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>>> Does anyone feel like they are being ripped off <<<

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Morg111 is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 05:15 AM
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Morg111
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Does anyone feel like they are being ripped off

Why does Directv still charge customers for extra boxes when we own them (paying in many cases, hundreds if not close to a thousand dollars)? I can see the extra charge being applied when using multiple digital cable boxes because you don't have to pay for the box itself (thus its a rental fee). When cable companies first started and had no competition they charged for each additional line. Does anyone feel like they are being ripped off???

Marc

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Rcrew is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 05:45 AM
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Rcrew
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Nope, not me.

I think the mirror fee is reasonable. There's no TiVo fee for multiple units.

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tomr is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 05:50 AM
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tomr
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"Ripped-Off", No.
"Unreasonable", Maybe.

They charge because they can. I don't think they should but hey, I don't run the company. They get an extra $14.97 per month from me and alot of others.

I think it should be built-in to the overall price of the service or given a break if you order their Premier service, just like they waive the Tivo fee for Premier service.

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Darin is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 06:11 AM
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Ditto tomr. The only reason I think they could claim for the fee is more receivers on average means more support. But certainly not $5/month worth of support. To me, $2 would be much more reasonable, and surely STILL be much more than the cost of additional support they may cause.

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jautor is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 07:30 AM
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I agree that they shouldn't have charged $5/receiver, and that $2 would have been better, but I think there's zero chance this will ever change now. I've talked to folks at DirecTV several times about this, and while they'd admit that they probably would have been better off not charging for this from the start (meaning that they'd have more subscribers now), there's no way they can stop it now...

Let's say the average DirecTV household has something like 1.4 receivers (I'm making that number up, but I think the actual number is higher than that). 11M customers, say $2.00/month average fee, gives them $22M/month, or $66M a quarter of mostly profit. Very, very unlikely anyone in any business would be able to justify dropping that unless there was severe market pressure.

Now, one thing that is changing, from both DirecTV and Dish, are the "multi-room" receivers. Philips has one for DirecTV (don't know if it's shipping yet or not), and Dish has a 2-room, and showed a 4-room prototype. These are essentially multiple receivers sharing one access card, which means that you only pay for one. You could build a 2 room setup without mirroring fees - but the installation cost / cabling issues have to be added to this equation in my mind...

Jeff

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tomr is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 08:51 AM
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tomr
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Here's a quote From Dan Collins over at dbsforums.com

"There are an estimated 24 million "regular" DirecTV receivers in use today, plus about 1 million DirecTiVos, plus about 100,000 UltimateTVs and about 750,000 HD capable receivers."


So it looks like an average of two receivers per customer generating appx
$59,880,000 per month. Nope, they ain't gonna stop that cash cow.


Here's a link where he makes the statement :

LINK

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tomo_kun is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 09:02 AM
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Why feel ripped off? you are useing the service on other boxes. you are adding the ability to use the service in annother room (and pay for it fairly for programmer costs). its just 5 dollars a month, not like cable wich is (here, for the DVR) 12.95 for the box, 6.99 for a remote PLUS a 7 dollar mirrior. 26.04 dollars!

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Skankboy is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 09:11 AM
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Skankboy
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How about any receiver after the 4th is free? They wouldn't lose much money this way and I could wire all my rooms up...

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Morg111 is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 11:54 AM
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Morg111
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OH,



Ok, I have Verizon DSL for my internet connection. I will send them an email telling them that it is alright to charge me extra because not only I use my (multiple) connections. Please.........., just because all of us are receiving a better source of entertainment feed (at this point competition may not make that such a better choice) doesn't mean that it should cost us per room. If you are all content with paying extra, you might as well ask banks to charge you $5 to withdraw "your" money out of an ATM. We are not a bar entertaining 10, 20, 60, 100 people. We are a single family, just hoping to provide some comfort to ourselves and our families. Before responding, please seek logic on this issue. It is a service provided for mass consumption needs. Do any of you know how much it costs the telecommunication companies to send voice data.

Marc

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Rocket Surgeon is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 12:12 PM
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Rocket Surgeon
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If you change your DirecTV subscription to premium service (platinum?), paying for all channels (about $100/month), you won't have to pay any monthly fees for TiVo... So you got that goin' for you, which is nice.

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MCodanti is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 01:29 PM
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MCodanti
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Morg111: I thought that at least some of the program providers (HBO, Showtime, etc..) charged a few per possible viewing device.

The difference between your DSL comparision and TV, is that with DSL you are sharing a fixed amount of bandwidth with all your devices... If you use it all on your PC, your wife will get upset that her surfing is slow. With TV each extra box you are paying for can watch anything, totally unhampered by all the other boxes.

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pkscout is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 06:53 PM
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pkscout
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quote:
Originally posted by Morg111
OH,



Ok, I have Verizon DSL for my internet connection. I will send them an email telling them that it is alright to charge me extra because not only I use my (multiple) connections. Please..........



Um, you might want to check your user agreement. Many DSL and cable providers provide you *one* IP address to use and you have to pay extra for anymore. Most are OK with you using a NAT, but I know of a couple that at least used to specifically say you couldn't use a NAT router and you had to pay *per device*

So that's just like DTV charging extra for each receiver.

