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>>> Why I won't preorder HD Directivo <<<

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jrock is offline Old Post 02-17-2004 09:44 PM
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jrock
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 424

Re: price drop?

quote:
Originally posted by tgibbs
However, that's assuming that demand will be higher. But a price of $1K at a time when HD program material is still in somewhat short supply may limit demand as well.


Value Electronics already sold out there first shipment from only advertising a deal to users of this Forum and is already taking orders for the second shipment and that could be almost sold out as well. Imagine when the rest of the people that do not use the Forums find out about the HD DirecTiVo, I know whenever I mention it on other HD Forums people are like oooo HD TiVO when where what how much! I always give them the run down and the addy to this forum. I think it is going to be HOT HOT HOT like he said till the shipments catch up to the demand and that will probably take several months.

-Joe

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Todd76 is offline Old Post 02-18-2004 08:50 AM
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Todd76
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MichaelK - Thanks for the explanation.

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RANSOME is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 12:32 AM
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RANSOME
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quote:
According to Robert at Value........
quote:
"January 30, 2004, DIRECTV took over the HD DVR product. Many things changed regarding the distribution and delivery allocations. As of Monday February 23, 2004, I have been informed by DIRECTV that Hughes was scheduled to build 200 HR10-250's the week of March 22, 2004 and several hundred more each week thereafter. Hence, my original commitment of 300 to 350 units has been altered; they simply are not building to the original quantity on the first production run. However, the actual delivery date for the completion of the first 350 orders and including all advance orders is on target with the original time schedule."


Based on this,maybe I might rethink my original post....hmmm

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Darin is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 12:50 AM
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Darin
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quote:
Originally posted by RANSOME
Based on this,maybe I might rethink my original post....hmmm

That situation was enough to push me over the edge, I'll have to admit. Though I'm still a bit uneasy about the fact that I'm spending that kind of money to record TV. But the thought of waiting until 4th quarter was just too much. Who knows... I could still come to my senses and sell my spot I guess. But I've done dumber things with my money.

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Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
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llogan is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 01:22 AM
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llogan
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quote:
Originally posted by unixadm
Look at the HDVR2......that first came out with an MSRP of $299
We were able to pre-order at around $200 (and lower, in some cases) due to a Circuit City screw up.......
Now they are $99
I personally don't expect the price to drop on these for a while....maybe a year or so.....it is too hot of an item right now....but, if you don't mind waiting a year, you could get some good deals.

I don't happen to think the HDVR2 is a good example because there was nothing really new about it at all IMHO. An HD Tivo is a far greater leap forward. However, you make the point that it'll be a year before there's a substantial price drop with which I agree.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelK
its basically a series2 box with 2 more tuners than the SD version.

Um, no. That's absolutely ridiculous. I'm no engineer but I can see that it's a hell of a lot more complicated than a series 2 box.

__________________
12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
Tivo soldier since 12/99

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MichaelK is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 02:25 AM
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MichaelK
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quote:
Originally posted by llogan
....
Um, no. That's absolutely ridiculous. I'm no engineer but I can see that it's a hell of a lot more complicated than a series 2 box.




and what is the huge difference (from a hardware point of view)? It needs to know that some channels use one set of tuners and some use the other set? It has a diffent chip for output. THey had to add stick a button on the front with 3 LED's to indicate the output. It still is a box with tuners that tunes channels writes the content to hard drive and then reads from the hard drive and outputs to a tv- right?

Sure i know there are alot of little things going on here, but it isnt a quantum leap forward. If you recall posts from RB or maybe Pony at the time the series 2 came out said it was all modular and thought about how to scale the platform to many differnet configurations when they made it. I would have hoped they figured maybe they might need to make an HD one at some point. I think the series 1 to series 2 change was a much bigger difference in hardware then SD series2 combo to HD series2 combo. THey have already proven the scalability with the DVD player and the DVD-r versions no?

I just dont see from a hardware point that this is huge leap forward.


(hec- I just went back and reread my original post- i basically said the same thing but i guess you didntget my point reading that one either).

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PerfKnee is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 08:24 AM
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PerfKnee
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You have to oversimplify alot to say the HDTivo is just an HDVR2 with more tuners. I'd put that in the same oversimplification ballpark as saying that an ipod is the same thing as a DTivo. After all, they are all just devices that save a digital data stream onto a hard disk, then play it back converting to analog form.

The devil is of course in the details, and there has never been a Tivo that processed the progressive signals so all the output circuitry is completely different. As others have mentioned, single tuner HDTV receivers (just a tuner and output circuitry) still cost half a grand without subsidy.

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llogan is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 08:47 AM
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llogan
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaelK
(hec- I just went back and reread my original post- i basically said the same thing but i guess you didntget my point reading that one either).
I got your point, I just didn't agree...LOL...you're entitled to think it's the same thing as a Series 2, I just think that you're wrong

__________________
12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
Tivo soldier since 12/99

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Trauma is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 09:08 AM
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Trauma
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Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaelK


I just dont see from a hardware point that this is huge leap forward.





Original TiVo was merely a Linux box and simple server setup, no? For me, the genius is the software. Perhaps it doesn't seem to be such a leap forward, but as was mentioned, 4 HD tuners cost more than $1000, not including hard drive and peanut.

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Darin is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 10:03 AM
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Darin
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quote:
Originally posted by Trauma
4 HD tuners cost more than $1000

No they don't.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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rogo is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 01:11 PM
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rogo
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4HD tuners is <$100... Probably a lot less.

