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>>> Did Anyone See the HDTiVo in Action at CES?? <<<

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MCodanti is offline Old Post 01-18-2004 09:31 AM
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MCodanti
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quote:
Originally posted by theratpatrol
No I have UTV. Have you ever used PIP? I use PIP all the time. Its great for sports, and for when you want to channel surf during commercials. If you've never had PIP you don't know what you're missing. How many people think they would use PIP if they had it on Tivo? PIP is a software issue and could easily be updated on Tivo.


As long as the hardware is capable of it. The hardware would have to decode, and scale the second stream. Which I assume would come form either a tuner or the HD. That means the HD and i/o system needs to support recording two streams, and playing two streams at the same time without causing any hiccups... Doesn't sound like any easy feature to me, unless it was planned in the hardware design phase.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 01-18-2004 09:41 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by MCodanti
As long as the hardware is capable of it. The hardware would have to decode, and scale the second stream. Which I assume would come form either a tuner or the HD. That means the HD and i/o system needs to support recording two streams, and playing two streams at the same time without causing any hiccups... Doesn't sound like any easy feature to me, unless it was planned in the hardware design phase.
The BroadCom chipset numbered one higher than the chipset used in the DirecTV HD DVR lists PIP capability among its specifications.

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overzeetop is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 10:31 PM
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overzeetop
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I must say I'm quite dissapointed in the simultaneous SD/HD thing. I have a SD DTivo right now, and pipe it to the entire house on channel 80 (I use inexpensive ChannelVision modulators, about $60/ea IIRC). If I'm doing work aroud the house, I'll turn on a TV in each room so I can follow the program (say, a football game) around as I'm doing stuff. Yes, there's even a TV in the laundry room and master closet.

I'd prefer to have HD on in the living room (120" FP system) if it's available, but I suppose I can live with it if it gets me HD. I've decided againt HD until I can timeshift, as I've forgotten how to watch anything but live sports in its native timeslot. I don't even know when my favorite programs air.

As for RARamaker's earlier comment about clicking a remote button repeatedly until you get a picture. You clearly aren't considering that anytime feedback is needed, a macro on a master remote (i.e. Pronto) is practically impossible. That makes my wife's life more difficult, and my life miserable. I am proud to say that I have over a dozen remotes collecting dust, and switching from Tivo to a DVD or visa versa requires only one button press (though it requires a macro of a dozen keypresses on four different remotes).

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smak is offline Old Post 01-20-2004 07:08 AM
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smak
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quote:
Originally posted by turbo92awd
why not do this... pause what you are watching... flip to other tuner and channel surf... find program you like and pause that one. flip to other tuner. watch for 10-15 mins and pause. flip to other tuner and repeat.


i always "power stack" my channels when i am watching something that is not already recorded.


my .02...

PIP SUCKS



Agreed, PIP is almost worthless with a regular Tivo, letalone a 2 tuner Tivo.

PIP is useful in sports when you're forced to watch it live, and there's something else on you want to watch.

Neither needs to happen with a tivo. I was just fine pausing the games yesterday while watching any number of pre-recorded things in now playing. I that 7 hours of real time, i probably got in double that in actual viewing!


-smak-

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llogan is offline Old Post 01-20-2004 08:57 AM
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llogan
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The easiest fix for me to get PIP was just to get another DirecTivo so that there are two hooked up to the TV, works wonderfully.

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1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
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jmpage2 is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 10:39 AM
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I must say that after being extremely hyped about HDTivo for the past 18 months I am extremely let down after reading this thread.

The $999 price point is hard enough to swallow but now to find out that I won't be able to run the new box as my existing one, which pipes the DirecTivo signal to the entire house over coax is an enormous let-down.

In addition $999 and no option today or even likelihood in the future of either the Tivo Home Media option or Tivo-to-go. This might be DirecTV's call, but surely Tivo informs them that the HD customers will be the most demanding tech savvy people on the planet??

Even if these can be enabled in software we are looking at an additional cost of at least $99 on top of the GRAND we have to spend up front.

All to get the 6 available HD channels DirecTV delivers.

Maybe they will get it right next time.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 11:05 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by jmpage2
I must say that after being extremely hyped about HDTivo for the past 18 months I am extremely let down after reading this thread.

The $999 price point is hard enough to swallow but now to find out that I won't be able to run the new box as my existing one, which pipes the DirecTivo signal to the entire house over coax is an enormous let-down.

In addition $999 and no option today or even likelihood in the future of either the Tivo Home Media option or Tivo-to-go. This might be DirecTV's call, but surely Tivo informs them that the HD customers will be the most demanding tech savvy people on the planet??

Even if these can be enabled in software we are looking at an additional cost of at least $99 on top of the GRAND we have to spend up front.

All to get the 6 available HD channels DirecTV delivers.

Maybe they will get it right next time.


Until about 2 months ago when a few people started making up pricing rumors and posting them, you spent the first 16 of those 18 months being hyped about what was expected to be a $1,000+ price point. And of course, all during that time, too, a regular single standard DirecTV HD receiver has been $500+. Even an OTA-only receiver tends to be $300+. Though I suppose they could possibly hold off another year then introduce it at a lower price.

