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Morg111 is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:16 AM
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Morg111
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YUMMY! Where's mine?

EDIT....

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MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE!

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leesweet is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:18 AM
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leesweet
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quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
Question, not sure where it belongs...

Which is more beneficial, recording SD content from locals provided by DirecTV, or from an OTA digital channel?

I'd assume one consumes less space...which one would be more efficient?


SD is much 'smaller' but, if you want HD...! Only OTA you can record on this machine is HD. Define 'beneficial'.

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josejrp is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
Question, not sure where it belongs...

Which is more beneficial, recording SD content from locals provided by DirecTV, or from an OTA digital channel?

I'd assume one consumes less space...which one would be more efficient?

This popped in my mind a few weeks ago, but seeing the grid with channels 2, 2-1, etc reminded me...

Craig



When you record the OTA HD channels, you are recording their feed, which is usually 1080i (or 720p if an ABC affiliate). This feed is the same even if they are broadcasting SD material (they upconvert it to the HD resolution). Since the source is not HD, the upconversion does not have the HD picture quality, but does look better than any DirecTV SD channel. However, since in effect you are always recording HD signals in these channels, the recordings will take significantly more space than the SD channels even when viewing SD programs. To make things even fuzzier, the DirecTV HD channels are compressed and do not have the overhead required for OTA HD, so their programs will take less space than the OTA HD channels.

Hope I was clear enough ,

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Marco is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:25 AM
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Marco
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quote:
Originally posted by josejrp
Let me wipe this pool of drool from my keyboard... mmmmmmm, HD TiVo....


You need one of these:

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Will-san is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:28 AM
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I am one of those.

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Toeside is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:28 AM
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Toeside
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Lee/Jose,

I think I understand... Let's use Friends as an example. It's not an HD show, but it'll sure be on my 5-1 digital NBC OTA local. So, if I record Friends from 5-1 OTA, I'll be getting a non-HD show that's been upconverted to 1080i via the broadcast affiliate?

So that "airing" of Friends will look better than recording the same episode on "5" that is from the DirecTV satellite?

Hmm, not sure which is beneficial now. I want to conserve space for true HD shows (Law & Orders, CSIs, Without a Trace, Joan of Arcadia, etc)... So I guess the non-HD shows will be recorded via DirecTV locals...and probably on my old DirecTiVo...

Craig

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josejrp is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:29 AM
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So, how loose was the HDMI cable?

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Bryan Lyle is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:35 AM
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Bryan Lyle
Tivo'n since 1999

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quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
Lee/Jose,

I think I understand... Let's use Friends as an example. It's not an HD show, but it'll sure be on my 5-1 digital NBC OTA local. So, if I record Friends from 5-1 OTA, I'll be getting a non-HD show that's been upconverted to 1080i via the broadcast affiliate?

So that "airing" of Friends will look better than recording the same episode on "5" that is from the DirecTV satellite?

Hmm, not sure which is beneficial now. I want to conserve space for true HD shows (Law & Orders, CSIs, Without a Trace, Joan of Arcadia, etc)... So I guess the non-HD shows will be recorded via DirecTV locals...and probably on my old DirecTiVo...

Craig



That episode of Friends on 5-1 will take up as much space as if it were broadcast in HDTV. It will look much better than the SD version on channel 5. But it will take up 1/60th of your HD Tivo's capacity

At least I "think" it would...

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josejrp is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:37 AM
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josejrp
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quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
Lee/Jose,

I think I understand... Let's use Friends as an example. It's not an HD show, but it'll sure be on my 5-1 digital NBC OTA local. So, if I record Friends from 5-1 OTA, I'll be getting a non-HD show that's been upconverted to 1080i via the broadcast affiliate?

So that "airing" of Friends will look better than recording the same episode on "5" that is from the DirecTV satellite?

Hmm, not sure which is beneficial now. I want to conserve space for true HD shows (Law & Orders, CSIs, Without a Trace, Joan of Arcadia, etc)... So I guess the non-HD shows will be recorded via DirecTV locals...and probably on my old DirecTiVo...

