage of HD boxes and affects next to no one as well. Only if you have one of the few sets that supports 1080i and 720p input (some plasmas, some LCD microdisplay and DLP sets, very few CRTs). Most CRTs don't take 720p, RCA's DLP doesn't, Panasonic's new plasmas don't, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.



As for native output/pass-through, the one thing different about that is, so far as I can tell, it's a purely software issue to enable it so it should be possible, if not at release, at some point there after. For simultaneous output, it seems to be a limitation of the chipset being used so that can't be solved until the next generation.

It may be a "small sub-set" that want either, but a $1K, you have to think about those small sub-sets and include the little details that make HT enthusiasts happy (like discrete IR code for macro based remotes). I hope they at least do the things that should be possible in software (discrete IR, native pass-through) in the first version in a software refresh if not out of the gate. I think they'll get enough grief about simultaneous output that it will make the next hardware platform.

That's the other thing about these "small sub-sets"... At this price range, they may be small, but they're very vocal...

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dswallow is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 05:08 PM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by rogo
And as for native output, it's actually on a small percentage of HD boxes and affects next to no one as well. Only if you have one of the few sets that supports 1080i and 720p input (some plasmas, some LCD microdisplay and DLP sets, very few CRTs). Most CRTs don't take 720p, RCA's DLP doesn't, Panasonic's new plasmas don't, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
You're kidding right? Panasonic's new Plasma Panels don't take a 720p input? That's amazing... just looked at the specs; 720p via PC interface only. Amazing. Off to read people's opinions on this one at AVSForum. I guess I'm spending too much time paying attention only to Fujitsu plasma's!

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llogan is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 09:26 PM
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llogan
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I've been looking at doing distribution for a long time now but it was just easier to buy multiple receivers.

Problems were:

Different video input standards on televisions around the house
Different video streams that I wanted to distribute (DVI, RGB, component, S-video, composite, and RF). To support two or more of these was definitely going to cost some serious coin and to be honest, I'd rather save my money for my 2 HD Tivos.

The closest I came was to just distribute RF through the house as a mechanism to get some kind of distribution but eventually decided against it.

I am going to do RF distribution in my girlfriend's house for two tivos and that's mainly because we have fewer users there (just the two of us) and our desire to be able to access our tivo recordings from anywhere in the house. Also many fewer tvs in her house (3).

And, you know what, there are a lot of things I 'wish' they'd put into the HD Tivo, but right now I'd rather they just come out with the damned thing.

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btwyx is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 10:03 PM
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btwyx
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Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
You're kidding right? Panasonic's new Plasma Panels don't take a 720p input? That's amazing... just looked at the specs; 720p via PC interface only. Amazing. Off to read people's opinions on this one at AVSForum. I guess I'm spending too much time paying attention only to Fujitsu plasma's!
You obviously don't hang out in the AVS Plasma forum. This has been a hot topic for months. The commercial models do 720p, the consumers ones don't (except front panel PC input). If I were buying a display this year, instead of last year, I'd be seriously looking at the commercial model. (That and I don't want the speakers.)

My Plasma display accepts 720p, I'd like native pass through.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 11:23 PM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by btwyx
You obviously don't hang out in the AVS Plasma forum. This has been a hot topic for months. The commercial models do 720p, the consumers ones don't (except front panel PC input). If I were buying a display this year, instead of last year, I'd be seriously looking at the commercial model. (That and I don't want the speakers.)

My Plasma display accepts 720p, I'd like native pass through.

I do hang out around there, but I bought a Fujitsu, and don't care about the Panasonic's. Moreso now that I've experienced Panasonic's quality control with DVD players. A curse on them. But now my curiosity is piqued.

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rogo is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 08:36 AM
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rogo
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" You're kidding right? "

When I kid, I usually use a smiley.

Mark

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dswallow is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 08:53 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by rogo
[B]" You're kidding right? "

When I kid, I usually use a smiley. [B]
You didn't say always use a smiley.

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teekster is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 11:59 PM
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teekster
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I for one will not be buying one unless it has simultaneous display on HD and SD outputs. I returned my Zenith HD STB in favor of a Samsung, and will not lose this feature again. I hope you read these forums, DirecTV.

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pkscout is offline Old Post 01-18-2004 12:16 AM
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pkscout
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quote:
Originally posted by teekster
I for one will not be buying one unless it has simultaneous display on HD and SD outputs. I returned my Zenith HD STB in favor of a Samsung, and will not lose this feature again. I hope you read these forums, DirecTV.


You'll have to wait for the next hardware revision then, as the HD/SD only is, from what we are hearing, a hardware limitation.

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teekster is offline Old Post 01-18-2004 12:44 AM
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teekster
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I guess I'll just buy another hard drive for my HTPC instead. I've waited this long, I can wait longer. I bought my last DTivo for $50, maybe this type of depreciation will occur with the HD units by the time the 2nd gen hits store shelves.

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pkscout is offline Old Post 01-18-2004 01:58 AM
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pkscout
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Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by teekster
I guess I'll just buy another hard drive for my HTPC instead. I've waited this long, I can wait longer. I bought my last DTivo for $50, maybe this type of depreciation will occur with the HD units by the time the 2nd gen hits store shelves.


Probably. How long have the DTiVos been out? Three years, four? If you can get your HTPC to last for you that long, more power to ya.

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turbo92awd is offline Old Post 01-18-2004 05:05 AM
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turbo92awd
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quote:
Originally posted by theratpatrol
No I have UTV. Have you ever used PIP? I use PIP all the time. Its great for sports, and for when you want to channel surf during commercials. If you've never had PIP you don't know what you're missing. How many people think they would use PIP if they had it on Tivo? PIP is a software issue and could easily be updated on Tivo.



why not do this... pause what you are watching... flip to other tuner and channel surf... find program you like and pause that one. flip to other tuner. watch for 10-15 mins and pause. flip to other tuner and repeat.


i always "power stack" my channels when i am watching something that is not already recorded.


my .02...

PIP SUCKS

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