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jmpage2 is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 11:07 AM
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jmpage2
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I paid $99 for my DirecTivo unit almost 3 years ago.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 11:15 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by jmpage2
I paid $99 for my DirecTivo unit almost 3 years ago.
Not HD.

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llogan is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 08:57 PM
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llogan
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quote:
Originally posted by jmpage2
I paid $99 for my DirecTivo unit almost 3 years ago.
I think this puppy's a little lost. No one thinking reasonably thought that this thing would be sub $1000 when it came out. Hell new HD tuners that CAN'T record are sometimes in the $800+ range. Thankfully, there are enough other models in the market now that you can get them below that level. If you want to be on the bleeding edge, don't complain about bleeding a bit when it happens. Otherwise, sit comfortably back in your chair and wait the 12-18 month cycle until it becomes 'safe' to get in the water by which time the 'new' thing will out, whatever that may be. You'll pay something much closer to what you're obviously wanting to, you just won't have had the functionality for a year to a year and a half.

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2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
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jmpage2 is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 10:09 PM
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Oh yes, criticize the thing and all of a sudden you're some cheap SOB who just doesn't "get it".

Give me a break. I spend thousands of dollars on new electronics every year (my home is stuffed with them as any of my friends could attest to) and am a model "new adopter". I can afford the $1K for the new HDTivo. The point that I am making is that this thing is not delivering for its $1K price point. I am not going to run around with my tongue hanging out as many of you are doing at the very thought of recording and timeshifting HD with so many limitations on a $1000 product compared to other Tivo products.

Inability to use both sets of output feeds at one time?

No coax out for home distribution?

Lack of tivo to go?

No home media even as an option?

These are basic things that should be on the Tivo flagship model.

And then to top it off the pathetic lineup of channels that DirecTV offers for HD and you have to pay an extra $11/month just to get the few that they do have... meanwhile local cable providers are offering free HD boxes and an HD lineup as part of their cable packages. I think DirecTV is asking to have it's lunch eaten and they are lucky they have a monopoly on HDTivo.

I'm not a lost puppy, but you evidently are a bit of a jerk for ridiculing anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view.

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weldon is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 10:39 PM
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weldon
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Everyone should realize that the high-capacity DirecTiVo's are $350 to existing subs, and this new box has an even bigger hard drive. Add $600+ for TWO functioning HD tuners and you're right at the $1000 price point without any new features.

Now does it have all the features that I would like... certainly not. But does it represent a decent value... sure.

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pkscout is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 11:03 PM
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pkscout
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quote:
Originally posted by jmpage2
Inability to use both sets of output feeds at one time?

No coax out for home distribution?

Lack of tivo to go?

No home media even as an option?



Let's see. Don't need it, don't need it, and the last two are tied together (yes I'd like them). Balanced with being able to actually timeshift HD. That was an easy choice for me. Let's see, cable DVR. HD? Only in a few areas. HMO/TTG functionality? Nope. Coax distribution. I assume for SD content only. Doesn't seem like the cable boxes provide much better trade off decisions.

You might want to take that chip off your shoulder while you're at it. He never said you didn't get it, just that comparing a deal you got three years ago on a DTiVo isn't much comparison to now.

If you'll excuse me I'll go back to keeping my tongue from hanging out too far. I wouldn't want to offend your sensibilities.

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llogan is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 12:09 AM
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llogan
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No tongue wagging here, just think $1k is perfectly reasonable for what we're getting. If they wanted to take an extra year to add in your stuff, no problem, I'd pay whatever price point it'd be at then too cause it'd be worth it. There's nothing else in my mind that comes close at the moment.

Anyway, some guy wanted a DVD player built into this thing, my response was, "Yeah I want Brooke Burke to wake me up every day too but that ain't gonna happen" in this thread

You're perfectly entitled to your point of view and I'm entitled to say that I think you want more than you'll ever get. I'm pretty happy with the feature set that's been discussed. It's far from perfect but it's a start.

It's a bargain really, considering that it's maintaining the 'dual tuner' capability and even taking that up a notch so that it's using 2 or 4 actual tuners. That alone is HUGE. I look at these other HD receivers that have one SAT input and one OTA input and the expense and I give a lot of credit to the development teams that have been working on this for so long now. It is so incredibly difficult to maintain a $1k price point with everything that they've done.

And I don't feel that your comment about the $99 DirecTivo was in any way relevant to the point you were making. I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you took it that way, oh well.

I too have a wishlist for what I wish this thing would do but I don't blame DirecTV or Tivo for not delivering on it

1) Native pass through (not in its initial release, later this year hopefully)
2) Firewire output (likely to never happen)
3) Separate ATSC inputs and the ability for the unit to dynamically task them to whichever antenna is carrying the signal of the show as prioritized in the Season Pass list OR if DirecTV would just carry HD locals
4) Simultaneous output of HD and SD resolutions from the HD receiver
5) web based control of programming 'Tivo to Go' or whatever
6) PIP or at the very least seeing a preview window of video when in the guide

As seen in this thread

As for programming, I too wish they had more channels and that's probably a bigger beef to me than anything to do with the HD Tivo, but I'm happy with what I've got for now.

