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>>> Value of HMO? <<<

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skanter is offline Old Post 04-22-2004 10:42 AM
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skanter
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: May 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 2241

quote:
Originally posted by ultrajones
I also don't think it is worth the $99.00 price tag. While it plays MP3', displays pictures and allows remote scheduling, none of these features have been enhanced since day one. I still have the same Tivo Desktop software that fails with a time-out error when trying to selecting a folder that contains too many mp3's and/or sub-folders.

Regards,
Ultrajones



How may is "too many" MP3s or sub-folders? I haven't had this problem.
Have had about 20 sub-folders, about 200 MP3s in a folder...

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shady is offline Old Post 04-22-2004 10:19 PM
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shady
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Registered: May 2002
Location: San Mateo, California
Posts: 492

quote:
Originally posted by ultrajones
I also don't think it is worth the $99.00 price tag. While it plays MP3', displays pictures and allows remote scheduling, none of these features have been enhanced since day one. I still have the same Tivo Desktop software that fails with a time-out error when trying to selecting a folder that contains too many mp3's and/or sub-folders.

Regards,
Ultrajones



I initially had this problem, but then I installed JavaHMO and the problem went away

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Hew is offline Old Post 04-30-2004 07:14 AM
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Hew
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Well for those who think that TiVo's HMO isn't worth the 99 dollar price, sample it on May 10th for free. They are having another free trial for HMO. This time around you don't have to sign up online to get the trial, every series 2 customer will have it on May 10th. All you need for HMO to work will be to network your dvr.

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brian6170 is offline Old Post 05-02-2004 11:53 PM
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brian6170
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IMHO HMO should be included FREE for those who pay the lifetime subscription. If TIVO wants to keep growing and to start making a good profit, I believe that the HMO can give them a leg up on the Cable PVR/DVR's. Right now I will NOT be adding another TIVO to my home. However, if the HMO were standard with TIVO, then I may be more inclined to purchase another TIVO vs. going Cable PVR.

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timtas is offline Old Post 05-07-2004 02:58 AM
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timtas
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HMO Disappointing

I agree with other posters -- HMO is quite QUITE disappointing. There are several little shortcomings -- here are the BIG ones (IMHO):

MUSIC:
- no organizing/navigating by ID3
- no way to queue up selections to play
- no way to randomly play entire collection

TiVo HMO is an ineffective way to play music IMHO. Basically you have to be sitting there with your hand on the remote every time a song, folder or playlist ends or else the music stops. If your friends are over, you can't say to one of them, "you pick the next song." If you wanna do some chores around the house you can't queue up two or three albums or a bunch of songs to play, or even your whole collection. Pretty soon whatever song or album you played stops and you have to run over and "bloop" around to pick the next thing. If you want an album to play in order you have to name the files just right.

You cannot find a media jukebox on the market today that is lacking these basic features -- only TiVo HMO. Disappointing.

REMOTE SCHEDULING
- can't customize channel lineup (large % of results are irrelevant)
- results limit of 250 (prevents browsing by category)
- no feasible way to browse channels (no 'back' and 'next' controls)
- no wishlists
- ratings are missing

This is the biggest disappointment. The scheduling features are so so so much better on the machine; online is really not worth it. Online scheduling is only worth it if you know a certain show you want to schedule. I guess I expected this to be like 75% of the machine's features, but it's only about 25%.

PHOTO:
- not support for 802.11g networking (large files download too slow)
- 2 clicks to go from thumbnail to full screen

Photo module is generally okay, but it's a little awkward to navigate due to extra unnecessary clicks. I have a lot of TIFFs so download on wireless are slowwwwwww

I do not use the networked TiVo sharing thing.

IN CONCLUSION:

I paid $49 for it, so I can't complain too much. But in my judgment, this is a gee-whiz add-on, not really a very useful product. I got it recently, so I can't complain yet about no upgrades. Hopefully TiVo will at some point make this into a useful product, instead of just milking it.

