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>>> Good Universal Remote <<<

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 05:22 AM
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Darin
Way Left

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1908

quote:
Originally posted by MikeSRC
Just to clarify what I said earlier, the above statement is true if you're trying to copy a command that was sourced from the MXEditor IR database. Anything else (which will show up as learned with the "L" tag) can be copied from one file to another using Ctrl-V and Ctrl-P.

Thanks Mike. You know, I think I've read that before, but every time I sit down to tinker with it, I forget this... I don't think they have copy/paste available if you right-click, or in an edit menu, so I just assume it's not available, and never try using the keyboard shortcuts. As I said, I think the MXEditer could really use some enhancements... if copy/paste works, then show it in the program instead of making you remember.

Another thing that bugs me... when doing my press/hold macros, as far as I can tell, the "base" command (the one that is the initial command, before the hold) must be learned. There's a "learn & macro", but no "pre-programmed & macro". So even though the commands I want to combine are in the MXEditor database, I still have to get out my device remote and learn the command in if I want it combined with a macro. That's ESPECIALLY troublesome when you run in to discreet commands that may not be on your original device remote. For example, the only device I have that has discreet on/off on the original remote is my receiver. Just about everything else HAS a discreet on/off, but it's not on the remote. Most of my devices I have set up so if you press the "off" button very fast (0.1 seconds) it only turns off that device. But if you press it normally (longer), it turns off the whole system. To do the press/hold, I need a learned command, but my remotes don't have discreet off functions to learn from. So I end up having to scour pronto files on the web for discreet offs to import from (they always seem to show up as "learned", fortunately). If they'd just add the "pre-programmed and macro" option, I could use the built-in command.

Ok, rant over.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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Toeside is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 06:12 AM
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Toeside
Senior Member

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I have to admit, I haven't read the last two posts by Darin yet, but I'll add this: A remote, to me, has to be intuitive. Right now, while we are building our house, we are living with my inlaws. They've given me the flexibility to have a 55" HDTV and soon a HD Tivo and the rest of my home theatre crap. I'd love to tell them to use it anytime, but I simply don't have the energy to "train" them on the current setup.

This is why I ordered the Harmony H688. The activity buttons "Watch a DVD" or "Watch TiVo Television" will easily get everything switched to the appropriate inputs. Plus, the relocated transport controls should put the power of TiVo where it belongs. They are already DirecTiVo users, with an HDVR2. I really do hope that the H688 will simply "work" allowing everyone in the house to "Watch a DVD" or "Watch Tivo Television" on the new TV without a problem.

Craig

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 06:21 AM
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Darin
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Yeah, without even playing with it, I have no doubt that the Harmony is likely easier to program than the MX-700. The MX-700 can be set-up to be "activity based" like the Harmony, but getting there is probably a lot harder. Of course, it was designed to only be available through professional a/v installers, who would program it for their customers, so ease of set-up probably wasn't as high on their list.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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MikeSRC is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 06:22 AM
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MikeSRC
Tivo Veteran

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 237

quote:
Originally posted by Darin
Another thing that bugs me... when doing my press/hold macros, as far as I can tell, the "base" command (the one that is the initial command, before the hold) must be learned. There's a "learn & macro", but no "pre-programmed & macro".


With a preprogrammed command and a macro, all you have to do is add the macro to the button that the preprogrammed command's on and you'll get both. You only need the "LEARN & MACRO" for a learned command and macro (see pg. 50 of the programming manual).

Re: the URC remotes, I like the 200 better than the 300. I don't like having to "find" the commands on the touchscreen, but then I've always preferred a button remote to a touchscreen. I've been testing the MX-3000 for months now and while having color animated gif and sound abilities is cool, at the end of the day I still wind up using my MX-800. If they could add the "push-and-hold" a single command and the individual database command saving abilities to the MX-700/800 editors, I'd be a happy camper.

__________________
Enjoy!

Mike

SurfRemoteControl.com
SurfAudioVideo.com
(Original SA Tivo now in its 60th month of use)

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 06:44 AM
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Darin
Way Left

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Posts: 1908

quote:
Originally posted by MikeSRC
With a preprogrammed command and a macro, all you have to do is add the macro to the button that the preprogrammed command's on and you'll get both. You only need the "LEARN & MACRO" for a learned command and macro (see pg. 50 of the programming manual).