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tremor_f is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 02:41 PM
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tremor_f
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quote:
Originally posted by rogo
4HD tuners is <$100... Probably a lot less.


Especially when you consider that two of those 'tuners' are commodity high-bitrate DBS demodulators, and are not radically different from the earlier DBS demod subsystems with lower bitrate ceilings.

As with so many other products, much of the expense is in developing the hardware design in the first place, and developing & maintaining the software that runs on it. Without commodity parts the economics just wouldn't work.

-T.

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llogan is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 08:30 PM
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llogan
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I agree, the hardware's not that expensive, but the design most certainly is and since we're in a TV forum, I'll quote 'West Wing' when they were talking about supplying AIDS medication to an African nation...

Toby: The pills cost them 4 cents a unit to make.
Josh: You know that's not true. The second pill cost them 4 cents. The first pill cost them $400 million.

So all of us 'pre-orders' are buying the first pill, ok? And that doesn't make it overpriced, because there's market justification behind that first pill cause the second pill wouldn't exist without it.

__________________
12 Tivos and counting...
3xHR10-250 HD Tivos (still have to get another one I think)
2xHTL HD Receivers
1xRCA DTC100 HD Receiver
3x35 hour Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo 3.1
1x225 hour Philips DirecTivo 3.1
3x35 hour Philips DirecTivos 3.1
1x35 hour Series 2 Philips DirecTivo 3.1 DSR 7000
1x35 hour Sony SAT-T60 2.5
Tivo soldier since 12/99

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MichaelK is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 09:23 PM
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MichaelK
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I guess i'm talking circles here, but I think if you can get an answer out of Pony or someone else at Tivo they would say that the HDtivo is a Series2 device. It isnt a Series 3 or some other radical new design. THe new low cost combo on the otherhand is a completely new platform.

The software might be a whole different shabang, but i honestly think both the software and the hardware is entirely based upon the series2 and thats the way they planned it all along.

Of course ther's no way to get an answer out of someone at Tivo since its D*'s product. And even if it is based upon the series2 the motherboard might look completely different as I understand the series2 with the dvd-r looks totally different but if it looks the same - I win LOL.

If you by a PC with a tuner card and the snapstream DVR software and then later on add 3 more tuner cards- is it a completely different machine? I dont think so. A PC's hardware is modular and you can just keep plugging in cards as long as you have slots on the MB- I think Tivo designed the series2 hardware the same way. The snapstream software doesnt need do download an update or anything, they already planned for that eventuality. I think similarly Tivo already planned the core of their software for scalibility too- they handle dual tuners just fine.

I think to say that they havent planned their scheduling software to be scalable and to say they came out with a new hardware platform basically last year without planning for scalability is, to borrow llogan's words, absolutely ridiculous.

IF Tivo planned for this all along then it doesn't have to be a completely new undertaking. Considering they showed multiple Tuner HD boxes last year just months after they launched the Series2 would make me think they planned on doing it. Just beacuse they didnt previously have spaces on teh MB in a tivo for other tuners and we've never seen a 4 tuner box before doesnt mean that they didnt plan for it in the development they have done so far.

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midas is offline Old Post 03-05-2004 09:34 PM
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midas
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The market will determine if it's overpriced. Judging by the strength of pre-sales, I'd say the market doesn't think it is.

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Stevies3 is offline Old Post 03-06-2004 02:43 AM
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Stevies3
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I think it will drop when they introduce a larger capacity unit. And I believe they probably have one one the table. Just that introducing the 250mb version first seams logical. It's typical marketing. I guess it's something like the IPod when it was first introduced. A larger unit was available shortly thereafter.

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Cudahy is offline Old Post 03-06-2004 03:07 AM
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If they are only shipping 200 a week starting March 22nd, How many a week does Robert get, how many does GoodGuys get? I had the #4 preorder for good guys in January so I'm hoping they'll get part of that first 200.

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dswallow is offline Old Post 03-06-2004 03:11 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by Cudahy
If they are only shipping 200 a week starting March 22nd, How many a week does Robert get, how many does GoodGuys get? I had the #4 preorder for good guys in January so I'm hoping they'll get part of that first 200.
200 is (reportedly) just the first (partial) week's production. After that we've heard reports of anywhere from 400 to 800 units per week.

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jfischer is offline Old Post 03-06-2004 11:01 PM
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jfischer
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quote:
Originally posted by dropper
#1 I would think that a year after they were first announced, and the fact that they are an incremental product, there shouldn't be too much to "shake out".


Huh?

DirecTV's 3rd generation HDTV boxes are still riddled with bugs. What makes you think a first-generation HDTV/TiVo box won't be the same (or worse)?

I predict that the initial HD TiVo's will be fairly buggy - there's no reason to suspect that they won't be.

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Darin is offline Old Post 03-06-2004 11:10 PM
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Darin
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quote:
Originally posted by jfischer
I predict that the initial HD TiVo's will be fairly buggy - there's no reason to suspect that they won't be.

And I predict that they won't. There's no reason to believe they will be.

So there.


The only thing I expect to be a little rough is the OTA section, and things relating to it. Getting guide data for OTA stations is problematic today, and I expect it will take some time to get those kinks out. But that's not really a TiVo problem... it's problematic because it CAN be a TiVo problem, or a DirecTV problem, or a local station problem, or any combination. But beyond that, I see no reason to expect the box itself to be buggy. As an HD satellite PVR, I'm expecting it'll be reasonably bug free.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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