Tim

Last edited by timtas on 05-07-2004 at 03:03 AM

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Georgia Guy is offline Old Post 05-07-2004 11:16 PM
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Georgia Guy
Early Adapter

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 244

Re: HMO Disappointing

quote:
Originally posted by timtas
I agree with other posters -- HMO is quite QUITE disappointing. There are several little shortcomings -- here are the BIG ones (IMHO):

MUSIC:
- no way to queue up selections to play
- no way to randomly play entire collection

Tim



You CAN randomly play the entire collection...I do it all the time.

Have all your music folders on your computer inside one big "music" folder.
Inside that one big folder (with all the subfolders in it) place ONE mp3 file.
When you call up the "music" folder on the Tivo, select that one song, (not any of the other music subfolders), select its "options", select "shuffle", then select "include subfolders", then play the one song (or whatever mp3 you have placed there). It will play that song, then randomly play songs from the whole collection.
BTW, up at the top of the tv screen listing of the "now-playing" song, it will say, for instance, playing "1 of 2500", or however many songs are in your big "music" folder.


Only way to queue songs that I have found is to use WinAmp (or other programs) to make various playlists. I have a "playlist" folder in my HMO published folders, that has numerous playlists that I've sorted various ways. Select a playlist and play away.

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Tivo S2, 255 hours
Tivo S2, 132 hours
Sony SVR-2000, 135 hours
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Georgia Guy is offline Old Post 05-07-2004 11:34 PM
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Georgia Guy
Early Adapter

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 244

quote:
Originally posted by dugbug
How does the HMO work? Not really interested in photos or MP3 streaming.

Im interested primarily in remote viewing. Can one TIVO access shows recorded on the other? If it requires a manual copy of the file, is it done so as not to disturb the remote tivo? Ie: if I move a movie over, are both tivos in a wait-til-completed mode?



No, there is not a "wait-til-completed mode" per say. Both Tivos involved in the transfer will continue to operate....recording other shows, or watching recorded shows, or watching live shows.

Only thing it won't do is let you do is start transferring a show from unit 2, while unit 2 is still recording that show.

Any or all Tivos in the hmo network can be recording another show while the transfer takes place. Any or all can be watching previously recorded shows.

Hope that was what you were asking.

__________________
Tivo S2, 80 hours
Tivo S2, 255 hours
Tivo S2, 132 hours
Sony SVR-2000, 135 hours
3 Linksys USB200M's, Wired Ethernet
Comcast Motorola DCT6208 HD-DVR
Pan. DMR-HS2 DVD Recorder
Mits.HD2000U D-VHS Recorder

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timtas is offline Old Post 05-08-2004 06:12 AM
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timtas
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Registered: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 2

Re: Re: HMO Disappointing

quote:
Originally posted by Georgia Guy
You CAN randomly play the entire collection...I do it all the time.


Thanks Georgia Guy. I had not thought of that! I will do that pronto!

P.S. Atlanta's my home town. Smart peeps there!

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psc_Tivo_addict is offline Old Post 05-12-2004 11:25 PM
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psc_Tivo_addict
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HMO Too expensive

With the increased competition in the DVR arena, i.e. cable companies and computer companies and the general technology convergence. I think Tivo will have to offer the HMO free to ad value to the service and help them compete. Don't get me wrong I love my Tivo's, But considering I pay Almost $30 a month just for the programming, and Time Warner offers a DVR for only 8.95 a month.
Yes I agree it's not as good as a Tivo. But I have to tell you considering there is no hardware investment. It's good enough and like any other technologies it will improve. Certainly Tivo must know this. I certainly think the home media option is worth something but certainly not $148.00 for 2 Tivos. I would consider either a $79.00 per household fee, or and addition $2 per month per Tivo. But in the end it's all about adding value. It should be free for people owning more than one Tivo.

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eschmith is offline Old Post 05-22-2004 02:09 AM
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eschmith
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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Bellingham, MA
Posts: 36

Re: HMO Disappointing

I agree 100%. Tivo has had it's share of problems in the past, and one thing they continue to have difficulty with (IMHO) is their software interface - for HMO in this case, but my comments apply to the general UI too. The stuff they release looks "good" on a TV screen, but navigation is cumbersome, system response dreadfully slow, and they always miss major features.