__________________
12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
Tivo soldier since 12/99

Last edited by llogan on 01-23-2004 at 06:29 AM

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MCodanti is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 01:16 AM
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MCodanti
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quote:
Originally posted by jmpage2
I am not going to run around with my tongue hanging out as many of you are doing at the very thought of recording and timeshifting HD with so many limitations on a $1000 product compared to other Tivo products.

Inability to use both sets of output feeds at one time?

No coax out for home distribution?

Lack of tivo to go?

No home media even as an option?

These are basic things that should be on the Tivo flagship model.



Of course this isn't a Tivo model.. It is a Hughes model, with software written by Tivo as specified by DirecTV.... I am sure Tivo would love to put all those features on, but DirecTV appears not to be ready, if they ever will be.

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jim_arrows is offline Old Post 01-23-2004 05:10 AM
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jim_arrows
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Mmm, Brooke Burke in HD...

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midas is offline Old Post 01-23-2004 07:27 AM
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midas
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quote:
Originally posted by jmpage2
Oh yes, criticize the thing and all of a sudden you're some cheap SOB who just doesn't "get it".




Well I won't call you a cheap SOB, but I do think, to some extent, you don't get it. You are trying to compare the HDTivo to the SA Tivo rather than the DirecTivo. And that's just not fair.

No DTivo offers any of the HMO features. It's not in DirecTV's interest to make it easy for you to use one receiver to distribute a signal throughout your house. They want you to spent that extra $5 per month on extra receivers.

The fact is, the HDTivo just needs to be a better product than their competition and that's the 921 from Dish. And I think the HDTivo as it's configured today blows that thing away. That's the only thing you can base a feature set and price point against. IMO it's not even a horse race.

As far as the HD programming offered on DirecTV goes, that's for you to decide. I personally don't pay for the HD package right now. I might after the HDTivo arrives. The fact is, I'll be saving $5 a month because I'll use it to replace a DirecTivo and a regular HD receiver. So adding the HD package at that point will only be $6 a month more.

But to try to put a value on it, again I ask, what are you comparing it to? The package at Dish? What your local cable company offers? Or how about what they charge for other premium packages like HBO or Starz? The number of channels offered when looked at from that viewpoing isn't so bad.

However, I just don't see what the lack of value in the HD package has to do with the value of the HDTivo. I'm just looking at the ABT website and the Sony HD reciever is $700. How many hours does that one record? Oh yea, none. And you're trying to tell me that being able to record 30 hours of HD, and doing two shows at once isn't worth an extra $200? OK, so this isn't a Sony. The Huges is still just under $500. Being able to record 250 hours of SD content isn't worth $400 more than that? Yea sorry, I do think you just don't get it.

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Todd is offline Old Post 01-23-2004 07:58 AM
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Todd
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quote:
Originally posted by midas
[B]No DTivo offers any of the HMO features. It's not in DirecTV's interest to make it easy for you to use one receiver to distribute a signal throughout your house. They want you to spent that extra $5 per month on extra receivers....



...which they'll still get since you'll have another DTiVo box and the mirroring fee still applies.

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midas is offline Old Post 01-23-2004 08:14 AM
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midas
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd
...which they'll still get since you'll have another DTiVo box and the mirroring fee still applies.


The question is whether that is true or not. Since no DirecTivo unit that does HMO exists at this point, we just don't know. Since the distribution is done via ethernet, would you actually need one hooked up to a dish to make it work? Would it need to be activated? And frankly, Tivo doesn't really care if that network signal can be compromised. Yea, legally they should be, but as long as they show a best faith effort their OK. But DTV has a vested interest in the security of how it's done. I also think it adds a level of complexity to the box that they don't want to introduce.

But that's really all for another topic and another forum. The real point is NO DIRECTV unit does HMO right now. There's no reason to expect the HDTivo to support it at this point in time.

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mdryja is offline Old Post 01-24-2004 12:14 PM
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I'm a bit disappointed that DirecTV is taking over complete hardware mfg'ing and branding, ala Echo, although it seems that as of late, most DirecTV receivers were just copies of a reference design, regardless of the name on the box. A long time ago, it seemed that you could pick from a number of different types of DirecTV receivers, each with different options.

I would really like to have that type of choice for the DirecTV-Tivo units, especially the HD unit. Different manufacturers would presumably offer different options (within allowable limits -- HMO being more of something controlled by DTV, but I'm thinking of things like native pass-through, simultaneous SD/HD outputs, etc). Right now, we have to take just what DTV gives us -- similar to Echo.

At the very least, I always felt that DTV would best offer at least three models of each type of product: the value series (which they can give away for free to new subs), the regular series (which most people would buy), and the premium series, which people on this forum would strive for. In the context of HD-Tivo-DirecTV, my guess is that there wouldn't really be a value series, but perhaps the premium series would offer more options. I'd love to have bi-directional rs232 control, so that I can integrate the unit more readily into my HT setup, as well as have the box report the current channel and other info to my HTPC.

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