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>>> Does anyone feel like they are being ripped off <<<

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jdk is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 04:52 AM
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jdk
Senior Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 361

I have yet to hear of any specific cases of DirecTV disabling, or charging double or triple because you haven't plugged your receiver into the phone line, or plugged then into 2 different lines in your house. Has anyone else?

(edit - it is well known that if you order multiple PPVs through the remote, but don't have a phone line plugged in, your remote-control PPV ordering capability is turned off... but the box still works for regular TV)

There's been many subjects covering this on the various boards. There's a lot of people chiming in with "I've never plugged mine in - works fine!". Another big part of this discussion is the legality and morality of the various options available to you by taking advantage of DirecTV's blind-eye.

While not rehashing those discussion's here, it basically up to each individual to decide what level of legalality or moralily they'll follow, w.r.t having an 'extra' receiver on your account, but sitting at a family or friend's house....


However, it IS specifically called out in the Terms of Service, and mentioned any time you activate a new receiver. Therefore, they COULD start enforcing the rule and start charging you.

You then couldn't demand your money back or sue DirecTV over this, as its clearly stated. Of course, you wouldn't be happy - and I think this plays a lot into exactly why DirecTV hasn't enforced this rule to date. While they might catch many people with extra recievers 'in my house... but actaully 10 miles away at a friend's house', they'd also get some very upset and irate customers who just accidentally didn't plug their receiver into the wall...

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llogan is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 05:05 AM
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llogan
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About six months ago, I ran about 5000 feet of new RG6, Cat5e (some lines for Ethernet, some lines for phones). I haven't finished making all of the connections yet, so I basically didn't have any of my receivers hooked to a phone line for the last 6 months, I was able to order PPV movies with no problem and DirecTV never said anything about it. I think when I hook the lines back up tonight though that the cards will offload a lot of that data and my next bill will be a little bigger, LOL. There's a threshold at which the card in a receiver will cease allowing you to order PPV because it's 'maxed out' if it's not connected to a phone line.

__________________
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goony is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 06:47 AM
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goony
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Posts: 104

Re: "ripoff"

If cost is the big deal you can save a lot of money by not having cable or DBS - just rabbit ears or a rooftop antenna - and no video rentals either!

------------------
I find it odd that people frequently beat it to Blockbuster to pay top $$$ for the "newest releases" and can justify that expense multiple times per month but can still complain about DirecTivo fees and additional receiver fees as being a "ripoff". Heh.

If people would really do a good analysis of their entertainment spending they might discover they are spending significant money on video rentals (and late fees!) at Blockbuster or suchlike. Do the math for your situation and you may find that getting getting DBS with at least one DVR (preferably a DirecTivo!) may be more affordable than you think.

Subscribe to channels that have programming you want and record those programs with the DVR (again, DirecTivo is the preferred box to do that) you'll find your video rental bill dropping to near zero each month - I visit Blockbuster about once every 3 months anymore and it's usually something for my wife and not me.

Even an occasional PPV on DirectTV or Dish is cheaper than a first-run Blockbuster rental and there are no "late fees" when you forget to return the rental!
------------------
I just left Dish Network, aka E*, being a customer since 1996, and have switched to DirecTV. I am quite used to paying $5/mo. for extra receivers - it's "no big deal" to me and I feel it's totally worth it.

As has been pointed out here... try to get "digital cable" in every room and see how much it costs. DBS has always needed a per-TV receiver (well, almost: the new Dish 322 and 522s are made to have one box drive two TVs and you pay only one receiver fee).

If you're coming from an analog cable TV experience then you probably do think that it's excessive to charge additional receiver fees.

In my particular situation I left cable back in 1996 to go with DBS. My cableco had lousy uptime and when it would go out it would be out for many hours at a time. I switched to DBS, got more channels for the same or less money, but also got far better reliability - the DBS "almost never" goes out, and if it does it's only for 5 to 10 minutes due to a hefty thunderstorm to my southwest (or wet snow stuck to the dish).