In this day and age, I expect that if I purchase a software based product, that it will be as good as competing products, and also give me bug fixes and needed improvents on a timely basis. I've given Tivo (officially, to their customer support) many comments on suggestions\issues, and they either a) go into a black hole, or b) I get some response indicating they know it's a problem and to not try to do the thing that's not working. A great example - I recently wanted to try using Remote scheduling on HMO to set up a recording of a DirecTV pay per view channel. I was ticked to find that those channels are not even listed in the selections on the HMO web site, and that I couldn't even select the channel\time manually - something that one has been able to to with Tivo directly for years.

Sometimes I get so frustrated that I come in here out of deperation to look for some workaround or hack, but I really don't want to screw with them.

I know there are many on these forums who are very happy to spend time looking up 3rd party toolkits to get around many of the Tivo's shortcomings, but I and many others (the population in general) don't want the hassle.

What Tivo needs to is to get on the ball to add badly needed fixes, improvements, and features to it's software, both HMO and the main stuff. They should go out and look at all of the hardware and software based PVR systems, and make sure they are offering better than what's out there, if they want to maintain a rep as the leader in their business.

And yes, I know some competent Tivo folk are on these boards, but I shouldn't have to come in here to get some sort of response or mindshare from Tivo. Also, with all of the participation and expertise in the Tivo people here, I see don't see the whole Tivo software development approach changing.

ps - I have three hundred or more folders in my MP3 collection - one for every CD - and I get tons of time outs, even with a large cache on my computer. It's pathetic, and is an example of a BASIC core feature of the product that does not work properly, and even months after release, has not been improved.

pps - jeez, come on - the HMO does not even offer basic stuff like displaying album art or looking up info on tracks\artists that almost all MP3 players have now.

quote:
Originally posted by timtas
I agree with other posters -- HMO is quite QUITE disappointing. There are several little shortcomings -- here are the BIG ones (IMHO):

MUSIC:
- no organizing/navigating by ID3
- no way to queue up selections to play
- no way to randomly play entire collection

TiVo HMO is an ineffective way to play music IMHO. Basically you have to be sitting there with your hand on the remote every time a song, folder or playlist ends or else the music stops. If your friends are over, you can't say to one of them, "you pick the next song." If you wanna do some chores around the house you can't queue up two or three albums or a bunch of songs to play, or even your whole collection. Pretty soon whatever song or album you played stops and you have to run over and "bloop" around to pick the next thing. If you want an album to play in order you have to name the files just right.

You cannot find a media jukebox on the market today that is lacking these basic features -- only TiVo HMO. Disappointing.

REMOTE SCHEDULING
- can't customize channel lineup (large % of results are irrelevant)
- results limit of 250 (prevents browsing by category)
- no feasible way to browse channels (no 'back' and 'next' controls)
- no wishlists
- ratings are missing

This is the biggest disappointment. The scheduling features are so so so much better on the machine; online is really not worth it. Online scheduling is only worth it if you know a certain show you want to schedule. I guess I expected this to be like 75% of the machine's features, but it's only about 25%.

PHOTO:
- not support for 802.11g networking (large files download too slow)
- 2 clicks to go from thumbnail to full screen

Photo module is generally okay, but it's a little awkward to navigate due to extra unnecessary clicks. I have a lot of TIFFs so download on wireless are slowwwwwww

I do not use the networked TiVo sharing thing.

IN CONCLUSION:

I paid $49 for it, so I can't complain too much. But in my judgment, this is a gee-whiz add-on, not really a very useful product. I got it recently, so I can't complain yet about no upgrades. Hopefully TiVo will at some point make this into a useful product, instead of just milking it.