Craig



You got it. The broadcast upconverters do a much better job than any upconverter available to us, plus the DirecTV compression is worse on the SD locals than on any other channels (and I swear, they must be receiving a couple of locals with a coathanger... for example, my NBC local has some herringbone lines sometimes, and my TBS local has ghosting). Of course, the smaller the TV, the more likely you may not notice the D* SD lack of quality.

So, the answer is, if the D* SD feeds look o.k. to you, then they are the ones to record. However, the OTA HD SD material should look better (but you may not notice it depending on your TV).

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aaron.s is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:37 AM
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aaron.s
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Alexander,

Actually - the beauty in it is that it looks and functions *JUST LIKE* the existing Tivo's. This means that much of the original software is still there.

Yes - it also means the same screens and grids -- but since that "code" is pretty much rock solid -- it prevents more complication and bugs from creeping in.

And all of you out there the Significant Others that (might) be worried about a "new" learning curve -- there is NONE -- the unit works and feels just like a regular Tivo -- which is GOOD.

Aaron


quote:
Originally posted by Alexander
Well, that was....boring. The White Castles got me more excited, until I remembered that I can only get the frozen kind.

Kind of sad that they didn't take the opportunity to make a super-spiffy HD interface.

Oh well, at least it appears eminently functional, which is all that really matters, I suppose.

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MOTOMATT is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:38 AM
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MOTOMATT
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How will i know what is upconverted to 1080i via the broadcast affiliate?

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aaron.s is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:41 AM
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aaron.s
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bpdp379 -

As far as *I* know -- there is no conversion from HDMI to DVI. HDMI (the video portion) is electrically the same as DVI -- HDMI only introduces a smaller connector and the ability to pass digital audio over the cable as well.

The HDMI to DVI cable used to connect to the TV is just cable -- no circuits or chips to convert the digital video at all....

Aaron


quote:
Originally posted by bpdp379
In that case, did it seem like either whites or blacks were getting clipped/crushed?

I mean per the supposed "bug" being reported elsewhere about the HDMI to DVI conversion...

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leesweet is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:41 AM
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leesweet
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 1182

quote:
Originally posted by josejrp
So, the answer is, if the D* SD feeds look o.k. to you, then they are the ones to record. However, the OTA HD SD material should look better (but you may not notice it depending on your TV).

Yep, take a look at both, and record what you want. For things that you are going to timeshift and dump, D*'s channel is probably okay. If you want to keep it for a bit, up to you.

It depends if you have other SD PVRs, also! Many here have (many) other SD TiVos. Some don't. This is my first TiVo, but I have a ton of other PVR capacity, so this is strictly for HD material. Problem there, it's only 30 hours. Can't wait for details on upgrading... even adding an *extra* *300* GB drive only adds 30 hours or so of HD space... <sigh>!

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Lee

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leesweet is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:43 AM
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leesweet
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 1182

quote:
Originally posted by MOTOMATT
How will i know what is upconverted to 1080i via the broadcast affiliate?

You can check in the HD TiVo to see what your HD station broadcasts at. Some at 1080i, some are 720p. If they are sending HD and are doing commercials, for example, it's being upconverted, if you see what I mean. (Same for other SD material.) (This is somewhat messing up this demo question thread... )

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Toeside is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:43 AM
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Toeside
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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 476

quote:
Originally posted by josejrp
You got it. The broadcast upconverters do a much better job than any upconverter available to us, plus the DirecTV compression is worse on the SD locals than on any other channels (and I swear, they must be receiving a couple of locals with a coathanger... for example, my NBC local has some herringbone lines sometimes, and my TBS local has ghosting). Of course, the smaller the TV, the more likely you may not notice the D* SD lack of quality.

So, the answer is, if the D* SD feeds look o.k. to you, then they are the ones to record. However, the OTA HD SD material should look better (but you may not notice it depending on your TV).



So the next Question... Is the scaler built into the HD Tivo better or worse than what's in my Mitsubishi 55413? If I record Friends from DirecTV's NBC local on the HD Tivo and the SD Tivo, which will look better?