The reliability factor has been one of the reasons that I've stayed with DBS comapred to cable.

Last edited by goony on 01-16-2004 at 07:00 AM

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tomr is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 08:24 AM
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tomr
HDTivo and love'n it

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Red Oak,Texas
Posts: 393

quote:
Originally posted by Darin
I don't believe Caller ID block works if it's calling a toll-free call center.


That's correct, if DirecTV is footing the bill for the call they get to see the number. That has been going on long before Caller-id was around.

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FatherTed is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 08:41 AM
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FatherTed
Summer's eve pickle

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Meadville, PA
Posts: 2627

quote:
Originally posted by jdk
I have yet to hear of any specific cases of DirecTV disabling, or charging double or triple because you haven't plugged your receiver into the phone line, or plugged then into 2 different lines in your house. Has anyone else?


This hasn't been recent but they did it to me back in 2001. I had added a second receiver back in spring of 2001 and everything was fine but there was no access to a phone line where it was. After 3 months the second receiver went unsubscribed. I called in and was told that I am permitted 3 missed months of call ins. (They even gave me the call-in day of the month) and since they hadn't heard from the receiver in 3 months, the day after that third missed call-in, the receiver service was terminated. I was given two choices, either connect it to a phone line and allow it to make a successful call or be billed the full subscription amount for it.

I opted for removal.

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FatherTed is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 08:42 AM
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FatherTed
Summer's eve pickle

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Meadville, PA
Posts: 2627

quote:
Originally posted by tomr
That's correct, if DirecTV is footing the bill for the call they get to see the number. That has been going on long before Caller-id was around.


That's correct. It's called ANI, Automatic Number Identification. Caller-ID blocking has no effect on it.

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ElfenMagic is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 09:08 PM
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ElfenMagic
Cookie Maker

Registered: Nov 2003
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Required to subscribe to locals for HD?

I just thought of this potential way to save a few bucks (2 - 5 a month):

I live in a market where all my local channels broadcast in digital (though not all in HD). Suppose I own a single TV and I currently get TC+ w/locals for $40 a month. As I understand it, with a HD DirecTV receiver, I will be able to get my local digital channels OTA (it's for all digital channels, not just HD, right?), and they will be integrated into the Guide. So....

Question 0: do I even need to sign up for the D* HD package ($11 a month)? (this question has been asked before somewhere, but I couldn't find an answer, other than "there is a 1-year commitment when buying the HD receiver.")

Question 1: can I downgrade to TC+ w/o locals for $38 a month and still get the integrated digital locals OTA? (hey, two bucks is two bucks! And the difference is 39 - 34 = $5 for those with regular TC).

Question 2: do the answers to Questions 0 and 1 change with respect to HDDirectTivo when it arrives?

Question 3: when D* starts beaming network HD (like the upcoming CBS), must I have a) the HD package; and/or b) a locals package; to receive them?

Back to the bakery.

-EM

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JohnTivo is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 09:23 PM
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JohnTivo
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Re: Required to subscribe to locals for HD?

quote:
Originally posted by ElfenMagic
I just thought of this potential way to save a few bucks (2 - 5 a month):

I live in a market where all my local channels broadcast in digital (though not all in HD). Suppose I own a single TV and I currently get TC+ w/locals for $40 a month. As I understand it, with a HD DirecTV receiver, I will be able to get my local digital channels OTA (it's for all digital channels, not just HD, right?), and they will be integrated into the Guide. So....

Question 0: do I even need to sign up for the D* HD package ($11 a month)? (this question has been asked before somewhere, but I couldn't find an answer, other than "there is a 1-year commitment when buying the HD receiver.")

Question 1: can I downgrade to TC+ w/o locals for $38 a month and still get the integrated digital locals OTA? (hey, two bucks is two bucks! And the difference is 39 - 34 = $5 for those with regular TC).

Question 2: do the answers to Questions 0 and 1 change with respect to HDDirectTivo when it arrives?