Tim

__________________
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Series 2 Tivo 60 Hour

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Georgia Guy is offline Old Post 05-22-2004 02:55 AM
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Georgia Guy
Early Adapter

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 244

Re: Re: HMO Disappointing

quote:
Originally posted by eschmith
ps - I have three hundred or more folders in my MP3 collection - one for every CD - and I get tons of time outs, even with a large cache on my computer. It's pathetic, and is an example of a BASIC core feature of the product that does not work properly, and even months after release, has not been improved.

pps - jeez, come on - the HMO does not even offer basic stuff like displaying album art or looking up info on tracks\artists that almost all MP3 players have now.



Perhaps Tivo should make it a little more clear that using HMO on a wireless system won't really cut it. I also have several hundred cd folders, but NEVER have I had a timeout... because my setup is wired, I think.

Since I use a MITS rptv, I really am not interested in having album art, although it would be nice, I admit. I really don't want my tv showing some sort of continous image on my screen (burn-in...but thats another peeve).
Would be a cool thing for the few minutes that I actually use my tv when playing music throughout my house, using HMO. After starting the music I generally turn off the tv, and let the stereo take over.

What pc jukebox software do you use that shows the album art on your tv? Just curious. Or what other superior software product are you comparing the Tivo hmo to? I've tried several (Prismiq, for one), and HMO puts it to shame. I would really be interested in taking a look at an MP3 player that let me play stuff throughout my house, with a menu on my tv screen. No kidding. I would take a look at any superior product.

As far as your problem with using the scheduler, I can't address that, because its something that I have no use for. Transferring shows to my various tivos and the music playing are my only real uses for HMO.

I've never seen any better UI than Tivo for the recording of tv programs, but I'm always ready for improvements. Let me know if there is something better. Thanks.

__________________
Tivo S2, 80 hours
Tivo S2, 255 hours
Tivo S2, 132 hours
Sony SVR-2000, 135 hours
3 Linksys USB200M's, Wired Ethernet
Comcast Motorola DCT6208 HD-DVR
Pan. DMR-HS2 DVD Recorder
Mits.HD2000U D-VHS Recorder

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skanter is offline Old Post 05-22-2004 03:00 AM
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skanter
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Registered: May 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 2241

Re: Re: Re: HMO Disappointing

quote:
Originally posted by Georgia Guy
Perhaps Tivo should make it a little more clear that using HMO on a wireless system won't really cut it. I also have several hundred cd folders, but NEVER have I had a timeout... because my setup is wired, I think.




Yeah, I think that's it. I have a wired network and have never had a timeout.

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TiVoBill is offline Old Post 05-22-2004 03:20 AM
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TiVoBill
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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Alviso, CA
Posts: 888

Re: Re: Re: Re: HMO Disappointing

quote:
Originally posted by skanter
Yeah, I think that's it. I have a wired network and have never had a timeout.


I've been using HMO on my wireless home network for over a year and it never times out either. It all depends on the quality of your wireless connection, distance, obstructions, interference, etc. I live in San Francisco so my flat isn't that big, but I havn't had any issues at all (and I've been using it since Alpha testing stage).

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Bobby Soprano is offline Old Post 05-22-2004 10:22 AM
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Bobby Soprano
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I don't get a timeout ... but if I try to click on a directory (from within TIVO) with a good deal of files in it (music or photos) ... it crashes my computer. I'm also on a wireless network, and show a *very good* signal strength.

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morac is offline Old Post 05-22-2004 03:36 PM
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morac
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I'm using "wireless" by using a wired USB adaptor, but it's plugged into a switch which is plugged into a wireless 802.11b bridge and I very rarely if ever see timeouts with TiVo's desktop software. I have seen timeouts on occasion with javahmo, but I think it's because sun java runs kind of slow on my machine.

If I do see problems, it's usually do to interference (ie: the Microwave or the neighbors) in which case I change channels on my wireless router and all is well.

I did see server errors when I first started using the TiVo Desktop software, but disabling access control on the TiVo Server got rid of those.

For streaming music and pictures even 802.11b which averages around 3-4 mbps is more than enough. It's faster than most broadband internet access.

To put it in perspective, I have a Playstation 2 hooked into the same switch as the TiVo and I've streamed movies to it using the Gameshark Media Player.

__________________
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