I'm going crazy here speculating. I have nothing better to do (HD and Tivo related, but I have TONS of other things I SHOULD be doing).

I'm going to have my Philips DSR6000 and the HD Tivo both connected to the Mits 55413... just gotta figure out which one should have the SD Season Passes. My first instinct was that anything NOT HD would go on the old box... That's probably going to be the way I go...

__________________
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Philips DSR6000r x2
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Harmony H680
Mits WS-55413
Mits DD-8040 with DCDi

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aaron.s is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:43 AM
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aaron.s
Technocub

Registered: Sep 2002
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josejrp -

The HDMI to DVI cable used was the one that came with Robert's unit -- so all *I* can say is that it was snug as a bug in a rug....

Aaron

quote:
Originally posted by josejrp
So, how loose was the HDMI cable?

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dswallow is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:44 AM
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dswallow
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quote:
Originally posted by aaron.s
Actually - the beauty in it is that it looks and functions *JUST LIKE* the existing Tivo's. This means that much of the original software is still there.

Yes - it also means the same screens and grids -- but since that "code" is pretty much rock solid -- it prevents more complication and bugs from creeping in.

And all of you out there the Significant Others that (might) be worried about a "new" learning curve -- there is NONE -- the unit works and feels just like a regular Tivo -- which is GOOD.

It's so much like the old code, it even still has the bug wherein a couple (as I recall, or at least one evidenced by the photo) screens draw the menu further to the right of the left edge of the screen than most other menus such that as shown here, you see a gap in the bar behind the menu option.

http://www.2150.com/directv/instore...64B8B05&f=y&p=2

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aaron.s is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:45 AM
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aaron.s
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Toeside -

From what I could see - I was generally pretty happy with the performance of the scaler in the HD Tivo.... but I was VERY CLOSE to the 60" set and personally am a better judge of this when watching on my own 60" Grand Wega II from 12 feet away.... but I think people will be fairly happy with its performance....

Aaron

quote:
Originally posted by Toeside
So the next Question... Is the scaler built into the HD Tivo better or worse than what's in my Mitsubishi 55413? If I record Friends from DirecTV's NBC local on the HD Tivo and the SD Tivo, which will look better?

I'm going crazy here speculating. I have nothing better to do (HD and Tivo related, but I have TONS of other things I SHOULD be doing).

I'm going to have my Philips DSR6000 and the HD Tivo both connected to the Mits 55413... just gotta figure out which one should have the SD Season Passes. My first instinct was that anything NOT HD would go on the old box... That's probably going to be the way I go...

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leesweet is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:46 AM
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leesweet
TiVo Forum Special Member

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Northern VA, USA
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On the scaler issue, the TiVo doesn't have native (passthrough), so what the consensus was to do was set it to the same as your display, unless you want to change it depending on the station you are tuned to every time. You can try both, but most modern receivers, the scaler's pretty good. For my Sony 300, I let it do it, over my Samsung DLP. Can't tell the difference.

(If you don't set it to the display's native setting (for a digital display), then it's being converted/scaled twice; not a good thing!)

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Toeside is offline Old Post 04-15-2004 02:49 AM
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Toeside
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quote:
Originally posted by leesweet
... this is strictly for HD material. Problem there, it's only 30 hours. Can't wait for details on upgrading... even adding an *extra* *300* GB drive only adds 30 hours or so of HD space... <sigh>!


I actually have two DSR6000, usually refered to as Series 1 DTiVos. One is in the custody of my sister-in-law, so we'll pretend that doesn't exist. I originally intended all HD content will go to the HD Tivo, and all other content to the Philips...even contemplated upgrading that, not sure now.

I wonder how long it will take me to open up the HD TiVo and upgrade it. I wonder how long it will take my wife to smack me upside the head for opening such an expensive box... or spending more money on such an expensive box...

Reminds me of a story a friend told me... he bought a Pronto and it came with a free case that shipped seperately. When the case arrived, his wife said, "not only do you need an expensive remote, but now you are buying clothes for it?".

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