Question 3: when D* starts beaming network HD (like the upcoming CBS), must I have a) the HD package; and/or b) a locals package; to receive them?

Back to the bakery.

-EM



To answer your last question, no you do not need the HD package to get CBS in HD, but you DO need the locals package.

__________________
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llogan is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 10:00 PM
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llogan
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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Reston, VA (Washington DC)
Posts: 607

Re: Required to subscribe to locals for HD?

quote:
Originally posted by ElfenMagic
Question 0: do I even need to sign up for the D* HD package ($11 a month)? (this question has been asked before somewhere, but I couldn't find an answer, other than "there is a 1-year commitment when buying the HD receiver.")-EM


If you get the HD promo that they're running $399 for HD receiver, Phase III dish and installation then you are committing to "any TOTAL CHOICE programming package plus the HD Package for 12 consecutive months" as quoted from the letter they sent to me.

If you get your HD receiver via other means, then you don't have to have a commitment to the HD package for 12 months.

Now, keep in mind, this is what the letter said, it doesn't mean that they'll enforce it necessarily and that only applies if you opted to purchase the HD equipment promo.

__________________
12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
Tivo soldier since 12/99

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Darin is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 10:00 PM
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Darin
Way Left

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
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And to answer the question before your first question (??), I have heard mention that the HD receiver deal (was $399, now $99) requires a year subscription to the HD package, when *I* got on that deal, all she told me was I had to commit to a year of Total Choice. I'd expect the answer I got to be the actual case, but I can't guarantee that.

EDIT, well never mind, llogan has an actual letter. I've not had any desire to turn off the HD package, so I haven't had a need to actually test what *I* was told when I signed up.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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PrimeRisk is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 11:56 PM
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PrimeRisk
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Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Denver, CO (or there about)
Posts: 565

Where can you find the $99 HD receiver deal? The best I can see on the DTV site is for $399. For $99 I may just get DTV for the SuperBowl!

__________________
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Series 2 TiVo TCD140060, 193 hours - Lifetime Subscription w/HMO - Dead
Series 2 TiVo TCD240040, 131 hours - Lifetime Subscription w/HMO - Haulin' Too
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ElfenMagic is offline Old Post 01-16-2004 11:59 PM
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ElfenMagic
Cookie Maker

Registered: Nov 2003
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Posts: 42

quote:
Originally posted by PrimeRisk
Where can you find the $99 HD receiver deal? The best I can see on the DTV site is for $399. For $99 I may just get DTV for the SuperBowl!


There's a 14-page monster on the DirecTivo forum...

To summarize: It looks like it's for current DTV subscribers who have been with them for about 2 years. Newer subscirbers are getting for $199. And lots of variance on whether you get it at all (luck of the CSR draw on the phone.) But looks like a great deal, otherwise.

Cookie time.

EM

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Darin is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 12:05 AM
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Darin
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There's a similar thread at AVS. It appears you have to go through customer retention, just like I did to get the $399 deal (though they also gave me a $200 programming credit, so I don't feel totally bummed now that it's $99). So the $99 may not be official, but I did see a story at one point that they were going to test such a deal in certain markets, so I expect it will be official at some point. With both Dish and Cable "giving away" HD receivers, they really have no choice.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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ElfenMagic is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 12:07 AM
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ElfenMagic
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Re: Re: Required to subscribe to locals for HD?

Let me be more precise in my Question 0:

In order for me to receive OTA channels integrated into the Guide with a DirecTV HD receiver, must I subscribe to the DirecTV HD package? (i.e., can I avoid subscribing to the package and just use the DirecTV HD receiver for standard def DirecTV, but for HD OTA)?