Thanks Mike, but I must still be doing something wrong. When I do that, the "device" drop down in the "edit and label buttons" dialog changes to macro, and in use, the macro is all that works. A press of the button under the time period designated in the macro results in nothing happening. But if held for the time period, the macro runs. The pre-programmed code is completely ignored. The "IR Code" field still has the base command, but it's grayed out. The only way I've been able to get two separate commands on one button, differentiated only by the amount of time that the button is pressed, is with "learn and macro". What am I doing wrong?

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 07:19 AM
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Darin
Way Left

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Ok, I think I know at least PART of what I'm doing wrong... in the manual, it says that it won't work on short-cutted commands. And that's what I've been doing. So then the next question is, how do you NOT use shortcutted commands, if the command is something that's on the hard buttons? I'm probably just doing it all wrong, but when I import codes from the IR database, it puts all the hard button commands on the hard buttons, and any extra commands on the LCD buttons. So how would you get FF, for example, into an LCD button without a shortcut (or learning)?

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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lhl12 is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 07:30 AM
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lhl12
Member

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8

quote:
Originally posted by MikeSRC
I'd vote for the middle one.


I prefer the one on the right, but with different labeling. I would put "Pause" and "Stop" on the two new buttons immediately above the numeric keypad and put the two Chapter Skip buttons (">>|" and "|<<") on the row above (to the left and right of the "Play" button. I would eliminate "Record" because I use it infrequently and I don't like hitting it by accident. I'd just put it up on the LCD.

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MikeSRC is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 07:59 AM
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MikeSRC
Tivo Veteran

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 237

quote:
Originally posted by Darin
So how would you get FF, for example, into an LCD button without a shortcut (or learning)?


As you noted before, that's a limitation of the software. You can't get a preprogrammed code onto an LCD button without a shortcut or learning. You'd just have to learn it unless you don't have a working original remote.

__________________
Enjoy!

Mike

SurfRemoteControl.com
SurfAudioVideo.com
(Original SA Tivo now in its 60th month of use)

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-19-2004 08:05 AM
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Darin
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Ahh, ok. So to do what I want to do, I DO have to use learned commands, just not for the reason I thought. I guess my argument about the difficulty with discreet commands goes away, since even though they are pre-programmed, the software would put them on the LCD buttons. I guess I probably just tried it with the hard buttons first, discovered I couldn't make it work without learning, and just never tried it with pre-programmed codes on the LCD buttons. Thanks for your help.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-21-2004 08:15 PM
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Darin
Way Left

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1908

quote:
Originally posted by MikeSRC
I like the 200 better than the 300. I don't like having to "find" the commands on the touchscreen, but then I've always preferred a button remote to a touchscreen.

I meant to reply to this, but forgot. I too much prefer hard buttons over a touch-screen based remote. The most important thing to me is being able to pick it up, and operate it completely by feel without having to pay attention to the remote. BUT, the LCD softbuttons on the 700/800 do play a very important role. It's nice to have the flexibility to label things as you wish, and put any number of commands on that may not be covered by hard buttons. The 700/800 is about the perfect balance to me... it has just enough hard buttons to cover 90-95% of your device operation, intuitively, without looking, but enough soft buttons to let you be as creative as you want.

But here's why I'd prefer that the LCD be touchscreen... the soft buttons, as they are now, aren't really easily operated with one hand or without looking, especially since you really need to look at the screen to see what you're operating and what page you're on. So since you mostly need to look at the screen anyway, the advantage of physical buttons pretty much goes away. BUT, if they used a touch screen, and widened the LCD display to take up the space that the LCD buttons now take, that'd be a VERY nice sized display. I'd really like to have the ability to fit more description in some of my soft buttons. And with the physical buttons gone, you could arrange the button areas any way you'd like... need a LOT of buttons? You could do three columns instead of the current two (given that the screen would be wider). Or if you only needed a few, you could split the whole screen up into quadrants, with either lots of description, and/or large graphics. The flexibility of the LCD screen could be significantly increased if it were both larger, and wasn't tied to a specific configuration as defined by the physical button layout.