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Darin is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 08:52 PM
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Darin
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quote:
Originally posted by MCodanti
The difference between your DSL comparision and TV, is that with DSL you are sharing a fixed amount of bandwidth with all your devices... If you use it all on your PC, your wife will get upset that her surfing is slow.

That could work both ways. You COULD say that with the internet, actual bandwidth consumption will double, because two people are using it (even though each may take a little longer to get their data if they are requesting it simultaneously). Your internet bandwidth is NOT fixed, it's just that the bandwidth RATE is CAPPED. DirecTV is the one that is sending out a fixed amount of bandwidth. Their bandwidth is not affected regardless if no one is watching TV, or you have 10 different receivers all on different channels.

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Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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Darin is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 08:56 PM
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Darin
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quote:
Originally posted by pkscout
Most are OK with you using a NAT, but I know of a couple that at least used to specifically say you couldn't use a NAT router and you had to pay *per device*

Is that STILL the case? I know when I first got cable internet five years ago, they said they didn't support home networks (unless you paid extra for the additional connections), but they didn't actually prevent you from using NAT. Now, it seems that most broadband providers use the ability to network computers and share a connection as a marketing tool, they ADVERTISE your ability to do that, as it's not as easy with dial-up.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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jautor is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 11:15 PM
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jautor
Also wants a pony

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quote:
Originally posted by Morg111
If you are all content with paying extra, you might as well ask banks to charge you $5 to withdraw "your" money out of an ATM.

...snip...

Do any of you know how much it costs the telecommunication companies to send voice data.



Again, price vs. cost...

I wouldn't say anyone is "content with paying extra" - but that's the reality of the market for this service. I would rather that they didn't charge for extra receivers, but at least until the HD-DirecTiVo ships, I have two receivers (TiVo plus an HD receiver) for one person. I decided that it was worth the extra $5/month for the 2nd receiver.

I don't, and wouldn't pay $5 to withdraw my money out of an ATM a block from my house. I would (and have) switched banks over such practices. That's the market talking! But when I'm 6000 miles from home, and I need cash, and there's an ATM nearby, and it says it will cost $5 to get money, would I use it. Yes.

As for the telecom services, here's a better comparison. You can have as many phones in your house as you want (no extra charges for that anymore, pre-1980 we all paid rental fees for every phone in the house). But can I *buy* 4 cell phones to leave on in the car, my desk drawer, etc. Sure. Will the provider charge me more for those extra phones? You betcha... Different market, different competition.

Jeff

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dr_mal is offline Old Post 01-14-2004 11:43 PM
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I'll be $5 ahead when the HD TiVo comes out. Right now, I'm paying mirroring fees for a SD TiVo and the HD Receiver. HD TiVo replaces both those boxes and saves me one mirroring fee. I'm happy with that.

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Morg111 is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:12 AM
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Morg111
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quote:
But can I *buy* 4 cell phones to leave on in the car, my desk drawer, etc. Sure. Will the provider charge me more for those extra phones? You betcha... Different market, different competition.


You are correct in saying that they are different markets, but, both face the same competitive challenges. The point is that with real "markets" there, in most cases, are more than one other competitor, thus forcing companies to offer their services/products at lower price levels or with enhanced features (still making huge profits). There are cell phone companies that offer multiple phones to share a set monthly amount of minutes for no extra charge. Just as broadband with a finite amount of bandwidth. I have a router the allows my wife to use her laptop wirelessly while I sit in my office typing to you guys. We, as a single family, pay for the service and use it to the best possible result once it enters are walls. The IRS recognizes us as one family. Directv seems to consider us the same entity when they offer programming packages titled, "Family", however they break us up when it comes to using their service once it enters our walls. All I am saying is that I don't consider that logically fair. Sitting back and saying, "well, there is nothing I can do about it", is easy, but we all know nothing would get done if that happened with everything. I can say with pride that I sent many letters out to politcal officials complaining of monopoly when Directv wanted to buy Dish. Those extra boxes would have cost a lot more now if that had happened. Anyway, just venting with the hope that it sinks in to someone's head.

I'm done for now,

Marc

PS-

quote:
11M customers, say $2.00/month average fee, gives them $22M/month, or $66M a quarter of mostly profit. Very, very unlikely anyone in any business would be able to justify dropping that unless there was severe market pressure.


They should attract more customers if they want that money, period!

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Darin is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:22 AM
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FWIW, Dish was trying to buy DirecTV, not the other way around.

Personally, I think the chances of the multiple receiver fee going away is lower than it used to be. The biggest competitor DirecTV has is cable, not Dish (depending on what market you look at). It seems that the "and we don't charge you extra for every TV" claim is going away on cable now that they are going digital, and requiring receivers to get their programming. Although I'm not very familiar with the various cable company rates, it seems that many charge $5 per receiver, just like DirecTV. Of course, in that case, it's a lease, but you can get deals with DirecTV that make basic receivers essentially free anyway (and at least it's yours afterwards).

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Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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shaydj is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:29 AM
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shaydj
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Wait a minute,

are we talking about directv w/tivo that they charge an extra fee or all dtv receivers? i don't have directv yet but will switch to it after hd tivo comes out. am i going to have to pay additional monthly fees if i have more than one receiver?

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Morg111 is offline Old Post 01-15-2004 12:29 AM
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Lightbulb

quote:
FWIW, Dish was trying to buy DirecTV, not the other way around


Sorry, thats what I meant.

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>>> Does anyone feel like they are being ripped off <<<

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