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>>> Can we use Music stored on a server that does not run Tivo software ? <<<

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avillait is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 05:28 AM
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avillait
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Can we use Music stored on a server that does not run Tivo software ?

Hi,

Since I do not keep my computer running all the time, it would be good to have TIVO use Music files or Photographs from a FTP server that my ISP provides.

Is this possible or in plan ?

-Anil

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Austin Bike is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 08:40 AM
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Austin Bike
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No, HMO requires the TiVo software. It communicates with the software, not with the server.

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cbordman is offline Old Post 01-21-2004 08:27 PM
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cbordman
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if your ISP will let you run CGI/Perl scripts, then it could work.

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Timber is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 04:20 AM
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Timber
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Media Center (http://www.musicex.com/mediacenter/) will also serve MP3's but you do need an application running on the PC with the MP3s.

-=Tim=-

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avillait is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 05:03 AM
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avillait
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So it appears that it is not possible to keep your music on a server that does not run some proprietary software.

In the future with most of our files going online, it would be a good feature to be able to access the files using FTP or HTTP.

I guess I will not purchase HMO. It seems pretty expensive to have to keep a particular computer dedicated and up all the time just to listen to music when the same is already available online at my ISP.

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kitsap is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 07:51 AM
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kitsap
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How much music do you have online at your ISP? (They must have great prices on disk storage.) Do you normally listen to music on your computer by streaming it from your ISP?

(Sorry, I've just never heard of doing this!)

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Austin Bike is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 08:41 AM
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Well, you could extend the metaphor even further and say that we want to ba able to access internet radio directly over the web without having a computer in between. There are several options out there now that will do this. That probably has more impact than FTP in my opinion.

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kitsap is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 10:07 AM
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kitsap
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Yes, I can definitely see the Internet Radio advantages. I do that now through HMO, and it does have to go through the PC. Of course, the PC is doing some work that the Tivo can't presently handle, and I don't know how difficult it would be to place those functions on board the Tivo.

The idea of storing large amounts of music data on an ISP's server just astounds me, however. While I have several hundred MBs of space at my ISP, it costs me a freaking fortune, and I'm not about to put MP3s up there. I can't imagine transferring MP3s that I want to hear in my home to a remote location ... so I can hear them in my home. Hundreds of GBs on my local PC cost a tiny, tiny fraction of online storage costs ... plus doing it that way doesn't involve the Rube Goldberg-like inefficiency.

BTW, do people really turn their PCs off? I hope they're not doing it every day.

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avillait is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 01:17 PM
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avillait
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The question is not how much my ISP charges but the fact that all the TIVO needs to do is access JPG and MP3 files for which it does not need any software to be installed on every computer (polluting the environment).

Instead of an ISP, imagine a Network attached storage (NAS) device that does not run either windows/unix nor does it allow you to install any software. But just provides a large file system where you can store your JPG/MP3 files.

I prefer streaming this data to my 3 machines at home, 2 at work or across the world to my parents all from one collection of files which may include video clips that I make in future with my digicam.

The issue is that since Tivo is already based on OpenSource Linux, why would developers go to such extent to invent new programs that limit them to a few platforms when they could just as well have used FTP/HTTP for simple file access.

The same argument applies to TIVO's use of the USB 1.1 interface which seems to be totally unnecessary considering the fact that the Linux stack supports Ethernet/IP. Now we have to go an extra hop to jump from USB to Ethernet to connect to ANY network. Had they just supplied an ethernet interface, they would not have to deal with issues with different wireless/wired adaptors and other supportability issues.

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HDTiVo is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 09:11 PM
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HDTiVo
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>same argument applies to TIVO's use of the USB 1.1 interface

Not only that, but considering that 2.0 was standard and didn't cost more at the time of the product development, how could they have been so foolish to ship the first series 2s with 1.1?????

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My SA60 TiVo works fine.
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I use it ALL the time. (Unless I'm using my SA80 or SA120 or SA40.)
I don't have ANY of the problems mentioned in this Forum.

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themoviebuff is offline Old Post 01-22-2004 09:31 PM
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themoviebuff
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uhm, okay

Well maybe you have enough money or resources to host several Gb of mp3s on a hosted server, or maybe you are not concerned over the RIAA lawsuit, however many people can not afford (or understand ftp well enough for that matter) to do things as you suggest. I think TiVo is simply going for the biggest audience. Why would TiVo make the assumption that in addition to the monthly (or lifetime) subscription cost and the initial equipment cost they should also host their mp3s elsewhere? I understand that you probably mean that you would like support for this and not that everyone should do it this way, but really, how many people would do it your way? For the cost of hosting such a server for a year you could buy a dedicated machine and just leave it running or buy a second hard drive for your existing pc and serve them up from there. Tivo can also hardly openly show support for file sharing considering the RIAA lawsuit. Just my humble opinion.

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Last edited by themoviebuff on 01-23-2004 at 09:53 PM

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Austin Bike is offline Old Post 01-23-2004 09:32 AM
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Austin Bike
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Good point.

I'd rather add a second HD to Tivo and use that to host my music since it's always on anyway.

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avillait is offline Old Post 01-23-2004 10:51 PM
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avillait
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I don't think you folks get the point.