Actually, what I want, is a morphing of the MX-1000 and the MX-700. Just take the touchscreen from the MX-1000, and put it in the top part of the MX-700 (trim the LCD size slightly if necessary, don't make the MX-700 larger). And make it rechargeable with a charging stand. And give it a clock with time based macros. THAT'S my perfect remote.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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MikeSRC is offline Old Post 04-21-2004 09:10 PM
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MikeSRC
Tivo Veteran

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 237

quote:
Originally posted by Darin
But here's why I'd prefer that the LCD be touchscreen... the soft buttons, as they are now, aren't really easily operated with one hand or without looking, especially since you really need to look at the screen to see what you're operating and what page you're on.


That's true except for the top and bottom (particularly the bottom) two LCD buttons, which I place my most-used LCD commands on. Those can easily be found by touch.

quote:

I'd really like to have the ability to fit more description in some of my soft buttons. And with the physical buttons gone, you could arrange the button areas any way you'd like... need a LOT of buttons?



Agreed. In fact, I'd like the ability to have increased labeling on the MX-700 as it is right now. If they let you label full screen width, you could have a 7 character name on one side and a 3 character name on the other. That has been mentioned to HTM.

quote:

Actually, what I want, is a morphing of the MX-1000 and the MX-700. Just take the touchscreen from the MX-1000, and put it in the top part of the MX-700 (trim the LCD size slightly if necessary, don't make the MX-700 larger). And make it rechargeable with a charging stand. And give it a clock with time based macros. THAT'S my perfect remote.



You may just see something like that one of these days.
For now, the closest thing is the MX-3000.

__________________
Enjoy!

Mike

SurfRemoteControl.com
SurfAudioVideo.com
(Original SA Tivo now in its 60th month of use)

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-21-2004 09:31 PM
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Darin
Way Left

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Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1908

quote:
Originally posted by MikeSRC
That's true except for the top and bottom (particularly the bottom) two LCD buttons, which I place my most-used LCD commands on. Those can easily be found by touch.

But if it were touch screen, it could still easily be found by touch, since they'd be at the edges of the screen.
quote:
If they let you label full screen width, you could have a 7 character name on one side and a 3 character name on the other. That has been mentioned to HTM.

But I would think that would require a new remote, not just updated firmware. It looks to me like the current display specifically has physical text areas, as opposed to being a full dot-matrix across the entire area.
quote:
For now, the closest thing is the MX-3000.


Ugh, I just don't see what all the commotion is about. The LAST thing I want is a remote that needs two hands. I agree with what you said... it's cool and all that, but in the end, I want something that effortlessly controls my entertainment system, not something that IS my entertainment system.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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MikeSRC is offline Old Post 04-21-2004 10:30 PM
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MikeSRC
Tivo Veteran

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 237

quote:
Originally posted by Darin
But I would think that would require a new remote, not just updated firmware. It looks to me like the current display specifically has physical text areas, as opposed to being a full dot-matrix across the entire area.



Yes, that's what I meant, a redesign of the LCD screen. Right now, you have 5 characters, space and another five. The URC-300 has the same limitation, so what's the point of the touchscreen? I'd like to see a full width, 11 character display on the MX-700, so you could put the space anywhere you want.

Regarding the MX-3000, every current color touchscreen really requires two hands to use (even if they try to pretend otherwise), so the 3000 just admits it.

As you pointed out, that's where an upgraded MX-1000 would have an advantage in being more of a one-handed touchscreen remote.

__________________
Enjoy!

Mike

SurfRemoteControl.com
SurfAudioVideo.com
(Original SA Tivo now in its 60th month of use)

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-21-2004 10:36 PM
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Darin
Way Left

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quote:
Originally posted by MikeSRC
The URC-300 has the same limitation, so what's the point of the touchscreen?

Oh, well I assumed that since it, at least appears to, have a larger screen, that maybe they at least gave it more character space. In that case, I agree, there is nothing gained.
quote:
As you pointed out, that's where an upgraded MX-1000 would have an advantage in being more of a one-handed touchscreen remote.