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Darin is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 12:13 AM
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Darin
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Well I don't have an HD-Tivo to answer your question specifically, but with any DirecTV HD receiver that I know of built to date (including my Samsung SIR-T160), the OTA reception can work stand-alone, without ANY form of DirecTV hooked up to it. I had mine hooked up for a couple weeks before I got the new dish connected to it. If I had to pull guesses out of my butt, I'd expect that on the HD-TiVo, you could tune to OTA digital channels, but you couldn't TiVo them. Used to, if you bought a TiVo, and didn't buy the susbscription to it, it would still work as a dumb recorder. Don't know if that's still the case.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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ElfenMagic is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 12:17 AM
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ElfenMagic
Cookie Maker

Registered: Nov 2003
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Posts: 42

quote:
Originally posted by Darin
Well I don't have an HD-Tivo to answer your question specifically, but with any DirecTV HD receiver that I know of built to date (including my Samsung SIR-T160), the OTA reception can work stand-alone, without ANY form of DirecTV hooked up to it. I had mine hooked up for a couple weeks before I got the new dish connected to it. If I had to pull guesses out of my butt, I'd expect that on the HD-TiVo, you could tune to OTA digital channels, but you couldn't TiVo them. Used to, if you bought a TiVo, and didn't buy the susbscription to it, it would still work as a dumb recorder. Don't know if that's still the case.


Thanks, Darin. You've mostly answered my question 0 and speculated on question 3. But what about the integrated Guide features when using your Samsung for OTA? (It does integrate the OTA channels into the Guide, right?) Does that feature go away if not hooked up to DirecTV?

EM

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Want1394 is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 12:42 AM
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Want1394
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Silicon Valley
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To receive the new HD-CBS feed, you need to subscribe to locals. You will also (if you have an OTA) populate the guide for local HD stations. You do NOT need to subscribe to the HD package for any of the above.

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Darin is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 01:41 AM
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Darin
Way Left

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quote:
Originally posted by ElfenMagic
But what about the integrated Guide features when using your Samsung for OTA? (It does integrate the OTA channels into the Guide, right?) Does that feature go away if not hooked up to DirecTV?

Well, I purposely didn't go in to that, because I'm not real sure. I'm pretty sure that programming data can be (is?) inserted into the ATSC signal. I don't know if my receiver will use it or not. When I had only OTA hooked up, the stations DID show up in my guide, but I don't think there was any programming data... I think they all said "to be announced", or something to that effect. I just don't remember for sure, but I'm pretty sure I suddenly got actual programming data AFTER I hooked up the satellite feed.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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dvdude is offline Old Post 01-17-2004 02:15 AM
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dvdude
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As guide data comes from the satellite, you'll need to have it connected to a dish to receive it.

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PrimeRisk is offline Old Post 01-19-2004 08:13 PM
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PrimeRisk
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Location: Denver, CO (or there about)
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quote:
Originally posted by rcwalters
Caller ID Block.


You can't, it's not exactly Caller ID. It is ANI (Automatic Number Identification). The D* boxes call a toll-free number and part of the deal when you call a toll-free number is that your information is forwarded to the party that's paying for the call. This information will include your telephone number, name, address, service provider, and other information. When cross-referenced with other data resources like Lexus-Nexus they can pull up your entire life...general credit rating, income, education level, how many vehicles are registered in your name, and other juicy tidbits. To put it simply, if your D* box phones home, they know where it is. There are a couple of ways around this, but that'd be hack talk so we can't go into it here.

In the next few years I think that DTV is going to have a huge problem with mirroring ripoffs. I have a few friends that have no phone service other than cell service. I do have home service, but it is Vonage and DTiVos can't call out over these lines very often. It will be interesting to see what their solution is.

__________________
Series 1 Phillips HDR112, 93 hours - Lifetime Subscription - Loaner TiVo
Series 2 TiVo TCD140060, 193 hours - Lifetime Subscription w/HMO - Dead
Series 2 TiVo TCD240040, 131 hours - Lifetime Subscription w/HMO - Haulin' Too
Series 2 TiVo TCD240080, 80 hours - Lifetime Subscription w/HMO - Haulin' Tres
Series 2 DTiVos (3 x DSR7000s), 120+ hours
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