It is not an issue of where to host your music or whatever it is that you want to view/hear. The point is do you want to host the same music files on your PC at home, desktop at work, laptop on the move, iPod in the car or on Tivo's second disk as someone suggested or your ISP.

The fact remains that if you want to manage the various locations for your music lists, it seems very foolish specially since Tivo relies on open-source software.

By allowing your music to be accessible from Tivo using FTP/HTTP you could just specify a web address to get the stuff and then you can use that same music on your MP3 phone as well. Do you plan on carrying a 2GB for your phone ? With broadband and HMO it is easy for TIVO to stream that music from anywhere. Why does it have to be a local PC.

Also there are sites that give me live radio and music which I can stream directly if the HTTP option were available instead.

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kitsap is offline Old Post 01-23-2004 11:22 PM
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kitsap
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Dude, it's a Home Media Option.

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avillait is offline Old Post 01-23-2004 11:37 PM
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avillait
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Dude, you just don't get it.

It is the Home Media Option but where is the Option ?

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ZeoTiVo is offline Old Post 01-24-2004 12:35 AM
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ZeoTiVo
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quote:
Originally posted by avillait
Dude, you just don't get it.

It is the Home Media Option but where is the Option ?



TiVo has made the strategic decision to keep options to a minimum. Mostly this is so the remote/menu functionality is clear cut one click stuff.

This limited them on how they could approach streaming. If they went down your path of FTP/HTTP - then it would work at the level of letting you store media whereever and simply but you would have no other options unless supplied by TiVo on the software in their box -- thus TiVo would have to write in the software to pull in and parse various playlists, add in shuffle play, etc.. It would limit you only to MP3 as all they have is an MPEG hardware chip in the box.

Instead they opted for the HMO approach of having a PC host software. Now they can keep the HMO menu on TiVo simple -- have the PC process all the optional stuff that is available on the PC platform

and most important for TiVo -- let third party apps like JavaHMO, Moodlogic, XM radio etc.. do the parts they do best and also do the work of tying thier products into HMO interface. TiVo stays simple and the PC can get as complicated or as simple as the user wants. That is why I think The TiVo supplied HMO desktop software is so plain and functionless.

Seriously, if you have a home network and do not have a PC that you can keep on and run HMO in the background on then why have a home network ?

Also check out AllMiMedia http://www.allmimedia.com/ and click on products to see how HMO and TiVo can be used to do this streaming you want from your one source for files Home PC.

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Whoops, missed that Zeo did address this in his reply. ZeoTiVo is right! - TiVoOpsMgr

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Last edited by ZeoTiVo on 01-24-2004 at 12:45 AM

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Dennis Wilkinson is offline Old Post 01-24-2004 01:02 AM
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Dennis Wilkinson
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quote:
Originally posted by avillait
So it appears that it is not possible to keep your music on a server that does not run some proprietary software.


The protocol that TiVo uses is published, so someone familiar with CGI/Perl/language of your choice could write non-proprietary SW that, assuming your ISP would allow it to be installed (which I doubt), would make this possible. javaHMO, for example, acts as a TiVo server, and last I checked TiVo Inc. had nothing to do with it.

The TiVo Desktop is really (essentially) just an HTTP server with a "well-known" CGI. You can even talk to it with a web browser if you know the protocol.

I don't know that anything will make it practical to do what you describe, though.

If your issue is just keeping stuff on a server, as long as you can mount space on that server as a file system on your local machine your local machine could act as "server" for the TiVo protocol while actually storing the files elsewhere (for example, I could store MP3s on an FTP site, use ftp_fs to mount the FTP server into my file system, and let jamaHMO serve them up, at the expense of twice the network traffic -- once from the server to the local box then again to the TiVo.) Again, not practical (and probably not what you're asking for) but possible.

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HDTiVo is offline Old Post 01-26-2004 09:05 PM
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HDTiVo
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On the assumption that one is willing to use a (low cost) PC as an always on server, if one has a static IP address couldn't one access that PC server from TiVoes anywhere, incl. office, country house, friends house...??

__________________
My SA60 TiVo works fine.
I love it.
I use it ALL the time. (Unless I'm using my SA80 or SA120 or SA40.)
I don't have ANY of the problems mentioned in this Forum.

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Dennis Wilkinson is offline Old Post 01-26-2004 10:15 PM
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Dennis Wilkinson
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quote:
Originally posted by HDTiVo
On the assumption that one is willing to use a (low cost) PC as an always on server, if one has a static IP address couldn't one access that PC server from TiVoes anywhere, incl. office, country house, friends house...??


As long as that machine is addressable (doesn't need to have a static IP if you can reliably discover the dynamic one), and the right port (8101?) is accessible, you could use it anywhere given sufficient point-to-point bandwidth, yes.

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HDTiVo is offline Old Post 01-27-2004 12:04 AM
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HDTiVo
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Then what this person wants could be done with a $350 PC and $200 big HD added on?

__________________
My SA60 TiVo works fine.
I love it.
I use it ALL the time. (Unless I'm using my SA80 or SA120 or SA40.)
I don't have ANY of the problems mentioned in this Forum.

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