But I want the ergonomics & buttons of the MX-700. We'll call it an MX-1700.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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BrettStah is offline Old Post 04-21-2004 11:54 PM
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BrettStah
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 3104

So for those with the H688 Harmony remote, what buttons do you use for the Instant Replay button and Advance (or 30 second skip) button?

(I found a picture of the remote on the following page: http://www.harmonyremote.com/cutsheet_harmonyH688.htm)

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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

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bkdtv is offline Old Post 04-22-2004 12:21 AM
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bkdtv
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Brett,

You can find a picture of the production/shipping 688 right here. It's 8.1" long, if you can't tell from the picture.

You use the chapter skip ahead and skip back functions. Or at least, that's what Harmony intended. You'll notice those buttons are located right next to the buttons for guide, exit, etc. Of course, you can reconfigure the buttons if you so desire.

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Scott Corbett is offline Old Post 04-22-2004 01:19 AM
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Scott Corbett
Woodworker

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Darin,

You convinced me, my final answer is the MX-700 OB. Downloaded the tutorial and MX editor. Looks fairly straightforward.

Didn't see the exact models for my Samsung HD receiver or TV, but I can teach the MX-700 as a last resort.

Thanks.

__________________
HR10-250 (Replaced Twice)
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MX-700
It's tough without TiVo.

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Darin is offline Old Post 04-22-2004 01:33 AM
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Darin
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Oh lord, the pressure's on... it'll be all my fault if you hate it . Nah, it's great, I'm sure you'll like it. Which Samsung? I've got the TS160, and I don't think it was in their database when I got the remote. But I ended up getting it from RemoteCentral. They've got a file section where you can download complete remote configs, or individual device configs. And of course, you can also download Pronto configs, and import the commands into MXEditor. I'm sure I ended up downloading someone else's config & importing rather than learning from the original remote, because I've got the discrete on/off commands, which aren't on the original remote.

In fact, I could send you my TS160 config if you want... it will include some commands you don't want (because I tend to mix some "universal" things in to the individual devices, like lighting, TV stretch format, surround mode), but you'd have all the commands.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia

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Stephen Tu is offline Old Post 04-22-2004 02:05 AM
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Stephen Tu
Senior Member

Registered: May 1999
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Posts: 405

quote:
I prefer the one on the right, but with different labeling. I would put "Pause" and "Stop" on the two new buttons immediately above the numeric keypad and put the two Chapter Skip buttons (">>|" and "|<<") on the row above (to the left and right of the "Play" button. I would eliminate "Record" because I use it infrequently and I don't like hitting it by accident. I'd just put it up on the LCD


I agree with this 100%. My ideal remote would have this transport key layout.

quote:
So since you mostly need to look at the screen anyway, the advantage of physical buttons pretty much goes away


This isn't the case for me. Even for those commands, 98% of the time I am searching for those in the dark by feel. Very rarely am I using the backlight and actually looking for the command. For each page I commonly use, I already know certain commands are "2nd from bottom on the right side" or whatever. I keep the most used commands in the corners where they are easily findable. So I'd really prefer that they keep the buttons. If they do go touchscreen, I'd wish on the frame outside they make some raised plastic bumps so at least for the edge buttons I could still go by feel.

I also think I'd rather stick with the MX-series 10 button/page arrangement, rather than the URC-200's model, since I hate having to switch pages. But I could live with the latter if a lot of people are too intimidated by having too many commands per screen.

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Scott Corbett is offline Old Post 04-22-2004 02:21 AM
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Scott Corbett
Woodworker

Registered: May 2003
Location: Hampstead, NC
Posts: 102

quote:
Which Samsung?


I have the 360 (it is in my signature, so I did not specify). BTW, the 160 is in the MX database at this time.

I'll take a look in Remote Central for the 360, but offhand I would guess the 160 set would probably work (except maybe for discrete power commands).

Thanks.

__________________
HR10-250 (Replaced Twice)
SAT-T60 146 hours.
Samsung 360 HD Receiver.
Mitsubishi WS-55313 RP HD monitor.
MX-700
It's tough without TiVo.

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